Participants: Yvonne Lewis (Host), Lydia Muwanga, Peter Kibanyi
Series Code: UBR
Program Code: UBR000105S
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00:01 Do you want to learn about an innovative program
00:03 that grabs at your heartstrings? 00:05 Well, stay tuned to hear all about it. 00:07 My name is Yvonne Lewis 00:08 and you are watching Urban Report. 00:31 Hello and welcome to Urban Report. 00:34 My guests today are 00:35 Lydia Muwanga and Peter Kibanyi, 00:37 co-directors of 1HeartArt. 00:40 Welcome to Urban Report, Lydia and Peter. 00:42 Thank you so much for having us. 00:44 Oh, you are so welcome. Thank you. 00:45 To God be the glory for being here. 00:47 Amen. Amen. 00:48 God is so good because He always 00:51 just puts people together and orchestrates things 00:54 and it's such a blessing. 00:56 I met you guys when Jason, my assistant/son 01:01 and I went up to Chicago to meet with some folks there 01:05 about getting into the prison system 01:08 and you were both there and you made a presentation 01:11 that so moved my heart that I felt like the Lord 01:15 would have us to bring you here and tell our viewers 01:19 just all about 1HeartArt. 01:21 But before we talk about 1HeartArt, 01:23 let's let our viewers know a little bit about both of you, 01:26 Start with you, Lydia. 01:28 Tell us a little bit about your background. 01:30 Yeah, so I am Ugandan-American, so my family is from Uganda 01:35 and I was born and raised in Colorado. 01:37 And I-- God has given me a gift of art. 01:40 From a very young age, I started drawing. 01:42 When I was 12, started taking it more seriously 01:45 but then I went on to college, I studied engineering 01:48 so that was on the other side, but then I got a chance 01:51 to study art in Florence, Italy, which was awesome, 01:54 'cause there was art everywhere 01:56 and just got to take it all and, 01:59 yeah, so I'm passionate about art 02:03 and I'm thankful to be a part of this. 02:04 That's awesome. What about you, Peter? 02:07 Thank you so much for that. My name is Peter, as you said. 02:10 I am born and raised in Uganda. All my childhood years, 02:15 I spent it in Uganda. 02:16 We moved from Uganda with my mom to Scotland, 02:20 lived there for about two years 02:22 and then we moved to the United States, 02:23 I've been in the US for 13 years. 02:25 I currently hold a Masters degree 02:28 in Molecular Genetics. I'm a scientist by background, 02:32 and I'm so passionate about second chances, 02:35 and also passionate about the love that Christ 02:39 has for all of us. 02:41 Yes, yes, yes, that's incredible. 02:43 So you're both from Uganda, 02:45 kind of, I mean, you're Ugandan-American, 02:47 but your families are from Uganda. 02:51 Did you guys know each other in Uganda? 02:55 Well, so I grew up here and Peter's been 02:58 my good friend for about 11 years, 03:00 so we got to meet through family friends. 03:03 That is great. 03:04 So how-- tell us about 1HeartArt, what is that? 03:09 1HeartArt, that's an organization 03:12 where our mission is to come together 03:15 as one community and transform lives, 03:19 especially, the inmates and ex-offender artists 03:23 and their families through art. 03:26 So you want to transform the lives of the inmates 03:31 and ex-offenders through art? 03:34 Why through art? 03:35 Why do you think that's important? 03:38 Well, I think art is so powerful, you know, 03:40 when you create an artwork, 03:42 it can be very therapeutic, and it has the opportunity 03:47 to actually allow people to work through a lot of trauma 03:52 'cause we know that hurt people, 03:54 hurt other people. 03:55 So I think a lot of people in prison have gone through 03:58 a lot of pain in their lives and art is such a powerful tool 04:02 to kind of process that and help them heal from it. 04:05 You know, we often look at music as a powerful tool 04:09 and we kind of neglect art. 04:13 Growing up, I didn't grow up around a lot of art 04:16 so I never-- and in my childhood, did not 04:19 learn to appreciate it until I became an adult 04:23 and then I began to love art myself 04:26 and I would go to people's homes and see art. 04:29 And now in my home, 04:30 I have pieces from different friends 04:33 because it means something to have something 04:36 from someone that you know in your home, 04:39 you know, an art piece. 04:40 So you are an artist, but are you, Peter, 04:44 are you an artist, too? 04:45 I am passionate about art, I'm not an artist 04:48 but it's meticulous how God called me to the ministry 04:52 and as Lydia was saying, 04:54 we've been friends for 11 years. 