Urban Report

From Prison to Prison Ministry

Three Angels Broadcasting Network

Program transcript

Participants: Yvonne Lewis (Host), David Sanderson


Series Code: UBR

Program Code: UBR000104S

00:01 Stay tuned to meet a man
00:02 whose life fell apart with drugs and prison.
00:05 Find out what God has done in his life
00:07 and how he's using his experiences to serve others.
00:10 My name is Yvonne Lewis
00:12 and you're watching Urban Report.
00:35 Hello and welcome to Urban Report.
00:38 My guest today is David Sanderson,
00:41 literature evangelist and man with a story.
00:45 Welcome to Urban Report, David. Thank you.
00:47 It's pleasure to be here. Thank you for coming.
00:51 You have a very interesting testimony
00:54 and I was told by Brian Hamilton
00:57 who met you and your wife
01:01 and both of you have powerful testimonies.
01:04 She's also on Urban Report this season
01:07 so I'm really happy to have both of you.
01:10 Let's hear about your journey.
01:12 How-- What was your childhood life?
01:14 Well, I was raised
01:16 as a Seventh-day Adventist in a Christian home.
01:20 Two parents, a sister, a dog,
01:22 just an average but Christian home.
01:25 I went all through church schools,
01:28 through grade 1 through 8
01:30 and then went to my freshman year
01:33 to a Christian academy, Thunderbird academy
01:36 and then I was asked
01:37 not to come back to Thunderbird academy
01:39 because my lifestyle had already
01:42 taken a turn for the worse
01:44 and... but I had--
01:46 I was involved before that happened.
01:47 I was involved with pathfinders,
01:48 my parents are active in the church and just...
01:51 it is really a normal Christian family
01:54 and you wouldn't think where I went,
01:56 I would come out of that but I did.
01:58 So what happened?
02:00 Well, I have a really, I know now as I look back,
02:03 I have a really addictive personality
02:06 and I can remember when I was little,
02:07 my mom would pass out a piece of candy or something
02:10 and she give me one but one was never enough
02:14 and so I would go in
02:16 and she always had candy hidden all over the house.
02:18 And I'd go start going through
02:20 her drawers and stuff and finding candy
02:22 and then I also knew she had change
02:24 in her purse because of church.
02:26 So I would start going in her purse
02:28 and stealing the change,
02:31 run down to the store and buy candy
02:33 and then eat it up real quick and come home.
02:35 And I didn't realize what that was
02:37 but I do now that it was just, I can never get enough,
02:40 it was my addictive personality.
02:42 So then after that, and my mother was a nurse
02:45 and we had, and at that time,
02:49 the doctor would do house calls and if he had to call her,
02:52 she would have medication at the house.
02:54 So at a real young age, I was 12 at the time,
02:57 and I started hanging out with other Christian kids
03:01 that were about four years older
03:03 but I started taking prescription pain pills
03:05 and just to try to keep up with these guys
03:09 and show them that I was cool
03:11 and, you know, I could hang with them
03:13 and at that time I had gotten--
03:16 I'd been arrested for shoplifting
03:18 at the age of 12.
03:19 So at 12 years, my life really
03:22 it took a dive for the downhill.
03:24 So it took a dive when you--
03:29 were you hanging with the wrong kids?
03:32 What actually kind of pulled you into that--
03:34 into that lifestyle, you think?
03:36 Well, I don't want to put blame on the kids, on the older kids,
03:40 they were just being the older kids
03:42 that they were, I was just trying to impress them
03:45 so I could hang with them and to this day,
03:48 I don't blame them for anything because it was my choices.
03:51 Bottom line, it was the choices that I made
03:54 that ended me up the road that I chose.
03:57 But also, you know, by that time,
03:59 by the time I was 12, I knew that stealing was wrong.
04:03 I'd actually even stolen some money out of our church.
04:07 I used to go mow the yards and take care of the yards
04:09 and there was money inside,
04:11 some tithe money that was inside.
04:14 And I had taken that and went and bought candy with it.
