Participants: Yvonne Lewis (Host), Chaplain Joe Mitchell
Series Code: UBR
Program Code: UBR000079
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00:01 Do you wonder about the gospel and think that it's complicated?
00:04 Well, my guest today is going to break it down for us... 00:07 My name is Yvonne Lewis and you're watching 00:10 Urban Report. 00:33 Hello and welcome to Urban Report... 00:36 My guest today is Chaplain Joe Mitchell 00:38 author of "The Framework of the Gospel" 00:41 and Chaplain for the Shelby County Sheriff's 00:44 Department in Memphis, Tennessee 00:46 Welcome to Urban Report Chaplain Joe... 00:49 Glad to be here... glad to be here... 00:51 Okay, so, give us a little background information 00:56 on you... because our viewers need to know 00:59 a little bit about you... 01:00 Where are you from and how did you get involved 01:03 in sharing the gospel... Well, you know, I got saved 01:07 when I was very young... and... but... 01:10 how I got involved... especially if you look at 01:15 what I do... in Prison work... I was called about 01:20 a couple of years ago to come and work with 01:21 Shelby County Sheriff's Department to be a Chaplain 01:24 for the Prison... which is a... really... Detention Center... 01:28 what that means is... Pre-Trial... 01:31 before you go to Court... you are at least held 01:34 at least one month up unto 2 to 3 years 01:37 just so... we can get your case on the Docket... 01:39 and while they're there... 01:42 we have services... all types of programs for the 01:45 inmates and one of the programs is... 01:48 I'm over at the Religious Department 01:50 in which we coordinate all the services 01:52 and Chaplain for the inmates... Ah... so you're Chaplain for 01:57 women and men and juveniles as well? 02:00 At one facility which is called 201... 02:03 it's known around the Country 02:05 as a Glamour Slammer... because we are one of the 02:08 only prisons in the area or in the Nation that has 02:12 escalators... and we have some of the most modern 02:15 technology there but I'm also the Senior Chaplain... 02:18 we have another prison just for the women and juveniles 02:21 called Jail East... in the East part of Memphis... also. 02:25 All right... all right... so when did you decide 02:29 that you wanted to share the gospel? 02:32 When did you decide that that's something that you really 02:35 wanted to do... well, the first thing happened 02:39 to me... I had an experience with the Lord myself... 02:41 Well, tell us about that... I believe that... every person 02:44 should start... at that point... What was that experience... 02:47 tell us... Oh, well, well... 02:50 when I got to a point... I was out in the world... 02:54 like everybody else 02:55 and I got to a point... I got sick and tired of being 02:58 sick and tired... and I questioned... 03:02 at that time... I didn't know who the Lord was 03:04 but I said, "There's got to be more to life than this... " 03:07 and to make the long story short... 03:09 I met man who was a Christian 03:11 who was a member of the Church 03:13 and I'm a member of that... he's deceased now... 03:16 but what he said to me when I was training him 03:19 because he was hired in the Company I was working at... 03:21 he said, "If it's the Lord's will" 03:23 I had never heard anybody say that before... 03:26 and by him making that statement I began to question him about 03:33 what he believed and things of that nature... 03:36 but at the same time... God was working on me... 03:38 which I didn't know... as I look back... 03:40 He was leading me to this person... 03:42 to meet the Lord myself... Isn't it amazing 03:46 how God puts people in our path that can help us to grow? 03:51 Of course, the enemy wants to put people in our path 03:55 to lead us away from Christ... but God will send people 03:58 to us... that can help us to grow in Him... 04:01 and so, you're saying that there was this man that 04:05 talked differently from what you were used to... 04:08 when he said, "If God wills... if it's God's will... " 04:12 and you were probably thinking, "What does that have to do 04:14 with anything?" especially if you're not a 04:16 Christian... you think... "Why is somebody going to 04:18 wait and see if it is God's will?" 04:20 and so that kind of peaked your curiosity, no? 04:24 That was the beginning of my journey because 04:27 when he said that... like I said, the people that I 04:31 hung out with... didn't talk like that... 04:33 and the Foreman at the time at the job I was working at 04:38 he specifically pointed me out and he said, 04:41 he wanted me to train him... Hmmm... 04:44 and that's what I did... and that was one of the 04:47 statements that he'd made... that stood out 04:49 that I had never heard before... Wow... and so what happened 04:53 after that... how did you get on the path... from there? 