Participants: Yvonne Lewis (Host), Cheryl Roach Thorpe
Series Code: UBR
Program Code: UBR000085
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00:01 Relationships aren't always what they seem to be...
00:03 Stay tuned to hear how one woman 00:05 dealt with hers and by the grace of God... 00:08 came out on top... 00:09 My name is Yvonne Lewis and you're watching 00:12 Urban Report... 00:34 Hello and welcome to Urban Report... 00:37 My guest today is Cheryl Roach-Thorpe... 00:40 Author and Musical Evangelist, welcome to Urban Report Cheryl. 00:44 Thank you so much, it's a pleasure to be here... 00:47 Thank you... it's so good to have you... 00:49 You know, we had your son and his group 00:52 on Magnify Him... Yes, I remember that... 00:55 and he was so excited to be here... 00:57 Yes... Laos and Harmony right? 01:00 Yes... And then, you contacted me 01:02 and you told me about this book, Hmmm... hmm... 01:05 and, I thought, "Okay, it sounds like... 01:08 she sounds like she's really gung ho about it... " 01:11 so, maybe it's really good... and I got it... 01:14 and I have to tell you... Cheryl... it is riveting... 01:18 it is a very, interesting book, and as I read it... 01:22 so many questions popped into my head... 01:24 so, I'm really glad you're here today... 01:27 because I think you can shed some light 01:29 on what was going on... so, let's talk a bit 01:33 about you and your journey so that our viewers 01:36 know who you are and where you came from... 01:39 Okay, first of all I'd like to thank you 01:41 so much for giving me this privilege... 01:43 thank you and God... Amen... 01:45 I grew up in a musical family, seven of us... 01:50 and my father would take us to the little country churches 01:54 and had all of us lined up playing with him... 01:56 we could go in the back of the truck 01:58 and get to the Church 02:00 and then we would have to take up the entire day's program 02:02 Playing what with him? Playing different instruments... 02:04 each of us played a different instrument and we... 02:07 most of us played more than one... 02:08 and we would also sing... and we would put on the entire 02:12 day's program and it was a joy... 02:14 we grew up doing that... at least 3 Sabbaths every month 02:19 we would end up going on a trip 02:21 somewhere... to some church to perform and to minister... 02:25 I should say... So, you grew up as a 02:27 Seventh-day Adventist Christian 02:28 yes... Yes... 02:29 we grew up at the Caribbean Union College Campus in Trinidad 02:32 my parents lived in Port-au-Spain and they moved 02:35 to the campus... so that we could get a better education 02:37 and that's where we grew up, yes... 02:39 Okay... all right... so you come from a musical family 02:43 Hmmm... hmmm... how did that impact 02:45 your life later... Oh... that's my pride and joy 02:48 because I can't think of my life without music... 02:52 and because it led us to minister so much in Church 02:56 the God-given talents that we had... 02:59 we were able to use them, every day... 03:01 literally... every day... to bless and bring people 03:05 to Jesus... so, we just picked up whatever 03:08 instrument was around... we taught on one... 03:10 and whatever was there we picked it up... 03:12 so all of us played different instruments... 03:14 That's great... that's great... so, you then... used your music 03:18 there was kind of like a back and forth 03:22 reciprocal thing... your music impacted your spirituality 03:25 and your spirituality impacted your music... correct? 03:28 Right... yeah... Absolutely, I would say that... 03:30 All right... and so, how did you meet your husband? 03:33 Okay... he moved from the southern part of the country 03:36 and came to live on the campus also... nearby... 03:39 and he was my brother's best friend... 03:41 Okay... So, he would be in and out of 03:44 the house and we would just be one big... happy group... 03:47 and he also came from a musical family... 03:49 and we started a small group and then it got bigger 03:53 and over the years... he ended up accompanying me... 03:56 because my brother was a musician... 03:59 he played the piano for me... and when... 04:01 he had to leave the country for a while... 04:04 I asked him to teach my husband all the songs 04:07 that he was working with me... 04:08 along with the choir and for myself... 04:10 and that's what he did... and the story is history... 04:15 so, then, you and your husband developed a relationship 04:19 through the music... 04:21 Um... I could say that... 04:24 yes... yes... because he was around in the house 04:27 just like another person because he would be in and out, 04:29 I didn't even realize when the relationship was being developed 04:33 to be honest... it just happened one day... I said, 04:35 "Wait a minute... it looks like we are getting 04:37 closer... " you know, stuff like that happened... 