Participants: Yvonne Lewis (Host), David Sanderson
Series Code: UBR
Program Code: UBR000104S
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00:01 Stay tuned to meet a man
00:02 whose life fell apart with drugs and prison. 00:05 Find out what God has done in his life 00:07 and how he's using his experiences to serve others. 00:10 My name is Yvonne Lewis 00:12 and you're watching Urban Report. 00:35 Hello and welcome to Urban Report. 00:38 My guest today is David Sanderson, 00:41 literature evangelist and man with a story. 00:45 Welcome to Urban Report, David. Thank you. 00:47 It's pleasure to be here. Thank you for coming. 00:51 You have a very interesting testimony 00:54 and I was told by Brian Hamilton 00:57 who met you and your wife 01:01 and both of you have powerful testimonies. 01:04 She's also on Urban Report this season 01:07 so I'm really happy to have both of you. 01:10 Let's hear about your journey. 01:12 How-- What was your childhood life? 01:14 Well, I was raised 01:16 as a Seventh-day Adventist in a Christian home. 01:20 Two parents, a sister, a dog, 01:22 just an average but Christian home. 01:25 I went all through church schools, 01:28 through grade 1 through 8 01:30 and then went to my freshman year 01:33 to a Christian academy, Thunderbird academy 01:36 and then I was asked 01:37 not to come back to Thunderbird academy 01:39 because my lifestyle had already 01:42 taken a turn for the worse 01:44 and... but I had-- 01:46 I was involved before that happened. 01:47 I was involved with pathfinders, 01:48 my parents are active in the church and just... 01:51 it is really a normal Christian family 01:54 and you wouldn't think where I went, 01:56 I would come out of that but I did. 01:58 So what happened? 02:00 Well, I have a really, I know now as I look back, 02:03 I have a really addictive personality 02:06 and I can remember when I was little, 02:07 my mom would pass out a piece of candy or something 02:10 and she give me one but one was never enough 02:14 and so I would go in 02:16 and she always had candy hidden all over the house. 02:18 And I'd go start going through 02:20 her drawers and stuff and finding candy 02:22 and then I also knew she had change 02:24 in her purse because of church. 02:26 So I would start going in her purse 02:28 and stealing the change, 02:31 run down to the store and buy candy 02:33 and then eat it up real quick and come home. 02:35 And I didn't realize what that was 02:37 but I do now that it was just, I can never get enough, 02:40 it was my addictive personality. 02:42 So then after that, and my mother was a nurse 02:45 and we had, and at that time, 02:49 the doctor would do house calls and if he had to call her, 02:52 she would have medication at the house. 02:54 So at a real young age, I was 12 at the time, 02:57 and I started hanging out with other Christian kids 03:01 that were about four years older 03:03 but I started taking prescription pain pills 03:05 and just to try to keep up with these guys 03:09 and show them that I was cool 03:11 and, you know, I could hang with them 03:13 and at that time I had gotten-- 03:16 I'd been arrested for shoplifting 03:18 at the age of 12. 03:19 So at 12 years, my life really 03:22 it took a dive for the downhill. 03:24 So it took a dive when you-- 03:29 were you hanging with the wrong kids? 03:32 What actually kind of pulled you into that-- 03:34 into that lifestyle, you think? 03:36 Well, I don't want to put blame on the kids, on the older kids, 03:40 they were just being the older kids 03:42 that they were, I was just trying to impress them 03:45 so I could hang with them and to this day, 03:48 I don't blame them for anything because it was my choices. 03:51 Bottom line, it was the choices that I made 03:54 that ended me up the road that I chose. 03:57 But also, you know, by that time, 03:59 by the time I was 12, I knew that stealing was wrong. 04:03 I'd actually even stolen some money out of our church. 04:07 I used to go mow the yards and take care of the yards 04:09 and there was money inside, 04:11 some tithe money that was inside. 