Participants: Yvonne Lewis (Host), John Turnipseed
Series Code: UBR
Program Code: UBR000119A
|
00:01 Stay tuned to meet a man
00:02 who was once a part of a major crime family 00:04 and is now proud to be in the family of God... 00:07 My name is Yvonne Lewis 00:09 and you're watching Urban Report... 00:33 Hello and welcome to Urban Report... 00:36 My guest today is John Turnipseed 00:38 Author of "Bloodline" 00:40 and Director of the Center for Fathering 00:44 in Minneapolis, Minnesota... 00:46 Welcome to Urban Report John... 00:48 Thank you so much for having me. 00:50 Oh, it is such a privilege to have you on... 00:54 I first learned about you from a radio interview 00:58 that I heard... with you talking about this book 01:02 and when I heard you... I thought, 01:04 "I have to get him on Urban Report... 01:07 I have to have you on Urban Report... " 01:10 this book is powerful and your life has been so amazing 01:16 you start the first chapter with the words, 01:20 "I shouldn't be alive today... " 01:22 tell us why you shouldn't be alive... 01:25 There has been just too many times in my life 01:28 where I should have died... there's... 01:31 people have shot at me pointblank... 01:34 people have done things to me... been in rooms with me... 01:39 with weapons and things that for some reason 01:42 they were not able to kill me for some reason 01:46 I've been put in a kidnap before, 01:48 and put in a trunk and taken out to the woods to be killed and 01:52 and the trunk opened and I just got out 01:55 and started running and they couldn't catch me 01:57 and just amazing, amazing things... 02:01 have happened in my life... 02:03 but I know that it wasn't luck I wasn't lucky... 02:08 I'm so glad you said that John 02:10 because so many people will use the word "luck" 02:13 "Oh, it was just luck... " no we know... 02:16 that it wasn't "luck" 02:17 that God had His hand on you your whole life... 02:21 so let's talk about your life, where did you grow up? 02:25 Southern Alabama... a place called Bottom 02:29 I grew up in a Christian family going to Church every single day 02:33 my grandmother telling me at age 5 02:35 that I was going to be a preacher 02:38 I had 3 or 4 Church suits that I wore every day 02:41 and I loved the Church... 02:42 and my father was a very good father 02:44 and took care of us and was a deacon in the Choir 02:48 and all kinds of just great things, 02:51 didn't know what hunger was grew up on a farm... 02:54 just being loved 02:56 and grandmothers on each side of me... man... 02:58 I had it made... 02:59 So you came from a two-parent household... 03:03 Yeah... your dad was very active 03:06 in your family... and very much a part of Church life 03:09 and you were going to Church every day... 03:12 not just on the weekends but every day... 03:16 Every day... and so, something happened 03:19 when you were 7 years old... tell us what happened... 03:22 my father left to come to Minneapolis, Minnesota... 03:26 to start a new life... he felt that Alabama was not 03:30 the place that he wanted to raise us 03:32 Martin Luther King had started some things down there 03:35 and it was very unpleasant... so he came up here 03:38 and a year later... we followed him... 03:41 and when we got here... he was not the same person... 03:46 my father who I loved so dearly had turned into... 03:50 the boogie man... 03:53 really... in my life... I was scared of him... 03:55 my mother was scared of him, 03:57 I'd never seen him raise his voice 03:59 and he was now... cursing... and had put some straightener 04:04 in his hair... and... had multiple girlfriends 04:08 all of this... I'd never witnessed before... 04:11 and he refused to go to Church and he cursed now... 04:14 he was a different man... 04:15 So what was it that happened in his life 04:18 that changed him so radically... 04:21 from the Christian dad that you knew 04:23 to now this man that you don't even know? 04:26 He came up here and fell into... with a group of people 04:29 he used to go to a Bar called "The Bucket of Blood" 04:33 I remember the name of it... 04:35 it was a little hole-in-the-wall Bar 04:37 and he'd take me with him sometimes 04:40 and I'd sit outside in the car waiting for him to come out 04:42 and all types of ladies of the night and all that 04:45 that was his "crowd" now 04:47 that was... the people that he hung around with 04:49 he was a tall, good-looking guy with a lot of charm... 