04:40 it just grew on us... but we were always in the 04:42 same musical group and we would hang out in the 04:44 same groups on campus, so, because of that 04:46 that's what... I think... brought us together... 04:50 so, how long after he started kind of playing around 04:54 and doing the music for you, the accompaniment for you 04:58 how long after that... did you realize that 05:00 "Hmmm... I think I have feelings for this guy" 05:04 Well, we knew each other as children... 05:07 so, we started basically courting 05:09 when we got to... maybe like... 05:13 maybe 20 something... yeah... 05:17 Okay... but he was always part of 05:19 the close circle... Right... 05:21 So you weren't teenagers when you started courting... 05:24 Hmmm... I never checked the dates... that's interesting... 05:29 it just happened... it's one of those things 05:32 that just fell into place... Okay... okay... 05:35 so tell us about your wedding... Wow, it's funny... 05:42 we were walking on the Beach in Tobago 05:45 that's the sister country... Trinidad... 05:47 and we had gone there to hang out with my brother 05:50 and his friend... and my proposal... 05:53 a lot of people read the book and they laugh at it... 05:55 because... he didn't go down on his knees... 05:58 he just held my hand... we were walking on the beach 06:01 and he said, "I think it's time for us to shack up... " 06:04 anybody from Trinidad would know what that meant... 06:06 and that's what happened... Well, wait... for those of us 06:11 who aren't from Trinidad... shack up has a whole big 06:14 connotation... I know... 06:15 so... we... and this is 3ABN... Shack up... out of the Christian 06:21 world would mean... just going to live with somebody 06:23 some woman or man that you liked Right... right... 06:25 but within the Christian context of two young people 06:28 who grew up in the system... it's just time to shack up 06:30 let's get married... Okay... all right... 06:33 at least that's what I took it as... 06:35 Okay... okay... and although I would have 06:37 loved to have the romantic type of proposal... 06:42 down on one knee and all that... 06:43 good stuff living... we didn't do that 06:45 we never got engaged... that was the engagement 06:47 and we just went back home to Trinidad... 06:49 and I told my parents... and he came and spoke 06:52 with them... and we made plans to get married 06:54 and that's where it flew... it was just natural... 06:57 it just happened... And did he say that he loved you 06:59 Yes... oh, many times... many times... 07:02 Okay... okay... and this is an important fact 07:05 because as things begin to unravel... 07:09 that seemed like a contradiction... 07:13 so, you are on the beach, 07:17 he says it's time to get married 07:19 he goes back to your family, he says, "Let's get married... " 07:23 You get married... Hmmm... hmmm... 07:24 What happens after you get married? 07:26 I'm trying to think where I should start... 07:32 we had a lot in common... a whole lot 07:36 so, the first time... he's a very friendly person 07:43 and he always boasts about the fact that 07:47 he loves to see what makes women tick... 07:51 he just loves women... not just to go be with them 07:55 but he just loves God's creation and he would always be 08:00 questioning someone or chatting with someone 08:02 he was extremely friendly... and to be honest... 08:05 that's what attracted me to him too... 08:07 because he was so friendly 08:08 he could make you feel comfortable and relaxed and 08:12 loved... he was good with his words... 08:14 so he knew exactly the right words to 08:17 make you blush... He was a smooth talker... 08:19 Yes... yes... Hmmm... hmmm... 08:20 yes, that was one of his many talents... 08:23 being able to talk smoothly... 08:26 Kind of really a charmer... Yes... 08:28 but now, what... did you notice this 08:31 before you got married... that he had this affinity 08:35 for women... that he just kind of... had this... 08:38 he wanted to know what made women tick... 08:41 or did you find out about this... 08:43 after you were married? No, I actually found that out 08:46 before... because that's how he functioned... 08:50 but it attracted me to him because... I guess 08:55 I was one of the people that he made feel good too... 08:57 and then... we had all this in common... 08:59 we did a lot of ministry together... 09:01 even from children... because he was a member 09:04 of my father's orchestra... he played the Xylophone 09:06 in my father's orchestra... 