Participants: Yvonne Lewis (Host), Walt Heyer, Michael Carducci
Series Code: UBR
Program Code: UBR000178A
|
00:01 The following program discusses sensitive issues.
00:03 Parents are cautioned that some material 00:05 may be too candid for younger children. 00:10 Stay tuned to meet two men who are delivered from 00:14 gender identity confusion. 00:16 My name is Yvonne Lewis 00:18 and you're watching Urban Report. 00:43 Hello and welcome to Urban Report. 00:45 My guests today are Mike Carducci from 00:47 'Coming Out' Ministries 00:49 and Walt Heyer, Lecturer and Author. 00:51 I had a chance to talk with them 00:53 when they came here to be on our Dare to Dream Program 00:56 Pure Choices, 00:57 you won't believe the powerful way 01:00 God has worked in their lives. Take a look. 01:05 What a joy it is for me to be on the Set of Pure Choices 01:10 interviewing and talking to two amazing men of God. 01:17 Mike Carducci of 'Coming Out' Ministries 01:21 and Walt Heyer... Walt Heyer is a Lecturer 01:25 and Author and both of you have amazing experiences 01:29 and I asked Mike... who was here 01:33 with the rest of 'Coming Out' Ministries 01:35 to do this series... 01:36 they came to do this whole series on Pure Choices, 01:41 and when I heard Walt's testimony, 01:44 I knew that you had to hear this. 01:46 So, I got Mike to come join me 01:49 and Mike, I want you to just... kind of just... you know, 01:52 ask any questions that you might have 01:54 from Walt as we have Walt here, 01:55 and I knew that we only had Walt for 01:57 a little bit of time so we grabbed you up 02:00 and you to do this and so thank you so much 02:02 both of you for being with us. 02:04 Walt: Yeah, my pleasure. 02:05 So, let's get in... Walt, your story to me 02:09 it's just so profound because what I see in Media 02:14 is this thrust... this push to accept the whole transgender 02:22 movement, not only to accept it 02:24 but to promote it and so I'd like for our Viewers 02:29 to hear about your journey and then 02:31 we're just going to kind of ask you questions as we go along. 02:33 Walt: Sure. 02:34 Tell us about your journey, how did this whole thing start? 02:38 Yeah, that's great, 02:39 I'm so happy to be able to do this because 02:42 people do need to get a better understanding 02:44 of how this all gets started, in my case, 02:46 I was four-years old and whether it was my idea 02:50 or my grandmother's, I don't know 02:52 but she started crossdressing me 02:54 and she really enjoyed crossdressing me 02:58 but we did it in secret, 02:59 it was "grandma's secret" with me 03:01 and over a period of time, she began to increase this 03:07 to the point... she was a Seamstress 03:08 so she made this purple, chiffon evening dress, 03:12 this long, flowing evening dress 03:14 that she just took a lot of pride in 03:15 now keep in mind, I'm four-years old 03:18 and so, here she is... dressing me up 03:20 and she's fawning over me, she's making a big fuss over me 03:24 about being a girl and obviously, to me, 03:27 she liked me much better as a girl than she did as a boy 03:31 which... I always say plants a seed in my mind that 03:35 "Gee, there must be something wrong with me 03:37 if she's liking me better as a girl than as a boy... " 03:40 that becomes a conflict within myself 03:42 about who I am and... 03:45 so this went on for a couple of years... 03:47 every time she had the opportunity to babysit me 03:50 which was almost every weekend. 03:52 Yvonne: Were you an only child? 03:53 No, I had a brother and my brother got to go 03:56 to my other grandma's house. 03:58 Neither one of them wanted us both 03:59 so I got this grandma, 04:01 so I got this grandma... 04:03 I always teasingly say, 04:05 "Well, he got the good grandma 04:06 and I'm not sure I got the good one" but... 04:07 so this grandma... 04:09 it was in the LA area and it was behind a junkyard 04:13 in a small house and grandpa was a tow truck driver 04:17 and he was gone most of the time so when he was gone, 04:20 this is what grandma and I were doing. 04:22 And so, eventually, after a couple of years, 04:27 I really started kind of enjoying 04:30 the love and the affirmation and the encouragement 04:33 that I was getting... because she seemed to be very happy. 04:35 So it was making me happy that she was happy. 04:38 Now, do you know if she ever did this to anybody else? 04:42 To my knowledge, no. 04:44 Was she your maternal or paternal? 04:46 It was my mother's mother. 04:47 Okay, so she was dressing your mom up 04:50 in just regular "girl" clothes but there were no other siblings 04:54 that you had that she was doing this with, just you? 04:57 No, just me... yeah, and like I said, 04:59 she seemed to enjoy it a great deal 05:02 which made me enjoy it and so eventually, I decided, 05:07 "Gee, I want to wear this dress when I get home 05:09 but I'd have to... " I knew because it was a secret 05:11 I'd have to do it in secret 05:13 but I took the dress and put it in a brown bag 05:15 one time when dad was coming to pick me up 05:18 and take me back home, I got it home 05:20 and I stuffed it in the bottom drawer of my dresser 05:23 and a few days later, my mother found the dress 05:26 well then... there was a big explosion in the house, 05:29 "What are you doing with the dress?" 05:31 "How did this come about?" 05:32 So there was this big explanation 05:34 and when they found out 05:35 that grandma had been crossdressing me 05:37 for two-and-a-half years, 05:39 it was a tough place to live for a while 05:41 I mean... because they were in conflict, 05:44 I couldn't go to grandma's anymore 05:46 then I felt like it was my fault, 05:47 that I had done something wrong 05:49 so I was bad... 05:50 and then Dad, who was a police officer, 05:53 auxiliary police officer at that time 05:56 decided that the way to "man" me up 05:59 was to use some heavy discipline like hardwood floor planks 06:03 and things like that to discipline me 06:06 probably today it would be considered very harsh 06:10 and so, that was... I really believed though 06:13 within him, he was struggling with trying to... 06:17 he didn't know what to do, like most parents don't. 06:20 I mean, what do you do? 06:21 Here you have this situation 06:23 and it's a dynamic... in the family, 06:25 it's very difficult, you get a wife, 06:28 it's her mother, you get, you know, in-law... 06:30 the whole thing is just a whole wicked dynamic. 06:33 And my brother is kind of sitting back 06:35 watching this whole thing 06:36 and not knowing what to do himself. 06:37 How did your brother relate to you during this time 06:41 as all of this attention was on you, 06:43 how your brother react? 06:45 He kind of dove into silence and got into reading books 06:49 he just kind of disconnected and he became an avid reader 06:54 and he just read all the time book after book after book 06:59 and he was a year-and-a- half older than I was 07:02 and so that was his way of dealing with it, 07:06 he was kind of a... I would say, 07:07 "a strong, quiet intellect" in the family. 07:10 Hmmm... hmmm... 07:12 Can I bring up a thought, 07:13 one of the things that we have in common 07:15 is that we had very aggressive, masculine fathers 07:18 and because of my rejection of that masculinity 07:22 is why I ended up going towards my mother. 