04:57 Well, from that experience... he introduced me to 05:03 the Bible... about the Sabbath, 05:07 about different things in the Bible I'd never heard before 05:10 I had never read the Bible before 05:12 I didn't know anything about it, 05:14 but he had some lessons that were very easy to follow 05:17 and so, I started taking 05:19 those lessons from him 05:21 each week... going home and studying those lessons 05:23 bought me a Bible... all my friends thought 05:25 that I went crazy... I had a Bible in my hand... 05:29 I won't want to talk about my past life but they thought 05:33 I had lost my mind... but as a result of that 05:38 I was able to find Christ and come into the Church... 05:43 through that experience... That is so wonderful... 05:48 God is so faithful... because He'll just keep 05:50 working on us and lead us to Him... 05:52 and when we find these truths you know, people around you 05:57 who don't believe as you do... 05:59 can think you've lost your mind... 06:00 but you know you found it 06:02 you found your mind... 06:04 you found the mind of Christ... That's right... 06:07 so, now, you're in the Lord, you're a Chaplain... 06:10 tell us about this book about the foundation of the gospel... 06:15 What is that about? Well, let me connect something, 06:19 I had been in the Church... I'd say about 7 years... 06:22 and I felt... there was something missing... 06:26 I knew doctrine... I knew prophecy... 06:28 and all those different things but something was missing... 06:33 and what happened was... I visited another Church 06:38 and this Pastor asked me to pray for the congregation 06:44 at the Altar Prayer... and I saw something 06:47 I had never seen before... I had never experienced... 06:50 when I finished praying... the people were crying... 06:54 and I said to myself... "Lord, it's something 06:57 I'm missing... I know doctrine, I know prophecy... 07:01 I know all these things like how I should dress... 07:04 how I should eat... but there was something missing 07:07 out of my experience... and that's the thing 07:10 I went looking for... and I found that thing... 07:12 and that's what's reflected in my book... 07:15 Okay... and what is that thing, tell us... 07:18 The major component... I believe that a lot of us 07:23 are missing... when I talk about Church... 07:25 I'm talking about Christendom, is establishing a relationship 07:29 with the Lord... first... and then... 07:33 building from that standpoint... I look at it like marriage... 07:36 then I explain it... is when you get married 07:39 you don't get married... then fall in love... 07:42 you fall in love... and then you get married... 07:46 and then... in the marriage process... 07:49 you can have the car, 07:50 the home, the kids, everybody can be educated... 07:53 but, if you don't have love, what do you have? 07:56 Hmmm... and I found out... 07:59 that was the missing link, in my experience 08:02 so, I don't really tell it, I share it... 08:05 Ah, so, in other words, what you're saying 08:09 and this is so good... this is so valid because... 08:12 you know, we can teach all the doctrine we want to... 08:16 but if it's not based on love, and our relationship... 08:20 our love relationship with Jesus Christ... 08:22 what difference does it make? it's a form of Godliness... 08:27 it's a form of Godliness... That's right... 08:29 I share this with my inmates... my women, men and juveniles, 08:33 Saint John 3:19... we know 3:16... 08:36 but 3:19 says... "and this is the combination 08:40 this is our problem... men love darkness... 08:43 rather than light... because their deeds are evil 08:46 love is a factor... it's because the devil has caused us to 08:50 pervert our love... instead of loving God, 08:53 we love sin... we cannot change... 08:55 but once we get converted or transformed... 08:59 the love of Christ will take care of 09:01 everything else in our lives... I've discovered... 09:04 even in a marriage... 09:05 if you are not making the amount of money 09:08 that you need to make, or people don't have education 09:10 for their families... whatever difficulties you may have... 09:12 if you got love... you can make it... 09:15 Absolutely... so what you're telling us... 09:18 and this is an important point for our viewers to get... 09:22 is that... you could be going to Church on the right day... 09:26 you can be living the health message... 09:29 eating the right foods... you're exercising... 09:32 doing all that stuff... but if you don't have the love 09:35 of Christ in your heart... and love... for Him... 09:39 then... it really doesn't... really matter... 09:43 it's all about "works" then... 09:44 It's one of the biggest deceptions 09:47 that the devil has pulled over the Church 09:49 since the beginning of time... if you look in my book... 09:53 the first chapter deals with the paradigm shift... 