04:53 and just started drinking... he had never drank before 04:58 and left the Church... the support system of the Church 05:02 was nowhere around him anymore the family... structure... 05:07 Isn't it interesting how... and we talk about this a lot 05:11 on this Program... but isn't it interesting how 05:15 Satan has his plan for you, and he just wants to destroy... 05:18 and he'll just take you from Point A to Point B 05:22 to Point C... all the way down... 05:24 because your dad left there one way... 05:26 and when you hooked back up with him again... 05:30 he was a totally different person... 05:32 because he had allowed himself to go down that path... 05:35 so how did that impact you? 05:38 That... it sort of... 05:41 it took the roof off of my house... basically... 05:44 I was a kid that was spoiled with a father's love 05:48 I was a kid that knew... I had never been spanked before 05:52 I was a kid that was just a good kid... 05:55 I knew who I was... 05:56 and I just wanted to please my dad 05:58 I wanted to please God and knew who He was... 06:01 and when I saw this happen to my father... 06:05 and I started praying every day that he wouldn't come home 06:10 I used to pray that he'd come home safely... 06:12 now I was praying that he wouldn't come home... 06:14 and praying that something happened to him 06:18 that he died... anything... to keep him away from us 06:22 the person that I loved so much, 06:25 now became the person that I just feared... 06:28 and he was like a monster... 06:30 and the spirit that got a hold of him... 06:33 and I just... I didn't want him in the way... 06:37 and that Satan had just taken my father away from me... 06:41 and with that... starts destroying me and my brothers... 06:44 Oh! that must have been so traumatic... 06:49 for you and your brothers... and your mother... 06:52 tell us about how your dad was treating your mom... 06:55 every single night he beat my mother... every single night... 07:00 I endured that until I was about 8 years 07:06 watching that... and the only time that I was away from it 07:11 was when I started getting into trouble, 07:13 so I would go to the Juvenile Center 07:16 I didn't want to be at home, I would rather be in jail... 07:19 rather than seeing my mother being beaten every night... 07:23 my dad... he was a jealous guy 07:25 and he would come around the house 07:27 and accuse her of doing things she wasn't doing... 07:29 every night he'd come there to check on his house 07:32 and beat her up... and then he'd leave... 07:34 and it just became... 07:37 it was the worst situation that I could ever be in... 07:40 my five little brothers were looking at me 07:42 like, "do something" and we used to have sessions 07:45 where we actually had planned to harm him... 07:47 and I was like 07:49 10 or 11 years old... 07:51 and these little guys were trembling 07:53 and wanted me to harm my dad, to stop him... and I couldn't... 07:57 and seemingly... the prayers I was sending out... 08:00 they were not being answered. 08:02 So how did that impact your 08:04 relationship with the Lord at that point? 08:06 I felt that there was no God... that it was all a trick... 08:12 that I'd been... fooled... 08:15 that I was a fool 08:18 for believing that there was a God 08:20 and that the only thing that was going to save me 08:23 was me... and I started looking for 08:25 people that could help me out of the situation 08:29 and I found them... in a very dark place... 08:32 I found a place full of pimps and drug dealers 08:37 and gang bangers... and they... sort of took me under their wing 08:40 and my dad was scared of them. 08:42 Isn't that something, John, how... 08:45 the young men in our culture often look to gangs 08:51 to kind of fill in the spot that the dad is supposed to fill 08:55 for protection, for that sense of belonging 08:59 and so, that's kind of where you went... 09:02 When a child... especially a young boy 09:06 does not feel safe... that's the most horrible feeling 09:09 in the world... and you will seek safety... 09:13 from anything that's available, 09:15 and if it's a kid that's the biggest bully 09:18 on the block you'd try to become his friend, 09:20 if there's a gang that's running the streets that you live in... 09:24 you will try to be a part of that gang... 09:27 so that you feel a center of safety... 