Participants: Yvonne Lewis (Host), Claude & Jocelyn Thomas
Series Code: UBR
Program Code: UBR000170A
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00:01 Wouldn't it be great to have some bite-sized portions
00:03 of love prescriptions? 00:05 Well, stay tuned to meet a couple 00:07 that has the answers you need 00:08 to make your relationship special. 00:10 My name is Yvonne Lewis 00:12 and you're watching Urban Report. 00:37 Hello and welcome to Urban Report. 00:39 My guests today are Claude and Jocelyn Thomas 00:42 Authors and Family Counselors 00:44 and in the interest of full disclosure, 00:47 my aunt and uncle. 00:48 Welcome to Urban Report, yeah... 00:51 Thank you Yvonne. Glad to be here. 00:52 Good to see you darling. 00:54 You guys are here... 00:55 my whole life... ever since... 00:58 well I've know Uncle Jackie longer than I've known Aunt Jo 01:03 but you guys have been such an example to me 01:08 of what a real, Godly marriage should look like, 01:12 I mean... and everybody who knows you 01:16 like... when you think about great marriages, 01:19 you guys... 01:20 you guys really do praise the Lord. 01:22 Amen, amen... Praise the Lord. 01:24 An epitome of a great marriage and that has turned into... 01:28 your marriage and your knowledge about relationships 01:33 has turned into a ministry... 01:35 tell us about that journey how did that happen? 01:38 Well it happened when I went to Andrews 01:43 to work on my Master's and Doctoral studies, 01:48 and I just found that 01:53 the thing that I had been studying 01:56 during the '70s... study really began seriously 02:03 on marriage and family relationships 02:07 and I picked up on that at Andrews, 02:11 I took courses in Family Life, Marriage and Family life, 02:15 well, I was studying 02:18 Educational Psychology and Counseling and what have you... 02:22 and that just became my groove. 02:24 Okay, all right... 02:26 And I began to look at it seriously 02:29 especially when I discovered 02:33 that the conclusions that I was reading 02:37 in the studies that were going on 02:38 really fit well 02:46 with what I was reading in the Bible 02:49 about love, you know... 02:54 and when I read in Ellen White that love is not a feeling, 03:01 it's a principle, a way of behaving 03:06 that one has to come to learn and practice 03:10 to understand how to really relate to the opposite sex 03:16 and that intrigued me 03:19 and one of my professors that was on the verge of retiring 03:28 had a group that he was mentoring 03:34 Jo and I joined the group and listened to his Seminars 03:41 and we discussed what was going on in the Bible 03:43 and so forth... and that got more and more intriguing 03:48 and I said to Jo, "We'd like to do that" 03:53 We like to do that... you know... and... 03:57 Doing the Seminars... conducting the Seminars. 04:01 Oh, okay, okay, and so you brought Aunt Jo 04:04 into the mix and got her involved... 04:07 Into the mix... right... 04:09 It was awkward at first 04:11 because he is the professor... and the teacher... 04:13 it was a little awkward at first as we stand before the group 04:16 but I had my good practice with my family at home 04:20 so, after a while it became natural for me 04:23 standing up and talking and sharing about it. 04:26 We really got good at that... 04:28 that sharing... really... 04:30 incidences that occurred within our family 04:32 to help people to know that they're normal 04:34 and we're normal, it's a work in progress, I guess 04:38 a work in progress... family... 04:40 What a great thing to do because 04:42 so many times people wonder, 04:44 "Is my situation the only one of its kind, 04:47 am I unique, are we unique, 04:50 are we kind of sick," sometimes it's kind of sick, 04:54 but then, with you guys, you were able to say, 04:57 "This is what goes on... 04:58 some of these things go on in a normal family" 05:01 and so you were able to help people to know 05:04 that they're okay. 05:06 Well, the big thing about it was 05:08 that the problems that you have... can be fixed. 05:12 All right, all right. 05:14 And of course, people enjoy that, you know, 05:18 I said, "But you got to work at it" 05:20 they have to work hard at it, 05:22 which is where this idea of being a professional lover came. 05:26 Come on now, I love that 05:28 now... is that the name... 05:29 you are writing a devotional book, correct? 05:33 Right, right. 05:34 What's the title? 05:36 Becoming a professional lover. 05:39 Becoming a professional lover... 05:41 now you know... that's kind of... 05:43 I like that... I like that, it sounds very, 05:46 what's the word? Assured... 