07:24 Do you think that your father's over-masculine influence 07:28 had some reaction as well? 07:31 Because he became abusive and overbearing, 07:34 is it possible that along with the crossdressing 07:37 with your grandmother, that had an influence as well? 07:40 Well, sure, I think anytime you get 07:43 any kind of heavy discipline like that... it's going to bound 07:46 it's bound to have some negative influence on you 07:49 that... you know... all of a sudden, 07:50 you're now bad with grandma 07:52 and bad with dad, I mean, 07:53 the things you're just not... 07:54 it's hard to know what to do 07:56 when you're six- or seven-years old. 07:58 How do you work through all these ailments? 08:00 So yeah, I think, definitely the discipline played a part in it. 08:04 Well, my thought would be that if your father was loving 08:08 and nurturing, then, 08:10 because you already had this identification 08:12 with the feminine side, imagine how that could have 08:15 drawn you into a masculine identity 08:17 if you had a father that was understanding 08:19 and receptive and nurturing. 08:21 Well, you know, it's funny, my dad was actually 08:24 kind of two-sided that way because part of him 08:26 wanted... he wanted to be with me 08:29 because I think he wanted to have that influence 08:31 so he spent time with me but I think he was always troubled 08:35 by what he knew grandma was doing 08:37 and I could almost see the pain in him... 08:39 in his own way, trying to deal with me. 08:42 He bought me a little shovel one time... 08:44 a little red-handled shovel and I'd go out in the yard 08:47 and start to dig along... beside him, 08:49 that was kind of... one of the things he did 08:51 but he would have these periods where he was fine 08:54 and loving and caring 08:56 but he'd have times where it just... he was so frustrated 09:00 that... then his discipline just got out of hand, yeah. 09:04 I wanted to ask you about your grandma for a minute 09:08 because it's really interesting to me, 09:10 how young children get victimized and groomed 09:14 and it seems as though your grandma was... 09:18 she told you, "This is a secret" 09:20 and that's what "groomers" do, is it not? 09:23 Right. 09:24 They make sure that the children who are the victims 09:27 don't tell a soul, "Do not tell... " 09:30 Did she threaten you or was it a joyful little secret 09:34 like... our playful little secret? 09:36 Yeah, it was a playful... that's the way I'd describe it, 09:37 a playful secret but isn't it interesting 09:40 that, you know, a secret is always kind of... 09:43 I didn't know at the age of four or five... 09:44 but there's always an indication there's something wrong. 09:47 Hmmm... 09:48 Right, a secret means somebody's doing something wrong. 09:50 Hmmm... 09:52 And what troubles me today 09:54 is the same thing that I know today from 09:57 looking back at my life is that 09:58 when you crossdress a young boy... as a girl, 10:02 you're actually emotionally and psychologically 10:06 committing abuse on that child. 10:07 Unpack that... unpack that for us... 10:11 Anytime you are beginning to dis-assemble 10:15 by virtue of crossdressing and disassemble their identity, 10:20 what's happening? 10:21 You're impacting who they think they are 10:24 and it becomes very confusing, 10:25 it's no wonder they end up with "gender dysphoria. " 10:27 So, when you crossdress them, you're saying... 10:31 many things... you're signaled without the words. 10:34 One, there's something wrong with you... 10:36 one, you're better as a girl... one, I like you better as a girl 10:39 I prefer you... all these different things 10:42 are messages that... they don't have to speak 10:44 but you're saying them by the fact 10:46 that you're actually putting him in a dress 10:49 and then talking to them as though they're a young girl 10:52 and presenting them that way. 10:54 So, what do you say to that parent that says, 10:57 "Little Johnny likes dresses, 11:00 little Johnny wants to comb hair and play with hair 11:04 and do all of this 11:05 so I'm just letting little Johnny be who he is. 11:08 Well, you know, that is a troubling issue 11:10 for parents, no doubt, 11:12 if I were raising a child, 11:14 I think all kids are curious about their gender. 11:18 I also think it's a parent's responsibility 11:21 to teach them about who they are 11:23 and I don't think it's healthy if a kid asks a question 11:28 about girly things, 11:30 I think they still need to encourage them 11:32 and influence them in the same way 11:35 they were trained to do as a female... 11:37 they encourage him as a male, 11:38 take him out and buy him boy's clothes 11:40 and encourage them as a boy, 11:42 encourage them in ways that are not going to 11:44 offend their ideas 11:47 or suggestions that they might like a "girl" thing. 11:50 Find the creative way of getting them engaged 11:54 in doing "boy" things. 11:55 I think you can do that very easily 11:58 if you just sit back and not think, 12:01 "Oh, I have a transgender kid" 12:03 because that's what happens with the parents today 12:05 is... there's sort of this automatic idea 12:08 because a kid says, 12:10 "I like this dress or I like that. " 12:11 "Oh, I've got a transgender kid" 12:13 it's almost... like we're manufacturing 12:15 transgender kids today 12:17 faster than anything I've ever seen. 12:21 So, what I find interesting is that I think 12:23 the Scriptures really support that kind of idea 12:26 because... when it talks about how 12:28 men should not wear women's clothing 12:29 and women should not wear men's clothing 12:31 every time that I was playing "dress up" 12:34 every time that my aunt would tease my hair 12:36 and fix it to look like a girl, it was confirming 12:39 this gender dysphoria for me 12:41 because God said in Genesis, "I made the male and female" 12:45 and one of the things that He had to tell me even recently 12:48 is that, "No, I didn't make a mistake... I made you a male" 12:51 and even in Psalm 139 it talks about how 12:55 I knit together your very inward parts, you know 12:58 the intimate parts of you, He knew who I was 13:02 and who I was... supposed to be 13:03 so every time that you are dressed up in that dress, 13:06 every time that I was dressing up in my mother's clothes, 13:09 I was affirming my dissatisfaction 13:11 for the sex that I was born with. 13:13 And so, not only do you find that... 13:15 that the Scriptures, I think, support that, 13:17 but now there was something else 13:19 that you were bringing out about behavior... versus identity 13:23 which to me was shocking. 13:24 Yeah, I think it's so interesting, 13:26 I've come to the conclusion after all these years 13:28 that a transgender is a "behavior" 13:32 it's not an "identity. " 13:33 See... that... this... this is as eye-opening a concept 13:40 to me as the whole idea 13:43 of LGBT being a civil rights issue. 13:47 Because once you frame it a certain way, 13:50 and once you frame it a certain way, 13:53 then there are certain suppositions that follow 13:57 and so, what you're saying is that 14:00 this is not a "gender" issue so much 14:03 as a "behavior... " a set of behaviors... 