09:29 it's the worst feeling in the world to feel unsafe... 09:32 Absolutely... and to... as I read your story... 09:37 I realized how much you had to deal with 09:40 just even going to School, you have to be concerned about 09:45 "is something going to happen on the way to School 09:47 something going to happen when you get out of School... 09:49 is something going to happen during the school day... " 09:52 you know, normal kids don't have to deal with that 09:54 you get on the bus, you go to School, 09:57 you have your school day and you come home... 09:59 but life for you was so tumultuous 10:03 how did you end up getting into the gang... 10:07 how did they enlist you into the gang? 10:11 I had a cousin that came up from Chicago 10:14 and he gave me my first preview into gangs and what they meant 10:19 and I idolized this guy... 10:21 and he kept me safe... 10:23 my dad, you know, was sort of leery of him... 10:25 and then the Chicago gang started coming up... 10:29 into Minnesota and I was fascinated by them, 10:33 these guys were not afraid of anything... 10:36 and then they had guns... 10:38 and they were like 12, 13, 14 years of age 10:40 just not just Chicago, but St. Louis and other... 10:44 even from Wisconsin... gangs had started filtering up 10:48 in Minnesota... and I started hanging around 10:51 with those guys... and they were into robberies 10:55 and all kinds of stuff... and when I turned 18... 10:58 is when it really materialized in my life 11:00 and I went to jail for armed robbery 11:03 and by the time I was 18... 11:05 I threatened my dad... made him leave my mother alone 11:08 I threatened him with a gun, I almost killed him, 11:12 I was just... out-of-control... 11:14 and my father was then scared of me... 11:16 I switched the table on him 11:18 and I got my courage from the gangs 11:20 and I got into prison... 11:23 and I organized the first prison gang in 1972 11:26 in Minnesota... and we just ran a prison for 3 years 11:30 everything that came into the prison... 11:33 if someone wanted it to be safe, they had to deal with us, 11:36 if someone wanted drugs, sex, whatever they wanted, 11:40 whatever dark thing they wanted in that prison... 11:43 we controlled... 11:44 just through the sheer force of the gang... 11:46 Without giving details... because it could be a problem, 11:52 how did you get 11:54 those kinds of substances into a prison... 11:58 it just seems so weird 12:02 that you can get anything you want... 12:04 you can get sex in the prison, how can you do that? 12:07 Well, we formed an Organization a Nonprofit... 12:10 that dealt with women coming into prison 12:15 to help prisoners... 12:17 that's the way we did it, so we... on a weekly basis 12:20 ten women would come into prison... 12:22 that I'd selected... and come to private meetings 12:26 in the prison... with inmates that I selected 12:29 to help us... and that Group was a Nonprofit 12:33 and I won't say the name of it, 12:36 because they're still alive today... 12:37 but they're not the same Organization 12:39 and we just infiltrated the Nonprofit 12:42 and made it... they brought drugs in... 12:47 they provided sex... 12:48 some of the Guards there... we had large amounts of money 12:52 while in prison because we controlled all the drugs 12:55 and everything so, Guards would take our money 12:58 in and out of the prison for us 13:00 gangs are very powerful 13:02 in their persuasion 13:03 especially when you have a captive audience... 13:07 Yeah, yeah, I'm sure... so, you were in a gang 13:11 not just any gang, 13:13 you formed the gang... 13:16 I formed the gang... and you were in prison 13:19 for how long... the first time? 13:21 Three and a half years... 13:23 And during that time, did you meet other prisoners 13:28 that kind of gotten more steeped into that kind of life, 13:34 where was your head at that time? 13:37 Well, during that time, 13:39 I was the leader of the prison gang 13:43 and so, everything ran through me... and at that time 13:47 they kept older prisoners in another prison... 13:49 away from us... 13:50 and so I had control of all the younger prisoners... 