Participants: Yvonne Lewis (Host), Terrie Williams
Series Code: UBR
Program Code: UBR000060S
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00:00 What would you do if you were so depressed
00:02 that you couldn't get out of bed... 00:04 Stay tuned to meet a mental health advocate 00:07 that, herself, overcame the grip of depression... 00:10 My name is Yvonne Lewis and you're watching Urban Report 00:35 Hello and welcome to Urban Report 00:37 my guest today is a friend that I met years ago 00:41 while in the entertainment industry 00:42 I recently ran into her at the National Action Network 00:46 Convention in New York and when I spoke to her 00:49 I knew that she had some vital points to share with our 00:52 Urban Report viewers... so let me just tell you 00:54 a little bit about her... She is one of Ebony magazine's 00:58 Power 150 for activism... Woman's Day magazine 01:02 hails her as one of 50 women on a mission to change the world 01:06 and she's a Black History Maker's Honoree 01:09 on the 2013 The Grio one hundred list 01:13 she's a mental health advocate author of several 01:16 acclaimed books and the Founder and President 01:20 of the Terrie Williams Agency 01:22 I'm pleased to welcome Terrie Williams to Urban Report. 01:25 Welcome Terrie... yeah... We made it... 01:30 I'm so happy to be with you... Oh, thank you... I am so happy 01:34 to have you here... and I know that 01:36 once our viewers hear what you have to say... 01:39 they are going to be so blessed 01:40 by the information that you share... 01:42 you know, when I met you Terrie and you know, 01:46 you and I have never really had like a lot of conversations 01:49 or anything but I watched your career from afar 01:52 and I saw that that you were this high-powered woman 01:56 you were representing Eddie Murphy and Miles Davis and 02:00 doing all of these great things but while that was happening 02:04 something else was happening with you... 02:07 Tell us about... your journey... 02:09 I was dying on the inside... 02:13 I was wearing my mask 02:16 which most of us do... we wear a mask everyday 02:19 and we are smiling and people say, "How are you doing?" 02:23 and we say, "Fine" and the reality is many of us are hiding 02:27 a multitude of issues, unresolved pain, wounds, traumas 02:32 scars from our past... and we're pretending that 02:36 we're fine... and so that's what I did for many, many, many years 02:40 and it nearly destroyed me... to make the long story short 02:45 about... I think it was maybe about 10 years ago, 02:49 I suffered from just very, very, debilitating depression 02:52 and for me... what it looked like was 02:55 waking up... first of all... not wanting to wake up... 02:58 I didn't want to see the sun... because that then meant 03:02 I had to get into my performance role and face a lot of things 03:07 that I just really didn't want to face... 03:09 and so I would lie there in bed and really kind of like 03:13 in a fetal position with tremendous anxiety 03:16 knots in my stomach, in tears, and it took me 03:20 ridiculous amount of time to get up 03:24 out of the bed... to shower, to dress, 03:27 and then put the mask on... Now, Terrie, was this a gradual 03:32 thing or did this happen... was this just like... 03:36 one event that just triggered it was this a gradual... 03:41 No... I would say that it was very gradual because the way 03:45 that we move through the world has to do with 03:49 how we grew up... and it also has to do with 03:52 the forces around us... whether or not we are doing 03:56 the things that we are called to do... that we enjoy to do 03:59 whether or not we have toxic people in our lives 04:01 whether or not we are doing too many things 04:04 running away from those issues that just all of a sudden... 04:09 hit you at the same time... and you are like... immobilized 04:13 Hmmmm... and that's what happened to me 04:16 and I... at some point... I just... I remember... 04:20 excuse me... 04:28 sometimes... when I talk about the journey... 04:30 Yes... ... it's very, very emotional 04:33 because I can feel, right now, what that was like... for me... 04:39 Yes... yes... ... what I do know is... 04:41 that it's necessary to talk about it... 04:44 and I remember clearly... hearing one day, when God said, 04:48 "You have to share your story" 04:51 and first of all... and you know... 04:54 whenever people would say to me they heard God tell them 04:56 something... I was like... I believed in God 04:59 but I never heard Him tell me anything... right... 05:03 Like people hearing voices... like hallucination... 