04:56 And God persuaded me. 04:58 I had made ungodly choices in my life. 05:03 This was at a time when I was, 05:04 I just finished my Masters degree 05:07 and just got married with my wife 05:09 and at that time, I was in New York. 05:11 God, through His love, persuaded me through His word, 05:14 leading me to the word where convicting me of things 05:18 I had done in the past. 05:20 At some time, He was leading me to Christ, 05:23 knowing that Christ did it all, paid it all, 05:26 but I was so much dwelling on the past 05:30 and it actually caused hurt, it caused pain to my body 05:34 because I was still in unbelief, 05:36 I was a Christian already 05:37 but it's amazing how God kept on persuading me in His word. 05:42 And in fact, in 2013, I got really sick, 05:45 I thought I was going to lose my life 05:49 and apparently, the devil was fighting to see 05:52 that I don't get to know this goodness of Christ. 05:55 And through His word, God slowly persuaded me. 05:57 I went to emergence home-- emergence rooms for like 06:01 every day for three time, like three times. 06:04 To the emergency room in the hospital, three times? 06:07 - Yes. Because-- - In a row? 06:09 In a row. 06:11 My body was really out of control and I get there, 06:15 the doctors say, "Peter, there's nothing wrong with you, 06:19 this is nothing serious, what's wrong with you?" 06:21 But in my body, I was not feeling well at all 06:24 and apparently God is a genius. 06:29 He was connecting us with my old friend to work 06:33 in the ministry that He had already shown out the vision 06:37 and He was putting me together 06:39 and in fact I was at the time living in New York 06:41 and I moved to Chicago where she was 06:44 and began working in a ministry and it's meticulous what 06:51 that Christ did. He healed my body. 06:53 Yes. 06:55 I didn't have to go to hospital again. 06:57 I started believing the word 06:59 He had been showing me all along. 07:01 And in fact He commanded me through Romans 11:31, 07:04 He told me, "Peter, still even you are in your unbelief, 07:08 I gave you mercy that by your mercy 07:11 others can also be served, 07:12 can receive mercy at the same time." 07:16 And I really believe that's why He put me 07:17 in this ministry to see that I carry that out with these, 07:22 the artists who are in prison and also who get out of prison. 07:26 And at the same time, He led me to the Desire of Ages, 07:31 page 324 where it talks about, 07:33 when a soul surrenders to Christ, 07:36 a new nature, one you contradicts the new heart. 07:40 And this is a supernatural nature 07:42 that no man can achieve themselves 07:44 but only through the divine power of Christ. 07:46 Yes, yes. So let's unpack this a little bit. 07:49 Sure. Let's go back a second. 07:50 So you had two things you mentioned. 07:52 Yes, ma'am. 07:53 Amongst other things but there are two things 07:55 that kind of caught my ear. 07:57 One is that you made some bad choices 08:00 and the other one is that you got really, really sick. 08:06 Now in those bad choices, is that what connected you 08:11 to the prison population? 08:12 Is that why you feel a burden for the inmates, 08:17 because of the bad choices that you made? 08:18 That's a great point. 08:21 God, I reached a point 08:23 where I didn't see life anymore. 08:26 And through God's love and how He persuaded me, 08:30 and this was a enemy fighting to see that 08:32 I don't get to know the truth 08:34 which is in Christ He wants us to have life. 08:36 - Yes. - Second chances. 08:39 And that's what I realized. 08:41 When I moved to Chicago, it all changed. 08:45 My outlook for life, I saw that I can now live again 08:49 because all the pain had gone away. 08:51 So this is the same thing, 08:53 you know, inmates can go through, 08:55 they can be hopeless in their prison cells 08:59 and I really believe Christ wants us 09:00 to reach out to those people. 09:02 And having gone through that, 09:03 I know exactly what it can mean. 09:06 Right, because now you have a point of identification 09:10 with them whereas before, you might not have. 09:13 Exactly. 09:14 But because you went through this situation yourself 09:18 with the bad choices and the illness, 09:22 now you can relate to those who feel hopeless 09:25 or those who just don't know 09:27 how their circumstances can change. 09:29 Yes. Exactly. Now you can relate. Exactly. 