Urban Report

The Professional Lover

Three Angels Broadcasting Network

Program transcript

Participants: Yvonne Lewis (Host), Claude & Jocelyn Thomas


Series Code: UBR

Program Code: UBR000170A

00:01 Wouldn't it be great to have some bite-sized portions
00:03 of love prescriptions?
00:05 Well, stay tuned to meet a couple
00:07 that has the answers you need
00:08 to make your relationship special.
00:10 My name is Yvonne Lewis
00:12 and you're watching Urban Report.
00:37 Hello and welcome to Urban Report.
00:39 My guests today are Claude and Jocelyn Thomas
00:42 Authors and Family Counselors
00:44 and in the interest of full disclosure,
00:47 my aunt and uncle.
00:48 Welcome to Urban Report, yeah...
00:51 Thank you Yvonne. Glad to be here.
00:52 Good to see you darling.
00:54 You guys are here...
00:55 my whole life... ever since...
00:58 well I've know Uncle Jackie longer than I've known Aunt Jo
01:03 but you guys have been such an example to me
01:08 of what a real, Godly marriage should look like,
01:12 I mean... and everybody who knows you
01:16 like... when you think about great marriages,
01:19 you guys...
01:20 you guys really do praise the Lord.
01:22 Amen, amen... Praise the Lord.
01:24 An epitome of a great marriage and that has turned into...
01:28 your marriage and your knowledge about relationships
01:33 has turned into a ministry...
01:35 tell us about that journey how did that happen?
01:38 Well it happened when I went to Andrews
01:43 to work on my Master's and Doctoral studies,
01:48 and I just found that
01:53 the thing that I had been studying
01:56 during the '70s... study really began seriously
02:03 on marriage and family relationships
02:07 and I picked up on that at Andrews,
02:11 I took courses in Family Life, Marriage and Family life,
02:15 well, I was studying
02:18 Educational Psychology and Counseling and what have you...
02:22 and that just became my groove.
02:24 Okay, all right...
02:26 And I began to look at it seriously
02:29 especially when I discovered
02:33 that the conclusions that I was reading
02:37 in the studies that were going on
02:38 really fit well
02:46 with what I was reading in the Bible
02:49 about love, you know...
02:54 and when I read in Ellen White that love is not a feeling,
03:01 it's a principle, a way of behaving
03:06 that one has to come to learn and practice
03:10 to understand how to really relate to the opposite sex
03:16 and that intrigued me
03:19 and one of my professors that was on the verge of retiring
03:28 had a group that he was mentoring
03:34 Jo and I joined the group and listened to his Seminars
03:41 and we discussed what was going on in the Bible
03:43 and so forth... and that got more and more intriguing
03:48 and I said to Jo, "We'd like to do that"
03:53 We like to do that... you know... and...
03:57 Doing the Seminars... conducting the Seminars.
04:01 Oh, okay, okay, and so you brought Aunt Jo
04:04 into the mix and got her involved...
04:07 Into the mix... right...
04:09 It was awkward at first
04:11 because he is the professor... and the teacher...
04:13 it was a little awkward at first as we stand before the group
04:16 but I had my good practice with my family at home
04:20 so, after a while it became natural for me
04:23 standing up and talking and sharing about it.
04:26 We really got good at that...
04:28 that sharing... really...
04:30 incidences that occurred within our family
04:32 to help people to know that they're normal
04:34 and we're normal, it's a work in progress, I guess
04:38 a work in progress... family...
04:40 What a great thing to do because
04:42 so many times people wonder,
04:44 "Is my situation the only one of its kind,
04:47 am I unique, are we unique,
04:50 are we kind of sick," sometimes it's kind of sick,
04:54 but then, with you guys, you were able to say,
04:57 "This is what goes on...
04:58 some of these things go on in a normal family"
05:01 and so you were able to help people to know
05:04 that they're okay.
05:06 Well, the big thing about it was
05:08 that the problems that you have... can be fixed.
05:12 All right, all right.
05:14 And of course, people enjoy that, you know,
05:18 I said, "But you got to work at it"
05:20 they have to work hard at it,
05:22 which is where this idea of being a professional lover came.
05:26 Come on now, I love that
05:28 now... is that the name...
05:29 you are writing a devotional book, correct?
05:33 Right, right.
05:34 What's the title?
05:36 Becoming a professional lover.
05:39 Becoming a professional lover...
05:41 now you know... that's kind of...
05:43 I like that... I like that, it sounds very,
05:46 what's the word? Assured...