14:06 Walt: That's right. 14:07 Yvonne: Unpack that some more for us. 14:09 Yeah, well, any time... we look at the word "behavior" 14:11 and if you look at the LGBT like... you're talking about, 14:14 you have "a behavior," their whole thing collapses 14:18 because they're basing everything 14:19 on the fact that they are "born that way," 14:21 that it's genetic 14:22 and what I'm saying is it's not genetic, 14:24 I haven't seen any evidence of it... that it's genetic 14:28 the only thing I've seen is that 14:30 we have pain in a child's life, 14:32 we have events where they're being crossdressed 14:34 which I think, crossdressing in of itself... 14:36 is abuse. 14:38 Hmmm... 14:39 And so, when you look at... some parent will tell me, 14:42 "Well, he's never had any trauma or anything in his life" 14:45 I said, "Were you crossdressing him?" 14:46 That's trauma, it's abusive 14:49 and today, we've come to this place where 14:53 we're accepting the idea of dressing boys as girls 14:57 and thinking that they're surviving this whole ideology 15:01 and they're not... and the best example of that 15:04 was a show that I saw in Network TV 15:07 where the young boy... the mother's being interviewed 15:09 and it's a long show where they're showing the kid 15:12 going to school and he'd been going to school 15:14 as a girl for some... three or four years 15:16 and in this one particular shot 15:19 the interviewer is talking to the mother, 15:21 the mother has the boy sitting at the dining table 15:24 and mom's combing the hair and she's talking about how 15:26 they're getting hormone blockers 15:29 and they're doing all these different things 15:31 and she's like... what reflected on me was 15:33 the fact that she was acting much like my grandmother did 15:36 so I really connected with this 15:38 and so she's combing the child's hair 15:40 and the interviewer is interviewing mom 15:43 and in this one amazing moment, the child turns his head back 15:48 and looks at mom and said, 15:50 "Would you love me if I was a boy?" 15:53 Wow! 15:56 so the child is actually saying, 16:00 "I sense that you want this for me. " 16:03 Exactly, exactly and then it began this process 16:09 with the camera rolling 16:11 where mom kind of stepped back, was a little shocked 16:13 and the boy says, 16:15 "Well, I'm not sure that I want to be a girl" 16:17 and mom says, 16:19 "Well, I've never heard this before" 16:20 but I think what's happening in this particular scene was 16:24 that mom was sort of pushing this agenda so hard 16:28 and she was wearing it almost like a badge of honor 16:31 that she has a transgender kid and she's on television 16:34 showing what she's doing 16:35 not realizing or not having anyone there 16:39 to suggest that this may be abusive and not healthy... 16:42 psychologically... for this kid, 16:44 and then the kid turns around and said, 16:46 "Would you love me if I was a boy?" 16:48 I mean... I wept... and I just couldn't believe 16:53 that mom was so forceful in this in pushing... 16:57 obviously pushing... 16:59 because they show... during the show 17:00 taking the boy to get hormone blockers... 17:03 it looked like it was her agenda and not the boy's. 17:06 That's what it sounds like 17:08 so, tell us some more about what happened with you. 17:10 How did you... from the time you were four, 17:13 how did you then deal with life? 17:18 After that seed had been planted what did you do? 17:21 Yeah, once that seed was planted... 17:23 and then... the two-and-a-half years expired 17:26 and I couldn't go to grandma's anymore, 17:29 I remember, sometime after that time 17:31 when I couldn't go to grandma's, 17:34 I woke up in the morning just weeping... crying... 17:38 I'm only seven years old and I'm crying 17:40 and everybody is upset, "Why are you crying?" 17:43 And I couldn't even explain why I was crying 17:46 but something was deeply broken within me 17:50 and I believe today as I look back, 17:52 my identity had been broken, I couldn't figure out who I was 17:56 and in the midst of this struggle... 17:59 I literally cried from morning until night, 18:03 here I was... seven years old... 18:04 my parents got fed up with me and left the house 18:08 and just said, "You stay here, 18:09 we don't even want to deal with you anymore. " 18:11 They didn't want to deal with the pain that I was feeling 18:14 and I couldn't explain where the pain was coming from 18:17 and I think when we see transgender children today 18:21 who identify in this behavior, 18:24 is that they can't explain where the pain is coming from, 18:27 they don't have the whole equipment, 18:29 tools and psychological ability to know the consequences 18:33 of what's going to happen down the road. 18:35 So, we're really doing a great disservice to young people 18:40 to suggest that they're a different gender 18:42 and then encouraging them to change genders because 18:45 we don't know the consequences. 18:47 Now they have school curriculums that are actually 18:50 trying to introduce this to Kindergarten-age kids 18:53 where... I have a client that actually 18:56 has a Day Care in a small town in Tennessee 18:58 and if she wants Government funding, 19:01 she has to allow the girls to dress up as boys 19:04 and the boys to dress up as girls. 19:05 And we're talking about zero to five-year-old children 19:08 if she wants Government funding. 19:10 Oh my! Mike, your experience 19:13 was kind of similar in that... you wanted to be a girl, 19:18 tell us a little bit about that. 19:20 Well, for me, it was Gender Dysphoria 19:22 but it was brought on basically because of the 19:24 defensive detachment that I had with my father, 19:26 it didn't come from my grandmother, 19:28 it was... the fact that... when I was at that age 19:31 where I was transitioning to my gender... 19:33 it was my father... and he... either wasn't available 19:36 because he was in the Navy, 19:37 so he'd be gone for three to six months at a time, 19:39 so, for a little boy between the ages of one and three, 19:42 that's almost half my life but then when my father was home 19:45 he was this hot-headed abusive Italian, 19:47 he was loud, he was angry 19:50 and so, at that time when I was transitioning, 19:52 he was frightening to me and very... it was undesirable, 19:57 his masculinity, so, in my defense, 19:59 even before I was conscious, I had detached from my father 20:01 and so the only example left was my mother 20:04 they talk about how every little child's identity 20:06 is like wet cement, 20:08 they don't know that they're male or female 20:10 and so, at this time when my cement was wet, 20:12 I returned back to my mother, she was soft, 20:15 I wanted to walk like her, talk like her, 20:17 and so my cement became hardened in the feminine, 20:20 and so I didn't know how to fix it, I was just a little boy, 20:23 but I thought that... I knew that something was wrong 20:25 the other kids were calling me names 20:28 and I knew that I was different than them 20:30 even though I wasn't sexualized 20:32 but for me, that's where it began. 