05:07 I thought something was wrong with me... 05:08 I was just, you know, like a fake Christian or something 05:11 so, what I heard... very clearly "You have to tell your story" 05:16 and it was at that moment... that I knew that I was 05:20 supposed to do that... and I happened to be 05:23 in on a panel for C-Span and they were talking about... 05:26 it was about HIV and AIDS, there were about 8 panelists... 05:29 and what I spoke about was the fact that 05:32 when we don't deal with our issues 05:34 then we self-medicate with promiscuous unprotected sex, 05:39 shopping when we don't have any money... 05:41 gambling, drinking, overeating, there are a myriad of things 05:46 that we will do... to not feel the actual pain 05:51 that we are in. Hmmmm... 05:53 And so, the then editor-in-chief from Essence 05:54 she was there with her 13-year-old daughter 05:56 and she had never heard about depression and she asked me 06:00 if I would share it... and... her name was Diane Weathers 06:03 and she said to me, "I'm stunned... stunned to hear 06:07 that you suffer from depression" but it's... 06:09 everybody that you know is going through something... 06:12 and you can't tell... you look at the person next to you 06:14 who might seem to have a myriad of riches 06:17 might seem to be that nothing can ever go wrong with them 06:21 but you never know what is underneath that mask 06:24 because we all wear one... You know what Terrie... 06:27 that is so true... and the more... you know... 06:31 we're always juggling... so we're juggling 06:34 what happens with home, what happens with work, 06:38 what happens with our personal relationships... 06:41 if we're parents, we're juggling that... 06:44 and so we're always quote "wearing the mask" 06:47 so, when people... when you're at work... 06:49 I remember when I was in the music business 06:51 and I'd go to work and people would say, 06:53 "Oh, how're you doing?" I'd say, "Oh, great, everything 06:55 is fine... " you're wearing that mask... 06:57 and you could be crumbling inside... 07:00 That's right... that's right... and you're doing 07:02 all of these things... and with you... in the position 07:06 that you have been in for all these years, 07:09 you know, a position of being a high-powered woman... 07:12 that's who you are... you wear a lot of hats... 07:16 and it begins to wear on you, so, this is what 07:19 you're telling us... you were wearing that mask 07:22 and we appreciate... so much... 07:25 your sharing your journey, by-the-way because 07:27 so many people... need to hear this because they're dealing 07:31 with it too... Exactly, you know.. you're right 07:35 it's absolutely where the healing begins... 07:39 because if we keep silent... which is why... I'm really... 07:43 sometimes I speak in front of thousands of people 07:45 and I never know when the emotions of what I went through 07:48 in the early stages... I never know how it might hit me 07:51 but, if the tears flow... the tears flow... 07:54 because, you have to see it all, you have to know 07:57 that you are not alone and how you are feeling... 08:01 and so... that's my mission... I'm a woman on fire... 08:06 because it's almost as if I saw someone 08:08 about the cross the street and the car was coming... 08:10 and for me... to not try to pull 08:12 that person back or say, 08:13 "Watch out" would be just the height of irresponsibility 08:16 so, what I know is... that I use my voice 08:20 and my experience to let people know... 08:24 that they are not alone... and that there is joy 08:27 on the other side... of dealing with your issues, 08:31 and if we don't we can never be 08:34 all that God has called us to be Yes... 08:36 ...we're nothing without our mental 08:38 and emotional health... so when we are wearing that mask 08:42 because we have one for every different occasion 08:44 as you said... and in so many cases 08:45 it's plastered on our faces, and so, you know, 08:49 unless we deal with those issues like, you know, 08:52 talking to a therapist... which many of us, you know, 08:56 feel like it's a sign of weakness 08:57 Its... I think we have to redefine what "strong" is... 09:00 and "strong" means... to let the tears flow 09:03 strong means... to share your story with someone 09:07 and to also try to get to the bottom of why you are 09:10 the way that you are... through the counsel of a professional. 09:15 Yes... and that is such a good point because we, 09:18 as African Americans... we tend to put our health... 09:22 whether it's physical health, mental health... 09:25 on the back burner... we are always doing 09:28 so many other things... that we will get to that... 09:32 or... it's not that deep... or... it will be Okay... 09:36 somehow it will just be okay... you know... 09:39 That's right... ... and so.. this is why again.. 