04:17 And... so really I started stealing
04:20 and that really set me out looking for things
04:25 that I could just, you know, I didn't--
04:27 it was all about me and it wasn't,
04:29 I didn't want to have to work.
04:31 I didn't like to earn money for it.
04:32 It was just, if I saw something I wanted it and...
04:38 so at 12, drugs, I was already doing drugs,
04:42 I started drinking, I started smoking
04:45 and that's when the academy asked me not to come back
04:48 because I was brining drugs, alcohol onto the campus.
04:52 They had a dormitory there and we were getting the kids
04:55 that were in the dormitory high and drunk
04:58 and so they asked me not to come back but...
05:03 How did your folks deal with this?
05:06 Because you came from a two parent home,
05:09 how was your dad dealing with you with these issues?
05:13 Well, my dad was a farmer
05:15 and he was gone a lot of the times
05:18 and I would usually always see him late at night
05:22 when I was going to bed or on Sabbaths
05:25 'cause we always went to church together.
05:27 So I guess, we're what they would call a latchkey child,
05:31 my mom wouldn't get off work till 5 o'clock
05:33 so I would be home with my sister alone
05:35 and I resented that because she was trying to,
05:37 you know, tell me what I had to do
05:39 and I didn't want her telling me what to do.
05:40 This is your older sister?
05:41 My older sister, yeah, bless her heart.
05:43 And so that was a problem and dad wasn't really around,
05:48 and really, my parents were in denial
05:51 because I'm 56 so this was going
05:53 on around, '70, '71, '72,
05:57 or actually '71 through '73
05:59 and I think a lot of Adventist parents
06:02 weren't really aware of the drug problem.
06:05 They knew it was going on in the world
06:06 but they didn't think it was happening in their church,
06:09 especially with their children and it really was.
06:13 It was out of hand.
06:15 It really is important for parents to stay connected
06:20 and sometimes it's hard because when you're busy,
06:23 if you're a single parent,
06:25 you're trying to do a job or two jobs
06:28 and take care of your children and if you're married,
06:31 but, you know, the father is--
06:34 the husband is away or out of the light,
06:36 it's hard to really connect but you have to,
06:40 because your kids will get away from you if you don't.
06:43 Yes.
06:44 With all the things that are in society now
06:47 to pull them away from God,
06:50 if we don't stay connected to our kids
06:52 and stay connected to God,
06:54 we are really in trouble
06:56 and that's kind of what happened in your home then.
06:58 Yes.
06:59 Your parents really were not-- Doing good things.
07:02 Right.
07:03 But they were busy doing the things they were doing.
07:06 Right, and not knowing that their child was in trouble.
07:10 Right. Did you get caught shoplifting?
07:13 Yes, I got caught
07:14 by the police department when I was 12
07:16 and then I had gotten caught another time my dad
07:19 'cause I came home and all these cassette tapes
07:22 and I didn't like to admit, I said I just took them,
07:25 then he made me, took me back to the store and in person,
07:28 give these back and apologize
07:30 and that just-- that crushed me.
07:32 You would think that that would be enough to where
07:34 I wouldn't continue that lifestyle
07:36 but it didn't, it wasn't enough.
07:38 It just made me resent my father more at that time.
07:41 And but the drug abuse just escalated,
07:47 you know, you might start out just drinking
07:48 or you might start out just doing a little bit
07:50 of pain pills but by the time I was 16,
07:53 I was already shooting cocaine and doing that quite often,
07:58 doing heroin at that time and any kind of drug
08:01 that I could get my hands on,
08:02 I was already doing any kind of drug
08:04 that I could get a hold of.
08:06 And still living at home?
08:07 And still living at home. Did the parents know?
08:08 I had run away a couple of times
08:10 and but, you know, if they were to--
08:12 if my parents were to ask me, "What's going on?
08:14 What are you doing?"
08:15 I was resentful, I was hateful,
08:17 I didn't want to talk to them
08:18 and if they did ever accuse me of something,
08:21 of course, I would lie and say, you know, "That's not me."