04:14 And I had taken that and went and bought candy with it. 04:17 And... so really I started stealing 04:20 and that really set me out looking for things 04:25 that I could just, you know, I didn't-- 04:27 it was all about me and it wasn't, 04:29 I didn't want to have to work. 04:31 I didn't like to earn money for it. 04:32 It was just, if I saw something I wanted it and... 04:38 so at 12, drugs, I was already doing drugs, 04:42 I started drinking, I started smoking 04:45 and that's when the academy asked me not to come back 04:48 because I was brining drugs, alcohol onto the campus. 04:52 They had a dormitory there and we were getting the kids 04:55 that were in the dormitory high and drunk 04:58 and so they asked me not to come back but... 05:03 How did your folks deal with this? 05:06 Because you came from a two parent home, 05:09 how was your dad dealing with you with these issues? 05:13 Well, my dad was a farmer 05:15 and he was gone a lot of the times 05:18 and I would usually always see him late at night 05:22 when I was going to bed or on Sabbaths 05:25 'cause we always went to church together. 05:27 So I guess, we're what they would call a latchkey child, 05:31 my mom wouldn't get off work till 5 o'clock 05:33 so I would be home with my sister alone 05:35 and I resented that because she was trying to, 05:37 you know, tell me what I had to do 05:39 and I didn't want her telling me what to do. 05:40 This is your older sister? 05:41 My older sister, yeah, bless her heart. 05:43 And so that was a problem and dad wasn't really around, 05:48 and really, my parents were in denial 05:51 because I'm 56 so this was going 05:53 on around, '70, '71, '72, 05:57 or actually '71 through '73 05:59 and I think a lot of Adventist parents 06:02 weren't really aware of the drug problem. 06:05 They knew it was going on in the world 06:06 but they didn't think it was happening in their church, 06:09 especially with their children and it really was. 06:13 It was out of hand. 06:15 It really is important for parents to stay connected 06:20 and sometimes it's hard because when you're busy, 06:23 if you're a single parent, 06:25 you're trying to do a job or two jobs 06:28 and take care of your children and if you're married, 06:31 but, you know, the father is-- 06:34 the husband is away or out of the light, 06:36 it's hard to really connect but you have to, 06:40 because your kids will get away from you if you don't. 06:43 Yes. 06:44 With all the things that are in society now 06:47 to pull them away from God, 06:50 if we don't stay connected to our kids 06:52 and stay connected to God, 06:54 we are really in trouble 06:56 and that's kind of what happened in your home then. 06:58 Yes. 06:59 Your parents really were not-- Doing good things. 07:02 Right. 07:03 But they were busy doing the things they were doing. 07:06 Right, and not knowing that their child was in trouble. 07:10 Right. Did you get caught shoplifting? 07:13 Yes, I got caught 07:14 by the police department when I was 12 07:16 and then I had gotten caught another time my dad 07:19 'cause I came home and all these cassette tapes 07:22 and I didn't like to admit, I said I just took them, 07:25 then he made me, took me back to the store and in person, 07:28 give these back and apologize 07:30 and that just-- that crushed me. 07:32 You would think that that would be enough to where 07:34 I wouldn't continue that lifestyle 07:36 but it didn't, it wasn't enough. 07:38 It just made me resent my father more at that time. 07:41 And but the drug abuse just escalated, 07:47 you know, you might start out just drinking 07:48 or you might start out just doing a little bit 07:50 of pain pills but by the time I was 16, 07:53 I was already shooting cocaine and doing that quite often, 07:58 doing heroin at that time and any kind of drug 08:01 that I could get my hands on, 08:02 I was already doing any kind of drug 08:04 that I could get a hold of. 08:06 And still living at home? 08:07 And still living at home. Did the parents know? 08:08 I had run away a couple of times 08:10 and but, you know, if they were to-- 08:12 if my parents were to ask me, "What's going on? 08:14 What are you doing?" 