09:44 I so appreciate what you're saying because 09:48 it is a journey... and your transparency 09:51 will help others who are dealing with this... 09:53 so, let's go back to your journey for a second... 09:56 because I really want people to understand 09:58 the grip... that this depression had on you... 10:01 so one morning... in particular, you woke up and it was just 10:06 too much... at that point... correct? 10:09 Yes, I mean... it was everyday, really... and I just remember 10:16 at some point... I don't know why I'm so 10:18 emotional today about this... but in any case... 10:20 I would just... it was like... 10:25 everyday I would wake up that way... and then one day 10:27 I just said to myself... "This can't be normal 10:31 to wake up every day like this, this just can't be normal... " 10:35 and I mean, you know... I have a Master of Science degree 10:39 in Social Work and in Counseling... 10:41 I'm supposed to know what the signs are... of depression... 10:45 but when it hits you up-side 10:48 your own educated head... 10:50 it doesn't matter because you are just a human being... 10:53 but I do remember that very clearly... 10:56 something isn't right about waking up like this 10:59 every morning... and I can't tell you the days 11:01 that I trudged through... I might have had a speaking 11:06 engagement and it took all that I had 11:09 to get up out of the bed 11:10 and so, it was the grace of God that got me 11:12 to wherever it was that I was supposed to be... 11:15 because I was feeling so badly but I remember some friends, 11:18 you know... I wasn't answering the door at one point 11:21 and some friends got me to a psychiatrist 11:25 and I literally fell in her chair sobbing... 11:29 and she just... she saw me and she was like... 11:33 clinical depression... and I was like... 11:36 at the same time that I was really emotional... 11:39 I was like, "Thank you God I know this name... 11:42 I know what depression is but I didn't know 11:44 it had it's grip on me... " Yes... yes... 11:47 so, for many people... in the work that... 11:50 oh excuse me... That's fine... 11:56 ...in the work that I have been doing... 11:58 in the book that I wrote "Black Pain: It just Looks Like 12:02 We're Not Hurting" and my speaking around the 12:04 country... in many corporations in their Employee Relations 12:08 Department... I see what happens 12:12 when somebody else shares their story... 12:15 you see other faces... they start nodding their heads 12:18 they start smiling... they start crying... 12:22 and they say, "That's me" we need to know 12:25 that we're not alone in this journey... 12:27 and that everybody that you know... 12:29 I don't care who they are or what they do... 12:32 is dealing with the same stuff, and the more wealth 12:36 that you have... that's the more money 12:38 that you have to self-medicate... 12:40 and we see it splashed all over the pages... 12:42 every single day... Absolutely... 12:45 Michael Jackson... you know... poor Michael... 12:47 and Whitney Houston and Lindsay Lohan 12:50 and every time we turn around she... it plays out... 12:54 but the more money you have... 12:55 the more money you have to self-medicate 12:57 And you know... that's such a good point because 12:59 so many people... especially younger people 13:03 think that money is going to be the answer 13:06 to all of their issues... let me just get some money... 13:09 let me just get rich... let me just get rich or die trying... 13:12 Exactly... exactly... and what it does is magnify 13:15 what it really does is magnify who you really are... 13:19 Yes... yes... The more that you are... 13:20 it magnifies it... it just sad... 13:22 when you have money... you can buy... anything... 13:25 we will do any thing... to not feel the real pain... 13:29 you know.. anorexia and bulimia is a much larger issue 13:33 in the African-American Community than it used to be, 13:36 you know... where you eat... and then you put your finger 13:39 down your throat and then you throw everything 13:41 back up... again... you know... so, those... 13:44 so, we will just.. the act of... many people end up having 13:48 esophagus problems who suffer with 13:52 anorexia or bulimia 13:53 there are a whole host of ways in which we suffer... 13:56 but that is more preferable than the emotional pain 13:59 that we experience... Yes... they're trying to 14:03 resolve... to ease the pain... To numb the pain... 14:06 Yes... yes... So, let's look at the 14:09 African-American Community as a whole... 14:12 what is the preponderance of depression 14:15 in the African-American Community? 14:17 Oh, where do we begin... one of the areas that we learn 14:24 very quickly that... we really don't matter... 