Participants: Yvonne Lewis (Host), Chris Da'Costa
Series Code: UBR
Program Code: UBR000159A
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00:01 From Atheist to the Air force to Believer,
00:04 stay tuned to meet a man 00:06 whose testimony illustrates the mighty power of God. 00:09 My name is Yvonne Lewis and I'm Jason Bradley 00:12 and you're watching Urban Report. 00:39 Hello and welcome to Urban Report. 00:41 Our guest today is Chris Da'Costa 00:44 a young man with an inspiring testimony. 00:47 It's so good to have you here with us Chris, welcome. 00:50 Thank you for having me. 00:51 Absolutely, today is the first time 00:55 that Jason and I are interviewing together, 00:57 and what happened was when we read... 01:00 and heard about your testimony, 01:02 he said, "I want to interview him," 01:04 and I said, "I want to interview him," 01:05 so we decided we're going to do it together. 01:07 Awesome, and this is also our first hour-long Special 01:12 so, you're a part of history, Dare to Dream History right now. 01:16 That's right. Thank you for having me. 01:18 It's really good to have you here, 01:20 you have such an interesting journey, Chris, because 01:25 one of the things that we say here on Dare to Dream 01:31 and on Urban Report, is that, 01:34 we know that God has a plan for us, Jeremiah 29:11, 01:38 and so, everybody has a purpose and a plan in this whole mosaic 01:46 and your journey has been so fascinating 01:50 and God's hand has been on you throughout your whole journey. 01:55 Let's start with your childhood, where did you grow up? 01:59 I was born in New York City and I was raised in Virginia 02:03 so my family... my mom and I moved around a lot, actually, 02:08 but I'd say for the first seven years of my life 02:12 I spent it in New York City. 02:13 And were you in a two-parent home or a single-parent home? 02:16 I was living with my mom and her father at first, 02:20 but, she was a single parent. 02:22 Okay, and so were you in a Christian family or were you... 02:29 did you know about Jesus, 02:31 so where were you in terms of your spiritual life? 02:33 Actually, I had never really heard of the name of Jesus 02:37 until much later in my teenage years, 02:40 my family was predominantly Atheist 02:42 with a lot of them being unbelievers 02:45 and so my grandfather had weird beliefs 02:49 and so forth he was more like... Agnostic 02:51 and my mother was an Atheist 02:54 and so, there was not much religion 02:55 or anything about Jesus in the home. 02:57 How does that... this is a... perhaps a naive question 03:02 but how does that play out like a home without Jesus Christ 03:07 there's no mention of God, there's no... 03:09 in fact there is no belief in God, 03:12 how does that play out in day-to-day life? 03:15 You know it was very challenging 03:19 not having heard of Jesus or the name of Jesus 03:22 or anything about church or anything like that, 03:25 it was a... you know... I think when you're young, 03:28 it's challenging looking back at the childhood upbringing 03:33 but when you're there in the moment, 03:34 in those upcoming years, 03:36 not hearing about Jesus in the home, 03:38 I think it's just... you get used to a way of living 03:43 and everything you see and... 03:44 are introduced to, you think is okay. 03:46 Hmmm... hmmm... 03:47 Did you hear about Jesus in other places though, 03:49 like... you didn't hear about Jesus in your home 03:52 but when you went to school or around some friends 03:55 did you hear about Jesus and did that spark a curiosity? 03:59 Not necessarily and I hadn't... 04:00 I didn't hear anything about Jesus 04:02 when I was younger from anyone 04:03 and my mother and her father and my family, 04:08 everything was so dysfunctional 04:10 and... no... I hadn't heard anything about God 04:13 at a young age, it wasn't until I was about 04:16 16 or 17, I actually heard about Jesus. 04:19 Really? Yeah. 04:20 And what were your thoughts 04:23 when you first heard about Jesus? 04:25 When I first heard about Jesus I actually was very antagonistic 04:30 I wanted nothing to do with the God of the Bible 04:34 or the God of the Christians, 04:36 at 17 years old, I became an Atheist 04:39 and I knew that in my younger years 04:43 having not heard about God, I didn't really care, 04:45 but when I was 17, I became a decided Atheist, 04:48 I said, "No, I don't believe in religion 04:50 I want nothing to do with the God of the Christians 04:53 and I believed, at that time, that Christianity was just 04:57 an "emotional-based experience" used to deceive people. 05:01 I want to come back to that in a bit, 05:05 but I want to go back to when you were a child 05:08 and what your life was like growing up in a home without God 05:15 were the morals high in your home, 05:18 what was going on in your home as a child? 05:21 You know, the morals were very low actually, 05:25 I have a relative in the family who is one of the leaders 05:30 over our family and he has been living here illegally 05:34 for over 22 years and he has one of the biggest 05:40 drug cartels in New York City 05:42 and so being in that family environment 05:48 I was introduced to drugs at a very young age 05:52 and when I moved from New York to Virginia, 05:56 I went back to New York every summer 05:59 to spend time with my family 06:00 and because of the drug trafficking, 06:04 I began to work with my relatives 06:09 and that was my way of kind of earning money 06:11 and also participating in the experience and so 06:14 I had that at a very young age. 06:16 What kinds of drugs were you surrounded by? 06:20 Marijuana, mostly Marijuana 06:24 and lots of different types of pills and so forth. 06:27 That's got to be... 06:30 I guess if that's what you're used to, 06:32 so to speak, as you mentioned before, 06:35 then that's kind of all you know. 06:37 Yeah. You don't know any... 06:38 any better than that, so that's the normal for you. 06:42 Yeah. And that has to be a... 06:44 looking back over it, and comparing your life now, 06:49 post AD, right, you know, after Christ and before... 06:53 and BC... it's got to be like... 06:55 such an amazing awakening 06:57 and appreciation for what you have. 07:01 Yeah. 07:03 So your family was pretty dysfunctional 07:06 Very, the last time I saw my father 07:09 was when I was about five years old 07:12 and so, not having a father in the home, 07:16 having just myself, being the only child with my mom 07:20 single working mom, and moving around so much 07:23 and also disorganization and my mom... 07:26 having to work two to three or four jobs at once, 07:29 to take care of her only child in Virginia, 07:33 I was at the babysitter a lot 07:35 and I was out roaming with friends a lot 07:38 and it was around 13 or 14 07:40 that I began to really dive down to a dark path. 07:43 And what happened then? 07:45 When I was around 13 or 14, 07:47 I had surrounded myself with so many bad... 07:51 such a bad influence of friends, and not only my own family, 07:57 but I also had really negative influential... 