13:53 and a lot of them were from different States 13:56 so I learned a lot about different gangs 13:59 and different ways of doing things 14:01 from a lot of different places, 14:02 and the most powerful thing I learned about gangs 14:06 is that you seclude people from their safety net, you know, 14:10 if a person had a really good mother or something 14:14 you made a conflict between them 14:17 you made the people in the prison depend wholly upon you... 14:21 and the most important thing you did was... 14:24 was take away their safety... just take away their safety... 14:27 and if you give people power, a sense of power... 14:32 they will do anything to keep it... 14:34 and so, that's how I kept them. 14:36 That's a very interesting point because in a place like a prison 14:41 where you feel powerless... to have a sense of power 14:45 has to be kind of exhilarating... 14:48 it has to be... Well, absolutely... 14:50 yeah, that must be really kind of exciting to the prisoner 14:55 and almost validating... since everything is taken away 15:00 you have nothing anymore... really... 15:02 not even an identity... you have a number... 15:04 so, its got to be kind of exhilarating to have that 15:09 so, you go through that... 15:12 you come out... 15:14 and what do you do after you get out... 15:16 do you say, "I'm never going to be 15:18 a criminal again... " what do you do? 15:19 No, that's just the beginning... you figure out a way 15:23 that you can be a criminal and not go back to jail again... 15:27 you know, that becomes the goal, I met people in prison that 15:32 taught me things about Alarm Systems and 15:34 things of that nature... about the different sex trades 15:39 and things... and how to make money 15:42 doing bad things to people, and extortion and loan sharking 15:47 and all kinds of stuff... you know, 15:49 I learned that from guys that I was in prison with... 15:52 we had a lot of time to think about things... 15:55 so, when I got out... it was basically... making sure 15:59 that I had a "fake job" to go to... 16:01 and I had somebody say that I worked for them... 16:03 and I ran my criminal enterprise this time... with my family... 16:08 it was safer to work with family members 16:11 that we already had a connection with... 16:14 than it was to become strangers and since we had a large family 16:18 and a lot of the men in my family... 16:20 did the same thing my dad did... I don't know why... 16:23 it seemed like a spirit invaded our whole family... 16:25 and at one time... we were the largest gang 16:28 in the State of Minnesota, it was all... family members... 16:32 Wow! so you mentioned 16:34 generations and generational curses, 16:38 let's talk a little bit about generational curses 16:41 for those who are unfamiliar with that term... 16:43 explain it and then explain how that affected your family. 16:47 Yeah, generational curses... 16:49 it is something that follows each generation 16:52 sometimes you see generations of preachers in a family 16:56 their great-great-great-great grandfather was a preacher 16:59 and their father, and their everybody 17:01 was a preacher in their family, or a mechanic... 17:03 in our family... there were generations of guys 17:07 my father went to jail... and my father got shot... 17:10 and my father didn't take care of his kids... 17:13 I went to jail... got shot... didn't take care of my kids... 17:17 my son went to jail... this is the third generation... 17:20 got shot... my son got shot 17 times actually 17:24 and didn't take care of his kids now my grandson got shot at 16 17:29 has two kids and is doing 17:32 "Life without the possibility of parole" 17:34 so, if that ain't a generational curse, I don't know what it is 17:38 and it was the spirit of being criminals 17:40 we were raising criminals instead of kids... 17:43 you know, it was like, when my son, Johnny, was 12, 17:47 I told him, "You don't have to go to School anymore, 17:49 why go to school... when you're going to sell dope 17:53 that's what you're going to do... " 17:54 that "school is for the other kids... it's not for you" 17:59 the spirit of evil had just taken over my whole family. 18:04 So how did God deliver you from that? 18:08 Let's talk about how your life was transformed... 18:12 How did you find Jesus? 18:13 I found Jesus... you know... 18:16 a number of things that had happened 18:19 and I knew it was... I knew that some reason 18:22 there was something good in the world... 18:25 that kept saving me... that kept hovering around me... 18:29 and bad things just kept happening to me... 18:33 in my family... people were being killed... 