14:27 the most recent passing... the killing of Trayvon Martin 14:33 but there is Oscar Grant in upper California 14:37 who was shot in the back in a subway station, 14:40 there's a movie now about his life... Fruitvale Station 14:43 but there are a myriad of us 14:46 who have been taken out unfairly... 14:48 simply because of the color of our skin... 14:51 and the reality is... that... we learn... early on 14:57 that we're almost invisible 14:58 that... other people don't see us 15:01 or they are afraid of us, you know, 15:03 and so you understand that you're like... 15:07 if you are a young black man or an older black man 15:09 in this country... you know it's warfare... 15:12 it's not just from other people we kill our own... 15:19 Yes, yes... you know... and it's because 15:21 I'll give you... for instance... I created some 15:25 Public Service Announcements that were done with SAMHSA, 15:30 the Governmental Agency... and I move around the country 15:34 taught children spots... I was in Atlas High School 15:37 there were about 60 kids they were watching spots... 15:39 they were crying and talking 15:42 and one young man gets up 15:44 15-years-old... very courageous, and he said that he 15:47 stabbed someone seven times... another young man... seven times 15:51 did not kill him but what he said after that is what... 15:54 it pierced my spirit... but it said everything... 15:57 he said... "And he wasn't even the one that I was mad at... " 16:00 Oh... And so, that's the thing... 16:04 that we need to be kind... we need to be kind and gentle 16:07 with one another... even if you're walking down the 16:09 street and you see somebody pass your way... 16:11 you can look that person in the eye, smile and say, "Hello" 16:14 they might turn around to see who you're talking to... 16:17 because surely you're not talking to me... 16:18 because... I don't matter... what we don't know... 16:22 we have to be careful how we treat people 16:24 because we don't know what their journey has been... 16:27 and when you can't get at the person who has violated 16:29 your body... or violated your spirit... 16:32 then you will take it out on whoever is closest to you 16:37 at the moment that you get a trigger... 16:39 You know, this is such a good point because 16:44 there is such self-loathing and you know, here at Dare to Dream 16:50 one of the things that we really promote is the fact that 16:54 God has a plan for each of us, and we want our young people 16:58 to know that there is a divine plan for their lives... 17:02 but there is such a feeling of desperation and hopelessness 17:08 I was talking to a young man who is seventeen, Terrie, 17:12 and he was a gang banger... and he was saying... 17:15 "I don't care if I die... I don't care... " 17:18 That's right... that's right... and going into enemy territory 17:22 is committing suicide they do this everyday... 17:26 they suffered... gang members... 17:27 because I mentor a number of young brothers 17:29 who are members of the Bloods... 17:30 and even created an opportunity for them to have therapy 17:35 with a friend of mine who a psychiatrist 17:37 who specializes in trauma victims... 17:40 but gang members suffer from very, very severe 17:43 Post-traumatic Stress Disorder and nobody is getting any help 17:46 Hmmmmm... ... And so, it's not just 17:50 the gang members who maybe don't want to be here 17:53 and go into enemy territory... 17:54 they know that they're going to be killed 17:56 it's also... when you... 18:00 when you just do things 18:04 that you know... to know... are going to get 18:07 you in trouble... Yes, it's a kind of recklessness 18:11 Yes, it is because it's just... you don't want to necessarily 18:16 take yourself out... but you put yourself in a 18:18 position to be taken out... Yes... 18:21 ...you know... and there are so many of us, 18:22 not just gang members... because there is such a 18:25 high level of violence everywhere we turn, 18:27 we have people who see somebody shot and killed... 18:31 adults and children... they witness somebody 18:34 shot and killed right in front of them 18:35 whether it's a family member or not, and then, 18:38 they get up and go to work or go to school the next day... 18:41 like they didn't just witness 18:43 the most horrific thing on God's earth... 18:46 Hmmm... ... so, when you get to work 18:48 or school... you can't concentrate 18:50 because of what you just saw, 18:52 and you haven't talked to anyone about it... so... 18:55 you start to act out... you're disruptive in the 18:58 classroom or you can't focus when you're at your desk... 19:01 and when we are diagnosed with, they tend to diagnose us with... 19:05 what do you call it... one of those things... 