08:24 They actually found some syringes
08:26 once in the back one of my vehicles
08:28 and I said no and I blamed it off on my friend,
08:31 but, you know, in reality, it was mine.
08:33 But... they may have known
08:36 maybe I don't think they wanted to accept
08:38 that what was going 'cause my sister was perfect,
08:41 staying in school, staying in Adventist school,
08:44 was going to Adventist college
08:45 and then here was me and a total opposite.
08:49 The rebellious one. Very rebellious.
08:52 Yeah, yeah. Very rebellious.
08:53 And that, and that happens with, you know, siblings,
08:57 one can be like the goodie-goodie kind of kid
09:00 and the other one can be a bit more adventurous.
09:03 You were taking that to a whole new place though.
09:06 Interest would be putting it lightly, very lightly.
09:09 Because if you were 16,
09:11 and really caught up out there in hard drugs.
09:14 Yeah. How did the spiral...
09:19 how did the spiral take hold of you?
09:21 You started doing little things
09:24 but did you start doing it more often,
09:28 were you hanging out with the wrong people?
09:31 And I'm not blaming the people
09:32 but how did that spiral kind of just take hold?
09:36 Well, with drugs, the more you do,
09:40 the more shame, the more guilt you have
09:42 because you know right from wrong.
09:44 The more crime you do because not only
09:46 I was using but I was doing crime.
09:48 Also, I had already had a DUI
09:50 by the time I was 16.
09:52 I had already had a grand theft auto,
09:54 I'd had a burglary charge,
09:56 I mean, it just, it just escalated
09:58 but the high medicated took the reality away
10:03 and as long as I could stay high,
10:04 I didn't have to deal with reality
10:06 and I couldn't get over--
10:08 Normally, now, I'm kind of a shy person,
10:11 with-- my wife is a social butterfly
10:13 but I'm more like a social wasp.
10:16 I would rather just beat to myself
10:18 but when I started getting high,
10:20 I could actually talk to people,
10:22 I could talk to girls and not feel inhibited by them.
10:26 And it started out as fun.
10:28 It always starts out as fun or just an occasional user.
10:33 But the next thing, I couldn't stop.
10:34 I was totally out of control. There was no stopping me.
10:38 Yeah and again, that's part of Satan's plan for you.
10:42 Absolutely.
10:43 To just give you a little bit and it's really fun at first
10:46 and it's just-- and you can control it.
10:48 "I got this."
10:49 Right, and then, little by little by little,
10:52 he just sucks you in and before you know it,
10:55 you're so out of control that you end up in prison.
10:59 Absolutely.
11:00 And that's what happened to you.
11:02 And it's funny because... when I was a teenager,
11:05 that's when I really started getting into trouble.
11:06 I didn't actually go to prison till I was 40.
11:09 When I was 21, I got married to another girl, to a girl
11:13 and we were both into drugs and alcohol
11:15 but for some reason, I thought that might,
11:18 I'd be able to settle down and that'll change.
11:21 But two weeks after I married, I had to leave the state
11:23 because the police were looking for me
11:25 because I was actually-- I had sold some stuff
11:27 that didn't belong to me
11:28 and so we moved to another state
11:31 and the drug abuse and alcoholism,
11:35 it continued and continued and continued.
11:38 Until where we finally both hit a bottom up there,
11:40 I got very abusive to her, physically
11:43 and she had threatened to leave
11:46 and take our daughter at that time.
11:47 Oh, was she a drug abuser as well?
11:49 Yes, yeah, at the same time.
11:51 And so we both got into the church
11:54 and we actually got into a Seventh-day Adventist church
11:58 in this small little town and for a couple three years,
12:02 we were actually in the church longer
12:03 but for a couple or three years,
12:04 I was actually clean off the drugs,
12:07 was an elder, was helping out doing sermons
12:09 and carrying on a normal life, so to speak,
12:14 and then, I hurt myself going down some stairs.
12:17 I don't remember exactly what happened
12:19 but I was issued from the doctor
12:21 prescription pain pills and I took those
12:24 and I picked up right where I'd left off and...
12:27 Wow.