20:34 You know, what I'm hearing 20:35 is... and what I've heard from the rest of your team 20:38 in 'Coming Out' Ministries as well, 20:40 is this brokenness, that there's some kind of trauma 20:46 that takes place early... in early childhood, 20:50 that causes this brokenness, 20:54 and where modern society has gotten off balance 20:59 is they don't use Jesus as the answer 21:01 everything else is the answer, 21:03 let Johnny dress up like Susie, 21:05 let Susie be Johnny, let... and... and... 21:09 the real deal is, well, you brought this up... 21:13 is... behavior versus gender identity. 21:17 Address the behavior. 21:19 That's exactly right and 21:21 today we're trying to take a behavior 21:25 and transform a behavior into an identity 21:28 and as a result of that, 21:30 what people don't seem to be able to pull together 21:34 like I can, at least I can see... 21:37 because I attempted suicide and... 21:39 Yvonne: At what age? 21:40 I was probably in my early forties, 21:43 I'd been struggling all this time 21:46 and 39... 40... somewhere in that... 21:49 I don't remember the exact time but I tried to commit suicide 21:52 and what we have with this population is 21:56 they attempt suicide at a rate above 40 percent 22:00 and the young people age group... 22:03 this was a study out of the State of Washington 22:06 and they said the age group between ten and twenty four 22:10 attempt suicide at the rate of around fifty percent. 22:14 So, I would ask anybody who has the ability to think 22:18 and reason a little bit that this... introducing... 22:22 this behavior to children is doing such damage 22:25 that they actually want to attempt suicide 22:28 at some point during this transition period 22:30 whether it's early or later in life 22:32 because it's so destructive to them, 22:35 we've taken away their core identity 22:37 and told them they're not who they are. 22:39 Hmmm... 22:40 So when that happened to you and you... before the forties... 22:44 let's talk about the teenage years a bit. 22:46 When you were a teenager, 22:48 with whom were you identifying at that point? 22:51 Were you more... acting more feminine or 22:54 were you acting masculine, 22:56 where was your head at that time? 22:58 Well, I was two sided... within... inside me... 23:02 I had the "girl in the purple dress" 23:04 and I gave her the name: Crystal West. 23:07 So she stayed inside and I presented myself 23:10 as Walt... outside... and in going to school 23:14 I had girlfriends, I ran track, 23:16 I played in football, I played basketball, 23:18 I did all the things, but inside me... was Crystal. 23:23 Yvonne: Were you attracted to boys? 23:25 Walt: No... 23:26 You were never attracted... you were never homosexual? 23:29 No, I never had any homosexual ideas or anything, 23:33 I was strictly heterosexual 23:35 with this "girl" living inside me that wanted to come out 23:39 but I knew back then the dangers 23:42 and not knowing myself what it was all about, 23:46 I had to deal with this solely on my own. 23:49 I mean, it's a long time ago that I was dealing with this 23:52 this is in the '50s... 23:54 so, I was something 23:57 fairly fresh and new if I would have "come out" that time. 24:00 Yvonne: You're looking good Brother. 24:02 Walt: Oh yeah, you know, thank you, 24:04 I've had a lot of work... 24:06 You know what I think is interesting though 24:09 is... just because someone has transgender ideation 24:13 doesn't mean that they're gay 24:15 and I think that a lot of times, 24:16 we put people in that compartment that 24:18 "Oh, if you're transgender, then you're gay" 24:20 but Walt, weren't you sharing with me 24:22 that... there's actually more transgender 24:24 that are still heterosexual rather than homosexual. 24:27 You know, it's true, 24:28 the vast majority of transgenders 24:31 are heterosexual, they're not homosexual, 24:33 they don't want to be homosexual 24:35 I mean, some of them will be drag queens 24:37 but they don't really want to have the full regiment 24:40 of surgery and change your identity in that way, 24:43 they like to play with it, 24:44 they like to play the female role 24:46 but they don't want to become a female. 24:48 Yeah, let's talk about the surgery for a minute 24:51 because you actually underwent the surgery, 24:54 what was going on in your head 24:56 just prior to the surgery? 24:59 Yeah, well I... you know... this whole "pain thing" 25:02 that started when I was a young child, 25:04 I had carried on... 25:05 by this time when I was considering surgery, 25:07 I was forty-years old, 25:09 I had gone and struggled with this for my entire life 25:13 trying to deal with the pain 25:15 and the confusion about my gender, 25:17 who was I, the abuses, 25:19 and so, I went in to the psychologist 25:23 who actually wrote the 25:24 "WPATH Standards of Care" for the treatment of transgenders 25:28 because... I was well enough off 25:30 to be able to afford somebody like that 25:32 and I went in and I said, 25:33 "What do I need to do to get rid of this 25:35 whole 'identity thing' that I have been struggling with?" 25:38 He said, "Well... " he said, "You are gender dysphoric, 25:41 you need hormone therapy and you need surgery. " 25:44 And that was in 1981 and still... 25:48 I knew it was true but it pained me to think 25:53 that that's what I had to do to get right with myself. 25:56 So I waited two more years and I went back to him 25:59 and asked him again, 26:01 I said, "Really? I've been still struggling. " 26:03 By this time I was... I'd still been married now... 26:06 I'd been married almost 17 years by this time. 26:08 Yvonne: I was going to ask you about what was going on 26:10 in your personal life. 26:11 Yeah, I had a good job and I had a marriage 26:13 that was starting to falter 26:15 because I was struggling so deeply with the issues 26:18 that just had not been addressed properly when I was younger. 26:22 Did she know? Did your wife know? 26:23 Yeah, she knew I was struggling, it was painful for her 26:26 and painful for me to continue to try to hide it 26:30 and still be an income earner with a good job, 26:35 I was an Executive with a large automobile company 26:37 and so, when he... I went the second time 26:41 and he said, "Yeah, this is what you need to do" 26:43 I realized that at that point I thought and was convinced 26:47 that the surgery would get rid of all that pain 26:49 that started when I was a young kid 26:51 and that was the only way to do it, 26:54 I saw no alternatives at that time 26:57 that were going to take away that childhood pain 27:00 and all this difficulty... I'd had now for 40 years in my life, 27:04 so, I got divorced and opted for the surgery 27:08 and underwent the surgery in 1983 27:11 and after the surgery there was this 27:15 very euphoric kind of exciting, "I finally made it" thing... 27:19 and it did feel like there was this great relief 27:23 and the weight of the world had been lifted off 27:26 I had finally arrived where I had been wanting to be 27:29 and... and... it was, "good" 27:31 and there I was, now I was Laura Jensen 27:37 with a whole new identity 27:38 and I went and got my birth record changed, 27:41 I got all my records changed 27:42 but when I notified the Automobile Company, 27:46 I was terminated so I didn't have an income 27:50 and eventually I ended up homeless and living in a Park 27:55 as a transgender female. 