Participants: Yvonne Lewis (Host), Raymond King
Series Code: UBR
Program Code: UBR000009
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00:01 There is an underground culture that is sweeping through
00:03 American Society... and don't think that it doesn't 00:06 affect the Body of Christ... it's called the "Down Low" 00:09 and it's more prevalent than you may think... 00:12 Stay tuned to find out more about it 00:14 and other relevant issues... 00:16 My name is Yvonne Lewis and you're watching 00:18 Urban Report... 00:41 Hello and welcome to Urban Report... 00:44 my guest today is Raymond King 00:46 Author and Co-Founder of Securing Hope Ministry... 00:50 Welcome Brother Raymond... 00:51 Thank you for having me on today... 00:54 Oh it's great for you to be with us... 00:56 we're so happy that you're here... 01:00 This phenomenon of the "Down Low" 01:04 what exactly is it? 01:05 The Down Low is a term that we have 01:08 in the African American Community 01:11 and it really references individuals 01:14 male and female who pretend to be heterosexual 01:18 but they're really involved with same-gender sexual activity 01:24 I tell people... it's the 01:27 ultimate 01:28 form of betrayal because... in many instances, 01:32 let's take a husband who is married... 01:35 has a family... he portrays himself 01:39 as being a man of God... heterosexual, loving, caring 01:44 protective of his family... 01:45 but yet... he's secretly rendezvousing with other males 01:51 for sexual gratification... I must say selfish, ungodly, 01:56 sexual gratification... and it is such an issue 02:00 because according to statistics African American females 02:04 have the highest rate of HIV infection... 02:08 and they say that one of the reasons 02:10 that this is the reality is because 02:13 they are involved with men again... 02:15 who are on the Down Low 02:17 but what we have found out contrary to popular belief, 02:21 that it's not only men who are on the Down Low, 02:24 again... in the Body of Christ, but the females 02:27 who also are on the Down Low, these are mothers, 02:30 these are significant others who portray themselves 02:33 to be heterosexual... but yet... 02:35 they are secretly again... involved with 02:38 same-gender relationships 02:40 as well... so, you're telling us... 02:44 that... this is, first of all, not just specifically 02:47 a male phenomenon... this is now... 02:49 involving more and more women as well... 02:52 and Number Two... you're telling us that 02:55 and this is an issue of grave concern... 02:57 that there are so many African American Women... 03:00 that are dying from HIV... and this is often 03:05 brought into the relationship via a Down Low relationship 03:10 that's going on with the husband... 03:12 is that correct? Exactly... exactly... 03:15 it's real devious... it's really serious... 03:19 because they call it Down Low for a reason... 03:22 these individuals are so secretive... 03:26 in their personal sexual activity 03:29 that it's hard... for anyone to pick up on it... 03:33 Hmmm... it is a phenomenon that 03:37 is adversely affecting both genders... 03:41 but specifically... or should I say in general... 03:44 it's also adversely affecting the Body of Christ... 03:47 Now, why should we... 03:49 as the body of Christ... 03:51 be concerned about this... I mean... really... 03:53 is this something that 03:55 has anything to do with us as Christians? 03:58 Why should we care about this? 03:59 Well, I believe that obviously all sin originates 04:05 from the enemy... and when you start 04:08 looking at the Down-Low culture, I've written a book 04:14 that deals with this... you understand that 04:17 the more deviant... or the more 04:19 deceptive it is... the more I believe 04:21 it is being used by Satan as a tool... 04:24 and so the reason the Body of Christ 04:26 needs to be aware of this is because 04:28 God did not want His people to be ignorant 04:30 as a matter of fact... God states in His Word 04:33 "My people are destroyed for the lack of knowledge... " 04:36 Hmmm... yes... so, I ask people... 04:39 if God is warning us... He is saying to us... 04:42 "Don't be ignorant... " Hmmm... hmmm... 04:44 "gain knowledge... gain wisdom... " 04:46 what would happen if we know what's going on 04:49 if we know how Satan is attacking... 