08:15 I was resentful, I was hateful, 08:17 I didn't want to talk to them 08:18 and if they did ever accuse me of something, 08:21 of course, I would lie and say, you know, "That's not me." 08:24 They actually found some syringes 08:26 once in the back one of my vehicles 08:28 and I said no and I blamed it off on my friend, 08:31 but, you know, in reality, it was mine. 08:33 But... they may have known 08:36 maybe I don't think they wanted to accept 08:38 that what was going 'cause my sister was perfect, 08:41 staying in school, staying in Adventist school, 08:44 was going to Adventist college 08:45 and then here was me and a total opposite. 08:49 The rebellious one. Very rebellious. 08:52 Yeah, yeah. Very rebellious. 08:53 And that, and that happens with, you know, siblings, 08:57 one can be like the goodie-goodie kind of kid 09:00 and the other one can be a bit more adventurous. 09:03 You were taking that to a whole new place though. 09:06 Interest would be putting it lightly, very lightly. 09:09 Because if you were 16, 09:11 and really caught up out there in hard drugs. 09:14 Yeah. How did the spiral... 09:19 how did the spiral take hold of you? 09:21 You started doing little things 09:24 but did you start doing it more often, 09:28 were you hanging out with the wrong people? 09:31 And I'm not blaming the people 09:32 but how did that spiral kind of just take hold? 09:36 Well, with drugs, the more you do, 09:40 the more shame, the more guilt you have 09:42 because you know right from wrong. 09:44 The more crime you do because not only 09:46 I was using but I was doing crime. 09:48 Also, I had already had a DUI 09:50 by the time I was 16. 09:52 I had already had a grand theft auto, 09:54 I'd had a burglary charge, 09:56 I mean, it just, it just escalated 09:58 but the high medicated took the reality away 10:03 and as long as I could stay high, 10:04 I didn't have to deal with reality 10:06 and I couldn't get over-- 10:08 Normally, now, I'm kind of a shy person, 10:11 with-- my wife is a social butterfly 10:13 but I'm more like a social wasp. 10:16 I would rather just beat to myself 10:18 but when I started getting high, 10:20 I could actually talk to people, 10:22 I could talk to girls and not feel inhibited by them. 10:26 And it started out as fun. 10:28 It always starts out as fun or just an occasional user. 10:33 But the next thing, I couldn't stop. 10:34 I was totally out of control. There was no stopping me. 10:38 Yeah and again, that's part of Satan's plan for you. 10:42 Absolutely. 10:43 To just give you a little bit and it's really fun at first 10:46 and it's just-- and you can control it. 10:48 "I got this." 10:49 Right, and then, little by little by little, 10:52 he just sucks you in and before you know it, 10:55 you're so out of control that you end up in prison. 10:59 Absolutely. 11:00 And that's what happened to you. 11:02 And it's funny because... when I was a teenager, 11:05 that's when I really started getting into trouble. 11:06 I didn't actually go to prison till I was 40. 11:09 When I was 21, I got married to another girl, to a girl 11:13 and we were both into drugs and alcohol 11:15 but for some reason, I thought that might, 11:18 I'd be able to settle down and that'll change. 11:21 But two weeks after I married, I had to leave the state 11:23 because the police were looking for me 11:25 because I was actually-- I had sold some stuff 11:27 that didn't belong to me 11:28 and so we moved to another state 11:31 and the drug abuse and alcoholism, 11:35 it continued and continued and continued. 11:38 Until where we finally both hit a bottom up there, 11:40 I got very abusive to her, physically 11:43 and she had threatened to leave 11:46 and take our daughter at that time. 11:47 Oh, was she a drug abuser as well? 11:49 Yes, yeah, at the same time. 11:51 And so we both got into the church 11:54 and we actually got into a Seventh-day Adventist church 11:58 in this small little town and for a couple three years, 12:02 we were actually in the church longer 12:03 but for a couple or three years, 12:04 I was actually clean off the drugs, 12:07 was an elder, was helping out doing sermons 12:09 and carrying on a normal life, so to speak, 12:14 and then, I hurt myself going down some stairs. 