27:57 My! so, you made the decision to have the surgery 28:02 which... in and of itself... is huge... 28:05 because that... that's just huge... right, so... 28:09 Walt: It's huge... 28:10 Yvonne: It's huge, I mean, it's life changing... literally, 28:14 so, you decided to have the surgery, 28:17 you have it, you then have to deal with 28:21 "life as a woman," 28:22 you have to deal with being fired from your job, 28:28 the humiliation and shame attached to that 28:31 and then you end up losing everything. 28:34 Your home, your status, and really your identity 28:38 because now you're living in a new reality. 28:42 Walt: Yeah, it's true. 28:44 How did that... how did that work? 28:46 Before I ask you that, I want to go back for a minute, 28:49 to your married life because 28:53 so many questions arise like, you know, 28:56 in somebody like me who has no clue 28:59 about the whole lifestyle 29:01 and what goes on... and the pain 29:03 and the angst along with it, 29:05 how did you and your wife relate to each other 29:09 during that time, 29:11 during that time when you were battling with this pain 29:15 of "Am I a woman inside?" 29:18 Or "I want Laura Jensen to come out, but she can't come out" 29:22 how did you and your wife relate to each other? 29:24 We had a very normal sex life, relationship... 29:29 it was our life... really... everybody looked at us... 29:32 it looked like the perfect little family, 29:34 you know, good income, nice cars, nice house, 29:37 all that stuff was there, it was in place, 29:39 the picture was good, 29:41 the pain was in here that people didn't know about 29:45 and I was getting better and better about covering it up 29:48 until I started using more and more alcohol 29:50 and then... that's when the wheels started coming off 29:54 with the marriage and my emotions, my struggles 29:57 and the more alcohol I used, the more difficult things became 30:01 so, once alcohol was introduced into this thing, 30:05 literally, that's when things began to collapse. 30:08 Hmmm... so you had, in general, 30:12 a... what seemed to be... a normal, healthy relationship 30:17 until the alcohol was introduced and then... 30:21 again... I often talk about... on Dare to Dream... 30:25 and in Urban Report, I often talk about 30:27 God's plan... and Satan's plan... 30:29 and Satan's plan is to take you down, 30:32 by whatever means necessary, just take you down, 30:36 and of course, God's plan 30:37 is to elevate you to the best that you can be 30:41 and so Satan introduces the alcohol and that... 30:45 on top of all the pain that you already have 30:48 just ends you up more broken, now without your family 30:54 because now you're... and homeless. 30:55 Walt: Right... yeah. 30:57 How did you recover from that? 31:00 How did you go from, you know, Park Bench, 31:03 to back being financially solvent? 31:06 Well, that was interesting because at the time that 31:09 I was living in the Park, I was... 31:11 my friends know about this, I had this rabbit fur coat 31:15 that I was wearing that I'd gotten from a second-hand store 31:18 and I was sleeping... 31:19 and if you can imagine sleeping on the wet grass... 31:22 in a rabbit fur coat in a Park... 31:24 Yvonne: Were you attracting squirrels and rabbits? 31:28 Yeah, yeah, I probably was. 31:29 Yeah, I mean, you know people... 31:34 they stay their distance because I was sort of... 31:37 here I was... looking somewhat like a female 31:40 but I was early in the transition, 31:43 I was obviously not very healthy, 31:46 I wasn't clean and I remember 31:48 I was struggling with this alcohol 31:50 and I remembered somebody a few years prior to that 31:53 that was at the automobile company 31:55 had said, "If you ever need help 31:57 with your alcoholism, give me a call. " 31:58 So I got up from the Park and I went to this little restaurant 32:02 and people started scattering as I came in the front door 32:07 of the restaurant, here comes this, 32:09 "whatever this is in the rabbit fur coat" 32:10 and I started asking for money so that I could... 32:14 because then... that was that long ago, 32:16 that you could use coins to make a phone call 32:18 and I looked her name up, I got the coins actually, 32:21 one of the waitresses gave me some of her tip money 32:24 and I called Marilyn and I said, 32:26 "Marilyn, I'm ready for a meeting" 32:27 And she said, "Where are you?" 32:29 And I told her where I was, and... so she had a friend 32:32 that was the guy who went to AAA meetings 32:36 and he came and picked me up and he took one look at me 32:39 and he brought me to his house but he put me in the garage 32:43 he left me in the garage, so, he had a couple of couches 32:49 that he moved out in the garage and a couple of chairs 32:51 and... I mean... I was not real appealing 32:54 and I went to my first AAA meeting with him 32:57 and at that time, you know, 32:59 people hug at AAA meetings if you've every been to one, 33:03 well, no one hugged me. Yvonne: Oh, bless your heart. 33:06 Walt: So... 33:07 Were you feeling rejection at that point? 33:09 What were you feeling? 33:10 Well, I was feeling great 33:12 because I had a couch to sleep on... 33:13 it's a lot better than that the grass in the Park 33:16 so I felt like I'd gone up now, you know... 33:19 I was feeling good and so, that started... 33:22 sort of the journey through this process 33:25 that took many, many years after that. 33:28 Wow! Mike when you went through... 33:31 you never did the whole... like gender transformation thing 33:35 or anything but when you were at your lowest 33:40 what was it that brought you back up? 33:44 What was it that made you decide that this is not for me? 33:47 Well, it's interesting, there's no formula for why 33:50 someone is transgender nor the cure for that 33:53 the transgenderism was the worst for me, at puberty, 33:57 when I was 13-years old, I was in 8th Grade, 33:59 we lived in Detroit, Michigan, and they had a swimming pool, 34:02 built-in swimming pool, guys had it one week 34:05 girls had it the next week, here I am... 34:07 I'm a late bloomer and I started school when I was five 34:10 so, you know, everyone else is older than me 34:12 and much more developed, 34:13 and the school policy was that the boys swam naked 34:17 and so, here we are, standing on the side of the pool 34:20 doing jumping jacks, pairing up for sit ups 34:23 and so, when I'm surrounded by 34:25 more feeling of inadequacy as a male 34:27 and then the fact that you know, 34:29 I'm in a different school, still being called names, 34:32 still being put down, 34:33 that was the height of my transgender feelings, 34:36 I grew my hair out to my shoulders, 34:38 I remember fantasizing about being a female 34:41 and I think that for me the worst was 34:43 when I was confronted with how inadequate I was, 34:46 that it didn't measure up, that that's when it was the strongest 34:48 what was remarkable is that it wasn't any grand event 34:53 that actually took the transgender feelings away 34:55 but when I was 20-years old, 34:57 when I came out in the Gay culture, 34:58 because I couldn't find answers in the church, 35:01 I remember that... I realized that masculinity 35:04 in Gay culture was much more valuable than femininity 35:07 and so if I just butchered up a little more 35:09 and start working out at the gym, 35:10 then I found that I started to get what I was looking for 35:14 which was male affirmation and so as I got male affirmation, 35:17 then, I was finally comfortable with who I was physically 35:21 and my gender and my parts... 