09:07 in those days, he didn't play the piano yet... 09:10 but he played the xylophone 09:12 and I would be next to him playing the... what was it? 09:15 I can't remember the name of the instrument right now 09:18 anyway, but we did a lot of instruments together... 09:21 and we would travel together and I would see him 09:24 functioning but it was no problem because 09:27 at that time... I was not attracted to him 09:30 in that sense... it was just part of living 09:32 he was just one of the bunch, so that... when I look back now 09:36 I can see... where the signs were there from way before 09:39 Hmmm... but, I guess, because I wasn't 09:42 serious then... about him... 09:45 it didn't matter to me 09:47 in that sense... he was just another good friend. 09:49 Right... He became a good friend... 09:50 Right... right... So you weren't even 09:52 thinking about the fact that he's kind of a ladies' man... 09:55 No... no... no... Yeah... yeah... 09:57 So after you got married, what happened? 10:01 when did the infidelity start? Very early in the marriage 10:08 we had a Crusade... and one of the young ladies 10:12 there would ask him to get rides home 10:14 and stuff like that 10:15 and before I knew it, that was initially the first 10:18 problem that turned up in the marriage... 10:22 the first official problem, and that's where 10:26 the trouble began... How did you deal with it? 10:30 My first, initial, angry thought was... grounds for divorce... 10:38 but I thought about it and I knew that marriages 10:43 have problems and I was committed... 10:45 I made up my mind when I got married that 10:47 I was in it for the long haul, I loved him and I believed 10:51 that he loved me... and when I look at it... 10:55 I really kind of compromised in my mind... 10:59 I'm saying... the same thing that attracted me to him 11:02 would obviously attract other women also... 11:04 and in all fairness to him, I figured, I have to find a way 11:09 to work around that... and that's what I did... 11:11 Work around... Work around in the sense 11:14 that... I almost found myself becoming friends with the people 11:19 I'm being honest... I became friends with them 11:22 so that we'd be in the same circles 11:23 and it wouldn't bother me and now that I look back 11:25 and I analyze it... I think that's what I did... 11:28 that was my method of coping at the time... 11:30 because he always boasted about being... 11:33 having more female friends than male friends... 11:36 and this was a reality, and so I had to get used to 11:39 the female clan being around him... 11:42 and then I didn't mind that... 11:43 I'm a friendly person myself and most times 11:47 they were always in my circle so it wasn't hard 11:50 to just adapt and go along... but my point was... 11:53 what I would tell him was... "Listen, once I get my position 11:58 as number 1... then... I have no problem... 12:00 because whatever else you do, that's between you and God... " 12:02 that was my basic bottom-line decision... 12:06 So, you didn't... and I'm just going to come 12:09 from a another woman's point of view... right... 12:12 so, you didn't say to him, "Look, this has got to stop... 12:17 you cannot do this... I'm not going to accept 12:20 this behavior from you... if you do it... I'm out... " 12:23 Okay, I did say that... 12:26 we made a decision... 12:29 maybe certain things that he did... 12:31 but it was not a general... 12:32 "you got to stop talking to women" 12:33 I couldn't do that... I couldn't see myself 12:35 doing that... if I would see him 12:39 chatting too long with someone, stuff like that... 12:42 kind of... obviously you're married 12:44 and you're over there talking to this person all this time... 12:46 stuff like that... I would say, 12:48 "You know... that doesn't look good... 12:49 you can't be doing stuff like that... " 12:50 and then, the problem continued because anytime you make 12:57 a woman feel good, or anybody for that matter 12:59 they are attracted to you... and these people would be drawn 13:02 towards him and that is where the problems kept on just 13:05 getting bigger and bigger... and we would drop 13:07 some of the friends who could be dropped 13:09 for whatever reason, 13:10 either they die a natural death 13:12 or maybe because I fussed about it 13:15 or maybe because he just decided... 13:17 "Okay, let me stop... " but the trend kept on 13:21 throughout the entire marriage, that general friendliness 13:24 that he had... I think he looked at it 13:27 as though it was part of his make-up 13:30 like God put him there to be able to help these people 13:33 in different ways... and it's not just people that 13:36 were attracted to him... he would help... 13:38 he would generally just be helping any woman 13:41 out there with their problem, that's what it was... 13:43 so, to be honest... I wouldn't even call it 13:46 typically it would sound as womanizing... 