08:02 influentially-negative friends that were encouraging 08:06 Marijuana and encouraging promiscuity 08:09 and encouraging theft and so forth, 08:12 and so, having that atmosphere 08:16 with both friends and family, that was my lifestyle, 08:18 that I thought was okay. 08:20 That makes a huge difference, 08:22 whoever you surround yourself with, 08:25 the company that you keep is usually how you'll turn out 08:30 or usually how you'll become 08:31 because you're spending all your time with these people 08:34 and they're leading a certain lifestyle 08:36 and then you kind of begin to embrace that lifestyle. 08:40 It's interesting to me because 08:43 even though you didn't grow up in a home with Atheism, 08:49 you grew up in a Christian home, 08:50 it was kind of at that same age that you went astray too, 08:55 Jason went astray around 13 or 14 08:57 getting involved with the wrong people and all that, 09:01 what is it about that age... 09:06 that time of life that makes you feel like 09:11 you can kind of drift that way or kind of pushes you into that 09:16 what do you think, both of you, what do you think? 09:18 I think it's watching so much television and movies and 09:24 listening to certain types of music 09:26 it kind of shapes your mind, your thinking about yourself 09:29 and about the world, and so, 09:31 what Society had presented to me, 09:33 I accepted it, you know, lived... being a teen, 09:37 now it's time to party and have all this "supposed fun" 09:41 and go out and get intoxicated and hang out with friends 09:44 and do all these other things, 09:48 once I turned 13, I knew that 09:51 that's the life I wanted to live. 09:53 Hmmm... And so, yeah, 09:55 and my mom tried to place 09:57 a little bit of limitation on that 09:59 because she noticed I was going down a darker path 10:03 and so I actually, ran from home and left home 10:07 for a long time because of it as well. 10:09 So you ran away at 13? 10:11 I ran away actually at 16 10:13 and I wanted to get away completely 10:17 and my mother had married another person 10:20 and I didn't want anything to do with it 10:23 and... so I ran away to kind of do my own thing 10:27 when I was in high school. 10:28 I tried to run away once I didn't make it, 10:31 I didn't get very far, 10:33 so, I was like seven- or eight-years old 10:35 how old was I? No, I was like nine... 10:38 I was probably nine, but I ran away, 10:40 and I'm a huge foodie, and I forgot to pack food, 10:45 so I had to turn around, I had to go back and get food, 10:48 but I have to agree with you on 10:49 with the 13- and 14-year old mindset 10:54 when you're watching movies and listening to music, 10:57 everything that's bad pretty much is glorified 11:00 in the Media, so all the drugs, the women, 11:02 the money, the cars, the clothes, the fast money 11:05 and going about it in the wrong way, 11:08 selling dope or whatever... 11:09 it's glorified and they don't show 11:13 all the consequences and repercussions that come along 11:16 with that lifestyle, so you get caught with some Marijuana, 11:20 you might go down the road for a little while 11:22 or if you get caught with some Ecstasy 11:24 that's like an automatic felony 11:26 and you're going to go down the road for a little while 11:30 so, yeah, I've had my fair share of experience with that 11:34 and it's definitely because of the movies and music 11:37 and the company you keep. 11:39 True, so... 11:40 So you found that at that age 11:44 you got drawn into the dark side. 11:48 Yes. 11:49 What happened from 13 to 16, 11:53 where was your head, what happened to you? 11:55 I think I would say, from 13 to 18, 11:58 between 13 and 18, 12:00 I, having worked under my family's 12:03 drug trafficking system, 12:08 and having been introduced to drugs at a very young age, 12:13 I think between those ages, I went as far as possible 12:17 because I'll just add to that, when I was 17, 12:21 I realized that my mother had begun to search 12:25 for what she called "a meaning in life" 12:29 Hmmm... and I knew when I was 16 or 17, 12:31 when I became an Atheist, for sure, 12:34 when I realized that she was searching, 12:38 and she had gotten married to this man and 12:42 when I really wanted to get away from everything, 12:45 I wanted nothing to do with God 12:48 and I realized that she was searching and then eventually, 12:52 in her own experience, found God, 12:53 and I think it was in 2006 that she was working at 13:00 Wells Fargo Bank and... or Wachovia Bank 13:03 in Lumberton, North Carolina, 13:05 and an Adventist Pastor came through the drive-through, 13:08 and invited her to the church and 13:11 to a Daniel and Revelation Seminar and she went 13:14 and she was beginning to experience God in a new way 13:17 and she was eventually converted and during that time, 13:20 I was like, "No, I'm not having it, 13:23 I want nothing to do with God, 13:25 I want nothing to do with my mom and her experience with... 13:27 her church experience" so that is one of the things 13:30 what is kind of... 13:32 what I allowed to drive me away from the house in leaving 13:34 so between those years, 13 and 18, when I left home, 13:40 I wanted to go even further, I started skipping school, 13:46 in High School, I started doing more drinking, 13:51 doing more Marijuana, doing more drugs, 13:54 doing more pills, 13:55 having 20 different girlfriends at the same time, 14:01 and skipping school as much as possible, 14:04 and I... a friend of mine, his mother, 14:07 was very... she lived in a very 14:11 high SES Community 14:13 and she had a couple of homes and she gave us a home. 14:15 What kind of community? 14:17 A high Socio-economic Community. Oh, hmmm... hmmm... 14:20 And so, she gave us a house and she was gone, for the most part, 14:26 working so much and we threw parties all the time, 14:30 maybe twice a week and my weekends consisted of 14:34 Thursday through Sunday and so I went really far 14:38 and I was angry that my mom had accepted this new experience 14:42 and I thought to myself, you know, 14:44 "I thought she was an unbeliever how can she accept this... 14:48 this emotional, deceiving stuff in the Christian church?" 