35:24 actually made sense and I found peace with that. 35:28 It's amazing isn't it how the whole journey, 35:32 it's just like, you know, you have this phase 35:35 and then this phase... and then this phase 35:38 and all along God is leading you 35:41 toward Him, He is wooing you, 35:43 the Holy Spirit is wooing you but you don't even realize it 35:46 how, Walt, did you find Jesus Christ? 35:50 Well, you know, I started... I went to church 35:54 while I was at the Recovery House 35:57 and I was going to meetings at that time, 36:00 I really needed to go to church and I went to a church 36:04 and I remember sitting down with the pastor 36:07 before I went into church and told him about my life 36:10 because I had gone to a church some time before that 36:13 and the pastor had told me, 36:15 "We don't want your kind in our church" 36:16 which was painful but yet it was interesting when I asked him, 36:21 "Well, what kind do you want?" you know, we're all broken... 36:26 it's just that my brokenness is very visible, 36:29 most everybody else's brokenness is quite hidden. 36:32 Hmmm... hmmm... hmmm... hmmm... it's true. 36:35 As long as you keep it hidden, it's okay. 36:38 Right... right... 36:40 But don't put it out there on Front Street 36:42 so, what he said really struck me 36:46 and he kind of leaned back in his big leather chair 36:48 and he said, "No," he said, 36:50 "I'm not going to try to change you," 36:51 he said, "My job is to love you 36:53 it's God's job to change you. " 36:55 And that just sunk in and even though it took years 36:59 after that, I never forgot what he said to me that day 37:04 because I knew that that moment, 37:06 that God was on a journey to change me 37:09 I just didn't know how it was going to come about, 37:11 I knew that my body had been altered badly, 37:15 and that I'd gone through a lot of things in my life 37:18 but I knew that the Lord Jesus Christ 37:23 had the power to redeem and restore my life 37:26 and I was getting prepared for that 37:28 and so, I stayed at that church and they actually encouraged me 37:34 to write a prayer letter so that the group of people 37:36 could actually... kind of look at what was going on in my life 37:40 as I wrote it and some of the early prayer letters were 37:43 very crude and very difficult 37:46 because I was struggling so deeply 37:48 and I started writing those prayer letters on a weekly basis 37:53 and then they became a monthly prayer letter 37:56 and I could see how in those prayer letters 37:59 that my life was beginning to transform as I wrote them 38:02 people... I had these people praying for me 38:05 and so, I eventually was working through my 12-Step Program 38:12 and I was meeting with the Counselor, a PhD Counselor 38:15 and we were praying one day and we got in this prayer time 38:21 and I wasn't much of a praying person, 38:23 I just... I had a hard time just praying in silence 38:27 it was tough for me but that day 38:29 I felt really moved to listen and let him pray 38:33 and he was praying and during that prayer, 38:36 with my eyes closed... I could see the Lord Jesus Christ 38:42 coming to me, I could see His face, 38:46 I could see His robe, 38:47 I could see His arms reaching out to me 38:49 and at that moment, I saw myself as a little baby 38:53 wrapped in cloth and He picked me up 38:55 and held me in His arms and He said, 38:57 "You will be safe with me forever" 39:00 and He eventually disappeared then... 39:03 and I knew at that moment that He'd come 39:06 to redeem and restore my life 39:09 and I knew that I was going to be fine 39:11 and from that moment on 39:13 my life completely was transformed by that 39:16 and interesting enough 39:18 I still write a prayer letter to the same people 39:21 the ones that are still there now, every month, 39:24 they still get to hear the journey 39:26 and that's over 30 years of prayer letters. 39:29 Wow! 39:30 You know, something that I picked up on that? 39:32 This is the second time I've heard that, but you said, 39:35 "You'll be safe with me forever" 39:37 and here we think we're talking about a gender issue when 39:40 was the issue really for you... Walt, 39:43 "I never felt safe" 39:45 didn't feel safe with the grandmother, 39:46 didn't feel safe with your father, 39:48 didn't even feel safe with yourself, 39:50 I don't know... is there something to that? 39:53 Sure could be... 39:54 "You are safe with me now. " 39:56 Yvonne: Yeah, yeah, yeah... 39:57 I just felt that He had picked up the child of Walt... 40:00 and pulled him back in and redeemed him 40:02 and restored me and I can go on to live my life 40:04 like I do today... serving Jesus Christ 40:07 and speaking about His transformation 40:10 and His power in my life. 40:11 Yvonne: Yes, as Walt... Walt: as Walt... 40:13 Yvonne: no more Laura... Walt: No more Laura... 40:15 Praise God, so from that moment on, 40:17 that was the end of Laura? 40:19 Was that the end? 40:20 It began... it wasn't like that, snaps finger... 40:23 it wasn't like flipping a switch off, 40:25 but you could see the incremental changes 40:27 as I went through the process 40:29 and began to stop "behaving" like Laura. 40:35 Hmmm... hmmm... 40:36 I had become the man that God had created me to be. 40:38 So there was a process to become Laura, 40:41 there was a process of deconstructing a behavior 40:45 of being transgender and once that behavior is over, 40:49 that's when you realize... you really have everything. 40:53 You really have got it and you're really living the life... 40:57 I mean, today, I'm sober 30 years, 40:59 I'm married almost 19 years 41:02 you talk about redemption and restoration 41:04 He gave it to me that day when He picked me up. 41:07 Yvonne: Amen, yes, yes, how beautiful 41:09 and that's what He came to do. 41:11 To give us life and life more abundantly. 41:15 That's what He promises and you two... 41:18 are both... examples of that 41:20 because as I talked to you all 41:23 and as I've talked to Mike over the years 41:25 and the 'Coming Out' Ministries' Team 41:28 whom I love... like... I just feel like God is... 41:31 He's in the restoration business 41:33 that's what He does with all of us 41:35 we all have our issues no one needs to look at you 41:39 or you or anybody, or me... 41:41 or anybody else and say, "Well, you're this or you're that" 41:44 No... yeah, I'm this or that... 41:46 and you're this or that... we all have issues 41:49 that's why we're all sinners in need of a Savior 41:52 and that's why Jesus Christ came 41:53 so He has restored you, He's given you a whole new life 41:59 with a whole new identity, you are now... Walt... 42:02 without looking back at "Laura. " 42:06 So, how do people in the LGBT Community 42:12 look at you... because you are the exact opposite 42:16 of what they're promoting and I want to talk a bit about 42:19 that whole "promotion thing" because I think 42:22 what's happening in Society now is that 42:25 this Movement is being promoted as something that should be... 42:31 should be exalted, should be glorified 42:34 and we're not supposed to call it sin 42:37 because in so doing... we're not politically correct, 42:40 we're not... so... let's talk a bit about 42:42 promoting this agenda. 