18:37 my best friends being killed and finally I'm lying in a jail cell 18:43 and I had already went through 18:46 my 3-year-old son had been beaten to death by a guy 18:49 that I never met... that had run off with my wife 18:52 and so... and that was part of the lifestyle I lived 18:56 you know, "Well, you can lose another person... so what?" 18:59 but he killed my son... I don't know why... 19:05 and then I got out of jail and it didn't change at all... 19:09 and then I was in jail another time... 19:12 and my oldest son was shot... 19:14 and they had shot him so badly that he thought 19:18 his leg was still on and it was gone... 19:21 and he thought I was in the room with him... 19:24 and he was hallucinating and the hospital called me 19:28 in jail... to talk to my son... to tell him his leg was missing 19:32 and that's when it hit me... 19:34 that I was the most horrible father in the world... 19:38 that I had left my kids unprotected... 19:42 and that everything that I had taught them, couldn't save them, 19:45 from the people in the world that would devour them... 19:49 and I had been accused of 50 felonies... 19:55 and was getting ready to go to jail for a very long time... 19:59 and I just decided, you know, that was enough... 20:02 I just couldn't do it anymore, it was just... 20:04 something from my past... 20:07 that told me about God... 20:10 my grandmother, those teachings that I'd learned 20:13 at 5 or 6 years of age... 20:14 filtered into that room that I was in, 20:17 and I just got on my knees and just started crying... 20:21 and I don't know... 20:22 I can't tell you what I said to God... 20:24 because I don't remember... 20:26 but I know that I knew that He came 20:29 in that period of time... 20:31 and that He told me that it would be all right... 20:34 I don't know the words, and I got off of that floor 20:38 I knew I was saved... and I walked out of... 20:41 I ended up not going to prison miraculously... 20:44 God, again... Yes... 20:46 and started helping people 20:49 helping other fathers that had not fathered their kids 20:53 so God, you know, He... even though I denied Him, 20:57 cursed Him, walked away from Him and said that He didn't exist... 21:01 came... right when I asked Him to come. 21:05 Oh! that is so, so beautiful... because that's the God we serve 21:10 because when we ask Him... when we reach out to Him... 21:14 when we tell Him, 21:16 "I can't deal with this anymore, please, help me" 21:19 He hears that prayer... Absolutely... 21:21 and I just wish other people who don't know God 21:26 would just give Him a try... because there's nothing... 21:29 nothing like that... 21:30 so once you got up off your knees 21:32 you felt this sense of peace? 21:35 I knew that everything was going to be all right... 21:39 I was getting ready to be sentenced 21:42 for those 50 felonies... and I went out and bought 21:46 a house... and everybody thought I was crazy 21:47 for some reason... I just felt that I wasn't going to jail 21:51 but it was impossible that I would not go to jail 21:55 people were coming to my court appearances 21:59 because they thought that I would turn state's evidence 22:03 or become a snitch... because I knew a lot of 22:06 a lot about a lot of things... 22:08 and that I could have talked my way out of jail... 22:10 but I didn't do that... 22:11 I just threw myself at the mercy of the Court because 22:14 I don't recommend it for everybody... but... 22:17 I knew that God had me... 22:19 and that even if I had gone to jail... 22:21 that I would be okay... 22:22 and the judge just changed his mind... 22:24 and didn't send me to jail... he was a Christian guy 22:28 and we are good friends to this day... 22:29 20 years later, we're still good friends... 22:31 and he said, you know, 22:33 "God just told me to give you a shot... " 22:37 so he worked in my behalf, he protected me... 22:41 you know... men don't live to be 60 in my family 22:45 I'm 60 years old... that doesn't happen... 22:48 a lot of great things are happening in my life 22:51 and I know it is God... I know it's God... 22:53 Amen... let's talk about the Center for Fathering 22:56 and Urban Ventures... you are the Vice President 22:59 at Urban Ventures... tell us a bit about 23:03 what you're doing for fathers... 23:04 We work with about a 1,000 men a year 23:06 most of them coming out of prisons... 