14:51 So your impression of where your mother was 14:57 was... she had gone off onto some tangent 14:59 and had gotten all emotional about "God" 15:03 this God that you were rejecting and how could she... 15:07 how could she go there, right, is that where you were? 15:11 Yeah, I was thinking, "How could she do that?" 15:13 you know... Hmmm... hmmm... 15:14 So I wanted, absolutely, nothing to do with it. 15:16 Wow! and how was she responding to you during that time? 15:21 She was very, very afraid, I have many friends right now 15:26 who are Christians, who have a hard time believing, 15:30 saying, "Chris, we can't see you doing those things," 15:32 they say, "You look like the kind of guy 15:35 who'd be in the church all his life, 15:38 sitting in the front pew from three-years-old," you know, 15:40 and so a lot of stories that I told them, 15:42 and they're like, "Chris, we can't picture" 15:45 but I told them how... you know, it's the power of God. 15:47 Yeah. And so in that time, 15:49 my mother was very fearful, very nervous 15:52 because she realized that I would... 15:56 she saw me going a deep, dark tangent in life and 16:01 to me, her accepting God... 16:04 I thought that was a dark, deep tangent, 16:07 and I thought, "She's... I don't know what she's doing," 16:09 and so, I began to visit Palm Readers, 16:12 I began to go even further, 16:14 just to get my mind from any realization, 16:17 get my mind off of any realization 16:19 that I needed something or that I was missing, 16:22 that I was lacking peace of mind or anything, 16:24 But you were searching, 16:26 if you are going to a palm reader 16:28 or you're going to an astrologer, 16:30 or you're looking for something, even though you don't realize 16:34 that that hole in your soul is a "God hole," 16:38 you're trying to fill it with... whatever 16:42 and you don't even realize that that's what's missing, 16:45 so you started getting into palm reading 16:49 and spiritualism basically, 16:53 and that... where did that lead you? 16:56 I mean, where was your head then once you were doing that, 16:59 where did that take you? 17:01 this actually began in North Carolina, 17:03 because we had moved from New York to Virginia, 17:06 to North Carolina, and in North Carolina, 17:08 where mom got married and 17:11 when she accepted Christ and so forth, 17:13 it was in North Carolina where I began to visit 17:15 palm readers and it's there when I left home, 17:18 so where it took me... 17:20 it took me to another world of confusion, 17:22 because I wanted to know my future, 17:27 and I wanted peace of mind, Hmmm... hmmm... 17:29 having left home, 17:30 being away from home for a long time, 17:32 living with a friend, doing all these things, 17:35 I realized, coming back from these parties 17:37 and coming back drunk at 3 or 4 in the morning, 17:40 from the different events, 17:41 I realized that sitting on my bed, looking up, 17:44 trying to get some sleep, that I was missing something 17:46 and it came to mind 17:47 that I would think about how my mother 17:51 was so happy all of a sudden, 17:52 and when I thought about her being happy and going to church, 17:56 I got even angrier and so, visiting the palm readers and 18:00 just even going further down, 18:02 it brought me more confusion. Hmmm... hmmm... 18:06 And we know that God is not the author of confusion. 18:09 Chris: True... Jason: So... 18:12 Chris: So... Yvonne: Yeah, that's got to be a 18:14 weird place to be in because you're searching 18:17 and the one place that you can get the answer from, 18:21 you don't want to go there, 18:22 you don't want to even think that that is the answer, 18:26 Chris: Yeah Yvonne: you're going to try 18:28 everything else 18:29 thinking that that's the answer. Chris: Yes. 18:31 So, this is from 13 to 18, you were in that dark place 18:37 just kind of... on another path 18:40 what happened at 18? 18:42 At 18, I realized that I was... I had gone so far 18:49 that with my friends and all the parties I was throwing, 18:55 there were many different instances 18:57 where I almost lost my life, 18:59 because of having the wrong friends, 19:02 and being at the wrong place at the wrong time. 19:04 Tell us about one of them. 19:05 One of them... 19:07 I threw a party for Prom weekend for my high school 19:16 and I was the kind of guy to... 19:23 go... I was the kind of guy to 19:30 I was in the wrong place at the wrong time, 19:36 doing Marijuana, selling Marijuana, 19:41 being in the wrong areas as well 19:44 and so when I threw these parties, 19:47 certain people would come to the events 19:51 that I hadn't invited, Hmmm... hmmm... 19:54 but they were people from these different areas 19:57 where I was doing these things, at the wrong time, 20:00 and so, and then being around certain types of friends, 20:03 Like drug dealers and that kind of thing? 20:05 Yes, and so, they'd come to my... the parties I threw and 20:09 it was there that I almost lost my life several times. 20:12 So, fights would break out and that kind of thing? 20:15 Yes. That's very... you know, 20:18 one of the things that people don't realize 20:22 is that individuals attract the... 20:29 people call it "energy" but it's spirits, you know, so, 20:34 if you're dealing with people who are walking in darkness, 20:38 they're bringing in those dark spirits, 20:42 so that room is full of dark spirits, 20:45 I remember I went to a funeral one time 20:49 of a hustler, he had been a hustler, 20:52 and it was like... 20:55 it was a Viewing at a funeral home 20:58 and I could feel... 21:02 he was a hustler and the room was full of drug dealers 21:06 and pimps and hustlers, 21:09 and I could feel the evil in the room 21:14 because they brought with them that whole kind of energy, 21:19 you don't realize that you attract evil spirits 21:24 or you attract heavenly spirits, you know, 21:27 and that's one of the things that I think, 21:31 when you're looking for associates, 21:34 don't go to the bottom of the barrel, 21:37 and hang out with people that are doing the wrong things 21:41 because they bring with them that whole energy, 21:45 that whole dark side so what was happening too is 21:49 the devil wanted to take you out 21:52 while you were in the midst of your sins 21:55 the devil wanted to take you out, 21:57 and I can imagine that your mother was praying for you 22:02 constantly... because if she had become a believer 22:06 and you were still out there as I know... from my son 22:11 who was still out there, that it's such a burden 22:17 that you just don't want your child to die in their sins 22:20 so your life was almost taken from you because, 22:26 really, because of your choices, the choices that you made. 22:30 Yes, and it wouldn't even been worth it. 22:31 I know what you're saying 22:33 about those dark evil spirits and all that, 22:36 I went to a club one time 22:38 and I used to go to clubs all the time, 22:40 I used to throw parties, like promote 22:42 and be a club promoter and stuff and I went to this one club, 22:46 and I was just... after that club, 22:49 like I wasn't even going to church but I was like... 22:51 "Man, I need to go to church after that... " 22:53 it just felt so evil, 22:54 like... everybody in there was on some kind of drug 22:58 or just drunk, 23:00 you got one guy in the middle of the floor 23:02 jumping up and down with his red rag and just 23:05 losing his mind, he was just off, 23:08 I don't know what kind of drug he was on 23:11 but it was that club, 23:13 somebody has been stabbed in that club 23:15 there's... I just felt like I needed to go to church. 