12:28 Next thing I know, we had moved out of the state,
12:33 moved back to my parents' house
12:35 'cause, you know, we'd lost our house, I'd lost my job
12:39 and now my wife did take the kids
12:43 and we had two kids at that time
12:46 and divorced me, next thing you know,
12:48 I'm now in my 30s, I'm cooking methamphetamine.
12:52 I was manufacturing methamphetamine
12:54 and that's the road that got me going towards prison.
12:57 Praise God.
13:00 And you know, it's an interesting thing
13:02 that you would say praise God
13:03 and we'll explore why you said that.
13:05 But let's go back for a second, so you were married,
13:10 you had children but the drugs
13:14 and the alcohol just had such control
13:16 that you lost everything.
13:17 Mm-hmm. Including your family.
13:20 Where were you spiritually then,
13:22 when you lost everything?
13:23 Did you decide, "Man, I need God at this point."?
13:27 Or were you saying, "I got this."?
13:30 Well, in reality I never lost anything.
13:35 I traded my family.
13:37 I traded our home, I traded a career,
13:39 I traded my children for drugs.
13:44 We'll talk about that a little bit later
13:45 but when we were in the county jails,
13:47 the guys were always saying,
13:48 you know, I lost this, I lost that.
13:51 No, we actually made a decision and we traded
13:54 whatever it was that we wanted for our families.
13:57 And... but at that time,
13:59 I knew of God even having sermons,
14:02 even raised at in a Christian home
14:04 and having Bible lessons every week,
14:07 I knew of God but I didn't really personally know God yet.
14:10 And in AA, they have a saying,
14:14 you know, you white knuckling it
14:15 so those years that I wasn't using, I was night--
14:17 white knuckling it, trying to stay sober
14:21 but it didn't take much to push me over the edge.
14:23 Yeah, those painkillers... Yeah.
14:26 For that pain that just got you back started again?
14:30 Yeah, it just brought everything right back.
14:32 Within days, I was right where I was when I left off.
14:35 So what happened after that? What did you do?
14:38 Well, when we came back to Arizona
14:40 and then she actually had divorced me
14:42 and taken the kids, then that's when I started,
14:44 I hooked up with some people
14:45 and started cooking methamphetamine
14:47 and my mom, bless her heart,
14:51 had been praying for me for 28 years
14:53 and I knew the Holy Spirit was working on me
14:59 because I would go out with my friends
15:00 and I was cooking methamphetamine,
15:02 we had a cooking operation in Arizona
15:05 and I was cooking it in different locations
15:07 and I thought I was invincible, I would actually cook
15:09 right across from the sheriffs department--
15:11 Now for people who don't know
15:12 what cooking means, explain that.
15:15 I was actually making speed through a chemical process,
15:19 you would use flasks and heat and flames
15:21 and mix these chemicals together,
15:24 very dangerous operation, very, just the chemicals,
15:27 the fumes are just very deadly.
15:30 I know I did it at a friend of mine's house
15:33 and caught the house on fire.
15:35 I did that a couple of times
15:36 but 'cause you're just up for so many days,
15:40 it's not like you just you do alcohol,
15:42 you drink, you get drunk then you pass out
15:44 but speed, you can stay up for several days at a time
15:47 but you think you've got this but you really don't.
15:50 You really have nothing. Yeah.
15:51 And so yeah, I was manufacturing speed
15:56 and they call it glass at that time.
15:58 So you went-- were you using it first
16:01 and then you started making it?
16:02 I was my best customer, yeah.
16:05 That was a problem, I always thought
16:06 I could make money at it
16:07 but I couldn't, I was really just making it
16:10 so I could stay high all the time.
16:13 And actually, and I would make it for those around me
16:15 because as they would praise me,
16:17 as I would give them dope, they would say,
16:19 "Oh, you are the nicest guy."
16:21 It made me feel good but I knew what I was really like.
16:24 You know, I knew what was really going on inside.
16:27 And it got to the point
16:29 where the Holy Spirit was working on me so bad
16:31 that it's like the good angel and the bad angel,
16:35 once over here and your head's just going
16:37 back and forth till it was just driving me nuts,
16:39 I couldn't get high anymore as much as I tried to use.