19:07 ADHD and... AD... AD... ADHD... 19:11 sometimes we get relegated to Special-Education Classes 19:14 all because we were traumatized and didn't get any help... 19:18 Right... Recently a 2-year-old was shot 19:20 in the playground up-town... in Manhattan... 19:23 and her mother saw an article in the paper... 19:26 and her mother said that that every time she hears a 19:28 loud noise in the house or outside... 19:31 she starts screaming and crying, but I bet... 19:35 that nobody has identified it as PTSD and I know 19:40 that she didn't get routed to a child psychiatrist who would 19:44 have her draw pictures about how she was feeling... 19:47 and so we don't get the help that we need... 19:50 Yes... ... and we're dying... 19:51 And we are dying... ... and getting diagnosed early 19:55 like that with maybe, you know, ADD and those kinds of disorders 20:01 that is the first pipeline to 20:04 prison and the grave 20:06 Hmmmm... hmmmm.. ... because you never get the 20:08 help that you need... and babies who are having babies 20:11 they have their own stuff that they have not dealt with 20:14 and so they're certainly not going to be in a position 20:16 to raise their own children properly... 20:20 That's right... ... many of them will not know 20:22 how to do that... they have never been to a 20:24 Counselor or would never go... or think that you would be crazy 20:27 to go... when in fact... it's how it helps you to breath 20:31 to get some... some kind of an understanding 20:35 of why you're the way you are, your daddy wasn't in your life 20:39 we don't talk enough about fatherlessness... 20:41 Oh... my... ... and how it affects girls 20:43 and boys differently... but if you don't have your daddy 20:46 in your life and you don't even have an explanation 20:48 you experience it as... abandonment... 20:55 depression... Rejection... 20:57 ...rejection... exactly... and you have nowhere to go... 21:00 and because we tend not to explain to the child 21:06 because they don't understand their feelings... 21:08 they don't understand why they just punched a hole... 21:10 in the wall... they don't understand that... 21:12 so we have to frame the issue for the child and say, 21:15 "You know what, your daddy is not in your life... 21:17 he is having his own issues he doesn't know how to be with 21:21 you at this time... but I want you to know that 21:24 in his own way.. he loves you and that you will sometimes 21:29 feel like you're angry for no reason... 21:31 but you have reason... and so, if you feel that way, 21:34 come and talk to me" but those are the... 21:36 we have to frame the issue... so that they understand 21:39 But so often, we don't even know to do that... 21:42 see, that is such a critical piece... it needs to be framed 21:46 and the child needs to be... to understand that it's not 21:49 your fault... there's nothing intrinsically wrong with you 21:53 that would lead your daddy to not be here... 21:56 That's right... You know, mommy and daddy 21:58 couldn't get along or something but it's not you... 22:01 we need to frame that... that is a critical piece 22:05 and we're not doing that... the fatherlessness issue 22:09 is a huge, huge issue... and now I'm involved with 22:14 an Organization that deals with fatherlessness... 22:18 because it is a critical piece, what would you say... 22:21 what are some of the strategies that... if someone is dealing 22:25 with depression right now... well, first, what are some of 22:28 the symptoms of depression and then let's look at the 22:30 strategies for addressing them. Well, the first one that I would 22:35 just mention is... the obvious ways that we 22:37 self-medicate... you know, to not feel the real pain 22:40 if you see someone who is constantly drinking or eating 22:43 or working... because working is an addiction as well... 22:46 that is someone who is running away from their pain... 22:50 I don't want to see anybody in the office at 22:52 like 8 O'clock in the morning 22:53 and they are there 11 O'clock at night 22:55 Hmmm... ... sounds like Terrie... 22:56 for a minute there huh... what I'm saying is 22:59 you're running from something... you know... 23:02 that it's not an employee to uplift 23:04 it's someone who is running 23:06 from their things... it's being sad, 23:09 crying for apparently no reason over a period of 23:13 two to three weeks... you're not enjoying the things 23:15 that you used to... enjoy... you find yourself 23:19 lashing out at people because you're not getting 23:21 at what's really bothering you, you call in sick to work... 23:26 just a myriad of things will change and you can see 23:30 something in many people's eyes that they are not... 23:34 they don't do the things that they used to do... 23:37 that brought them joy... you know, 23:39 and getting pregnant... having 3, 4, 5 kids with 23:45 different baby daddies... do you know what I'm saying... 