04:52 then I believe that we could not only confront him... 04:57 but... it is... a lot of individuals 05:00 in this culture... are in it... 05:03 because of childhood trauma in the form of 05:06 childhood sexual molestation, and a lot of individuals 05:11 really want freedom from this hellish bondage 05:14 or this hellish addiction, and the Church is the only one 05:17 that can provide that type of freedom 05:20 or deliverance... and so... you ask, 05:22 "Why is it so important to the Church?" 05:25 It's important on two different areas... 05:28 Number One... we must provide a means 05:30 of warning and educating our people 05:33 so they know what to stand against... 05:35 Hmmm... at the same time 05:36 we also must make ourselves 05:38 the instrument of restoration 05:40 and deliverance that God has already 05:42 enabled and requires... 05:44 Yes, and I think that that is so important... 05:46 for our viewers to know and particularly 05:50 our viewers that are caught up in that bondage 05:53 because indeed it is that... it is bondage... 05:55 any sin... that has you driven 05:58 that you are controlled by, well, sin period... 06:02 is bondage... Yes... 06:04 and so... we as a Church, have to be a place 06:08 of restoration... a place of deliverance 06:11 to show that there is deliverance 06:13 from that bondage... Yes... 06:15 and so... I think it's critical 06:17 for us.. to not put 06:18 our heads in the sand 06:19 and act as though these things don't exist 06:21 in the Church... because they do... 06:23 and that's why we have you here... 06:25 It is Satan's desire 06:28 that we ignore this reality 06:31 because... by doing so... 06:33 we give him free rein 06:35 to continue to kill, steal and to destroy... 06:38 Hmmm... I tell individuals... 06:42 any form of sin... if allowed to maintain itself 06:46 in the Body of Christ is malignant... 06:50 You know... the Scriptures... Paul said in Corinthians to 06:55 that Church... "that a little leaven 06:58 would leaven the entire lump... " 06:59 Yes... hmmm... hmmm... hmmm... 07:01 that's pretty significant because... 07:03 know when he says... "a little leaven" 07:05 not a whole bunch... he said 07:07 it would leaven the entire lump... 07:09 Hmmm... hmmm... 07:10 and so, I tell people, we can't afford... 07:14 to allow any form of sin... to maintain itself 07:18 to take root within the Body of Christ 07:21 because... if we all... and it has... 07:24 and it is... adversely affecting us all... 07:27 and I'll give an example... 07:30 one of the main problems 07:32 in the Body of Christ is sexual immorality period... 07:35 it's not just homosexual... it's not just Down Low... 07:37 it's just embracing... 07:39 what I call it... a counterfeit sexuality 07:42 let's say you have individuals 07:45 who are sexually active... male and female... 07:48 but individuals who are on the Down Low... 07:50 may present themselves 07:53 again as being heterosexually inclined 07:57 Hmmm... hmmm... and so, they are 07:59 committing fornication with females and males 08:02 however, the females who are 08:06 "straight" 08:07 but they're still committing fornication... 08:10 are now... spreading the disease 08:15 both physically and spiritually to the other men... 08:19 that they are fornicating with... 08:21 and so... the Down-Low Brother would not only 08:24 adversely affect the female... the Down-Low Brother 08:26 would also the other male that she may be fornicating with 08:32 and as I said before it's not just the males... 08:35 I think people will be surprised 08:38 how many females are involved 08:41 in secretive sexual liaisons with other females... 08:46 but present themselves to be heterosexual 08:48 within the Body of Christ... 08:49 and one reason 08:53 this is so prevalent 08:55 on the female side of the equation 08:57 is because... a lot of females now 09:00 don't trust males... Hmmm... 09:02 there are... a number of books 09:05 that have been written about females who are married 09:09 or who are involved with a male who they found out 09:12 to be on the Down Low... females who have contracted 09:16 HIV... females who died from that... 09:19 and so... they look at... 09:22 a lot of females look at males 09:24 suspect because they don't have any idea 09:28 if the male they are being attracted to... 09:31 is on the Down Low... Hmmm... 09:33 and again... I tell people... you cannot tell... 09:35 that's why they call it... the Down Low... 09:37 Right... right... right... absolutely... 