05:49 Yvonne, Yvonne, let me share something with you
05:52 one of my tools that I use when I'm reading and studying
05:57 is the dictionary... Okay...
05:58 and I actually looked up what a "profession" is
06:02 before we get to "professional"
06:04 "a profession is a calling requiring specialized knowledge
06:09 and often requiring specialized academic preparation"
06:14 keep in mind now, we're talking about the family
06:17 so when Claude says that he is a "professional lover"
06:20 "a professional is one that engages in
06:23 activity professionally" so now, husband and wife,
06:28 marriage and family, it's a profession.
06:31 It's something that you need to go to school,
06:34 learn... not necessarily a school building
06:36 but you're learning from God's Word,
06:39 who is the pattern of family life,
06:42 He created it, so that,
06:44 if I want to be a "professional lover"
06:46 like the profession,
06:47 like the professor... who is God...
06:49 then I must study His Word
06:51 and He has given us the pattern,
06:54 as to how to be like Him,
06:55 I love that...
06:57 so it really becomes... it's beautiful,
06:59 it's a beautiful thing,
07:00 and you're not out there by yourself,
07:02 or by yourselves.
07:04 So there are... then these principles
07:07 for family life that can be pulled
07:11 or extrapolated from the Word, from the Spirit of Prophecy
07:14 and applied to make a family successful.
07:16 Yes. Exactly.
07:18 And you guys have been married for how many years?
07:21 Fifty years...
07:22 He'd like to say 51 now because we are in our 51st year.
07:26 So what would you say to someone
07:33 who has either been married several times
07:37 or has not been successful in one marriage,
07:41 what would you say to them about how...
07:44 what is it that keeps you guys together,
07:48 what makes a marriage successful?
07:50 When basic needs are met,
07:55 when I said that marriage is not a feeling
07:58 love is not a feeling, it's a way of behaving
08:02 and the operational definition of that for me
08:06 came from the story of the Good Samaritan
08:11 and knowing that
08:16 there was not a whole lot of good feeling
08:20 between them the Good Samaritan came along
08:23 and saw this wounded man by the road
08:25 and was prompted to go over and help him out,
08:29 stayed with him, fixed him up,
08:32 when that didn't work
08:34 during this little time they had together
08:37 took him to an Inn,
08:39 stayed with him overnight kept working with him
08:43 and when he found that he needed more help,
08:46 then he went and said to the Innkeeper,
08:49 "I want you to just keep working with him
08:52 until he is fully healed
08:56 and when I come back from my journey,
08:59 I'll pay you whatever it costs to do it"
09:02 so out of that,
09:04 I learned that from God's perspective
09:08 an operation or definition of love
09:11 would be using my time, energy and resources
09:15 to satisfy the legitimate needs of another human being
09:21 and minister to their happiness and personal well-being.
09:25 I love that...
09:27 And then I discovered,
09:29 reading through 1 Corinthians 13
09:33 that love... not only has meaning,
09:36 it has structure,
09:37 and all those principles that are listed there
09:40 in 1st Corinthians 13, was a part of that structure.
09:43 Unpack that for us a little bit for us.
09:47 Well, you know, it starts off by saying
09:53 that if you just say the words, talk love...
09:58 you're like a sounding gong in a tinkling cymbal.
10:03 Nothing's really going on.
10:06 I don't feel loved, you're saying nice things
10:09 but I know the real deal.
10:11 But if you deal with the principles related to that
10:17 that they list in 1st Corinthians 13,
10:20 then, you're not just talking about it,
10:24 you're actually dealing with those necessary elements
10:29 that make love... love...
10:32 Hmmm... hmm... hmmm...
10:34 And then of course, when it comes to relationships,
10:39 you know, the chapter ends
10:41 by saying there are three primary principles
10:45 faith, hope and love, but the greatest of these
10:49 is love. Hmmm... hmmm...
10:52 And of course, when you think about God...
10:54 that's how He defines Himself,
10:57 in 1st John it says, "God is love. "
11:02 Hmmm... hmmm...
11:03 And those that love, the way God says to love,
11:09 right... can meet those needs
11:18 and produce happiness and joy in their relationships.
11:23 So how does that play out in... in your relationship,
11:28 how do you apply those principles
11:31 to your relationship?
11:32 That's what I wanted to share and that is that
11:36 my goal... before I even met "a husband,"
11:40 anybody... my goal was to satisfy...
11:45 to love someone so well the way God said to love them
11:49 that nobody else would want them
11:51 they would just be that spoiled, they'd be totally mine...
11:54 And I am spoiled indeed...
11:57 I know you are... so precious...