23:48 Yes... yes... yes... ... because those are just some 23:51 of the things... and I go into great detail 23:53 about that, you know, in my book Hmmm... hmmm... 23:56 but it's a feeling like you don't want to be here 24:00 on the planet... you can't get up... 24:02 you can't get to sleep at night everything is off 24:07 and if you feel like something is wrong... 24:11 something is wrong... Hmm... oh that's a great point 24:15 and I think that a lot of times that we know something's 24:19 not quite right but we don't want to... 24:22 like for the last few days I've been feeling like... 24:25 not quite myself... and I was spending some quiet 24:28 time with God and I was just... "What's bothering you?" 24:31 "Did you say 'yes' to something that you wanted to say 'no' to" 24:36 because if that's true... because that has been an issue 24:39 for me... because of how I grew up... 24:41 wanting to please... and this is in all love because 24:46 what I'm about to say is that my mother was very stern, 24:50 her father abandoned nine kids she was the only one 24:54 who graduated out of the 9 kids in her family, 24:56 and it left a scar that has made her very, very bitter 25:00 Hmmm... and so, I learned very early on 25:06 and the reason I'm saying that is because I always felt 25:09 like I had to please her... because, I wanted her to approve 25:15 of me... so that... it made me a people-pleaser 25:19 so, when you're a people-pleaser you're going to do and say 25:24 anything... sorry about that, you're going to do and say 25:29 anything... that will please the other person... 25:31 meanwhile... you... are nothing, Hmmm... 25:35 ...because you're busy doing what everybody else 25:38 wants you to do... and to be... and as I say this... 25:40 it's not a criticism of my mother... 25:42 it is the reality... our parents do 25:46 the very best... they can do... Yes, and you have to start there 25:50 with the acknowledgement of what has happened... 25:54 in your life... to create certain issues... 25:58 Yes... ... you start there... 25:59 you have to acknowledge that, you know what, Terrie, 26:03 we only have two minutes left, I cannot believe... 26:06 because there are so many things I want to get to... 26:09 I'm going to have to bring you back... so... 26:12 you're going to have to come back again and give us 26:14 some more insight... but which strategies... 26:17 can you recommend to people who are in the throes 26:21 of depression right now... First, I want to just say 26:25 to read the book... because it will tell you 26:28 everything that you need to know about how you're living 26:33 how you're moving... you will see yourself 26:35 and everyone that you know, and to understand 26:38 that there is joy on the other side 26:41 of addressing your issues... being honest with yourself 26:44 and seeing a professional... it's great to have friends 26:47 but nothing can take the place... of a professional 26:49 who can guide you with certain questions... 26:51 my therapist asked me something one day 26:53 she said, "I know about your issues with your mother, 26:55 what about... with your dad... and just like that... 26:58 my hand went to my head and it was like 26:59 I knew immediately what she was talking about... 27:02 Hmmm... ... it wouldn't have hit me 27:04 like that if I had not had guidance... 27:06 Yes... ... one thing that I want to say 27:09 is that racism kills, it just kills... 27:12 when you know that you're treated differently 27:14 when you walk into... if you're... 27:16 say a big, tall, black man dark skinned... 27:18 you walk into Corporate America 27:19 you end up... you have a booming voice 27:21 you lower your voice... so that you're not as 27:23 intimidating to others... you smile extra... 27:25 you stand differently... and just because you can do that 27:29 when you walk in the door everyday 27:30 doesn't mean that it doesn't take something out of you... 27:33 Yes... yes... 27:34 ...and if you don't believe in going to a therapist... 27:36 then you end up taking things like that 27:38 out at home... to people who don't deserve it. 27:41 Right, right... exactly... ... so we need God, 27:43 he puts people in our lives, we sometimes... 27:46 because of religion, we'll say "Oh, well, God will... 27:48 God will... I'll just prayed it away... " 27:50 God sends the right people... 27:51 Yes, and He send us to to the right people... 27:54 Terrie, thank you so much for being with us today. 27:57 Thank you Yvonne, it was an honor and a blessing. 28:01 And thank you for being with us... 28:04 Tune in next time... it just wouldn't be the same 28:06 without you... |
Revised 2025-01-15