13:49 like he's a womanizer... 13:50 I didn't even put him in that category... 13:52 I guess, that's why I could last that long... 13:54 because... it was a genuine love "he had to help people" 13:57 but it's just that these people were always women 14:00 but I would tease him 14:03 and tell him, "When we get back to get to heaven... 14:05 the stars in his crown would have a different shape 14:08 because he would have female stars in his crown... " 14:13 Oh my, well... well okay... I don't know about that... 14:17 see, here's the thing for me, it's like... 14:20 as I read this... and being my age... 14:24 you don't get to this age without having had some 14:27 trying relationships, yes... yourself... 14:31 so, I can understand 14:33 you know, some of the things that you go through 14:37 when you're in a relationship 14:39 a marriage... and there's infidelity... 14:43 but at some point... when do you say, 14:47 "Enough is enough... " what did it take... 14:50 for you to say, 14:52 "I'm done... " how many... well, first of all 14:54 let's go back for a second how many infidelities 14:56 do you think there were? A lot... a lot that I know of 15:01 Like more than 10? Yes, I could say that... 15:08 Okay, so at what point did you say in your heart 15:12 "I'm done with this... 15:14 I'm not going to deal with this anymore... " 15:16 what did it take for you to 15:18 get there? Okay, let me back up a bit 15:20 very early in the marriage, he started using drugs 15:24 Okay... my brother was on drugs 15:26 my youngest brother who was like a best friend to me 15:29 he started using drugs with him, he was his best friend... 15:31 When you say drugs... what was it? 15:34 Cocaine, cocaine... to be exact, I guess they must have dabbled 15:36 with a lot of other stuff, but cocaine was the choice 15:40 Okay... and he actually came and 15:43 admitted to me that he was using the drugs... 15:45 the night... I never forgot... the night we had the Crusade 15:48 and he came and told me "Cheryl, I know you realize that 15:52 I've been out in the night and stuff... 15:54 and rather than make you think that I have another woman, 15:58 I want you to know that I've been using drugs with 16:00 your brother and the group of them... " 16:03 which I knew all of them anyway, I knew who the friends 16:06 that he hung out with and that really tore me apart 16:10 because on top of the attraction to women... 16:13 that was a whole new ball game, 16:15 so, this continued throughout the marriage 16:20 and I worked along with a drug rehab group 16:24 that was formed in the Conference in Trinidad... 16:26 and I was able to see a lot of the people 16:30 that we worked with, get "better" 16:32 you know... in quotes... and they come off of the drugs 16:35 and it was so difficult for me not to see 16:37 him and my brother be blessed by what we were doing... 16:41 so, I blamed a lot of what he was doing 16:46 on the drugs because I know when you use drugs 16:49 that messes up the whole thought process... 16:52 and a combination of that and wanting to see him 16:57 off of the drugs... and thinking that 16:59 if we could still minister... now all this time 17:01 we are ministering... we would be in Church on the stage 17:03 functioning and doing Crusades 17:06 part of the major crusades in the Country 17:08 we would be on the stage... and sincerely working for the Lord, 17:12 and what I would do... whenever I noticed that 17:17 he was not making an effort, in my honest admission 17:23 making an effort to stop using the drugs 17:25 I would not let him play for me to sing... not accompany me... 17:29 I would rather do solos, 17:32 I would just not... 17:33 I would turn the accompaniment, turn it down... 17:35 Why? because, 17:37 I just felt that if he was not making the effort 17:42 then, I didn't want him to be part of that particular ministry 17:46 that I was doing that day... because I want that ministry 17:49 to be honest and coming from a good place... 17:52 and, I guess, I could have been wrong sometimes 17:54 but I had to use what I could see and feel... 17:57 to make my decisions... so whenever I did accept an 18:02 appointment to sing or to perform 18:04 because I was in charge of the Junior Choir also 18:06 all the kids and everything... going out to perform 18:08 I would use my judgment 18:12 to decide if we would do that 18:14 performance or not... 18:16 that ministry or not at that point in time... 18:18 but that's how it went 18:21 for quite a while for most of the marriage, 18:22 I would decide that if he's not making an effort 18:25 if he is not 18:26 using the resources that I think he should be using 18:30 at this particular point in time... 18:32 so I would not go on the stage to represent what I know... 18:38 Right... you didn't want him before the people 18:40 kind of pretending to be ministering... 