09:40 You know... one of the things that you said 09:43 that's so important and that is... 09:46 there's just a whole plethora... 09:49 of sexual sin... in the Church... 09:52 it's not that we are just focusing 09:54 on homosexuality 09:56 or bi-sexuality... fornication... you know... 09:59 adultery... all of these things, pedophilia... 10:02 all these things... have crept into the Church 10:05 and we're just... sometimes... 10:08 we're just burying our head in the sand 10:10 acting like this is just not important... 10:13 but yet... it's taking root in the Church... 10:17 and that's one of the things 10:18 that is of such distress to me as a Christian... 10:22 I see what's going on with this whole agenda... 10:26 as I watch television... I see... 10:29 there's this whole agenda that's pushing... 10:32 that's promoting... fornication, adultery, 10:35 homosexuality, bi-sexuality, and it's as though 10:40 we are just becoming desensitized to it... 10:43 what do you see... as the agenda 10:47 that's taking place... in our Society... 10:50 or is there an agenda? 10:52 Big time... and I tell people 10:55 the Bible declares "that we wrestle not against 10:58 flesh and blood... but against spiritual powers, 11:01 wickedness... " there's a spiritual warfare... 11:04 Yes... I tell people that the agenda 11:07 is really demonic... Yes... 11:08 and I'm going to go to the 6th Chapter of Corinthians 11:14 and I have been led to believe in reading Paul's writings 11:20 where he says... that all men have sinned... 11:23 it's done outside the body... Hmmm... 11:25 and I ask people... 11:27 when he says "all" what does that mean? 11:28 It means... without exception... Hmmm... hmmm... 11:30 but it says... it means in the exception... 11:33 fornication is done against the body... 11:36 Come on now... and so, the revelation that 11:38 I received from that is... God was working through Paul 11:42 to establish or put sin... 11:43 into two distinct categories... Hmmm... hmmm... 11:46 Non-sexual... done outside the body 11:48 and sexual... that's done against the body... 11:51 and so... whatever type of sin we commit... 11:53 it's going to be either sexual or non-sexual... 11:56 and so I ask people... if that's the case... 11:58 and if you are Satan... 12:00 you want to attack the body of Christ... 12:03 which category of sin would you focus on... 12:06 and obviously it had to be that sin 12:07 that's done... against the body and so... 12:09 in answer to your question... 12:11 I submit that... it is an agenda... 12:13 the agenda is... Satan who is mad 12:16 with the remnant of the seed of the woman... 12:18 he is launching war against the woman 12:23 but he's using sexuality... and he knows that 12:27 if he can infiltrate... if he can contaminate... 12:32 it he can leaven... the Church... 12:34 to embrace... again the counterfeit... 12:36 then what happens is... he slowly but surely destroys 12:41 the fabric or the fundamental component of the Church 12:45 and of the facade... and that's the family... 12:47 our families are in trouble... Yes... yes... 12:49 especially in the Black Community 12:51 you know better than I do that 70 percent 12:53 of all the homes in Black America... 12:55 only have one parent... Yes... 12:57 and if you really were to evaluate that... 13:02 you'll find that that most of it... 13:05 leads to sexual immorality, I submit that 13:09 that's the agenda... 13:10 Satan wants to destroy the Church... 13:12 by using sexuality... and we are assisting him... 13:17 because we fail to openly discuss... openly teach 13:21 and embrace... what I call... 13:23 Biblical sexuality... 13:24 Hmmm... and I want to get to that 13:26 in just a second 13:27 what is that concept of Biblical Sexuality... 13:30 of God's ideal for His people... but there's something... 13:34 there's a kind of theory that I have... 13:36 and I want to run it past you... 13:38 so many people think that sex is just a physical act... 13:43 but there is a physical dimension, 13:45 as well as a spiritual dimension... 13:48 and there's the whole physical thing that says that 13:52 when you sleep with someone... 