42:44 Well, yeah, they've done an outstanding job 42:46 of selling the Nation... in fact, almost the entire world 42:50 that a "behavior" is an "identity" and as such 42:55 they've gone and passed laws to protect this behavior 42:59 and they've allowed people to go into restrooms 43:01 and we're seeing all this... 43:03 which is so damaging to the individual themselves 43:07 as well as the Nation, so, they've done a great job 43:11 of confusing us about who we are 43:14 and now, it wasn't too long ago they came out with 43:16 50-some different genders... 43:18 Yvonne: Wait... what? 43:21 Yes, they came out and said, Facebook came out... 43:23 because the LGBT came out 43:25 with this whole gender spectrum 43:27 of some 46 to 50 different genders 43:30 so what they're trying to do is 43:32 completely... the real agenda... is to eradicate gender 43:37 once they eradicate gender, then they can eradicate marriage 43:42 because... no longer... gender, no man... no woman... 43:45 they're trying to take men and women off the bathroom doors 43:49 and just have them all be the same, 43:52 so once you completely destroy gender, 43:56 you can destroy the family, you can destroy identity 43:59 and you have this horrible mess of people 44:05 not knowing who they are 44:07 and this... in my view... 44:09 is why we see so many of these young people 44:12 and older people who have transitioned now 44:15 attempting suicide at such high rates. 44:17 They don't know who they are, they don't know where to turn, 44:19 they have no foundation in which... to live their life. 44:24 In Jesus Christ, we know who we are, 44:28 it's says, "we're born a man... we're born woman... 44:30 we are to join in marriage as man and woman and be a family" 44:35 you know, when you break that apart, 44:37 you've got pieces scattered all over the place like we do today. 44:40 Hmmm... hmmm... hmmmm... hmmm... 44:42 I think it fits, again, with the times that we're living in, 44:44 it talks about how... in the Garden of Eden 44:47 before sin even entered the world, 44:49 that marriage was one of the institutions 44:51 that was established by God in a perfect world 44:53 and now, all of a sudden, it's... 44:55 marriage is under attack too... not only is it sexual identity, 44:59 maybe the cloaking issue but really 45:02 the undermining issue is the fact that the enemy, 45:04 Satan is out to destroy marriage... 45:06 one of the institutions that God had ordained in Eden. 45:10 At creation... the two institutions 45:12 that He... that God ordained 45:14 they're under attack... marriage and Sabbath. 45:17 And that's a very interesting phenomenon to me 45:19 that Satan wants to destroy the things 45:23 that God has established, that's his whole deal. 45:27 You're right, we shouldn't forget the foundation 45:30 of marriage, is it not... gender? 45:33 And, wait... wait Walt, 45:35 the foundation of marriage 45:38 was the complete expression of who God was. 45:41 Remember it wasn't until after He created Eve 45:43 that He stood back and He said, 45:45 "This is the express image of who I am" 45:47 the relationship between one man and one woman. 45:51 Wow, yeah... that's very, very deep. 45:56 So, you... you... 45:59 without necessarily naming the Networks... 46:01 but you've been invited to different Networks, 46:04 tell us about how that played out. 46:06 Mike: The Limo ride... 46:08 Yvonne: Yeah, tell us about the Limo ride. 46:10 Well, I've been invited to be on many TV shows 46:13 and... they... they... all they know is 46:16 I'm a transgender, apparently, 46:17 and they get me in the Limo, they schedule me to be on... 46:20 they get me in the Limo... I'm headed down to the Station 46:23 and then they find out that I'm not somebody 46:26 who's an LGBT Advocate... that I'm not... 46:29 I don't believe this behavior should be an identity 46:32 and so, I'll get a call... one time I was 46:35 could see the Station where I was supposed go 46:38 to be on at 6:00 in the morning, 46:39 I got up at 4:00... got a Limo ride at 5:00 46:41 and I was there before 6:00, 46:43 the Producer called me and said, "No, no, no, you can't... 46:46 you have to tell them to turn the car around 46:48 and go back home and take you back home. " 46:49 That's happened... many times... 46:51 so, they want to make sure they keep things squeaky clean 46:58 on television and they don't want people like me... 47:01 coming out and suggesting that a "behavior" now 47:05 has become an "identity" and that if it's a behavior, 47:09 which I believe it is from my own experience 47:11 and from the thousands of people that I get... 47:14 that have come to my website for the last ten years... 47:16 And what is your website? 47:18 It's called: sexchangeregret. com 47:21 and: atransgendersfaith. com 47:25 Yvonne: You have two? 47:26 I have two, yeah. 47:28 Yvonne: Say it again, and we'll have it up on the screen. 47:30 Yeah, so, sexchangeregret. com 47:32 and: atransgendersfaith. com 47:34 and so... people come to these websites 47:37 and they find things that they've never heard 47:40 because they don't allow me on television to talk about it. 47:42 Right, so, it's new information and it's... 47:46 What I have found is like... last year, 47:49 the website: sexchangeregret. com 47:51 got over 350,000 visits 47:53 and last year I was seen on media around the world 47:58 by over 300 million people 48:00 so, I'm able to get the message out 48:03 in every place outside of the U.S. 48:06 But the US does not want your message 48:09 to be promoted... because it goes against the agenda. 48:14 It's not politically correct to speak the way I speak 48:18 because I look at the letters of regret 48:21 that I get from people whose lives, just like mine, 48:25 have been totally damaged by the surgery, 48:27 totally damaged by a behavior 48:29 that someone told him was an identity... and it wasn't, 48:33 and they write me and say, "Now, what do I do? 48:35 I'm ten or fifteen years down the road 48:37 and I don't know how to come back, and... " 48:40 Yvonne: Are these people who've had the surgery? 48:43 Yes, yes, I get them frequently and I get people 48:47 who are near the edge, or have gone through it 48:50 or want help, I get those letters every day. 48:53 And so, when you get a pastor that comes to you and says, 49:00 "How do I deal with this in my church? 49:03 Like... what... what do you say, 49:05 how do you love the transgendered person 49:10 without reinforcing the behavior?" 49:12 Yeah, that's a great question, you know, 49:14 one of the things that's so important, 49:16 from what we've talked about today, 49:18 is we know... that the people who are acting out 49:21 in this transgender behavior, are hurting... 