18:46 when he had the secret life, going on... yeah... 18:50 and that's understandable... so, let's look at this now 18:56 so, here you are, you're a mother... 18:59 you're a wife whose husband is in ministry with you 19:05 but, on the side... 19:08 he's got these women friends 19:10 that he won't let go of, and now, you're saying, 19:14 he's got a drug problem that he also is not letting go of... 19:19 Hmmm... hmmm... 19:20 and you're still trying 19:23 to kind of... make it fit... correct? 19:26 you're hanging in there, you're trying to make it 19:28 you're trying to put that square peg into the round hole, 19:34 trying to solve the problem, but, again, at what point now 19:39 do you say... it's... I'm done... 19:43 Okay, because I always believed that God could heal him 19:46 and I would pray like that... seriously pray... 19:49 do all I could to get it to stop... 19:52 I would tell myself, "if you could minister like this 19:56 and be so effective, with the drug problem 19:59 and whatever other problems we had, 20:02 could you imagine what a glorious day it would be 20:07 if he got rid of all these the female friends... 20:10 the problem with the female friends 20:11 I should say... not get rid of the friends... 20:13 but get rid of the problems with them... 20:15 and the drugs... how dynamic our ministry could be... " 20:18 because that was my aim... because, to be honest, 20:20 I haven't found anybody else who could play the chords 20:23 that I need for my song, 20:25 with the right mood and everything else... 20:27 I've tried numerous musicians 20:29 who some people may think are better than him... 20:32 but I get the... I specialize in singing hymns... 20:35 just arranging them... meditations and stuff like that 20:38 and the mood that I need, I haven't found anybody else 20:42 that could do it... and I guess, that was a kind of 20:44 of "staying point" for me... 20:49 I know some people say, they stay in a marriage 20:51 because of the children... for different reasons... 20:53 I think, one of the reasons why I stayed in the marriage 20:55 was because of that musical bond that we had... 20:58 Hmmm... hmmm... and then that musical bond 20:59 was just a musical bond for showing off... 21:01 it's a ministry that I totally was dedicated to... 21:05 and he stuck with the ministry 21:07 in spite of all that he was doing 21:09 never stopped going to Church, 21:10 my brother who was his best friend... 21:13 whenever he went back on the drugs 21:15 he would stop going to Church altogether... 21:17 but he didn't stop going to Church 21:18 he kept going... so I had... 21:21 I became an expert at covering up stuff... 21:23 and not letting people know... where he was 21:26 maybe the night before... but it didn't happen every time 21:29 but a lot of times when he had to perform, 21:31 I would have to go and get him 21:34 from the place where he was hanging out the night before... 21:37 and talk, pray, fuss, talk, pray, fuss, everything 21:42 whatever I had to do, and he would be right on target 21:46 to perform the next morning, but after a while... 21:51 I said, the Lord blessed him... let me put it that way 21:58 that the Lord worked a miracle for him... 22:00 and... he was delivered from the jaws 22:02 one day he got up and he said, 22:03 "Cheryl, I don't have any desire again... for the drugs" 22:07 and that was hallelujah for me 22:08 and I thought, 22:10 "Well, finally, after all the years... it was worth it... " 22:12 Did you seek counsel... We did... 22:16 did you go to pastoral counsel or anything? 22:19 what happened with that 22:20 Most of them were friends because... 22:21 we were always on the street performing... 22:24 most of our friends were ministers... 22:26 and I did go to a few of them, 22:32 and... when I look back 22:37 I don't think I got the response that I really wanted... 22:40 but then, who am I to say 22:42 what God wanted me to have in that point in time... 22:45 but they would talk to me, they would all talk to me, 22:47 and go into all the details of what should be done, 22:50 but to me... I didn't get the follow up 22:52 as much as I would have liked, that's me personally talking now 22:55 that I expected... I guess because 22:58 he was my personal concern, I would be happy 23:02 if they left everything and just came and solved 23:05 the problem for me, but I knew that 23:06 that's not how life is... so... and then, he was really one of 23:11 the best musicians around at that time... 23:13 and I always felt that they were more concerned 23:17 about getting his performance than really attending to 23:21 his spirituality... 