09:56 I talk about Matthew the 7th Chapter verses 21 to 28 10:00 in that area... talks about the 2 houses... 10:03 the difference in the two houses is the fact 10:05 they look just alike on the outside 10:07 they even have the same problems 10:09 wind... storm and rain... 10:11 but the difference was in the foundation... 10:14 in the lives of each and every one of us... 10:16 I cannot see your foundation... 10:18 I don't know what your foundation is... 10:21 but if you have the right foundation which is Jesus, 10:25 you can make it through anything 10:27 and that's what we need to establish 10:29 in our lives... 10:31 is getting a relationship with the Lord... 10:33 Yes... so that relationship is the foundation against which 10:39 the winds can blow, the winds of life and strife 10:43 can blow... but if we are built upon that rock... 10:47 nothing can prevail against it. Well, you know, if you look 10:52 at this... I bring this out in my book in Chapter 1... 10:55 in life... if you stay in the Church or leave... 10:58 you're going to have wind, storm and rain 11:01 it's going to come... but the difference is 11:04 if you have a solid foundation, you can rebuild... 11:08 you will not lose your way, you may be discouraged, 11:12 you'll be knocked down but the foundation will keep you 11:15 in your relationship with the Lord... 11:17 so many times we throw around this word, "relationship" 11:20 basically, relationship means just spending time with God... 11:26 once you do that... the relationship will form... 11:29 it will build and it will last. You know, Chaplain Joe, 11:33 that is important too... because we do throw words around 11:38 and people want to understand... like break it down for me... 11:43 like when you say, "He's my personal Savior," 11:45 what do you mean... when you say relationships 11:48 what do you mean... like, how can I have that relationship 11:51 and I think... you brought it out 11:53 earlier in the conversation 11:55 where you're talking about... "if you love someone... 11:58 you marry someone... after you've fallen in love 12:02 with them... " and there are certain things 12:04 that you do... when you love someone... 12:06 you spend time with them... you want to be around them... 12:09 you talk with them... you find out what they like... 12:13 and you try to give them what they like... 12:16 if they like certain foods, you try to do that... 12:19 it's about building... a relationship and if you think 12:26 about the elements in a relationship, 12:28 you're going to realize what you need to do... 12:32 to build that relationship with Christ... 12:36 That's beautiful because... when you were talking 12:39 I think about my inmates and most of the cases... 12:42 I'm in charge of about 1,200 people... 12:45 we have almost 3,000 inmates in the downtown facility 12:49 with... men's facility about a 1,000 12:51 and about 300 women... and about 30 juveniles... 12:54 and the... most of the... well, I say the majority 12:57 of the people that I talk to don't have any type of religious 13:01 experience... so I have to break down those terms 13:04 so they can understand... and when I talk about relationship 13:08 I just put T I M E... spend time with the Lord 13:11 in other words, just spend time reading, 13:13 praying, come to Church 13:15 do all those things and the relationship will form... 13:18 and I use the illustration, I say, "If you had a pit bull... 13:22 and if you're there with him... everyday... 13:23 you can take the chain off he'll walk with you... 13:25 but if you saw him about every other month... 13:27 he'll bite your leg off... 13:28 because he doesn't know you... so it's very important 13:31 that we understand and also 13:33 break those things down 13:34 for the people... even for ourselves... 13:36 to stay in the Lord... because we're not telling... 13:39 we're sharing... That's right... that's right... 13:42 and that's an important point too... 13:45 if we don't know Him for ourselves... 13:48 how can we really share him... 13:50 how can we really let anybody else know about Him... 13:54 if we don't know Him for ourselves... 13:56 and how do we get to know Him? It's by spending time 14:01 in that Word and in prayer... and making time... 14:05 you know if you are in a love relationship... 14:08 and, you know, let's say, you and your wife... 14:11 and you never spend time with her... 14:14 "Oh, honey, I don't have time right now... 14:15 oh, I can't do it right now... " 14:17 or "I can't be with you right now... " 14:18 Well, how is that showing love? but if you spend time with her 14:23 and if you try to bring the things that she loves... 