09:33 Isn't that amazing that God does that? 09:35 Yes, and I have a similar testimony of seeing 09:39 God's mercy in my life, you know, 09:41 I grew up in the Church but I struggled 09:44 with my faith in college. 09:46 I went to engineering schools, there's a lot of evolution 09:49 and I just really struggled, you know, believing God's word 09:52 and just believing everything that goes on in the Church 09:55 and everything and there was a point 09:57 where I walked away from God. 09:59 But God relentlessly pursued me 10:02 and he brought me back with open arms 10:04 and I saw that His blood, it covers all of my sins 10:07 and I'm so thankful to God for His mercy 10:11 because it's so sweet 10:13 and I want everybody to experience that. 10:16 So back in 2011, 10:19 I actually met somebody at a bus stop 10:21 who bought art from an inmate 10:22 and I really resonated with that because I'm like, 10:25 "Okay, I'm an artist and it's amazing 10:27 that these people are doing such, you know, 10:30 amazing things in prison, of all places," 10:33 and then also, I'm an ex-offender, 10:35 you know, I've never served time in prison, 10:37 but God has given me a second chance in my life. 10:41 Amen. So you mean you are an ex-offender 10:43 in terms of sin or you are an ex-offender 10:45 in terms of bad choices? 10:47 Yes, in terms of sin and bad choices, definitely. 10:51 Okay. Well, you know what? We all have made bad choices. 10:55 Right. 10:56 We are all sinners in need of a savior. 10:58 Amen. 10:58 And we all can, if we really look at it, 11:02 we can relate to those who are feeling despondent 11:06 because we've all, we all have a testimony, 11:09 a story, a place where we were that God brought us 11:13 from into a new place. 11:15 And so God is so amazing because He doesn't leave us 11:21 there to just languish, 11:23 He's brought you guys together to do this program 11:27 and one of the things I want to say to you guys 11:30 too is that I notice, 11:33 I get mail from inmates sometimes 11:35 and the artwork is phenomenal. 11:39 I mean, we're talking this phenomenal talent 11:42 that's locked away. 11:44 Now we know that people have made mistakes, 11:48 we know that some of them are in there for horrific choices, 11:51 we know that, but Jesus came to save 11:54 every one of them so no choice is too horrific. 11:57 Amen. Exactly. 11:59 And so I'm loving what you guys are doing. 12:01 So explain 1HeartArt a little bit to us. 12:04 Not just-- we know you want to transform lives. 12:08 What are the mechanisms by which you do that? 12:11 Yeah, so it also reflects in our logo. 12:15 Just to see-- everybody can see the logo there, 12:19 it's two hearts. 12:20 And we have a website, 12:21 we're going to put that up on the screen, too. 12:23 Tell us your website again. 12:24 It's 1heartart.org and the logo is two hearts, 12:28 so the red heart symbolizes Christ's blood 12:31 that was shed for us and then the two lines symbolize 12:35 the transformation that happens 12:36 after we allow God's blood to cover us 12:40 and then the blue heart symbolizes obedience 12:42 after we accept Christ as our Savior. 12:45 So that's really like the heart of the organization. 12:49 The heart of-- I love it. 12:50 And, you know, there's three main things that we do. 12:55 There's-- we have an art challenge, 12:57 so we invite the inmates to submit their amazing artwork 13:00 to an art challenge-- 13:01 - Okay, let's talk about that. - Yes. So-- 13:03 Okay, so how did that come to deed, the art challenge? 13:05 What made you decide to do that? 13:07 Well, we went to a conference, 13:09 the American Correctional Conference 13:11 back in January and I met some people 13:13 who did a contest around poetry and I was like, 13:15 "Wow, that's great." 13:17 And they got over a thousand submissions, 13:18 so I thought this is a great way 13:21 to meet the artists that way. 13:22 So the current art challenge is on the theme of hope, 13:27 so we're inviting inmates to submit artwork 13:29 on the theme of hope and they can submit it 13:32 through their family, so the prize money 13:34 actually goes back to the families. 13:36 Oh, so this is a way-- oh, this is wonderful, 13:41 this gives the artist a way to support his family. 13:46 Yes, because-- 13:47 To do something to bring something to them 13:49 other than the shame and the condemnation 13:53 that sometimes they receive. 13:56 That's wonderful. Right. 13:58 So the art challenge-- how do you get the word 14:01 to the inmates that this challenge is existing? 