13:54 you're sleeping with everybody that they've slept with 13:57 for the past 7 years... so... that means... 14:00 if you are a promiscuous person... 14:03 and you're sleeping with X, Y, Z... 14:05 or even one person... that slept with 14:08 50,000 people... 14:10 you're sleeping with everybody that they've slept with 14:12 for the past 7 years... 14:13 I believe that spiritually too, there's that same deal 14:17 that you are... there's this kind of 14:19 transferring of the spiritual plane as well, 14:23 and so, that's why, 14:25 we're not to join the Body of Christ 14:27 with the "harlot" so to speak, as Paul says, 14:30 because it's not just a physical thing... 14:33 it's also a spiritual 14:35 kind of transference 14:38 and so, we have to be so concerned about 14:41 what "spirits" are we taking in, and I think that 14:44 that's why... we're supposed to look at this 14:48 not just from a physiological place 14:50 but from a spiritual place as well... 14:52 would you concur with that? 14:54 Very much so... I reference what I call 14:58 people's "Sexual Tree" Hmmm... 15:00 sexual tree is in essence what you just mentioned... 15:05 I'll submit that... it goes even farther than 7 years 15:09 it goes to infinity... until God severs it... 15:12 see... I believe that sexuality is multi-dimensional 15:16 as you've mentioned... it's physical... 15:18 it's spiritual... it's emotional... 15:20 and it's mental... it is complete joining of 15:24 husband and wife... which is what God had intended 15:27 it's a bonding mechanism between those two individuals 15:30 and it's so complete... it's the only union 15:34 that God compares... between He and the Church... 15:38 And see... Satan would want to really mess that up... 15:42 because he is actually going... attacking... 15:44 the whole concept of 15:46 us being formed in the image of God... anyway... 15:49 so he wants to come up against that whole concept 15:52 and against the Church, which is represented 15:55 in Scripture as a woman... so he wants to come up 15:58 against that anyway... so he is going to 16:01 you can see... how... he would... 16:03 really try to attack the Church and attack us through 16:08 sexuality... and it's everywhere... 16:11 it's ubiquitous... let me kind of go back to the 16:15 Down-Low phenomenon for a minute 16:17 and ask you... what are the signs 16:20 of someone being on the Down Low... 16:22 what would you look for... 16:24 That's a good question... if you could determine that... 16:29 you have the right to turn Down Low... 16:34 wow... it is... some of the signs that are 16:39 obvious... is a lack of attention... 16:42 if either party... has been giving the other party 16:48 attention... especially in the 16:51 intimacy department... and all of a sudden... 16:54 it starts to wane... 16:55 if you have one or the other partner 16:59 becoming missing... for extended periods of time... 17:04 without any reasonable explanation... 17:07 I want to say that 17:11 they are real difficult 17:17 to determine because... everything is done by the 17:21 Down-Low partner to keep it "Down Low" 17:24 but what I will say is this... it's a lot harder 17:31 to detect it... than it is to prevent it... 17:35 and I submit that what we should do 17:38 in the Body of Christ... is again... 17:40 make this an issue that we discuss... 17:43 because as I said earlier... there are individuals 17:46 who are caught in this addiction that really want freedom... 17:51 Hmmm... but how many individuals 17:54 will you say... feel so comfortable 17:57 about the environment of the Church... 18:00 that they would stand up in a Prayer Meeting... 18:03 or at any gathering of the saints 18:05 and say, "Listen, Brothers and Sisters 18:07 I'm struggling with same-gender attraction... 18:10 I need you all to help me... " Forget about it... 18:12 Forget about it... 18:14 exactly... that's just not happening 18:15 it's so swept under the rug because 18:17 it's an area of such shame and secrecy... 18:21 and I think that that's one of the draws with it 18:24 the clandestine aura that it has... 18:28 that's one of the things that Satan uses 18:32 to keep it on the Down Low... it keeps it exciting 18:36 when it's clandestine... so, I mean, it's all part of 18:40 that whole plan that he has... to deceive... 