23:18 At what point, for you, 23:22 did you transition out of the drugs and that lifestyle? 23:28 It was at 18, when I actually tried to join the military, 23:35 I wanted to get away from everything, 23:38 I noticed that I have a lot of family members 23:42 who are involved in gangs and so forth and... 23:45 so I wanted to get away from everything, 23:48 and so what I did was, I joined the Air force 23:51 and I knew that in order to get into the Air force, 23:54 you couldn't have any... 23:55 certain types of drugs in your system 23:58 so I began to train six times a day 24:01 and I joined the Air force in 2008. 24:03 Jason: Oh, wow... 24:05 So you trained before you got into the Air force, 24:08 you trained for the Air force. Yes. 24:10 Wow. I trained and I studied 24:12 a lot of different things on the internet 24:15 to do well in the ASVAB test and so forth 24:18 to get a certain job and I joined the Air force 24:21 in a while, I became an 24:22 Aviation Resource Management Specialist 24:24 and I began to work with MQ-9 and MQ-1 drones, 24:29 remote controlled planes, Hmmm... hmmm... 24:32 and I started off in North Carolina 24:34 and I moved to Lackland Air force Base 24:38 in San Antonio Texas 24:39 and it was there that I began to really 24:43 search a little bit more so... 24:45 So what happened, tell us about the Air force. 24:47 So what happened was when I moved States, 24:50 I felt like I was going under my own 24:52 and I could get away from some of these things 24:54 I just wanted to go, 24:56 I signed up hoping that they would deploy me immediately, 24:58 I can get away and no one knows who I am and 25:01 get out of the stuff that I was in, 25:02 but then going to further my training in Texas, 25:05 it was interesting because I was in a dorm 25:08 there were over 20,000 soldiers in one base 25:11 one big training base, 25:13 and in my dormitory, there were about 60 men 25:15 in one big dorm, 25:17 the beds were like this close to each other, 25:19 and on the weekends, during training, 25:21 on the weekends, 25:23 every soldier has a specific duty 25:26 to keep yourself occupied and busy on the weekends, 25:29 and so, out of all 60 soldiers, me and one other soldier 25:34 are selected to become Chapel Guides. 25:36 Jason: That's not by coincidence. 25:40 That's right, Chapel Guides, 25:42 now what was that, what did that entail? 25:44 So, I'm an Atheist... as a Chapel Guide 25:46 in the Military, I can't ask for a different duty 25:49 that's my mandatory weekend duty, 25:52 and what you have to do is basically 25:54 go to different dorm buildings on the base 25:56 and march groups of soldiers, groups of Baptist soldiers, 26:01 Catholic, Methodist, Buddhist, Wiccan and Adventist soldiers 26:07 to their respective chapels on the weekends. 26:09 Wow! and that was your assignment. 26:12 That was my assignment and I grieved every moment of it 26:15 and I thought, "Why do I have to do this, 26:17 I don't even believe in God, and I'm marching soldiers 26:20 to their chapels so that they can worship their God" 26:22 I didn't understand it. 26:24 Now how did your family feel when you decided 26:26 that you were going to go to the Air force, 26:28 was there any backlash from that? 26:32 You know, there wasn't much opposition from my family 26:37 to go into the military, in fact, 26:39 my family being predominantly Jamaican, 26:41 they thought it was an honor to the family 26:44 for the son to go into the armed forces 26:46 and represent the culture and so forth and 26:49 and so... yeah... 26:51 So you were walking these guys 26:54 to their respective worship places, what happened? 26:58 And so, I... during that time 27:02 my mom had communicated to me that she was praying for me 27:04 and I'm an angry Atheist at the time 27:06 this was 2008, and I told her and I told others 27:11 "Stop praying for me, 27:12 I don't want anything to do with your prayers" 27:14 and so... marching these soldiers 27:17 I pick up Catholic soldiers and Baptist soldiers on Sundays 27:24 and march them to their chapels 27:25 and there's no talking taking place 27:27 while marching them, "hup, two, three, four... " 27:30 and there's no smiling in training 27:33 and if you even smirk, you're in huge trouble. 27:37 You can't even smile? 27:39 There's no smiling, you don't show your teeth 27:41 Jason: Wow! Chris: and so these soldiers 27:44 they can't look at me in the eyes, that's my duty, 27:47 they're new... coming into the base... 27:49 and I am a more "seasoned trainee" 27:52 having been there for a couple of months, 27:53 so these newbies coming in, 27:55 they can't share their faith with me, 27:58 they can't say anything to me, and so, 28:01 when I take them to their chapel services on the weekends, 28:05 out of hatred toward religion, I'd stand outside of the chapel 28:09 and I was instructed to stand inside with them 28:13 but I didn't want to hear about anything 28:14 about the God of the Bible, 28:16 so I'd stand outside of the chapel, 28:17 at attention for about two hours just standing up straight 28:22 waiting for them to finish their service. 28:23 Wow! why do you think you were so angry about God? 28:28 I think, one of the number one things was that my... 28:32 I kind of looked at it like, 28:35 "Oh, the Christians took my mom away" 28:38 so that gave me... I was very disappointed 28:42 and I thought, 28:44 "How can she be deceived so easily 28:45 to go to this church and then to get baptized and then... " 28:48 I was really upset. Hmmm... hmmm... 28:51 Yeah. It almost makes me wonder 28:55 because you know, 28:56 your mom was working all these jobs 28:59 and then she... somebody witnessed to her, 29:01 a pastor witnessed to her at the Bank 29:03 which goes to show, that you can be a witness, 29:05 a light and a witness anywhere but it makes me wonder 29:09 because she accepted Jesus, she started going to church 29:13 and everything and she was excited, 29:15 you saw this excitement in her, 29:17 it's like, it didn't spark a curiosity 29:21 for you to go with her 29:22 but it drove you in the opposite direction. 