14:05 How do you get that word to them? 14:06 Yeah, there is a couple of different ways. 14:09 We go through wardens at prisons 14:11 and there is a lot of wardens that support the arts, 14:14 which is a beautiful thing 14:16 and then also, different channels like Instagram, 14:19 there are groups on there of prison wives, 14:22 Prison-- loved ones of prison inmates 14:25 and that's a great way to reach people as well. 14:27 And we also have partners like JPay 14:30 which is the gmail of prisons and they've posted about 14:33 the art challenge on their Facebook page 14:36 which has over 160,000 likes 14:38 so it reaches a lot of people that way. 14:40 Praise the Lord. That's wonderful. 14:43 What is your role in the art challenge? 14:46 Do you have-- are you-- 14:48 what are you doing with that, Peter? 14:50 Well, the art challenge is mainly, as she talked about, 14:54 but I'm all concentrated on the Penpal side. 14:57 Okay. Let's talk about that. 14:58 So we have the art challenge, this is one part of 1HeartArt 15:03 and then we have the Penpal. 15:05 Now the Penpal side sounds a little bit scary, 15:09 Tell us-- let's talk about that. 15:12 Why is mine scary? 15:16 Well, only because, you know, the first thing 15:20 that pops into mind is, 15:23 are inmates gonna know where I live? 15:25 Right. 15:26 Would they be able to come-- 15:27 not that anybody would hurt anybody necessarily 15:31 but that's one of the first things 15:32 that would come to my mind if I were hearing Penpal. 15:36 So explain that, explain that part of the program? 15:40 Sure. 15:41 This is, you know, we know that, 15:43 you know, inmates are in secluded locations, 15:47 sometime in points of no return, no hope 15:50 and this is where we give a opportunity 15:52 to the viewer viewing their artwork to write to them. 15:56 Words of encouragement, 15:58 words of hope and at the same time, 16:02 you don't have to be nervous because we have, 16:04 like, a "to do" "what to do" and "not to do" 16:06 when you're writing to them on their website 16:09 and at the same time, we've been to like 16:11 six conferences so far and we've gotten 16:14 150 letters written by enthusiastic supporters 16:19 of these talented inmate artists and ex-offenders, 16:22 so which is really being going fast, 16:25 so God has been blessing. 16:26 And at the same time we have a video we sent, 16:30 it's on the website, it's by Bamji. 16:34 Bamji is one of our inspiring pen pal. 16:38 He got a letter from one of our inmate artist, 16:42 he had written about how he found it hard 16:45 to forgive himself from the past acts. 16:49 And when Bamji read it, this was an opportunity for him 16:53 to reach out to him and write a word 16:56 of encouragement straight from the Bible telling him 16:59 how Christ still loves him and he can forget his past. 17:03 And it's all in the video on the website by Bamji. 17:07 So this is a program 17:09 where we are giving an opportunity 17:11 just to write a note, it doesn't have to be a letter, 17:14 just a note to these inmates and ex-offenders 17:19 to give them encouragement and hope and-- 17:22 And so they write the letter but it's through your website 17:26 so they remain anonymous, correct? 17:28 So they remain anonymous but yet the inmate 17:32 gets that word of encouragement? 17:34 Yes. So that's kind of a win-win. 17:37 Because there is no danger there, 17:39 there is no concern there on the part of the person 17:42 that's writing, but yet, the inmate can still 17:46 benefit from the feedback 17:48 and get just some kind of word of support and hope. 17:52 So that's a beautiful thing. 17:54 And they can be led to Jesus Christ. 17:55 That's the ultimate goal. Exactly. 17:58 So how many people have you thus far do you know of 18:03 'cause there might be people 18:05 that you don't even know about, 18:06 but how many people, first of all, is your program 18:10 reaching that you know of? 18:14 We're reaching-- you mean the inmate artists? 18:16 Yes. 18:18 We are right now in prisons in Indiana, 18:22 we are in Illinois, and as well as Florida, 18:26 and we are reaching to different artists. 18:28 Right now we have a list of around 15 artists. 18:32 But we know there's 10,000 inmate artists in the US. 18:36 Wow. 18:37 So as God leads, we'll be able to tap 18:39 into all of those, reach them. 18:41 Yes. Yeah. 18:42 And another one of the inmate artists that we met, 18:46 started writing to him last year, 18:48 just getting to know him 18:49 and he got out of prison in April, 18:51 and so we have another program called ArtStarter 18:54 and that's where we really help inmates transition 18:57 back into society. 