12:17 I don't remember exactly what happened 12:19 but I was issued from the doctor 12:21 prescription pain pills and I took those 12:24 and I picked up right where I'd left off and... 12:27 Wow. 12:28 Next thing I know, we had moved out of the state, 12:33 moved back to my parents' house 12:35 'cause, you know, we'd lost our house, I'd lost my job 12:39 and now my wife did take the kids 12:43 and we had two kids at that time 12:46 and divorced me, next thing you know, 12:48 I'm now in my 30s, I'm cooking methamphetamine. 12:52 I was manufacturing methamphetamine 12:54 and that's the road that got me going towards prison. 12:57 Praise God. 13:00 And you know, it's an interesting thing 13:02 that you would say praise God 13:03 and we'll explore why you said that. 13:05 But let's go back for a second, so you were married, 13:10 you had children but the drugs 13:14 and the alcohol just had such control 13:16 that you lost everything. 13:17 Mm-hmm. Including your family. 13:20 Where were you spiritually then, 13:22 when you lost everything? 13:23 Did you decide, "Man, I need God at this point."? 13:27 Or were you saying, "I got this."? 13:30 Well, in reality I never lost anything. 13:35 I traded my family. 13:37 I traded our home, I traded a career, 13:39 I traded my children for drugs. 13:44 We'll talk about that a little bit later 13:45 but when we were in the county jails, 13:47 the guys were always saying, 13:48 you know, I lost this, I lost that. 13:51 No, we actually made a decision and we traded 13:54 whatever it was that we wanted for our families. 13:57 And... but at that time, 13:59 I knew of God even having sermons, 14:02 even raised at in a Christian home 14:04 and having Bible lessons every week, 14:07 I knew of God but I didn't really personally know God yet. 14:10 And in AA, they have a saying, 14:14 you know, you white knuckling it 14:15 so those years that I wasn't using, I was night-- 14:17 white knuckling it, trying to stay sober 14:21 but it didn't take much to push me over the edge. 14:23 Yeah, those painkillers... Yeah. 14:26 For that pain that just got you back started again? 14:30 Yeah, it just brought everything right back. 14:32 Within days, I was right where I was when I left off. 14:35 So what happened after that? What did you do? 14:38 Well, when we came back to Arizona 14:40 and then she actually had divorced me 14:42 and taken the kids, then that's when I started, 14:44 I hooked up with some people 14:45 and started cooking methamphetamine 14:47 and my mom, bless her heart, 14:51 had been praying for me for 28 years 14:53 and I knew the Holy Spirit was working on me 14:59 because I would go out with my friends 15:00 and I was cooking methamphetamine, 15:02 we had a cooking operation in Arizona 15:05 and I was cooking it in different locations 15:07 and I thought I was invincible, I would actually cook 15:09 right across from the sheriffs department-- 15:11 Now for people who don't know 15:12 what cooking means, explain that. 15:15 I was actually making speed through a chemical process, 15:19 you would use flasks and heat and flames 15:21 and mix these chemicals together, 15:24 very dangerous operation, very, just the chemicals, 15:27 the fumes are just very deadly. 15:30 I know I did it at a friend of mine's house 15:33 and caught the house on fire. 15:35 I did that a couple of times 15:36 but 'cause you're just up for so many days, 15:40 it's not like you just you do alcohol, 15:42 you drink, you get drunk then you pass out 15:44 but speed, you can stay up for several days at a time 15:47 but you think you've got this but you really don't. 15:50 You really have nothing. Yeah. 15:51 And so yeah, I was manufacturing speed 15:56 and they call it glass at that time. 15:58 So you went-- were you using it first 16:01 and then you started making it? 16:02 I was my best customer, yeah. 16:05 That was a problem, I always thought 16:06 I could make money at it 16:07 but I couldn't, I was really just making it 16:10 so I could stay high all the time. 16:13 And actually, and I would make it for those around me 16:15 because as they would praise me, 16:17 as I would give them dope, they would say, 16:19 "Oh, you are the nicest guy." 16:21 It made me feel good but I knew what I was really like. 16:24 You know, I knew what was really going on inside. 