16:42 Everybody else would be just gone
16:45 and I couldn't get high,
16:47 I knew something was going wrong.
16:49 So God really was stepping in and blocking that high.
16:52 He did, He did. He stepped right in.
16:54 Wow, so how did you end up in prison?
16:58 Well, I went out one day
17:00 and I just ran out into the woods
17:02 and I cried out to God
17:04 and I just talked to him like He was right there.
17:07 I didn't know that I was doing it
17:09 but I was crying and I just said,
17:10 "I can't take this anymore" and I said, "I'm so thirsty."
17:14 And I went around a corner and here was a natural spring
17:17 in a culvert so I took a drink
17:19 and I knew, I didn't really understand it at that time
17:23 but about a week later, they raided our house
17:25 and I was arrested and that's how I ended up in prison.
17:29 Wow. Yeah, so that was His help.
17:33 You might not have felt it at that point,
17:35 you might not have realized it at that point
17:37 that was His hope and He was really
17:39 sparing you from, probably from death.
17:41 From death, yeah, or killing somebody else.
17:43 Yeah, I didn't consider it as help at that time.
17:45 Yeah, yeah.
17:47 Yeah, I thought I was thinking rehab
17:50 or something like that but not prison.
17:52 But not prison.
17:53 So you end up going to prison, what happens there?
17:57 What was life like for you in prison?
18:00 Prison to me was it was very scary.
18:04 I'd always been able to talk my way out of trouble
18:07 whether it was, in jail, I could get bailed out
18:10 or I could leave to another city or I could run,
18:13 I didn't have to deal with my own consequences
18:16 'cause I had been doing crime for so long
18:19 so when that door finally shut and here I'm in prison,
18:23 I cried out to God and I cried out to God
18:25 every day and since then, every day even till this day,
18:30 I've cried out to God.
18:31 Amen. How long were you in prison?
18:34 I had a six and a half year sentence
18:35 and in the state of Arizona, you'll have to do 85%
18:37 so I did about five years three months and some change
18:41 but that was plenty long enough for me.
18:44 It's what it took, you know.
18:45 A lot of people say, "Well, yeah, God wants me in prison"
18:48 but God doesn't really want us in prison.
18:51 He has a purpose and a meaning for us outside of prison
18:54 but it was my consequences that ended myself up in prison.
18:58 And when I first got there, I tried blaming my parents,
19:01 my sister, thinking how did I end up here?
19:04 There's had to been something that they did to me
19:06 when I was young, that didn't work.
19:08 I tried blaming and my second wife
19:11 'cause I had got married just before I went to prison,
19:13 tried blaming her, that didn't work.
19:15 I tried blaming all my friends that used to bring me dope,
19:18 that didn't work and then, so finally, I blamed God
19:21 and I kicked that around for a while
19:23 but that didn't work either.
19:24 And it wasn't until I actually
19:25 put the blame where it belonged,
19:27 was on me and my choices
19:28 and that's when my recovery started taking off.
19:31 You know, David, it's so interesting
19:34 that many times we do want to blame
19:37 someone else for our choices...
19:38 Absolutely.
19:39 But all of our choices have consequences.
19:41 Mm-hmm.
19:42 And God tells us to choose, make a choice,
19:46 but He wants us to choose Him and He wants us to choose
19:49 the better way, the more abundant way
19:51 and we contend to choose the dark side
19:54 and when we do, there are consequences.
19:56 Always. And it's always a trap.
19:59 It's like there's this trap that Satan has for each of us
20:03 so he identifies our weaknesses,
20:06 you say you have an addictive personality.
20:08 So he knows how to throw things your way.
20:11 Thankfully, we have the Holy Spirit
20:14 to help us to not make the wrong choice.
20:17 Amen.
20:18 So what did you do while you were in prison?
20:21 Did you get involved in ministries?
20:23 What did you do?