29:26 And so it was... it was actually when I was there 29:31 in training, and then I was also instructed 29:37 to go and pick up Adventist soldiers, 29:39 so my fellow soldier and I would go to these dorms, 29:43 and go to the Front Desk and ask for the Adventists 29:46 but I didn't know who they were there at the time 29:48 I had a long list of different religions to ask for, 29:51 and I asked the Front Desk person, 29:53 "I'm looking for the Seventh-day Adventures 29:55 can you call them over the intercom" 29:58 Yes, "Looking for the Seventh-day Adventures, 30:00 please come to the front desk" 30:02 and so I get the "Seventh-day Adventures" 30:04 to come forward and march them to their Adventist Services. 30:06 "Seventh-day Adventures" 30:07 I've heard "Seventh-day Advantages" 30:10 which kind of is... that's a good one... 30:12 "Seventh-day Adventures" that is so funny! 30:15 And so there was... now... having gone through some time 30:19 when I was here at the base, it was in the middle of July 30:24 in San Antonio, Texas, 30:25 and it was so hot outside of the chapels 30:27 that I was getting a little bit weary 30:29 standing outside for two hours at attention, 30:31 in the heat, so I said, "Okay, I'm going to go inside" 30:34 and I went inside one of the Adventist Chapels, 30:36 and sat at the very back, 30:37 not wanting to hear anything about God 30:39 and I was waiting for my soldiers to finish their service 30:42 and then come and go back home, 30:44 and I had heard messages on Daniel chapter 2 30:47 and it really... 30:51 that really sparked my curiosity 30:53 because in some of the Military Training I had heard 30:55 of some of the Kingdoms, 30:57 Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece and then Rome, 30:58 I had heard some of these things before, 31:00 and I heard that message being presented in the church, 31:03 and I thought, "How did they come up with this, 31:06 is that in the Bible? that can't be in the Bible," 31:08 so that kind of got me thinking. 31:10 Hmmm... hmmm... look at God, look at how... 31:14 God knew how to reach you, 31:16 he knew 31:18 to have you of all people leading other soldiers 31:23 to a service that you... the heat was so intense 31:27 you had to go inside and sit and listen? 31:30 Jason: He has a sense of humor. 31:32 He does, He really does, God is amazing 31:35 so, you got... you sat in there 31:38 and your interest was peaked, Yes. 31:41 you decided you wanted to see what was this image about, 31:44 what this whole Daniel 2 situation about 31:48 and so... you began... 31:49 did you begin to study at that point? 31:50 At that point, I began... I got a Bible on the base 31:56 and I began looking for that chapter 31:58 that the pastor was talking about 31:59 and I began searching on my own, 32:01 I didn't want anyone to know that I was looking 32:03 in the Bible for that stuff, Hmmm... hmmm... 32:05 so I would read it secretly and in the middle of the night, 32:09 I would read it and try and look for information, 32:12 and what they were talking about in the church and so that... 32:15 I was very confused 32:20 because of what I heard in the Adventist church 32:23 at the time on the base, so I thought to myself, 32:26 "This is not as emotionally based as I thought 32:29 this seems to have some meat to it 32:31 this seems to have some information or something there" 32:33 so, I began to really look and yeah... 32:37 What was it like at the base with religion, 32:41 in regards to religion because I know that 32:45 it's like the mission, the mission, the mission 32:48 and you are... you know... so what was it like 32:51 trying to walk with Jesus at that point? 32:57 I think God really used the negative aspect of it 33:03 to bring about His will because in training, 33:06 the religion aspect of it, 33:08 the religion aspect of training is not to encourage Christianity 33:11 it's just to encourage you to have peace 33:14 because the training is very intense, 33:16 some of us were doing live training in different countries, 33:20 in third-world countries and it was during the time in 2009 33:24 that I was in a place that I cannot speak of 33:26 where I was doing live training and they encourage you 33:32 to go to the chapel and to sing a song, 33:35 to kind of help you with the stress 33:38 so it's not so much... 33:39 the agenda isn't so much about 33:43 getting to know Jesus, 33:44 it's just about coping with your internal stress. 33:48 Yeah, to keep you from having a nervous breakdown. 33:51 Basically... I agree... 33:53 So what happened as you 33:55 continued to go to these services, 33:58 as you continued to study on the down low 34:02 what happened, what happened to you? 34:04 I began to experience a little bit of a conversion on my own 34:09 and I began to study about the Sabbath and so forth 34:13 in the Bible, and during that time 34:16 it was before that, actually, I was doing some live training 34:20 in a place and I saw so many things 34:23 that overwhelmed my conscience 34:28 and working with drones and 34:33 these remote controlled planes, the purpose is to kill 34:39 and so you see a lot of death at a young age 34:45 and the training is very desensitizing 34:49 so that you don't really respond to having a sense of conscience 34:53 towards those things but having saw so much... 34:57 many times having bullets flying past my ears, 35:01 there are not many Atheists in that moment, 35:05 and so having seen families exploding to pieces, 35:12 that is what really got me thinking 35:15 and what's interesting is that in the military, 35:17 when you see these things or 35:21 a lot of Christians who join the military become Atheists 35:24 because they can't... you can't deal with that, 35:26 and a lot of Atheists are staunch Atheists 35:30 and so... but what I saw, 35:33 rather than encouraging me to become more of a staunch Atheist, 35:36 it encouraged me to search more, 35:39 I didn't understand... how was this happening? 35:43 all this blood, all this death, 35:46 I did not understand how... 35:50 I knew that there seemed to be something 35:52 in that moment, 35:53 I didn't really understand how to articulate it 35:56 but there seemed to be something happening 35:58 behind human eyes, 36:00 or some great controversy happening between good and evil 36:02 and so you could see that in these events 36:05 and that is what really got me searching even more 36:07 and so I then called my mom, who, I had before told her, 36:10 "Never pray for me, 36:12 don't ever tell me you're praying for me," 36:14 I then told her, 36:16 "Look I'm thankful for your prayers, 36:17 and I'm going to consider the Christian experience. " 36:20 What was her reaction to that? 36:23 She was overwhelmed... 