16:27 And it got to the point 16:29 where the Holy Spirit was working on me so bad 16:31 that it's like the good angel and the bad angel, 16:35 once over here and your head's just going 16:37 back and forth till it was just driving me nuts, 16:39 I couldn't get high anymore as much as I tried to use. 16:42 Everybody else would be just gone 16:45 and I couldn't get high, 16:47 I knew something was going wrong. 16:49 So God really was stepping in and blocking that high. 16:52 He did, He did. He stepped right in. 16:54 Wow, so how did you end up in prison? 16:58 Well, I went out one day 17:00 and I just ran out into the woods 17:02 and I cried out to God 17:04 and I just talked to him like He was right there. 17:07 I didn't know that I was doing it 17:09 but I was crying and I just said, 17:10 "I can't take this anymore" and I said, "I'm so thirsty." 17:14 And I went around a corner and here was a natural spring 17:17 in a culvert so I took a drink 17:19 and I knew, I didn't really understand it at that time 17:23 but about a week later, they raided our house 17:25 and I was arrested and that's how I ended up in prison. 17:29 Wow. Yeah, so that was His help. 17:33 You might not have felt it at that point, 17:35 you might not have realized it at that point 17:37 that was His hope and He was really 17:39 sparing you from, probably from death. 17:41 From death, yeah, or killing somebody else. 17:43 Yeah, I didn't consider it as help at that time. 17:45 Yeah, yeah. 17:47 Yeah, I thought I was thinking rehab 17:50 or something like that but not prison. 17:52 But not prison. 17:53 So you end up going to prison, what happens there? 17:57 What was life like for you in prison? 18:00 Prison to me was it was very scary. 18:04 I'd always been able to talk my way out of trouble 18:07 whether it was, in jail, I could get bailed out 18:10 or I could leave to another city or I could run, 18:13 I didn't have to deal with my own consequences 18:16 'cause I had been doing crime for so long 18:19 so when that door finally shut and here I'm in prison, 18:23 I cried out to God and I cried out to God 18:25 every day and since then, every day even till this day, 18:30 I've cried out to God. 18:31 Amen. How long were you in prison? 18:34 I had a six and a half year sentence 18:35 and in the state of Arizona, you'll have to do 85% 18:37 so I did about five years three months and some change 18:41 but that was plenty long enough for me. 18:44 It's what it took, you know. 18:45 A lot of people say, "Well, yeah, God wants me in prison" 18:48 but God doesn't really want us in prison. 18:51 He has a purpose and a meaning for us outside of prison 18:54 but it was my consequences that ended myself up in prison. 18:58 And when I first got there, I tried blaming my parents, 19:01 my sister, thinking how did I end up here? 19:04 There's had to been something that they did to me 19:06 when I was young, that didn't work. 19:08 I tried blaming and my second wife 19:11 'cause I had got married just before I went to prison, 19:13 tried blaming her, that didn't work. 19:15 I tried blaming all my friends that used to bring me dope, 19:18 that didn't work and then, so finally, I blamed God 19:21 and I kicked that around for a while 19:23 but that didn't work either. 19:24 And it wasn't until I actually 19:25 put the blame where it belonged, 19:27 was on me and my choices 19:28 and that's when my recovery started taking off. 19:31 You know, David, it's so interesting 19:34 that many times we do want to blame 19:37 someone else for our choices... 19:38 Absolutely. 19:39 But all of our choices have consequences. 19:41 Mm-hmm. 19:42 And God tells us to choose, make a choice, 19:46 but He wants us to choose Him and He wants us to choose 19:49 the better way, the more abundant way 19:51 and we contend to choose the dark side 19:54 and when we do, there are consequences. 19:56 Always. And it's always a trap. 19:59 It's like there's this trap that Satan has for each of us 20:03 so he identifies our weaknesses, 20:06 you say you have an addictive personality. 20:08 So he knows how to throw things your way. 20:11 Thankfully, we have the Holy Spirit 20:14 to help us to not make the wrong choice. 20:17 Amen. 20:18 So what did you do while you were in prison? 20:21 Did you get involved in ministries? 