20:24 Well, I went to every recovery meeting that I could
20:26 because I didn't want to come back to prison
20:29 and I had a model that I kept telling myself,
20:32 live your life today
20:33 how I want to live it when I get out
20:35 because if I don't live it everyday
20:37 how I want to live later, I'm not gonna do that.
20:39 And so I would go to all church services
20:42 that I could go to and at that time,
20:44 we didn't have any Adventist church services
20:47 coming in there, but I went to them all,
20:48 I went to recovery meetings
20:50 and I actually started doing
20:53 Amazing Facts Bible studies with the guys.
20:55 I had as many as 30 guys doing
20:57 Amazing Facts Bible studies and--
20:59 So you started running Bible studies in prison?
21:01 Mm-hmm, and we actually,
21:03 and we started a 12-step program
21:04 just with the inmates in there also
21:06 and the Bible studies were awesome
21:09 because I would have guys come up to me go,
21:10 "Hey, the dead really are dead."
21:13 And, "Hey, Saturday is the Sabbath."
21:15 And it was like, "Yeah, you're right."
21:17 And they were just so excited.
21:19 And oh, by the way, today is a special day.
21:22 Today is my 16th year anniversary
21:26 for being clean and sober and--
21:28 Look at how good God is. He is good.
21:31 He worked that out so I could be here today.
21:32 Isn't that amazing? That is so amazing.
21:35 You and your wife are celebrating
21:37 16 years today, right?
21:40 Yep. Praise God for His deliverance.
21:44 Absolutely. For His deliverance.
21:46 So you're in prison,
21:49 you're helping other inmates to find Jesus
21:53 and so doing your walk is getting stronger.
21:56 Oh, absolutely.
21:58 And if you ever have problems, depression or whatever
22:01 and you want to get out of that,
22:03 one of the Adventist elders said,
22:05 started coming out and visiting me from Yuma,
22:08 he would say, "Go help somebody else.
22:11 Get out of yourself, go help somebody else."
22:12 Right.
22:13 "Do something nice for somebody else"
22:14 and the next thing you know you're not worried,
22:16 not thinking about yourself,
22:17 you're thinking about that other person.
22:19 That is really true. Yeah.
22:21 And not only by helping them, are you--
22:25 you're really helping that person
22:26 but you really watering your spirit as well.
22:30 Your faith gets stronger because you're helping
22:32 somebody else to find the Lord
22:36 and it just means so much to you.
22:38 Oh, absolutely.
22:39 Which just makes all the difference.
22:40 Absolutely.
22:41 So how did you get out
22:43 and what did you do when you got out?
22:45 Well, when I was finally released,
22:47 I was released to my mother's
22:49 and she had introduced me to this girl
22:53 that knew an inmate that was my cellie
22:56 and she was giving Bible studies too
22:58 and she met him at church
23:00 and she had a homeless ministry going on,
23:02 feeding the homeless and we'd get anywhere
23:04 from a 100-125 people every Sabbath afternoon
23:08 so I started help in doing that.
23:10 And then, I helped her start,
23:13 we were managing halfway houses,
23:14 an Adventist halfway house after that and then,
23:17 wasn't very long after that we got married
23:20 and... to a wonderful woman.
23:23 She helps keep me on track
23:24 'cause I have tendencies to want to slip back
23:27 to that social wasp that I am but wonderful woman
23:33 and the interesting thing about my wife
23:36 now is that God picked her for me.
23:38 I picked my other wives and I'm not saying
23:40 anything bad about them, I'm just saying that God,
23:42 I included God in this decision and when you do that,
23:46 oh, man, He opens up doors of blessings that you just,
23:49 you don't even know that are out there.
23:51 That is so, so true and so great.
23:54 You guys can minister together...
23:56 Mm-hmm.
23:57 And that is such a wonderful thing
23:58 'cause she has some things
24:00 that she's dealt with in her past,
24:02 you have things that you've dealt with
24:04 and God has delivered both of you
24:06 and you've been walking in the light for 16 years,
24:09 which doesn't mean, you know,
24:11 we never want viewers to think that
24:13 just because you're walking with God now,
24:16 you never make mistakes.
24:17 Everybody make mistakes but we have a Savior.