11:59 and I made it a study, I really did,
12:04 it's... professionally I went to school to become a nurse,
12:09 which I did become, but I had to go to school,
12:12 I had to practice, I had to take tests,
12:14 it was a profession that I was seeking to become involved with,
12:18 and to do that for a husband,
12:22 for a man that I chose to love,
12:26 I put forth all that same effort,
12:29 that was just my personal goal.
12:31 I think that's so beautiful,
12:33 I wish more women and men would do that.
12:36 I think today, we think of...
12:38 we don't think about marriage as something
12:40 that you have to study or prepare for.
12:42 You grow up, you get married,
12:45 you go to school, you get married,
12:47 you have children, you get old,
12:48 it starts all over again...
12:50 Yeah, yeah, yeah...
12:51 But it is something that calls for effort,
12:55 for studying, for understanding,
12:57 and, of course, if you want to learn the right way,
13:00 go to the source... I can't say that enough
13:03 and we want to help people
13:07 to achieve the happiness that we have achieved.
13:09 It's so evident, when people know you
13:14 and they meet you
13:15 that you have a special relationship,
13:17 you still hold hands,
13:19 you're still very loving toward each other,
13:21 and affectionate toward each other,
13:23 and it's just... to me...
13:25 it's such a beautiful thing to see
13:27 because it's so rare, it's just such a rarity,
13:30 let's go back for a second and talk a little bit about
13:33 how you two met, because,
13:36 the whole thing was just so God-ordained...
13:39 It was God ordained...
13:41 tell me how you met, let's hear a little bit of
13:43 each of your perceptions of each other.
13:45 Well, I could begin with saying that
13:47 when I was 14 years old, I was visiting an aunt and uncle
13:51 for the summer, and as my habit, at nighttime,
13:55 I was kneeling by my bed to pray...
13:58 and my uncle came in, he was a big teaser,
14:00 he said, "Jo, are you praying for a husband?"
14:03 I said, "Uncle George, I'm only 14 years old,"
14:06 he said, "no... " he got serious,
14:08 he said, "Begin now to ask the Lord,
14:10 should you get a husband, for Him to choose your husband"
14:13 and that stayed with me, so all through high school,
14:16 college and et cetera, I enjoyed myself
14:19 dating and whatever because
14:21 when I would get ready to marry,
14:23 should there be marriage in my future,
14:26 that God would do the choosing,
14:28 and I already told... I always told God
14:29 that He would be the one to choose,
14:31 so that's... that's how I met this man.
14:34 I was the Youth Leader...
14:38 Let me tell the story from there.
14:42 I was at a critical point in my life,
14:45 I had lost a wife, had three children
14:48 and there was a grieving for about six months
14:55 and my aunt and uncle who were very avid youth leaders
15:02 in the church... there was a Youth Convention
15:07 going on in Atlantic City
15:08 and they asked me to drive them to this convention,
15:14 of course, reluctantly,
15:15 I didn't really want to go because
15:17 I would meet folks that I knew and they'd be asking
15:21 how I'm doing since the loss of my wife and everything
15:24 but I agreed finally to go,
15:27 I was sitting at the last Sabbath
15:31 of that Conference and a young man was preaching
15:37 talking about his conversion, his redevelopment
15:42 and what have you, and I heard a voice in my mind
15:46 that said, "Claude, are you ready
15:51 to give your life to me fully
15:55 so that I can help you continue to develop
16:00 and become the man I want you to be?"
16:04 And with tears streaming down my face
16:08 I said, "Yes, Lord, I'm ready, I'm ready...
16:15 you saved my wife, now save me, save me"
16:21 and from there... after the sermon was over
16:27 and we were sitting around,
16:28 an aunt in the family came rushing up to me
16:33 and grabbed me by my hand and said,
16:37 "I want you to meet Jo. "
16:38 Meanwhile, before I got to him, knowing that another aunt
16:44 see... these older aunts,
16:46 they're working on things for him,
16:48 his family is involved...
16:50 but this aunt grabbed me and she said,
16:52 "I want you to meet Jackie, have you met Jackie?
16:54 That's his nickname. Yeah, yes.
16:55 And I said, "No" and I was shy about it
16:59 and I must say that I had gone to this Conference
17:03 looking good because I'm on the hunt.
17:06 At 26... you look ready...
17:10 So if you go shopping, look nice, play the role,
17:14 so, as I was approaching him though, Yvonne,
17:18 the thing that really sticks out in my mind is that I heard,
17:21 "Jo, this is the man that you're going to marry"
17:25 and no one's around, no one heard that,
17:28 but I knew, God was telling me,
17:30 "Jo, this is the man that you're going to marry"
17:33 That was the answer to the 14-year-old prayer.