18:58 So, you know, he got out of prison in April 19:01 and it really put us in that position to help him 19:04 with that transition 19:05 and he has totally changed his life around, 19:07 like, he so inspires me, he used to be super selfish, 19:11 that's how he described himself. 19:13 It's all about attracting attention to himself 19:15 through his artwork but now he is all about 19:17 giving himself back to the world through his art 19:20 and it's really inspiring, like, he is so focused, 19:23 he wants to go back to school and support his two children 19:27 and get his bachelor of fine arts. 19:30 So far we've gotten over 400 supporters 19:33 who bought his artwork and that helps him 19:35 reach his goals as well. 19:36 How beautiful is that. 19:39 Because we all know that the recidivism rate is so high. 19:42 You know, people come out of prison, 19:44 what are they gonna do? 19:45 How are they gonna support themselves? 19:47 What are they-- because many times 19:49 they can't find a job, things are closed to them, 19:52 so now they can use their gift 19:54 which they love doing, 19:56 use this gift to support themselves 19:58 and their families and not go back to prison. 20:01 Right, exactly. 20:02 I mean, that's tremendous. It gives them an income. 20:05 Right, exactly. 20:06 And the statistics are really shocking 20:08 as you just mentioned, 20:09 you know, out of every three people 20:12 that come out of prison, 20:13 two of them go back to prison within three years, 20:17 which is-- that's crazy, you know, that's-- 20:18 And their children go, too. Yes. 20:21 Their children end up-- It's a generational curse. 20:23 It's a generational curse. 20:24 The children end up going into prison, 20:27 their fathers or mothers have been there, 20:30 most-- usually, the fathers, but now we have statistics 20:33 that show that women are being arrested more now. 20:36 Right. 20:37 So this is really a serious issue and many times 20:43 I know for me and I'm sure for you guys, too, 20:46 at some point, you say to yourself 20:47 what can I do, like, what can I do to change things 20:51 and this is a wonderful program because this can be used 20:56 to transform hearts and that is wonderful. 21:01 So this is called the ArtStarter part? 21:03 - Yes. - Of the program. 21:05 So once-- walk me through the process, 21:10 walk us through the process, so someone, 21:13 an inmate finds out about 1HeartArt. 21:18 What happens? What do they do from there? 21:21 Well, the art challenge is 21:22 really the first point of contact. 21:24 Okay. 21:25 That's really where we want to meet the artists 21:26 and get them involved, see their art. 21:29 And we've gotten letters from people 21:30 all over the country sending us their art 21:33 which is awesome and then from there, 21:36 that's where we really want to connect them 21:37 with pen pals so that we can develop 21:39 those relationships with them 21:41 and then, God willing, lead them to Christ 21:43 through the Penpal program, 21:45 then after they get out, then that's 21:47 when we help sell their art, 21:48 So they could support themselves and their families. 21:50 That's great. 21:51 So when they are in the Penpal program, are you sending them, 21:54 how are they learning about Christ? 21:56 What are you doing? 21:58 It's a great question. 22:00 We're right now the, one of our artists 22:02 who got out of prison in April, when he got out, 22:09 we had a conversation with him, he is right now, 22:11 he is a Buddhist at the moment. 22:13 He is a what? He is a Buddhist. 22:15 - A Buddhist. - Yes. 22:17 And we're thinking of ways how we could have 22:19 a holistic measure of him, this is three sections, 22:24 the body, the mind, and the spirit 22:27 and I was able to get a survey given to him 22:31 which is measurable. 22:33 So we are able to see how he has scored 22:34 in those different sections and this is, he came out, 22:40 his spirit side of the section was the highest in the score, 22:43 so this gave us, showed us an inclination 22:46 that he is actually spiritually strong, 22:49 but he's yet a Buddhist. 22:51 But it's amazing from the conversation 22:54 we've been having with him. 22:55 How God is pursuing him through the spirit. 22:59 He reads the Bible, he loves the teachings of Jesus 23:04 and we believe as we continue on, 23:07 he will end up, actually sent out 23:08 some Bible lessons to him 23:11 which I'm waiting to get in return. 