20:23 What did you do? 20:24 Well, I went to every recovery meeting that I could 20:26 because I didn't want to come back to prison 20:29 and I had a model that I kept telling myself, 20:32 live your life today 20:33 how I want to live it when I get out 20:35 because if I don't live it everyday 20:37 how I want to live later, I'm not gonna do that. 20:39 And so I would go to all church services 20:42 that I could go to and at that time, 20:44 we didn't have any Adventist church services 20:47 coming in there, but I went to them all, 20:48 I went to recovery meetings 20:50 and I actually started doing 20:53 Amazing Facts Bible studies with the guys. 20:55 I had as many as 30 guys doing 20:57 Amazing Facts Bible studies and-- 20:59 So you started running Bible studies in prison? 21:01 Mm-hmm, and we actually, 21:03 and we started a 12-step program 21:04 just with the inmates in there also 21:06 and the Bible studies were awesome 21:09 because I would have guys come up to me go, 21:10 "Hey, the dead really are dead." 21:13 And, "Hey, Saturday is the Sabbath." 21:15 And it was like, "Yeah, you're right." 21:17 And they were just so excited. 21:19 And oh, by the way, today is a special day. 21:22 Today is my 16th year anniversary 21:26 for being clean and sober and-- 21:28 Look at how good God is. He is good. 21:31 He worked that out so I could be here today. 21:32 Isn't that amazing? That is so amazing. 21:35 You and your wife are celebrating 21:37 16 years today, right? 21:40 Yep. Praise God for His deliverance. 21:44 Absolutely. For His deliverance. 21:46 So you're in prison, 21:49 you're helping other inmates to find Jesus 21:53 and so doing your walk is getting stronger. 21:56 Oh, absolutely. 21:58 And if you ever have problems, depression or whatever 22:01 and you want to get out of that, 22:03 one of the Adventist elders said, 22:05 started coming out and visiting me from Yuma, 22:08 he would say, "Go help somebody else. 22:11 Get out of yourself, go help somebody else." 22:12 Right. 22:13 "Do something nice for somebody else" 22:14 and the next thing you know you're not worried, 22:16 not thinking about yourself, 22:17 you're thinking about that other person. 22:19 That is really true. Yeah. 22:21 And not only by helping them, are you-- 22:25 you're really helping that person 22:26 but you really watering your spirit as well. 22:30 Your faith gets stronger because you're helping 22:32 somebody else to find the Lord 22:36 and it just means so much to you. 22:38 Oh, absolutely. 22:39 Which just makes all the difference. 22:40 Absolutely. 22:41 So how did you get out 22:43 and what did you do when you got out? 22:45 Well, when I was finally released, 22:47 I was released to my mother's 22:49 and she had introduced me to this girl 22:53 that knew an inmate that was my cellie 22:56 and she was giving Bible studies too 22:58 and she met him at church 23:00 and she had a homeless ministry going on, 23:02 feeding the homeless and we'd get anywhere 23:04 from a 100-125 people every Sabbath afternoon 23:08 so I started help in doing that. 23:10 And then, I helped her start, 23:13 we were managing halfway houses, 23:14 an Adventist halfway house after that and then, 23:17 wasn't very long after that we got married 23:20 and... to a wonderful woman. 23:23 She helps keep me on track 23:24 'cause I have tendencies to want to slip back 23:27 to that social wasp that I am but wonderful woman 23:33 and the interesting thing about my wife 23:36 now is that God picked her for me. 23:38 I picked my other wives and I'm not saying 23:40 anything bad about them, I'm just saying that God, 23:42 I included God in this decision and when you do that, 23:46 oh, man, He opens up doors of blessings that you just, 23:49 you don't even know that are out there. 23:51 That is so, so true and so great. 23:54 You guys can minister together... 23:56 Mm-hmm. 23:57 And that is such a wonderful thing 23:58 'cause she has some things 24:00 that she's dealt with in her past, 24:02 you have things that you've dealt with 24:04 and God has delivered both of you 24:06 and you've been walking in the light for 16 years, 24:09 which doesn't mean, you know, 24:11 we never want viewers to think that 24:13 just because you're walking with God now, 24:16 you never make mistakes. 24:17 Everybody make mistakes but we have a Savior. 