05:49 Yvonne, Yvonne, let me share something with you 05:52 one of my tools that I use when I'm reading and studying 05:57 is the dictionary... Okay... 05:58 and I actually looked up what a "profession" is 06:02 before we get to "professional" 06:04 "a profession is a calling requiring specialized knowledge 06:09 and often requiring specialized academic preparation" 06:14 keep in mind now, we're talking about the family 06:17 so when Claude says that he is a "professional lover" 06:20 "a professional is one that engages in 06:23 activity professionally" so now, husband and wife, 06:28 marriage and family, it's a profession. 06:31 It's something that you need to go to school, 06:34 learn... not necessarily a school building 06:36 but you're learning from God's Word, 06:39 who is the pattern of family life, 06:42 He created it, so that, 06:44 if I want to be a "professional lover" 06:46 like the profession, 06:47 like the professor... who is God... 06:49 then I must study His Word 06:51 and He has given us the pattern, 06:54 as to how to be like Him, 06:55 I love that... 06:57 so it really becomes... it's beautiful, 06:59 it's a beautiful thing, 07:00 and you're not out there by yourself, 07:02 or by yourselves. 07:04 So there are... then these principles 07:07 for family life that can be pulled 07:11 or extrapolated from the Word, from the Spirit of Prophecy 07:14 and applied to make a family successful. 07:16 Yes. Exactly. 07:18 And you guys have been married for how many years? 07:21 Fifty years... 07:22 He'd like to say 51 now because we are in our 51st year. 07:26 So what would you say to someone 07:33 who has either been married several times 07:37 or has not been successful in one marriage, 07:41 what would you say to them about how... 07:44 what is it that keeps you guys together, 07:48 what makes a marriage successful? 07:50 When basic needs are met, 07:55 when I said that marriage is not a feeling 07:58 love is not a feeling, it's a way of behaving 08:02 and the operational definition of that for me 08:06 came from the story of the Good Samaritan 08:11 and knowing that 08:16 there was not a whole lot of good feeling 08:20 between them the Good Samaritan came along 08:23 and saw this wounded man by the road 08:25 and was prompted to go over and help him out, 08:29 stayed with him, fixed him up, 08:32 when that didn't work 08:34 during this little time they had together 08:37 took him to an Inn, 08:39 stayed with him overnight kept working with him 08:43 and when he found that he needed more help, 08:46 then he went and said to the Innkeeper, 08:49 "I want you to just keep working with him 08:52 until he is fully healed 08:56 and when I come back from my journey, 08:59 I'll pay you whatever it costs to do it" 09:02 so out of that, 09:04 I learned that from God's perspective 09:08 an operation or definition of love 09:11 would be using my time, energy and resources 09:15 to satisfy the legitimate needs of another human being 09:21 and minister to their happiness and personal well-being. 09:25 I love that... 09:27 And then I discovered, 09:29 reading through 1 Corinthians 13 09:33 that love... not only has meaning, 09:36 it has structure, 09:37 and all those principles that are listed there 09:40 in 1st Corinthians 13, was a part of that structure. 09:43 Unpack that for us a little bit for us. 09:47 Well, you know, it starts off by saying 09:53 that if you just say the words, talk love... 09:58 you're like a sounding gong in a tinkling cymbal. 10:03 Nothing's really going on. 10:06 I don't feel loved, you're saying nice things 10:09 but I know the real deal. 10:11 But if you deal with the principles related to that 10:17 that they list in 1st Corinthians 13, 10:20 then, you're not just talking about it, 10:24 you're actually dealing with those necessary elements 10:29 that make love... love... 10:32 Hmmm... hmm... hmmm... 10:34 And then of course, when it comes to relationships, 10:39 you know, the chapter ends 10:41 by saying there are three primary principles 10:45 faith, hope and love, but the greatest of these 10:49 is love. Hmmm... hmmm... 10:52 And of course, when you think about God... 10:54 that's how He defines Himself, 10:57 in 1st John it says, "God is love. " 11:02 Hmmm... hmmm... 11:03 And those that love, the way God says to love, 11:09 right... can meet those needs 11:18 and produce happiness and joy in their relationships. 11:23 So how does that play out in... in your relationship, 11:28 how do you apply those principles 11:31 to your relationship? 11:32 That's what I wanted to share and that is that 11:36 my goal... before I even met "a husband," 11:40 anybody... my goal was to satisfy... 11:45 to love someone so well the way God said to love them 11:49 that nobody else would want them 11:51 they would just be that spoiled, they'd be totally mine... 11:54 And I am spoiled indeed... 