49:24 they've been injured, they've been damaged, 49:26 they've had something go wrong in their life, 49:29 and as such, if we're going to help them, 49:32 we need to sit down and listen to them, 49:34 we don't need to sort of support or encourage their behavior, 49:40 what we do need to do is find out 49:43 why they came to this conclusion 49:45 that they were a different gender, what happened? 49:47 I want to sit down with the people, 49:48 like I have done... I have sat across and said, 49:50 "What happened?" "When did this start?" 49:53 "When did you first get this feeling?" 49:55 "What type of relationship do you have with your father?" 49:58 "What type of relationship do you have with your mother?" 50:00 And, were they in a Foster home that was abusive? 50:04 Were they abused by a neighbor? What... did something... 50:07 Because, I have found 100 percent of the time, 50:10 my wife and I laugh about this now, 50:11 when they write me and say, "Well, the home life was fine" 50:14 and then I ask, five or ten good questions 50:17 and they write back... and you see... 50:18 that it was a total disaster. Yvonne: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 50:21 So, we do have... if we're going to be helping 50:25 people in a church, we have to sit down with them 50:28 and get to know what's causing them to hurt 50:32 and many of them, we know 50:33 62.7 percent of them 50:36 according to studies, are suffering from 50:38 Axis 1: psychological and psychiatric... 50:40 called "Comorbid disorders. " 50:42 Gender Dysphoria, by itself, 50:44 is the way they diagnose the condition 50:48 but under Gender Dysphoria, 50:49 is a comorbid disorder like, Dissociation 50:52 or Bi-Polar disorders or Schizophrenia 50:56 or Separation Anxiety, all these different disorders 51:00 that are never diagnosed by the attending physicians 51:03 who work with transgenders, they just overlook it 51:07 and offer them hormones 51:08 and send them on the road to having surgery 51:11 when in fact they're suffering from psychological 51:14 and psychiatric issues 51:16 if properly treated... 51:18 would alleviate the desire to change genders. 51:20 Mike: Exactly. 51:21 That's so... that is so deep, 51:25 so the label of Gender Dysphoria is really like the Band-Aid 51:31 that's covering the real issue, the real disorders 51:36 that you mentioned. 51:38 What I identified... is the yellow flag signaling caution, 51:42 there's something wrong. Yvonne: Hmmm... 51:43 And... because that is not... 51:46 we shouldn't be embracing Gender Dysphoria 51:49 because... it is nothing but a behavior 51:52 to tell us that something is hurting them 51:54 and they don't want to be who they are 51:56 so they're now attempting 51:59 to become someone who they can never really be. 52:01 Wow! that is incredible, you want to say something, Mike? 52:05 Well, just... well imagine 52:07 what that would have been for me if all of a sudden... 52:09 now they have laws to protect kids 52:11 that are transgender to have that sex change 52:13 so if I was 20-years old and then realized 52:16 that I was okay as a male, 52:18 only now, I've mutilated my body to resemble a female, 52:21 imagine how much more complicated 52:23 my issues would have been. 52:24 Absolutely, I mean, it's... it's just kind of incredible 52:28 that... that... what we're doing as a Society, 52:33 is to really make... make it all worse 52:36 instead of addressing the underlying issues 52:39 we're addressing... there's a manifest issue 52:42 and a latent issue 52:44 and we're addressing the manifest 52:45 without really dealing with the latent issue. 52:48 We're dealing with the symptom and not the problem. 52:49 Yvonne: Right. 52:51 And that is only a symptom 52:52 and I've had people write me a letter 52:55 and... an e-mail... 52:56 and I would have left church one time and got home, 52:59 looked at my e-mail and here's a letter from a guy 53:01 which says, "Please write me as soon as possible, 53:04 I'm going down to the store 53:05 to buy a gun and blow my brains out. " 53:07 Three years post surgery, 53:09 he was the same age I was when he had surgery, 53:13 he was a pilot making 200,000 dollars a year, 53:16 and he went through the surgery 53:18 now he is without a job, he's struggling 53:22 and wants to commit suicide. 53:24 I worked with him over 250 e-mails, 53:27 phone calls, and encouraging him... 53:30 he's alive today, he's back in being a pilot 53:33 and he's back being a man. 53:34 Mike: Amen. Yvonne: Praise the Lord. 53:37 What a blessing... what a blessing it is 53:39 to have you working with those... 53:42 you've been through the experience 53:44 the whole experience including the surgery 53:48 and you're helping people 53:51 who've been there, what a blessing! 53:53 Mike, I need to get your website information 53:56 before we close too 53:57 so that people know how to contact you 53:59 in 'Coming Out' Ministries. 54:00 Sure, it's: comingoutministries. org 54:04 That's it, comingoutministries. org 54:09 we have 30 seconds, 54:11 can you just give a closing thought, Walt, 54:14 to somebody who is going through that situation, 54:18 just 30 seconds. 54:20 Just understand that the people are hurting 54:23 and that are struggling with this 54:25 and try to find out what it is that caused them 54:28 to have such pain that they don't want to be 54:31 who they are and now they're attempting 54:33 to become someone who they can never be 54:35 because it's categorically impossible 54:38 to surgically, biologically, change someone 54:41 from one gender to the other, it's not possible. 54:44 They are still... if they were born male... 54:48 they're still male... correct? 54:50 Thank you so much for being with us... both of you, 54:53 thank you Mike, thank you Walt, 54:55 thank you so much for sharing this information with us 54:59 and thank you so much for joining us. 55:01 This has been an amazing blessing, God bless you. 55:04 Walt: Thank you. Mike: Thank you very much. 55:06 Wooooo, was that powerful or what? 55:11 God transforms 55:13 and we can be grateful for His Holy Spirit 55:15 who gives us new and true identities in Christ. 55:19 At Dare to Dream, 55:20 we appreciate your prayers and support 55:23 and we welcome your love gifts 55:25 so please ask the Holy Spirit how much you should give 55:29 and then send your tax-deductible love gifts to: 55:35 Dare to Dream, PO Box 220, West Frankfort, IL 62896 55:40 and the phone number, if you choose to call us 55:43 is 618-627-4651 55:47 that's 618-627-4651 55:52 or go to our website at: D2DNetwork. tv 55:57 D2DNetwork. tv 56:00 we're also on Facebook 56:02 we want you to "Like" us on Facebook 56:04 and if you have ideas for programs, 56:08 send us ideas or if you have a testimony 56:11 about how Dare to Dream has impacted your life, 56:15 please, send us a little video from your camera 56:18 or your iPad or something, 56:19 saying how Dare to Dream has impacted your life. 56:22 It's really important to us 56:24 that the programs that we are producing here 56:27 are a blessing to you. 56:29 We pray that your hearts are being turned to the Lord 56:32 because that's why we're doing this. 56:34 That's the whole purpose behind it 56:37 because we want to share Jesus with the world. 56:40 Well, thanks for joining us, 56:42 join us next time because you know what? 56:45 It just wouldn't be the same without you. |
Revised 2016-05-26