24:20 When we sin, we have an advocate 24:22 with the Father, Jesus Christ the Righteous. 24:23 Oh, no. 24:24 My wife thinks I'm a knucklehead most of time 24:26 but she puts up with me. 24:28 She keeps praying for me, she keeps me in line. 24:30 What would you have our viewers to know 24:32 about what God can do in your life? 24:37 If I was to say something to a viewer 24:39 that's listening right now-- 24:40 Speak to the camera. 24:41 It would be that no matter how dark your world has become 24:46 because of the choices you've made, 24:47 God is in the business of taking darkness 24:50 and making it into light. 24:52 It doesn't matter how much crime you've done, 24:54 it doesn't matter how much drugs or alcohol 24:57 or whatever decisions you've made 24:59 and it doesn't even have to go to that extreme. 25:02 If you're suffering with depression, 25:03 if you're suffering with mental issues, 25:06 if you're suffering with-- wanting to commit suicide, 25:09 God can take that darkness and turn it into light. 25:13 And I learned that so well because 25:15 that's what he did in my life. 25:17 Praise the Lord, brother. 25:19 This is really, really been a blessing. 25:22 Our folks need to know 25:24 that God is still in the deliverance business. 25:27 That's what He does best. 25:28 What do you want to do with your ministry? 25:30 Where do you see it going? 25:32 Well, we do jail ministries right now 25:35 and in the state of Arizona, you weren't-- 25:37 as an ex-felon, I wasn't allowed 25:39 to get back into the prisons 25:41 but they started saying that we can, 25:43 so we filled out our applications 25:44 but because of the methamphetamine charges 25:47 that I had, I said I can't come into the state jails. 25:51 But they're reviewing my case again, 25:54 so I need everybody to pray for me 25:56 that-- they accepted Denise but they turned me down 25:59 but hopefully, we'll be able to get into the prisons, 26:02 we want to start a halfway house 26:05 at the community center where my wife is director of 26:08 and we just want to keep going in, 26:10 in the jail ministry and prison ministries. 26:13 It is so great that you and Denise can minister together. 26:16 How has that changed your spiritual life? 26:20 Oh, it's awesome having a partner 26:22 that's on the same page with you 26:23 and my wife is really a dynamic speaker 26:27 and when we go into the jails, 26:29 we just have such an awesome time with the guys. 26:32 They're not just inmates, they're brothers to us 26:34 and we go in, we laugh with them, 26:36 we cry with them, we worship together, 26:39 we sing, we read the Bible 26:40 and they just-- they just love us 26:44 and today, someone called me today as a matter of fact 26:47 and just wanted to let me know that he had gotten out 26:50 and we'd already knew that he had 26:51 but he want to know when church was 26:53 so he's hoping he can make it to church this Sabbath. 26:56 And that's what really makes us excited 26:59 when they start to coming to church with us. 27:00 Absolutely, that's what it's all about, isn't it? 27:02 Yes. 27:03 You know, it makes the whole thing just so worthwhile. 27:07 You know, how many people are coming to your meetings? 27:11 Well, to the church meeting or inside the jails? 27:14 We get an average of 20, 27:16 sometimes there's been 30 or more 27:18 but they usually let out about 20 at a time 27:20 and that's Sabbath afternoon, Sundays and Mondays. 27:24 We're so grateful for all 27:25 that you and Denise are doing on the frontlines in this-- 27:29 the prison ministry is so, so important 27:32 because sometimes our guys feel like, 27:35 and women feel like nobody's thinking of them, 27:37 they're forgotten. 27:39 But we know that God has not forgotten them 27:41 and He's sent wonderful workers 27:43 like you and Denise. 27:44 So thank you so much for being here. 27:45 Thank you. 27:47 And thank you for tuning in. 27:49 You know, it is really important that you pray 27:53 for people like Denise and David 27:55 that are really working hard for the Lord. 27:58 Well, that's the end of our program for today. 28:00 Thanks so much for tuning in and join us next time 28:02 'cause it wouldn't be the same without you. |
Revised 2023-10-24