17:36 Yes, yes, yes.
17:37 So when I got to him, I didn't know him,
17:39 I'd never met him, I'd heard about him
17:42 in the loss of his wife and I felt very sorry about that
17:45 and I was so sad when I heard about it
17:49 but when I got to him, he stood up,
17:52 just very debonair,
17:55 and I don't know what his voice was before,
17:59 but his voice was very deep.
18:00 He probably took it down a couple of octaves.
18:04 He said, "Well, hello... " I was so impressed.
18:07 Oh, that's so good.
18:10 And then when I got to him, Yvonne,
18:11 he was sitting next to a young lady,
18:13 because he was a good catch at this point in life,
18:17 and his aunt just grabbed her and took her away
18:21 and he offered me a seat...
18:23 Oh, she got the old bum's rush like, "Okay, away from here... "
18:29 It's really funny but that's the beginning,
18:34 that was the beginning and things went very rapidly,
18:39 I mean, when God does something, He doesn't...
18:42 it's God doing it, you know.
18:44 One of the unique things about that meeting,
18:47 my little daughter, who was just going on three...
18:52 No, she was four.
18:53 going on four... she just kept looking at Jo
18:58 and took her by the hand.
19:03 And, you know, your grandmother, "Mama" as we called her,
19:09 wanted to take her and take her to the restroom,
19:11 she said, "No," and she held my hand,
19:12 she said, "this is our new mommy"
19:15 I mean, it was the Holy Spirit.
19:17 Oh, you're going to make me cry now.
19:19 "This is our new mommy" what is there to say?
19:23 It is so amazing that God...
19:25 we serve a God who, from 14, heard your prayer
19:30 who saved you that day
19:33 because you became converted that day
19:36 and was fitting you, Uncle Jackie, to be her husband.
19:41 After the Conference was over and she went home,
19:44 now, He didn't talk to me like He talked to her,
19:48 saying, "this is your wife"
19:49 but I couldn't get her out of my mind.
19:52 So, finally I said, "I need to call her"
19:55 which I did, she had given me her number,
19:58 and... went on from there.
20:04 That is tremendous, really, tremendous.
20:08 I think, Yvonne, I would like to say
20:12 that when I made a decision at 14... that's very important
20:16 that you make a decision who's going to lead in your life
20:20 I made a decision
20:21 and then God followed through on my decision.
20:24 God doesn't make us do anything, He gives us the choice,
20:27 the power of choice,
20:28 and He gave me the power of choice,
20:31 and I made a decision when I get married,
20:34 if I should get married,
20:35 that God would do the choosing for me
20:38 and He followed through, He is awesome.
20:40 He's awesome.
20:42 Oh yeah, I would have no other friend.
20:43 Yes, yes, yes.
20:45 Another element in that story is
20:46 meeting her again, she lived in Buffalo,
20:52 near Niagara Falls, and during our communication,
21:00 I said, "How about us getting together?"
21:04 So I went to visit them, they invited me to their home
21:08 to spend a weekend, now get this now, a weekend,
21:12 three days, Friday, Saturday, Sunday.
21:15 Now, we had met... we had seen each other
21:18 once or twice, just once?
21:20 We had not seen each other since we had met,
21:23 Lord have mercy.
21:25 But what an intense three days!
21:28 We got to talking about everything.
21:32 We drove over from Buffalo
21:35 over to the Niagara side of the Falls,
21:37 and it was just... we went from A to Z.
21:40 A to Z...
21:42 I mean, we just were in it about children...
21:44 About life and goals and children and what have you...
21:49 and on the second day, I'm standing up at the Falls
21:54 looking at the Falls, and I kept looking at her
21:59 I don't know really going on in my mind,
22:02 but I kept looking at her, we got home that night
22:07 Well, I said to myself, "This feels good. "
22:13 Hmmm...
22:15 When he says "Home," we were at my parents' home
22:19 because we were staying with my parents.
22:21 And there we were continuing to talk and what have you
22:25 and by that time I was preparing to leave
22:28 the second day now and she was fixing me lunch
22:31 and she and her mother were chatting about
22:35 what was going on.
22:37 While I was fixing lunch, my mom was fixing the lunch,
22:43 she came by and whispered,
22:45 "Put a little letter in his lunch"
22:47 Oh, she's too much, she's too much!
22:50 She got everybody involved...
22:51 Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
22:54 That he would read on his way home while traveling, you know.