23:23 it was more important 23:25 to get the Program flowing smoothly... 23:28 and again... I'm not condemning them... 23:30 but situations vary... 23:33 and when he did tell me 23:36 he was delivered from that, I was so happy... 23:41 and unfortunately, Satan put another female 23:46 right in position... somebody that also needed help 23:50 for him to help... and he started a whole new 23:55 friendship with this person... so, instead of getting 23:57 a result that I wanted... that I was hoping 24:00 and praying for... that... his coming off of the drugs 24:04 didn't bring us any closer... and at that point 24:06 I decided... "this is it... " Okay... and how long had you 24:10 been married... by this time? like 25... 24 or 25 years... 24:15 so you went through this... 24:18 this grueling up and down relationship 24:22 and even... it sounds to me... and this is not me 24:26 this is not me sitting in judgment of you 24:29 because the Lord knows I made mistakes too... 24:32 but... 24:33 it sounds as though you kind of enabled him to 24:37 like you tried to become friends with the women... 24:39 and all that... because you were trying to 24:43 hang in there... and trying to work it out... 24:46 trying to cope with the situation... 24:48 instead of setting boundaries... 24:51 if you had it all to do it over again... 24:53 what would you do differently? 24:56 I did set boundaries... but... 25:04 if I had to do it all over again... 25:08 the thing is... I don't really regret 25:13 what I've been through... I would not choose 25:15 to live that life... I would have chosen a totally 25:18 happy life with a perfect husband and a 25:20 perfect piano player... and just all romance and 25:24 Bible... but 25:27 that was not to be... 25:28 so, now I look back at my life... 25:29 I cannot say 25:32 that I regret anything... 25:33 I could have done stuff differently... 25:34 but the blessings that have come 25:41 out of this experience, sharing the experience, 25:43 and making me stronger... 25:45 when I got the first copy 25:47 of the book done... I signed it and autographed 25:51 in the book and took it to him... 25:53 and what I wrote on the book was... 25:55 "Thanks for the journey that brought me closer to Jesus" 25:59 and I meant that with all my heart... 26:01 when we finally separated... it was really hard for me 26:06 to deal with... and I was trying to figure out 26:08 "how could I... " you know... 26:12 "how could I get this whole package 26:16 that I went through for all those years 26:18 Hmmm... make sense of it... 26:19 the text Romans 8:28 "All things work together 26:24 for good to those who love God... 26:25 As I said in the book... I had a love/hate relationship 26:27 with that text for a while... because all things 26:30 mean a lot of things in the Bible... 26:31 and a lot of stuff that happens you can't even figure out 26:35 why it's happening and to you again... 26:38 I've been there in Church 26:41 all my life... with Crusades and then Church and 26:43 worshipping and praising and doing ministry 26:46 and yet, I can't even have a comfortable, 26:49 happy married life... but... along the way... 26:52 we had a lot of fun... now, when you hear all these 26:56 problems you would think that in our house 26:58 there would be a lot of tension 26:59 but there wasn't... Hmmm... 27:01 I guess because of the blessings that God gave me 27:04 the kind of ability to just deal with the problem 27:07 on the spot... and forget it... 27:09 2 minutes after... I'd be laughing and talking 27:12 that's what we did... so if you ask my son 27:15 how happy he was... in the family... 27:17 he grew up in a happy home... 27:18 So, God has brought you through... 27:20 Yes... that's the bottom line... 27:21 thank you so much for sharing... 27:22 the name of the book is 27:23 "You can't pretend the Truth Away" 27:25 Thank you so much Cheryl for being with us... 27:28 I appreciate it... May God bless you... 27:29 Cheryl has shared some intensely, 27:31 personal information with us... 27:33 not because she wants to expose herself to the world, 27:36 but because she wants to proclaim the redemptive power 27:39 of Jesus Christ... if you're going through 27:41 repeated infidelities by your spouse, 27:43 turn to Jesus... ask Him for guidance... 27:46 He will guide you by His spirit... 27:48 Well, that's it for our Program... 27:51 thank you so much for tuning in... 27:52 we hope that you were blessed, 27:54 we hope that this information 27:56 really you can take and actually apply 27:59 the goodness of Jesus to your life... 28:02 Join us next time... 28:03 It just wouldn't be the same... without you... |
Revised 2015-02-25