23:09 80 percent drug addiction 23:12 felonies in their past 23:15 that want to get back into life to their kids... 23:18 but we realize... that sending a broken father 23:21 back into the life of a child is not the solution... 23:24 we work with the father, with me, I went to treatment 23:27 because I was a drug addict, I had to do some other things 23:31 to make sure that I had steady employment 23:33 and things of that nature before I decided to start 23:37 convincing my kids that I had turned a new leaf... 23:41 and so, that's what we do with men... 23:43 and we go out and find them on the street corners 23:45 and we go into drug houses, we go anywhere that men are 23:49 failing at... and we reach out to them 23:51 and in my Community... 23:54 Jesus is known to be alive 23:57 and some of the guys call me, "One of God's boys" 24:01 you know, and so I can go into other gang territories 24:04 without fear... because they know I'm on 24:06 something good... and that good thing is God... 24:09 and somehow, in our Community... 24:11 everybody knows that God is around... somewhere... 24:16 and they might not know how to get to Him, 24:17 but they know He's around 24:19 and that's the tool that we use to get people to 24:22 change their lives... 24:24 That is amazing... 24:26 so, how do these fathers find out about your Program 24:31 are you kind of marketing into the prisons 24:34 and letting them know, 24:36 "Hey, we have this Center for Fathering... 24:38 when you come out" or how are you marketing it? 24:41 Well, through a number of things we have movies, we have books, 24:46 we do go into the prisons, I speak a lot in jails, 24:50 I do a weekly TV Show, in Minneapolis here 24:55 that's on Cable Network, we send 4 guys out every day 24:59 for 6 hours... to ride the buses, 25:02 and talk to guys about The Center for Fathering... 25:06 and the Bus Company allows us to do that... 25:10 they know that we are a Faith-based Organization 25:12 they know that we're connected to a Church 25:14 and they allow us to do that, because when we're on the bus, 25:18 young African-American men, especially, act differently... 25:22 you know, they don't cuss, our Slogan is... 25:26 "No need to cuss or fuss... you're on the peace bus" 25:29 and whatever bus we're on... the young guys respect that 25:32 and a lot of them know some of us 25:36 or have heard of us... and they come to our meetings 25:40 like I said, a thousand men this year came at least 25:44 let me see... a thousand men came to at least 10 meetings 25:48 Wow! and tell us briefly 25:51 because we only have about a minute left 25:53 what do they learn in your classes? 25:56 It's all Character Development, and teaching them how to 26:00 apply for a job and get a job, and why a job is important 26:04 and why a good life is important... 26:06 if the good character of a man is what defines him 26:10 and so, and we model that behavior 26:12 we make sure they have a mentor. 26:14 That is critical... a mentor is critical because 26:20 how do they know what to do if they don't see it modeled... 26:24 Absolutely... or if they don't have someone 26:26 to just kind of walk them through the whole process... 26:31 Amen... tell us, if you would, 26:35 in closing... why it's so important 26:38 for fathers to get it together. 26:40 If a child does not have that father in his life, 26:45 it's such a big leap for him to understand 26:49 how much God loves him... Hmmm... 26:51 and the father is the first path to God, you know, 26:56 we teach our kids how to be loved... 26:58 and how to be safe... and so that God can gather them in 27:03 especially when we're not around 27:05 and so, man, we serve an important role 27:08 God put is in our kid's life for a reason... 27:11 and we need to own up to that. 27:12 Yes... for sure... thank you so much 27:15 for being with us... I can't thank you enough... 27:17 may God bless you as you continue to serve him 27:21 and help other men to know more about God... 27:24 who is the ultimate parent... the ultimate father... 27:28 Thank you so much Brother John for being with us today... 27:31 Amen... All I have to say is, 27:33 "Look at God... " look at how He can take a life 27:36 that was headed for destruction 27:37 and turn it into one headed for heaven... 27:39 thank you so much for tuning in, join us next time 27:42 because it wouldn't be the same without you... |
Revised 2015-07-21