11:57 I know you are... so precious... 11:59 and I made it a study, I really did, 12:04 it's... professionally I went to school to become a nurse, 12:09 which I did become, but I had to go to school, 12:12 I had to practice, I had to take tests, 12:14 it was a profession that I was seeking to become involved with, 12:18 and to do that for a husband, 12:22 for a man that I chose to love, 12:26 I put forth all that same effort, 12:29 that was just my personal goal. 12:31 I think that's so beautiful, 12:33 I wish more women and men would do that. 12:36 I think today, we think of... 12:38 we don't think about marriage as something 12:40 that you have to study or prepare for. 12:42 You grow up, you get married, 12:45 you go to school, you get married, 12:47 you have children, you get old, 12:48 it starts all over again... 12:50 Yeah, yeah, yeah... 12:51 But it is something that calls for effort, 12:55 for studying, for understanding, 12:57 and, of course, if you want to learn the right way, 13:00 go to the source... I can't say that enough 13:03 and we want to help people 13:07 to achieve the happiness that we have achieved. 13:09 It's so evident, when people know you 13:14 and they meet you 13:15 that you have a special relationship, 13:17 you still hold hands, 13:19 you're still very loving toward each other, 13:21 and affectionate toward each other, 13:23 and it's just... to me... 13:25 it's such a beautiful thing to see 13:27 because it's so rare, it's just such a rarity, 13:30 let's go back for a second and talk a little bit about 13:33 how you two met, because, 13:36 the whole thing was just so God-ordained... 13:39 It was God ordained... 13:41 tell me how you met, let's hear a little bit of 13:43 each of your perceptions of each other. 13:45 Well, I could begin with saying that 13:47 when I was 14 years old, I was visiting an aunt and uncle 13:51 for the summer, and as my habit, at nighttime, 13:55 I was kneeling by my bed to pray... 13:58 and my uncle came in, he was a big teaser, 14:00 he said, "Jo, are you praying for a husband?" 14:03 I said, "Uncle George, I'm only 14 years old," 14:06 he said, "no... " he got serious, 14:08 he said, "Begin now to ask the Lord, 14:10 should you get a husband, for Him to choose your husband" 14:13 and that stayed with me, so all through high school, 14:16 college and et cetera, I enjoyed myself 14:19 dating and whatever because 14:21 when I would get ready to marry, 14:23 should there be marriage in my future, 14:26 that God would do the choosing, 14:28 and I already told... I always told God 14:29 that He would be the one to choose, 14:31 so that's... that's how I met this man. 14:34 I was the Youth Leader... 14:38 Let me tell the story from there. 14:42 I was at a critical point in my life, 14:45 I had lost a wife, had three children 14:48 and there was a grieving for about six months 14:55 and my aunt and uncle who were very avid youth leaders 15:02 in the church... there was a Youth Convention 15:07 going on in Atlantic City 15:08 and they asked me to drive them to this convention, 15:14 of course, reluctantly, 15:15 I didn't really want to go because 15:17 I would meet folks that I knew and they'd be asking 15:21 how I'm doing since the loss of my wife and everything 15:24 but I agreed finally to go, 15:27 I was sitting at the last Sabbath 15:31 of that Conference and a young man was preaching 15:37 talking about his conversion, his redevelopment 15:42 and what have you, and I heard a voice in my mind 15:46 that said, "Claude, are you ready 15:51 to give your life to me fully 15:55 so that I can help you continue to develop 16:00 and become the man I want you to be?" 16:04 And with tears streaming down my face 16:08 I said, "Yes, Lord, I'm ready, I'm ready... 16:15 you saved my wife, now save me, save me" 16:21 and from there... after the sermon was over 16:27 and we were sitting around, 16:28 an aunt in the family came rushing up to me 16:33 and grabbed me by my hand and said, 16:37 "I want you to meet Jo. " 16:38 Meanwhile, before I got to him, knowing that another aunt 16:44 see... these older aunts, 16:46 they're working on things for him, 16:48 his family is involved... 16:50 but this aunt grabbed me and she said, 16:52 "I want you to meet Jackie, have you met Jackie? 16:54 That's his nickname. Yeah, yes. 16:55 And I said, "No" and I was shy about it 16:59 and I must say that I had gone to this Conference 17:03 looking good because I'm on the hunt. 17:06 At 26... you look ready... 17:10 So if you go shopping, look nice, play the role, 17:14 so, as I was approaching him though, Yvonne, 17:18 the thing that really sticks out in my mind is that I heard, 17:21 "Jo, this is the man that you're going to marry" 17:25 and no one's around, no one heard that, 17:28 but I knew, God was telling me, 17:30 "Jo, this is the man that you're going to marry" 17:33 That was the answer to the 14-year-old prayer. 