24:20 When we sin, we have an advocate
24:22 with the Father, Jesus Christ the Righteous.
24:23 Oh, no.
24:24 My wife thinks I'm a knucklehead most of time
24:26 but she puts up with me.
24:28 She keeps praying for me, she keeps me in line.
24:30 What would you have our viewers to know
24:32 about what God can do in your life?
24:37 If I was to say something to a viewer
24:39 that's listening right now--
24:40 Speak to the camera.
24:41 It would be that no matter how dark your world has become
24:46 because of the choices you've made,
24:47 God is in the business of taking darkness
24:50 and making it into light.
24:52 It doesn't matter how much crime you've done,
24:54 it doesn't matter how much drugs or alcohol
24:57 or whatever decisions you've made
24:59 and it doesn't even have to go to that extreme.
25:02 If you're suffering with depression,
25:03 if you're suffering with mental issues,
25:06 if you're suffering with-- wanting to commit suicide,
25:09 God can take that darkness and turn it into light.
25:13 And I learned that so well because
25:15 that's what he did in my life.
25:17 Praise the Lord, brother.
25:19 This is really, really been a blessing.
25:22 Our folks need to know
25:24 that God is still in the deliverance business.
25:27 That's what He does best.
25:28 What do you want to do with your ministry?
25:30 Where do you see it going?
25:32 Well, we do jail ministries right now
25:35 and in the state of Arizona, you weren't--
25:37 as an ex-felon, I wasn't allowed
25:39 to get back into the prisons
25:41 but they started saying that we can,
25:43 so we filled out our applications
25:44 but because of the methamphetamine charges
25:47 that I had, I said I can't come into the state jails.
25:51 But they're reviewing my case again,
25:54 so I need everybody to pray for me
25:56 that-- they accepted Denise but they turned me down
25:59 but hopefully, we'll be able to get into the prisons,
26:02 we want to start a halfway house
26:05 at the community center where my wife is director of
26:08 and we just want to keep going in,
26:10 in the jail ministry and prison ministries.
26:13 It is so great that you and Denise can minister together.
26:16 How has that changed your spiritual life?
26:20 Oh, it's awesome having a partner
26:22 that's on the same page with you
26:23 and my wife is really a dynamic speaker
26:27 and when we go into the jails,
26:29 we just have such an awesome time with the guys.
26:32 They're not just inmates, they're brothers to us
26:34 and we go in, we laugh with them,
26:36 we cry with them, we worship together,
26:39 we sing, we read the Bible
26:40 and they just-- they just love us
26:44 and today, someone called me today as a matter of fact
26:47 and just wanted to let me know that he had gotten out
26:50 and we'd already knew that he had
26:51 but he want to know when church was
26:53 so he's hoping he can make it to church this Sabbath.
26:56 And that's what really makes us excited
26:59 when they start to coming to church with us.
27:00 Absolutely, that's what it's all about, isn't it?
27:02 Yes.
27:03 You know, it makes the whole thing just so worthwhile.
27:07 You know, how many people are coming to your meetings?
27:11 Well, to the church meeting or inside the jails?
27:14 We get an average of 20,
27:16 sometimes there's been 30 or more
27:18 but they usually let out about 20 at a time
27:20 and that's Sabbath afternoon, Sundays and Mondays.
27:24 We're so grateful for all
27:25 that you and Denise are doing on the frontlines in this--
27:29 the prison ministry is so, so important
27:32 because sometimes our guys feel like,
27:35 and women feel like nobody's thinking of them,
27:37 they're forgotten.
27:39 But we know that God has not forgotten them
27:41 and He's sent wonderful workers
27:43 like you and Denise.
27:44 So thank you so much for being here.
27:45 Thank you.
27:47 And thank you for tuning in.
27:49 You know, it is really important that you pray
27:53 for people like Denise and David
27:55 that are really working hard for the Lord.
27:58 Well, that's the end of our program for today.
28:00 Thanks so much for tuning in and join us next time
28:02 'cause it wouldn't be the same without you.


Revised 2023-10-24