22:58 So she took me to the bus stop and I was preparing to leave
23:02 we had about a 30-minute to an hour wait
23:06 for the bus to get going
23:07 and I sat there and looked at her.
23:10 I could feel him staring at me, I just felt it,
23:13 I said, "Stop looking at me. "
23:15 You were slaying... you were slaying, I love it.
23:18 So what happened at the bus?
23:19 The next words out of my mouth were,
23:22 "Would you be willing to marry me?"
23:26 And you had just gotten together for the first date?
23:29 This was the second time.
23:31 And my answer was, "Yes. "
23:33 Oh! now, would you recommend that to other people?
23:38 No... no...
23:41 Well, you see, it's...
23:43 we can't go into that at this time
23:45 but God's in charge,
23:46 you have to allow Him to do what He does and you will know.
23:51 And you knew that it was a "God thing. "
23:53 I knew, yeah... right.
23:55 So, that brings us to what you've done with this book,
23:58 tell us about the book that's coming out, this devotional...
24:01 and what kinds of things you're going to talk about.
24:04 Well, quickly... our children gave us a big celebration
24:08 for our 50th Anniversary and out of that,
24:12 our daughter created a little bookmark
24:16 with 50 tips on becoming a professional lover.
24:22 Give us a few of those tips real quick.
24:26 One was, to follow God's pattern...
24:29 Okay.
24:31 the other was "A woman needs to know how a man thinks"
24:36 "A man needs to know how a woman thinks"
24:40 I don't have the bookmark in front of me.
24:43 I have the... well, from the book itself,
24:46 you have: Pattern your love after Christ and His church,
24:49 structure your love around all the principles
24:52 of 1st Corinthians 13, doing things God's way,
24:55 love is a commitment not a feeling,
24:57 choose to be happy,
24:58 so each of these... is like a week.
25:01 Yeah, one a week, and the idea is,
25:04 you read your information for that week,
25:07 then you have some work to do for that week,
25:09 you and your spouse will work on these things together
25:11 for the week by trial and error,
25:15 And remember that love is not love
25:18 until the loved one says so.
25:20 Hmmm...
25:22 People think they're loving one another
25:24 but they're really doing it their way, their style...
25:27 Their perception of love and that's quite natural
25:30 but we're learning now how to love professionally.
25:33 All right, all right.
25:35 That's the difference.
25:36 All right... and let's put your website up too
25:37 so that we have that website it's going to be on the screen
25:41 so that people can go to that and find out
25:43 and doing Webinars as well, because traveling is a lot
25:48 but now people can just call in and have a Webinar,
25:52 tell us a little bit about the Webinar,
25:54 what are you going to talk about during the Webinar.
25:57 The kinds of things that are on the bookmark
26:00 and one a week... one a month and...
26:05 The point is to have people have an opportunity
26:09 to interact with us, to gain from our experience
26:14 or we'll gain from theirs, you know,
26:16 you're always learning, you never reach the top
26:19 you're always climbing toward the top
26:22 that's got us at the top as a Leader.
26:24 And this 50 years of marriage also includes
26:28 over 40 years of teaching "Marriage and Family"
26:32 at the Oakwood University
26:34 and Seminars all over the Country
26:39 and throughout the Caribbean.
26:41 So with the Webinars, we'll be able to do it
26:45 without the traveling.
26:48 And I'm a Cancer survivor, going to my third year
26:52 wondering what I'm going to do
26:55 and my children said to me,
26:58 "Why not revive your work,
27:00 you've been teaching new Seminars
27:05 for over 40 years
27:08 get back to work... "
27:11 And you can do it right from there.
27:13 I mean, that's awesome.
27:15 "Get back to work, you don't have to travel anymore. "
27:17 Will you come back when you've done the book?
27:21 Oh, we'd be delighted to come back,
27:23 my son will drive us, if Al will drive us back.
27:26 That would be so wonderful
27:30 and if you want to get touch with the Thomases,
27:32 go to their website, TheProfessionalLover. net
27:34 check it out, find out... there are going to be a lot of
27:36 holiday-specific types of Webinars,
27:39 so check that... that Website,
27:41 go there and check out their love...
27:45 be a professional lover.
27:47 I love that, I think that is too cute,
27:50 I love that,
27:51 thank you so much for being with us.
27:53 Thank you. Thank you for having us come.
27:54 And thank you so much for tuning in
27:56 we're so blessed that you're here,
27:58 make sure you tune in next time because you know what?
28:01 It just wouldn't be the same without you.


Revised 2016-02-09