18:45 Well, part of it is also the demons 18:49 of shame and guilt... and I submit that we 18:54 as the Body of Christ have to get to a point where... 18:58 we are able to hear anything... deal with anything... 19:02 and address anything... Hmmm... 19:04 because... that is the only time 19:06 that we are going to be what God had called us to be... 19:09 there are individuals that I've talked with 19:14 who have come out of the homosexual culture... 19:18 and they've made mention of the fact 19:22 that... if they had been approached 19:25 if they felt like the Church was willing 19:29 to help them without a spirit of condemnation... 19:32 they would have reached out a long time ago... 19:36 Hmmm... what I'm finding out 19:37 in the Body of Christ is... especially when it comes to 19:41 sexual issues... we are deficit in our success 19:49 in offering the deliverance because... 19:53 people would not get help if they don't ask for it... 19:58 people would not ask for it if they feel like, 20:00 "I'm going to be condemned... I'm going to be talked about... 20:04 I'm going to be ostracized... " 20:06 we need to change that paradigm... 20:08 because... if we start changing, if we start becoming 20:12 the spirit of change and restoration 20:16 that God has enabled us... I submit that... 20:19 that would be the best first step 20:21 in eliminating the Down-Low Syndrome 20:24 and every other sexual misconduct problem 20:28 we have in the Body of Christ... 20:29 it's not that we can't... it's that we won't... 20:33 Yes... yes... what is your... what is your interest 20:36 in all this... why have you taken it 20:39 upon yourself... to... kind of champion 20:42 this whole issue of sexuality in the Church? 20:44 That's a good question... God works in mysterious way... 20:49 and the way He called my wife and I... 20:55 into this ministry... was on the heels of us 20:59 meeting with young adults and teens in our home 21:03 every Friday night for about two-and-a-half years, 21:06 we discussed everything from doctrinal issues 21:11 to sexuality to dating... we also fed them food 21:15 as a matter-of-fact... I had a nickname... 21:17 I called them locusts... because once they came in 21:20 and left... there was nothing left... 21:21 They cleaned you out huh? 21:25 Toward the end of that blessing, the Holy Spirit 21:30 gave me the impression of going to them 21:33 and saying to them... "Now, you have been fed 21:36 for the past two-and-a-half years 21:37 now, it's time to get to work... " 21:39 So, you're getting ready to make sure that they 21:43 they've been fed... so now it's time 21:45 for them to get out there and feed others... right? 21:50 Exactly... but what I suggested that they do is... 21:54 do an abstinence program for the youth 21:57 that were younger than them, 21:59 and so, each person had their... 22:01 who wanted to participate, had a specific subject 22:05 that they would cover and because of 22:07 my medical background... I chose to cover STD... 22:11 and that is what really brought me into this 22:14 thing because as I did my research 22:16 I did not realize that it was 22:18 as bad as it was... 22:20 and to make the long story short... 22:22 that led me into writing my first book 22:26 and the book just exploded 22:28 my interest... and I tell people, 22:31 "When God calls you to a ministry... He equips you... 22:35 He gives you such a yearning and a desire to do it... " 22:40 and so, primarily... I believe that this is 22:44 what God's purpose is for myself and my wife... 22:47 and the more we study about this... 22:50 the more angrier we become, as a matter-of-fact... 22:53 in the book that I wrote, "Dealing with the Down Low" 22:56 I talk about my brother, unfortunately... 22:59 who was a preacher and he got sucked into that culture 23:04 and I found out that... 23:06 after his death... 23:08 he committed suicide... that he actually 23:10 was a victim of childhood sexual molestation as well... 23:14 My... and so there's a lot of 23:16 a lot of things that have happened... 23:18 but I do know... based upon 23:20 what I am gaining from this, this is where God 23:24 wants us to be... Amen... amen... now... 23:28 so what would you say then I'm wrapping this up... 23:31 what would you say... is God's ideal plan for us 23:34 in terms of sexuality... besides marriage obviously 23:37 but with all that's going on in Society now 23:41 what would you say to the viewer 23:43 about God's plan for us for our sexuality... 