17:36 Yes, yes, yes. 17:37 So when I got to him, I didn't know him, 17:39 I'd never met him, I'd heard about him 17:42 in the loss of his wife and I felt very sorry about that 17:45 and I was so sad when I heard about it 17:49 but when I got to him, he stood up, 17:52 just very debonair, 17:55 and I don't know what his voice was before, 17:59 but his voice was very deep. 18:00 He probably took it down a couple of octaves. 18:04 He said, "Well, hello... " I was so impressed. 18:07 Oh, that's so good. 18:10 And then when I got to him, Yvonne, 18:11 he was sitting next to a young lady, 18:13 because he was a good catch at this point in life, 18:17 and his aunt just grabbed her and took her away 18:21 and he offered me a seat... 18:23 Oh, she got the old bum's rush like, "Okay, away from here... " 18:29 It's really funny but that's the beginning, 18:34 that was the beginning and things went very rapidly, 18:39 I mean, when God does something, He doesn't... 18:42 it's God doing it, you know. 18:44 One of the unique things about that meeting, 18:47 my little daughter, who was just going on three... 18:52 No, she was four. 18:53 going on four... she just kept looking at Jo 18:58 and took her by the hand. 19:03 And, you know, your grandmother, "Mama" as we called her, 19:09 wanted to take her and take her to the restroom, 19:11 she said, "No," and she held my hand, 19:12 she said, "this is our new mommy" 19:15 I mean, it was the Holy Spirit. 19:17 Oh, you're going to make me cry now. 19:19 "This is our new mommy" what is there to say? 19:23 It is so amazing that God... 19:25 we serve a God who, from 14, heard your prayer 19:30 who saved you that day 19:33 because you became converted that day 19:36 and was fitting you, Uncle Jackie, to be her husband. 19:41 After the Conference was over and she went home, 19:44 now, He didn't talk to me like He talked to her, 19:48 saying, "this is your wife" 19:49 but I couldn't get her out of my mind. 19:52 So, finally I said, "I need to call her" 19:55 which I did, she had given me her number, 19:58 and... went on from there. 20:04 That is tremendous, really, tremendous. 20:08 I think, Yvonne, I would like to say 20:12 that when I made a decision at 14... that's very important 20:16 that you make a decision who's going to lead in your life 20:20 I made a decision 20:21 and then God followed through on my decision. 20:24 God doesn't make us do anything, He gives us the choice, 20:27 the power of choice, 20:28 and He gave me the power of choice, 20:31 and I made a decision when I get married, 20:34 if I should get married, 20:35 that God would do the choosing for me 20:38 and He followed through, He is awesome. 20:40 He's awesome. 20:42 Oh yeah, I would have no other friend. 20:43 Yes, yes, yes. 20:45 Another element in that story is 20:46 meeting her again, she lived in Buffalo, 20:52 near Niagara Falls, and during our communication, 21:00 I said, "How about us getting together?" 21:04 So I went to visit them, they invited me to their home 21:08 to spend a weekend, now get this now, a weekend, 21:12 three days, Friday, Saturday, Sunday. 21:15 Now, we had met... we had seen each other 21:18 once or twice, just once? 21:20 We had not seen each other since we had met, 21:23 Lord have mercy. 21:25 But what an intense three days! 21:28 We got to talking about everything. 21:32 We drove over from Buffalo 21:35 over to the Niagara side of the Falls, 21:37 and it was just... we went from A to Z. 21:40 A to Z... 21:42 I mean, we just were in it about children... 21:44 About life and goals and children and what have you... 21:49 and on the second day, I'm standing up at the Falls 21:54 looking at the Falls, and I kept looking at her 21:59 I don't know really going on in my mind, 22:02 but I kept looking at her, we got home that night 22:07 Well, I said to myself, "This feels good. " 22:13 Hmmm... 22:15 When he says "Home," we were at my parents' home 22:19 because we were staying with my parents. 22:21 And there we were continuing to talk and what have you 22:25 and by that time I was preparing to leave 22:28 the second day now and she was fixing me lunch 22:31 and she and her mother were chatting about 22:35 what was going on. 22:37 While I was fixing lunch, my mom was fixing the lunch, 22:43 she came by and whispered, 22:45 "Put a little letter in his lunch" 22:47 Oh, she's too much, she's too much! 22:50 She got everybody involved... 