14:26 then... that says... you're making an effort 14:29 to show her that you love her... and I think that's what we need 14:32 to do with Jesus... we don't do that enough... 14:35 with the Lord... and I think when you've been 14:37 in the Church for a while or if you're unchurched... 14:40 you don't... if you're in the Church... 14:42 you can just get complacent... and just think... 14:45 "Oh, I'm going to Church on Sabbath... 14:46 so I'm doing the right thing" well, it's not that... 14:50 it's about loving God... so now we've established that 14:54 that foundation is love... what goes on top of that... 14:58 according to your book... which I thought was 15:00 really an interesting, informative, very easy to read, 15:04 book... that really can bring you closer to Christ... 15:07 what's next... you've got... the foundation of love... 15:10 what's built on that? Before we leave love... 15:13 I deal with the love of Jesus in the 5th Chapter... 15:18 I believe... of my book... most people... 15:21 when we said it... would say... casually... 15:23 we really don't understand what I mean by that... 15:25 if you look at the term "Love of Jesus" 15:29 it's a preposition... 15:30 the preposition is "of"... that means... it belongs to Him 15:33 now, the Bible tells us in 1 John 4:10 15:38 we don't have that level of love then, it tells us in 1 John 4:19 15:43 We love Him because He first loved us... 15:46 the only way we can get this love that I'm talking about 15:50 you need to get Him... you cannot conjure it up... 15:54 you can't manufacture it, 15:55 you can't be with Him longer than... 15:57 you have to everyday ask Him to bring His love 16:00 because it belongs to Him... and once you get Him... 16:03 you get the person... and He brings us love 16:06 and lives out His life... through us again... 16:08 according to Galatians 2:20... so, so many times we say 16:13 these things... but the thing that we need 16:16 to understand... any time God asks us to do something... 16:18 it's always easy... and all we have to do 16:21 is receive Him... He will bring His love... 16:24 and you will surprise yourself who you can love 16:26 when Christ is in you... That's right... 16:29 you'll be surprised who you can love 16:31 and who you can pray for... if Christ is in you... 16:34 That's very true... That is so true... 16:36 so what's next... after that love... 16:38 Once we establish that... I talk about prayer, 16:42 study and witness, these are the areas 16:45 that will bring strength into your life 16:47 it's very important that we do these things 16:50 on a consistent basis... as we learn how to pray 16:54 you know what... the thing that I'm very concerned about... 16:56 individuals in a relationship I'm building with people 16:59 every day is... spending that personal time 17:02 not just to study for a sermon or for a Bible Study 17:06 but studying to infuse yourself with God and then when it's 17:12 time to give Bible Studies and all those things... 17:14 you'll be ready... but you've got to pray... 17:16 you got to study God's Word and witness... 17:19 you know... these things will come... 17:21 out of the love relationship experience... 17:23 well, you see, once you get the love relationship right, 17:27 these things will automatically come out... 17:30 you don't have to make yourself do these things anymore... 17:33 they will automatically come out of that experience... 17:35 just like you stated earlier, 17:37 once I fall in love... I'm going to take care of my home 17:39 I'm going to take care of my family... 17:40 those things... you don't have to think about 17:42 they will automatically come out if we look back at Acts 2 17:46 looking at the Pentecostal Mall those individuals were not 17:50 planning on doing evangelistic work... 17:53 they were just so full of what they had... 17:56 they didn't have business cards, they didn't have a business plan 17:58 they didn't have billboards, they didn't have a program... 18:02 they were just so full of love of Jesus and sharing it... 18:05 it turned the world upside down and that's what we need 18:08 and that's what we're lacking... it seems like we jump over that 18:11 that principle and move to the other areas... 18:16 but we need to get the love of Jesus... right in our lives 18:19 and then everything else will take care of itself... 18:23 Absolutely, again... when you are in love with someone 18:27 you want to be... in their presence... 18:29 you want them to be around... you want to learn more 18:33 about them... if you're in a new love relationship 18:38 you're asking questions... you're find out who they are 18:41 what they're about... well, we have the Word of God 18:44 that tells us who Jesus is... and what He is about 18:47 and as we get to know Him more and more... 18:51 we fall more in love with Him because of who He is... 18:54 and how He is and how He deals with people... 