23:47 very simple... God says, 23:49 "Be ye holy... as I am holy... " 23:51 Hmmm... we should not try to 23:53 achieve anything else but holiness... 23:57 once we achieve holiness... everything... 24:00 everything that needs to be put in place... 24:03 will be put in place... 24:04 What's holiness to a person who's never... 24:07 who is unchurched? What is being holy? 24:10 What does that mean? 24:11 Being holy is... being like Christ... 24:15 the Bible says, "By beholding we become changed... " 24:17 when we learn of Christ, then, we are changed 24:22 just by the exposure to holiness... 24:25 Okay... I know that... 24:26 for the "unchurched" that may sound kind of... 24:29 strange... but the Bible says, 24:33 "Spiritual things are spirit discerned" 24:35 I'm convinced that Christ came to show us 24:38 God... through Himself... Hmmm... hmmm... 24:40 and if we can obtain the life that Christ lived 24:44 by learning of Christ... He said, 24:47 "Come unto me, all ye who are burdened and are heavy laden, 24:51 and I will give you rest... " Hmmm... hmmm... 24:53 He said, "Learn of me... " and I believe that 24:56 that's the key... if we can get more knowledge 24:58 of Jesus... and who He is, and what He is, 25:00 and what He's all about... then... everything else 25:03 that Satan has thrown at us will slowly be snuffed off... 25:08 Jesus is the answer... Jesus is the answer... 25:12 I mean... what more can we say? 25:14 Thank you... thank you so much Brother Raymond King 25:18 for being with us and letting us know 25:21 about this whole issue of the Down Low and sexuality 25:25 in the Church... and what we can do... really... 25:28 to... how we can address it... 25:31 and we can address it by being a place of restoration 25:36 and we can address it by by ourselves becoming more 25:40 like Christ so that so that we can share 25:42 Him with the world... 25:44 how can we share what we don't know? 25:45 so... we have to do that... 25:50 thank you again for being with us 25:52 Thank you for the opportunity... Absolutely... 25:55 If we would just really get into that Word... 26:01 and show love to everyone... 26:03 this Program is not about bashing the bi-sexual 26:08 or the homosexual... or the adulterer 26:11 or the fornicator... we're all sinners... 26:13 we're all sinners saved by grace and what your sin... 26:17 your sin might not be my sin... 26:19 but... whatever our sins are... we are sinners 26:25 in need of a Savior... and so... we can be thankful 26:29 that we have a Savior... we can be thankful 26:31 that we have a High Priest that we can go to 26:34 and say... "Lord, I've blown it... 26:37 I've messed up... but please forgive me 26:39 and then empower me... give me victory over this sin. " 26:42 This Program today was to show you that 26:45 victory is ours through Christ, no matter what the sin 26:49 no matter what you're dealing with... 26:51 we can have victory in Him... and so we can go to Him 26:55 because He's our High Priest... because... 26:58 there's nothing that He has not... 27:00 the Word says that we don't have a High Priest 27:05 that cannot be touched with the feeling 27:07 of our infirmities... but... we have a High Priest 27:11 that we can come to... because He'll show us grace 27:14 and mercy in time of need... so we can come to Him 27:18 and we can expect healing... 27:20 and we can expect forgiveness 27:22 "If we confess our sins... He is faithful and just 27:24 to forgive us of our sins, and to cleanse us 27:27 from all unrighteousness... " this information today 27:30 is so valuable and practical, we can't just 27:33 bury our heads in the sand... and act as if 27:35 this phenomenon doesn't exist... it does... 27:38 but the Lord would have us to be aware 27:40 of the wiles of the enemy and to know 27:42 that in Christ... there is victory... 27:45 there is nothing too great or too small 27:48 to bring to Him... He longs for intimacy with you 27:52 He longs for a relationship with you... 27:54 He longs to walk side by side with you... 27:57 so let Him and trust Him... 27:59 just give Him a try... 28:01 Thanks for watching Urban Report... 28:03 it just wouldn't be the same, without you... |
Revised 2015-04-30