36:24 she was overwhelmed, she didn't really understand 36:28 but I told her before 36:33 that I would never, ever visit a church 36:35 and, of course, here I am at the base visiting churches 36:38 I told her I never would on my own will, 36:43 and so, out of my own will out of deep curiosity, 36:47 because of what I had seen bothering my conscience, 36:51 out of my own will, I wanted to visit her church 36:55 the one she attended, and so, 36:58 I then went to North Carolina 37:01 and I went to church with her for the first time, 37:05 I was very skeptical and I just wanted to know, 37:08 "How is she so happy?" 37:12 before I was antagonistic about her happiness 37:14 and now I was kind of receptive toward it, 37:17 and so, at that church, that Sabbath, 37:20 one of the Elders gave a testimony 37:22 and it was there... 37:24 he gave his testimony about how God brought him 37:26 out of a life of drug addictions and promiscuity and so forth 37:30 similar to mine, that I was kind of "still in" 37:33 so that really... that really touched me a lot 37:36 and it was that moment I gave my heart to God in 2009. 37:39 Amen, so you went to church with your mom, 37:42 and while there, 37:44 someone gave a testimony that mirrored your life, 37:48 and that just drew you close to the Lord. 37:52 Chris: Yes. 37:54 Jason: I had a chance to read an article about your journey 37:57 and I recall reading something about 38:02 when that experience was shared and you... 38:04 there was still kind of a 38:07 rebellious part in you 38:10 and so you went... when they did the alter call, 38:13 touch on that part. 38:15 Yes, 38:17 because I had been wrestling for so much before 38:19 I went to church that Sabbath, I was more receptive 38:22 and the Elder gave an Alter Call 38:24 asking for people to give their hearts to Christ 38:28 for the first time, and it was very difficult, 38:32 I was very interested and compelled 38:34 to stand up and give my heart to God 38:36 when I stood up for the Alter Call, 38:38 pride settled in immediately, I thought I could never do this, 38:42 wait... back up and think twice about this, 38:44 I have too many things going on for myself, 38:47 I'm in the Military, I have a good career, 38:50 I have all this money, I bought this new car, 38:52 I have too many things going on right now, 38:55 I cannot give my heart to God at this time 38:57 so when I stood up 38:59 I immediately ran to the bathroom instead, 39:03 because people are watching, 39:06 I'm like, "No, I cannot do this right now, 39:08 go back and think again, 39:10 think logically here," 39:12 I ran to the bathroom, locked the door 39:15 thinking no one was going to come find me here, 39:20 and I was just... and the reality of God's love 39:24 that he was sharing in the sermon, 39:26 had hit me harder when I had ran... 39:28 and so I just fell to my knees, 39:30 and I was like, "Okay, I'm done fighting this, 39:35 I've been fighting this for a long time," 39:38 and so I, in my own heart I told God, 39:41 in my own little ways... "If you exist or whatever, 39:44 I'm just going to accept it, 39:45 I'm going to accept you" and so I did. 39:49 And at that moment, was there an overwhelming 39:52 peace that came over you 39:54 after you made that decision to accept Christ? 39:58 Yes, there were two feelings fighting for the victory, 40:03 one was peace and one was fear, 40:05 having peace that I've accepted Christ 40:09 and that He is going to take... 40:11 He is going to take my life into His hands 40:14 and I have nothing to worry about for the future, 40:16 I have nothing to fear for the future... 40:18 and then the fear, that, whoa, whoa, whoa... 40:20 "What if I still want to do 40:22 some of these things I was doing before," 40:23 Jason: It's that old man in you. 40:25 I don't want to... 40:26 "As Christians is it going to be boring or fun 40:28 or I can still go to these parties and 40:30 can I still go to these clubs 40:32 and get drunk with my friends or not?" 40:35 and so, even after the day of baptism, 40:37 which was June 21st, 2009, 40:39 even after the very day of baptism, 40:42 I was... there were several others getting baptized 40:47 that same day, 40:48 and when the person that was going before me 40:52 was getting baptized, me being next, 40:55 I left the church, out of fear again, 40:57 I said, "No, I can't do this, I have to think critically, 41:00 I just don't want to give up my 'stuff' 41:05 I don't want to give up my girlfriend 41:10 or the clubs or the drinking and the parties" 41:14 and so, I left the church 41:15 and it was thunderstorming and raining so bad that day, 41:19 I left the church and I was 41:21 walking between cars in this huge parking lot 41:23 and basically hiding from everyone again 41:25 hiding from God, you know, hiding from people, 41:29 and I was fighting it 41:30 even to the day of baptism to the very moment, 41:32 I was fighting it, fighting it, fighting it, 41:35 and I got into the car of a friend of mine 41:38 in this parking lot, in front of the church 41:40 where they're getting baptized, and I stooped down in the seat, 41:45 and I was like, "No, I can't do this," 41:47 and I was hiding under the steering wheel 41:49 hoping no one could find me, 41:50 hoping no one would find me, 41:51 and I would see people walking out of the church looking for me 41:56 because it was my time to get baptized, 41:57 they were looking for me, and saying, "Where is Chris?" 41:59 and I was hiding, hiding, I did not want to do it, 42:01 but one of the Elders... 42:04 the Elder who preached that Sabbath 42:06 came out looking for me, for some reason, 42:08 once he came out of the church, 42:10 he made direct eye contact with me 42:12 even though I was hiding in the car, 42:14 way in the back of the parking lot, 42:16 he saw me immediately and he came to me and asked me, 42:19 "Chris, what are you waiting for?" 42:21 and so I knew to get up and to stop hesitating 42:25 and so by God's grace I was baptized that day. 42:28 Jason: Praise the Lord. 42:29 Amen, so what happened after you got baptized that day 42:33 how did your life change? 