23:13 We believe that Christ is, 23:15 he ultimately will accept Christ 23:17 as if we continue, as he leads and continue doing 23:20 what he directs to do. 23:23 And at the same time from this survey, 23:26 one of his lowest score was the body, the physical body 23:30 and he was actually, he found out 23:32 he was slacking off on certain things 23:33 like working out so he was able to be motivated like, 23:36 "Oh, man, I need to work on this now also." 23:38 So it's showing us how it, 23:43 it's shown right before our eyes 23:45 how the holistic transformation is happening. 23:49 Yes. Specially in this gentleman. 23:52 - Yes. - Yes. 23:54 You know, 'cause well, I was never a Buddhist 23:57 but I studied eastern medicine that kind of thing 24:00 and there is that whole focus on the holistic person 24:06 but there is in our belief, too, 24:09 because we believe that how important 24:11 the physical aspect is, the emotional, 24:13 and the spiritual, so we are, 24:17 you know, we are holistic beings. 24:18 Exactly. 24:19 We just have to help people 24:21 to channel it properly into the right focus 24:25 and Jesus Christ is of course at the helm of all that. 24:29 So it's not, it's different, 24:33 but yet, he can maintain the idea 24:36 that we are holistic beings, let's just say Jesus Christ 24:39 has to be at the center of the whole thing. 24:42 And we totally agree with that because our vision 24:46 is to see them as whole individuals 24:49 and in every sense of the word and we really look to Jesus 24:53 as our example 'cause often times, 24:55 we read that when Jesus would heal people, 24:58 he would first forgive their sins, 25:00 then all the other types of healing 25:01 would follow after that. 25:03 So we believe that same thing. Like our highest goal 25:06 is for them to know Christ and then, 25:09 you know, all the other aspects we want to help them 25:11 achieve health in those ways as well. 25:14 This is such a great ministry to support 25:17 because again, so often people will think 25:20 what can I do to make a difference, 25:23 how can I change a life when I'm just, 25:27 I don't know anything about prison, 25:29 I don't know anything about. 25:30 Well, now this is a program that our viewers 25:33 can support and say, you know what, 25:35 even though I don't go into the prison myself, 25:39 I can support this program that helps to change lives 25:43 through art and through learning more about Christ. 25:48 This is, you guys are trailblazers 25:53 in that you're using their gifts, 25:56 That-- their God given gifts to help them 25:59 to move toward God and that is just a beautiful, 26:03 beautiful concept. 26:05 - Praise God. - Amen. 26:06 - Praise God. - Amen. 26:07 How long ago did this come into being? 26:09 How did you think of this concept? 26:12 Yeah, I mean, the idea first came in 2011 26:15 but we've really started working on it last year, 26:18 picking up, Peter joined last year so. 26:20 End of November. 26:21 Okay, so we're talking really new. 26:24 Yes. 26:25 And already, you're seeing lives changed. 26:28 Yes, praise God. 26:29 What do you think is the most profound 26:33 example of a life changed 26:35 that you can think of in one minute 26:36 'cause we're almost done. 26:38 I can't believe our time went this quickly. 26:41 Can you think of one inmate whose life has been 26:45 profoundly changed by your program? 26:48 Well, I could say right now one of our inmate 26:52 who's got out of prison, we've seen how Christ Himself 26:56 is pursuing him and He is doing it 26:58 through this ministry to see that he accepts Him ultimately 27:03 and the profound change we want to see is him 27:07 accepting and passing on the word of second chances 27:11 because of what Christ has done in his life. 27:14 God has been so merciful to us, He's given us a second chance 27:19 and so we can extend that mercy to others 27:22 and help them to have the second chance in life 27:26 because we can reduce the recidivism rate, 27:29 we can allow them to have some kind of dignity again, 27:33 because so often, the dignity is just taken away, 27:36 and so-- now they can support their families, 27:39 I mean, this can really make a huge difference. 27:41 So I thank you for being obedient 27:44 to what God has called you to do. 27:46 And I thank you so much for tuning in today. 27:50 Please support this ministry and let them know 27:53 that you're with them. 27:55 Well, that's the end of our program for today, 27:57 thanks so much for tuning in. 27:59 Join us next time, 'cause, you know what, 28:01 it just wouldn't be the same without you. |
Revised 2023-10-31