18:57 and it's all the in the Word, it's there for us 19:00 to get a glimpse into His personality... 19:03 so, I think that's so true... so you have the Love of Christ 19:07 as the foundation, and then you have the Prayer 19:10 and the Bible Study and Witnessing 19:12 as the next pillars and you're actually building the framework 19:17 you're building a house... Right... very true... 19:22 So, the love that we have for Christ that comes 19:25 because it's His love, as you said, 19:28 then we have the Bible Study the Witnessing and the Prayer 19:32 what comes after that? The next step is Doctrine... 19:36 now this is where we make our error... 19:39 and a lot of our Bible Studies, evangelistic crusades... 19:44 as I see... we are bringing doctrine first 19:49 before we bring the love of Jesus 19:51 I talk about it in the book... Divine Order 19:54 you know, it's an order that God has set up... 19:57 it's just like I said, you wouldn't get married 19:59 and fall in love... you'll fall in love and get married... 20:01 you have to do it... or you wouldn't have a baby 20:03 before you get married... in other words... 20:04 you have to do it in the order that... 20:05 the way God has set it up... once you explain to a person 20:10 they understand the love of Jesus 20:13 the Bible says, "If you love me, you'll keep my commandments" 20:17 but look what it says, 20:19 "If you love me... you'll keep my commandments... " 20:22 it talks about the relationship first... 20:24 then it talks about the responsibility... 20:26 it says, slash if you love me 20:29 slash you'll keep my commandments... 20:31 one of those aspects of it, 20:34 it always talks about the love first... 20:35 if we have... and then Paul says 20:37 "The love of Christ constraineth us" 20:39 no other reason... not to fill up the church 20:42 not to win souls, not to be recognized... 20:45 but because the love of Jesus constrains you... 20:49 anything you love... that's a principle... 20:51 and I've discovered that love whether it be for wrong or right 20:55 will find a way... That's right... that is right... 20:58 It will find a way... That is right... 21:01 so, we know that... as we continue... 21:05 in this Christian experience that if we're growing... 21:09 we are doing these things, you know, 21:11 Prayer, Studying and Witnessing, and then... we're just moving 21:15 forward with doctrine... we need to understand 21:19 the principles here that we are living by... 21:23 and that's what those doctrines are... correct? 21:26 You know, I like to say about Doctrine... 21:28 I don't want to throw doctrine out the window... 21:30 we need structure... Hmmm... hmmm... 21:33 I need to know... it's time to go to bed... 21:36 I need to know... I need to come out of the club, 21:38 I need to know what to eat, 21:40 I need to know what day to worship... 21:42 all those things... they work together 21:44 but you have to put them in the right order 21:46 because, you know for yourself, a person can know 21:49 all these things... and then hate everybody in the Church 21:53 it's a process 21:57 of putting it in Divine Order 21:58 now, if you are in a situation like I was... 22:01 I came in... in the Church 22:03 on Doctrine... for those years... 22:05 and really... not that I hated people 22:08 but I knew that there was something missing... 22:10 now I have the joy it's not obligation... 22:14 it's appreciation... 22:16 Come on... explain that... get into that for us... 22:19 the reason why is... I said... there's a phrase 22:23 that the Lord gave me in this book... 22:24 is... the majority of the people serve God out of obligation 22:29 they are trying to get to heaven... 22:30 they want to live right, they want to be 22:33 thought well of in the Community, 22:35 but going back to the husband and wife relationship, 22:37 if you only got a present 22:41 because he wanted to make sure you got a dinner 22:44 or a got a compliment that's the wrong motivation 22:47 but if he just buys something of the whim 22:51 because he loves his wife 22:53 that's out of appreciation... 22:55 and I believe that the Lord will love... for us 22:58 to work out of appreciation rather than the obligation... 23:02 and that's something that's addressed in 23:04 the Matthew the 7th Chapter, Jesus said, 23:07 "Why call me Lord, Lord... and do not the things that I say?" 23:10 He was talking about the individuals who had said, 23:14 "Lord did we cast out devils and did many wonderful works 23:17 and all those different things" that they were doing it... 23:19 maybe... I don't know... but out of the obligation 23:22 they were able to manifest their gifts... 23:24 but He said, "I never knew you, we never had a relationship... " 23:27 it's possible to be in a marriage 23:30 without a relationship... you can have everything in place 23:33 the good job... kids are doing well in school... 