22:51 Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 22:54 That he would read on his way home while traveling, you know. 22:58 So she took me to the bus stop and I was preparing to leave 23:02 we had about a 30-minute to an hour wait 23:06 for the bus to get going 23:07 and I sat there and looked at her. 23:10 I could feel him staring at me, I just felt it, 23:13 I said, "Stop looking at me. " 23:15 You were slaying... you were slaying, I love it. 23:18 So what happened at the bus? 23:19 The next words out of my mouth were, 23:22 "Would you be willing to marry me?" 23:26 And you had just gotten together for the first date? 23:29 This was the second time. 23:31 And my answer was, "Yes. " 23:33 Oh! now, would you recommend that to other people? 23:38 No... no... 23:41 Well, you see, it's... 23:43 we can't go into that at this time 23:45 but God's in charge, 23:46 you have to allow Him to do what He does and you will know. 23:51 And you knew that it was a "God thing. " 23:53 I knew, yeah... right. 23:55 So, that brings us to what you've done with this book, 23:58 tell us about the book that's coming out, this devotional... 24:01 and what kinds of things you're going to talk about. 24:04 Well, quickly... our children gave us a big celebration 24:08 for our 50th Anniversary and out of that, 24:12 our daughter created a little bookmark 24:16 with 50 tips on becoming a professional lover. 24:22 Give us a few of those tips real quick. 24:26 One was, to follow God's pattern... 24:29 Okay. 24:31 the other was "A woman needs to know how a man thinks" 24:36 "A man needs to know how a woman thinks" 24:40 I don't have the bookmark in front of me. 24:43 I have the... well, from the book itself, 24:46 you have: Pattern your love after Christ and His church, 24:49 structure your love around all the principles 24:52 of 1st Corinthians 13, doing things God's way, 24:55 love is a commitment not a feeling, 24:57 choose to be happy, 24:58 so each of these... is like a week. 25:01 Yeah, one a week, and the idea is, 25:04 you read your information for that week, 25:07 then you have some work to do for that week, 25:09 you and your spouse will work on these things together 25:11 for the week by trial and error, 25:15 And remember that love is not love 25:18 until the loved one says so. 25:20 Hmmm... 25:22 People think they're loving one another 25:24 but they're really doing it their way, their style... 25:27 Their perception of love and that's quite natural 25:30 but we're learning now how to love professionally. 25:33 All right, all right. 25:35 That's the difference. 25:36 All right... and let's put your website up too 25:37 so that we have that website it's going to be on the screen 25:41 so that people can go to that and find out 25:43 and doing Webinars as well, because traveling is a lot 25:48 but now people can just call in and have a Webinar, 25:52 tell us a little bit about the Webinar, 25:54 what are you going to talk about during the Webinar. 25:57 The kinds of things that are on the bookmark 26:00 and one a week... one a month and... 26:05 The point is to have people have an opportunity 26:09 to interact with us, to gain from our experience 26:14 or we'll gain from theirs, you know, 26:16 you're always learning, you never reach the top 26:19 you're always climbing toward the top 26:22 that's got us at the top as a Leader. 26:24 And this 50 years of marriage also includes 26:28 over 40 years of teaching "Marriage and Family" 26:32 at the Oakwood University 26:34 and Seminars all over the Country 26:39 and throughout the Caribbean. 26:41 So with the Webinars, we'll be able to do it 26:45 without the traveling. 26:48 And I'm a Cancer survivor, going to my third year 26:52 wondering what I'm going to do 26:55 and my children said to me, 26:58 "Why not revive your work, 27:00 you've been teaching new Seminars 27:05 for over 40 years 27:08 get back to work... " 27:11 And you can do it right from there. 27:13 I mean, that's awesome. 27:15 "Get back to work, you don't have to travel anymore. " 27:17 Will you come back when you've done the book? 27:21 Oh, we'd be delighted to come back, 27:23 my son will drive us, if Al will drive us back. 27:26 That would be so wonderful 27:30 and if you want to get touch with the Thomases, 27:32 go to their website, TheProfessionalLover. net 27:34 check it out, find out... there are going to be a lot of 27:36 holiday-specific types of Webinars, 27:39 so check that... that Website, 27:41 go there and check out their love... 27:45 be a professional lover. 27:47 I love that, I think that is too cute, 27:50 I love that, 27:51 thank you so much for being with us. 27:53 Thank you. Thank you for having us come. 27:54 And thank you so much for tuning in 27:56 we're so blessed that you're here, 27:58 make sure you tune in next time because you know what? 28:01 It just wouldn't be the same without you. |
Revised 2016-02-09