42:35 It changed tremendously, 42:38 I began to have more peace of mind 42:42 and I began to, through Christ, 42:46 to be little more victorious over the fears I had 42:48 before giving my heart to Him fully 42:51 I went back to training literally 24 hours after baptism 42:57 so I had no mentorship, no one to tell me, 43:01 "Hey, you're a new Christian, let us help you along the way, 43:04 if you stumble, we'll help you," this and that, 43:06 or "we'll nurture you," I had nothing, 43:08 so going back into a road of, 43:11 going back into the Military setting, 43:15 back into training, 43:16 it was difficult... very difficult, 43:20 I was doing more training in San Antonio, Texas, 43:27 and it was there that I began to try and pray on my own and 43:31 I didn't know what I was doing 43:32 the soldiers who were in my dorm began to make fun of me 43:38 and a lot of them being Atheists, 43:39 they said, "Why are you praying, 43:41 you're stupid, you shouldn't believe in God" 43:44 and it was very difficult, but thankfully, 43:47 out of the 60 soldiers that were there, 43:50 most being Atheists, 43:51 there were two that were searching on their own as well, 43:56 but hadn't communicated that to anyone 43:59 because it's such a tight, political, 44:02 militaristic environment, 44:04 that it's difficult to share spiritual things, 44:07 feelings, you're looked upon as "weak," 44:09 you have to run ten miles a day, do hundreds of push-ups and 44:14 you do all these things, you have to be serious and 44:17 keep what is called "a military bearing" 44:19 there's no showing of emotions and feelings 44:20 and believing in Jesus, none of that, 44:22 and so, it was difficult for me to do that there, 44:25 but by God's grace I had a friend of mine 44:30 named Lee, who noticed that I was praying 44:35 and getting all this opposition from my fellow soldiers, 44:38 and he asked me, "What is it that you believe?" 44:41 and the guy who was marching the soldiers 44:44 to the Adventist Chapels, now I'm going there with him as well 44:47 one of the guys, he asks, "Can I go with you as well?" 44:51 he was baptized into the church by God's grace. 44:54 Amen, so your light was shining even there, yeah. 44:58 Chris: By God's grace. 44:59 There was a miracle that took place 45:01 but there was a struggle that happened prior to it 45:05 with you trying to gain the acceptance and get Sabbath off 45:11 talk to our Viewers about that, 45:14 what took place when you tried to go to your 45:18 superiors to get Sabbath off. 45:19 Yeah, so I had moved from Lackland Air force Base 45:22 to Keesler Air force Base in Mississippi 45:25 and then to Holloman Air force Base 45:27 Alamogordo, New Mexico, 45:29 and it was in New Mexico, kind of like a desert, 45:32 I was there and I began to really plead with God 45:34 because I was working every Sabbath, 45:36 and now, this was 2010 now in New Mexico, 45:38 and I had to work every Friday nights, 45:41 every Saturday morning, all Saturday, 45:45 and I realized that the Bible was simple and clear 45:48 that on Sabbath I was to cease from all work, 45:52 and I began to ask God, "What is it that I can do?" 45:55 I am under military authority 45:57 I can't just ask and get Sabbath off and... 46:00 "Oh sure," that doesn't happen that way, 46:02 so I didn't know what to do 46:04 so I went to my authorities, I planned a meeting with them, 46:06 I was working for a certain squadron on the base, 46:12 in New Mexico and I... 46:13 talking to my colonels and my authorities, 46:16 I asked them at this meeting if I could have Saturday off 46:21 and I communicated that in a certain way 46:23 like in a military way, 46:24 "I need this time off for these purposes, 46:26 this, this, this, that... " and they said, 46:28 "No, the mission comes first, you are Government property, 46:32 so everything that you just said about your 46:35 'so called' Sabbath, 46:36 what you believe about not coming to work... " 46:39 they said, "No, you need to be here on Saturday, 46:41 so, your religion, your spirituality, 46:45 that comes after the mission is complete and successful," 46:47 so I left that meeting very perplexed, 46:52 very perplexed, and I called my mother 46:56 who prayed for me to be converted 47:00 I called her in a time of trial 47:03 and I asked her if she could give me some insight 47:07 as to how I could move through this... 47:09 how I can get Sabbaths off or what was her spiritual advice 47:13 and it was in 2010 where I was becoming more convicted 47:17 on the truths of the Bible, that she was falling away, 47:21 and when I called her she said, 47:23 "Chris, I have gone back to become an Atheist" 47:27 she said, "Chris, I strongly encourage you 47:30 to leave everything, everything I prayed for you for, 47:35 everything I encouraged you to do, go back," 47:38 it wasn't about the church specifically, 47:41 it was about her personal experience 47:43 and she said, "You know Chris, 47:45 I've given up on God, I've given up on everything, 47:48 I'm going back" and she encouraged me to go back 47:51 and... in fact... 47:53 communicated that to my whole family 47:54 and so, when my entire family found out 47:56 that I was trying to keep the Sabbath 47:58 and wrestling with these issues, 48:01 my whole family agreed 48:03 that if I had continued to be a Christian, 48:07 that they wanted absolutely nothing to do with me 48:11 as a person, and as a member of the family, 48:14 in fact, I was told, by my own grandfather, 48:16 "I never want to see you until the day I die," 48:19 and so it was pretty tough. Hmmm... 48:21 So you had the Air force, you were in a crisis, 48:24 in the midst of a crisis with the military, 48:27 and then you had your family that essentially said, 48:31 "We want nothing to do with you... " 48:33 and so, how did you feel, 48:36 were you just feeling totally abandoned, where were you? 48:41 I felt totally abandoned, totally ostracized, 48:44 I didn't know what to do and I found a church nearby 48:50 and I talked to some friends who were around my age group 48:55 and now that I look back I know that they were kind of 48:59 nominal Christians, 49:01 but I asked them, "What should I do?" 49:03 and they told me, "Chris, if you're going to be 49:05 a Christian, if you're going to be an Adventist, 49:06 it shouldn't be that difficult, 49:08 in order to be an Adventist, 49:09 you must learn to compromise your faith. " 49:13 Oh my! they gave even worse advice. 49:17 That's horrible advice. 49:18 So not having family support, not even having... 