23:36 you know, money... but if you don't have the 23:39 right relationship... you still don't... 23:42 really don't have a marriage... 23:44 That's right... So, and then... 23:46 you will not enjoy it... you are there because you're 23:49 trying to win heaven when heaven is already yours... 23:51 That's right... That is right... 23:53 so, how do you go about sharing this... with the inmates 23:58 that you're working with? Well, my process is... the same 24:01 one of the things they asked me when I 24:03 first got hired... they knew I was in ministry... 24:06 What would I do different than... 24:09 what people outside the jail... and inside the jail... 24:12 I said I wouldn't do anything different 24:13 because we all need Jesus... and so what my process is... 24:17 I'm laying the foundation, 24:19 I'm teaching them about the love of Jesus, 24:23 we're engaging them so they can understand 24:25 the love of Jesus... and then sharing other things later 24:29 but the main thing... because I might not see this 24:32 inmate maybe one week or I might see in 2 years... 24:35 just because of how long they're going to be there 24:36 before they go to trial... 24:38 I want to make sure the relationship is there... 24:40 and then I support it by sending other material... 24:42 they go to another institution or they go home 24:45 but I want to make sure they have a love relationship 24:47 before they leave... 24:48 I want to insulate them and not isolate them 24:51 Hmmm... and you know, what crossed my mind as you were 24:54 talking was that so many of these people 24:58 have not had any real meaningful relationships in their lives 25:04 so they might not even understand the concept 25:08 of a really deep love relationship 25:10 so you have a real, real daunting kind of task 25:16 ahead of you because they might not even understand 25:19 how do you love somebody when they might not even love 25:22 themselves or never really experienced the love of a parent 25:27 or someone close to them... Well, that's a very good point 25:31 you made because I do deal with those issues 25:33 one of the things I try to establish with the women, 25:37 the men and the juveniles is that father- son- or daughter- 25:40 relationship... understand that God... 25:43 I say... "You may not have ever seen your earthly father 25:46 but you do have a heavenly Father" 25:47 and I go in pointing out things... what He has D O N E... 25:53 rather than what you need to do... 25:55 this is a problem we have too in presenting the gospel 25:59 and I use this example in my book 26:01 Mark the 5th Chapter... the demon-possessed man 26:04 when Jesus cast out the demons out of him in verses 18 and 19 26:09 he wanted to be with Jesus, Jesus said, 26:12 "Go home to thy friends and tell how good things 26:16 the Lord has D O N E 26:18 and had compassion for thee" he didn't need to know the Bible 26:21 he didn't need to know the 2300 days but he could tell 26:25 what God had done for him... and so, that's why I start 26:28 at that point... is understanding, 26:31 showing them what the Lord has done... 26:33 because we got to build a relationship... 26:35 if they've never known the Lord... 26:36 "I didn't know the Lord cared for me... " 26:38 I said, "The reason why you're not covered up 26:40 rather than just locked up is because God loves you... " 26:43 and I know... we're teaching it from that standpoint 26:46 showing the love of God and what He has D O N E 26:49 and what He has done and once that has been 26:53 established... the doing becomes easy... 26:57 once you fall in love with somebody... it's easy to do... 27:01 That's right... that's right... Whoever it is... 27:05 Absolutely, and it's the word of their testimony 27:08 Yeah... that is going to help 27:10 bring others... because if you know 27:13 that... if somebody says... 27:15 "I know for myself... what God has done. " 27:18 that's way more powerful than me saying, 27:22 "Well, I heard... " 27:23 no... "I know what He's done for me... " 27:26 I want to thank you Chaplain for being with us... 27:29 I can't believe our time is up, thank you so much for sharing 27:33 this information and I encourage our viewers to get your book 27:38 and to learn about the foundation of the framework 27:41 of that gospel... may God bless you 27:43 as you continue to minister for Him... 27:45 Thank you very much... 27:47 You know, sometimes we over-complicate things... 27:51 Chaplain Joe has shared the framework of the gospel 27:54 with the love of Jesus being the foundation... 27:57 upon which all is built. 27:58 Thank you for joining in... tune in next time... 28:01 it just wouldn't be the same without you. |
Revised 2015-02-12