49:21 being a young person, being a new Christian, 49:24 I'm taking anything they tell me as truth, 49:27 "Okay, maybe they're right, 49:28 in the military, what they said is right," 49:30 but I began to read the Bible more for myself, 49:33 and with serious intensity, 49:35 and I began to really plead for God to give me 49:39 some encouragement, and so, I had a dream, 49:43 and the Military is a very tight system 49:48 so there's not much you can do to maneuver through it, 49:49 I think, in that light, I had a dream 49:52 and in this dream, it was revealed to me 49:55 specifically how to maneuver through the Military System 50:00 to get Sabbaths off, and without going in detail 50:06 I understood, through the dream, 50:09 things that were going on in the System 50:12 that would put me in a bad place in the last days, 50:15 and so, it was a very intense dream 50:19 that I had that even... I'll never forget to this day 50:24 but because of the dream, 50:26 I knew that I had to study the Bible, 50:28 and inspired writings as much as possible, 50:34 in order to understand how to get out of the Military 50:37 because something was coming, 50:39 and so I scheduled another meeting with my authorities, 50:43 and having read in the Bible, 50:46 having asked God for encouragement 50:48 I was asking God, 50:50 "What moves do I make what do I do, 50:53 facing this opposition from the Military authorities," 50:56 and I read in Acts 5:29, 50:59 where I saw what Peter and the Apostles did 51:03 when they were faced with opposition in their time as well 51:06 and Peter and the Apostles told the Authorities, 51:08 "We ought to obey God, rather than men" 51:10 Hmmm... hmmm... Yeah... 51:12 and even though my authorities told me that 51:13 the mission comes first, 51:14 Matthew 6:24 says, and 33 says, 51:16 that "The kingdom of God comes first" 51:18 and that "No man can serve two masters" 51:21 so I knew to go to my Authorities this time 51:24 and to ask more firmly for Saturdays off, 51:28 and tell them that I was convicted upon the Bible, 51:31 and so they said, "No" again, they said, 51:34 "In fact, if you want to keep your Saturday that bad, 51:39 if you do not come to work on Saturday, 51:42 we're going to send you to prison for two years," 51:44 Wow! so what did you do? 51:47 And so, they gave me two weeks, they said, 51:52 "We'll give you two weeks to think and recant your faith, 51:55 to think, reevaluate everything you've said, 51:58 everything you've come across, everything you believe, 52:00 and go back 52:02 to why you're here, 52:04 why you're here for the mission, 52:06 if you don't come to work on Saturday, 52:10 and you want to follow through with this belief, 52:13 we'll let you keep the Sabbath behind prison bars. " 52:16 Hmmm... And so for two weeks, 52:18 it got really intense, 52:20 I actually had to illegally escape the base 52:24 because my immediate supervisor 52:28 would come to my apartment on the base 52:31 almost knocking my door down looking for me on the Sabbath, 52:34 because I had to be at work for emergency purposes, 52:37 for serving on the mission. 52:39 Where would you go, when you escaped, 52:41 where did you go to? 52:43 I actually escaped the base and I went to a friend's house 52:50 some friends who I met 52:52 in the Adventist Church nearby in New Mexico, 52:55 and they offered their home to me to come and stay 52:57 if I had any emergency situations which... that was one 53:01 leaving the base so they couldn't find me on Sabbath 53:04 or they'll pull me into work in handcuffs. 53:07 So, how did it work out, what happened? 53:10 Because of the threats 53:13 and because I knew how tight the communication system was 53:15 on the base, I had to hide from Security Forces 53:21 in the mountains of New Mexico for several Sabbaths, 53:27 all Saturday afternoon having escaped the base 53:34 going into the mountains and hiding from all Air force police. 53:38 But then you'd go back on Monday? 53:40 I'd go back on Sunday with more ramifications 53:46 and what happened those two weeks, 53:49 because of my illegal move, 53:54 I disobeyed military authority by not showing up to work, 53:58 because of the move that I made to follow God 54:02 and do what God had said, they gave me something called, 54:08 a "Mental Evaluation" 54:10 because they knew that in training, 54:12 the training is so intense, 54:14 so that you don't have these moments 54:17 nothing shakes you, nothing moves you, 54:19 you don't get caught up in some 54:21 emotional thing or some religious thing, 54:24 and so, because of what happened to me, 54:26 they thought I had some mental problem 54:30 and so they planned to hospitalize me 54:33 by giving me a mental evaluation, 54:35 they put me in a small room 54:37 and they gave me a 650-question Test 54:41 with two IQ tests, timed, 54:44 with authorities standing on both sides 54:46 watching me the entire time 54:48 and it was to... the questions were geared 54:51 to give me the answer in such a way 54:54 that would encourage me, 54:57 that would encourage them to... by the end result, 55:01 put me in the hospital, PTSD or some mental issue, 55:05 and a few days later 55:08 they gave me a nine-hour interrogation 55:09 with an Air force Lawyer, 55:11 where they questioned me for nine hours straight, 55:14 on everything I believed and why. 55:17 Wow! Wow... I can't believe our time 55:20 is coming to a close, tell us how did it end, 55:23 what happened, what was the resolution of it? 55:26 How it ended? The immediate supervisor 55:30 who was over my Prison Sentence, 55:32 24 hours before my Prison Sentence began, 55:37 the guy in charge of it all 55:39 was sent to Iraq out of an emergency 55:42 which happens all the time, 55:44 and the only other person in my entire Unit, 55:47 who took his position, was a Christian, 55:50 took his place, 55:51 and I was delivered from all Military imprisonment. 55:54 The day before you were to go into prison! 56:00 Yes. Look at God, 56:01 look at how God saved you from that! 56:06 That's amazing, so what are you doing now, 56:09 tell us what you're doing now. 56:11 So now I'm going to Andrews University, 56:13 I'm doing a double major in Spanish and Theology. 56:15 Oh! that's awesome, what do you hope to do? 56:20 I'm not exactly sure yet 56:24 I just hope to help pastors, help churches finish the work. 56:28 I really have a passion to help train the laity 56:32 to do the work for themselves. 56:34 That is tremendous, so if you had 30 seconds 56:38 to talk to a young man who is battling with 56:42 some of the same issues that you had, 56:44 either Atheism or Agnosticism, what would you say, 56:48 look into that camera and tell a young man 56:51 in about 30 seconds, what he should do. 56:56 I would say to the Atheist, I would say, 57:01 "Give it a shot because to an Atheist, you have nothing, 57:06 to you eternal life is a possibility, 57:10 Christ is a possibility, or impossibility 57:14 on both sides, you have nothing," 57:16 to the Agnostic, 57:17 for the one that's in between, 57:19 I would say, "Take a step, 57:20 because you never know what can actually happen, 57:23 the Bible is explicitly clear and through Biblical history, 57:28 and archeology, and prophecy, 57:30 that's how I've experienced 57:32 and that's how I know that God does exist" 57:34 and I'll say to the Christian, 57:36 "Give your life to God fully again. " 57:39 Thank you so much, that was wonderful 57:42 and we're so blessed that God has delivered you 57:46 from Atheism, thank you Jason. 57:49 You're welcome. 57:51 Yeah, yeah, and thank you for joining us 57:54 join us next time because you know what? 57:56 We really want you to know, 57:59 it just wouldn't be the same, without you. |
Revised 2016-01-14