Participants: Yvonne Lewis (Host), Jason Bradley (Host), Ron Woolsey, Wayne Blakely, Michael Carducci, Danielle Harrison
Series Code: UBR
Program Code: UBR000179A
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00:01 The following program discusses sensitive issues.
00:03 Parents are cautioned that some material 00:05 may be too candid for younger children. 00:09 Once gay... always gay? 00:11 Stay tuned to meet some folks who don't see it that way. 00:15 My name is Yvonne Lewis 00:16 and you're watching Urban Report. 00:41 Hello and welcome to Urban Report. 00:43 Our guests today are members of the 00:45 'Coming Out' Ministries Team. 00:47 Jason and I had a chance to talk with them 00:50 when they came here to host a season's worth of programming 00:53 on Pure Choices which is 00:55 Dare to Dream's program on sexual purity. 00:57 Take a look. 01:00 I am so happy to be sitting here 01:03 with the 'Coming Out' Ministries Team 01:05 on the set of Pure Choices because they just did a 01:07 whole series of programs for you to enjoy... with Jason, yea... 01:14 and we are going to be talking to this wonderful team today 01:18 because what they bring 01:20 is something so unique 01:22 and so God-inspired 01:24 that I know that you're going to be blessed 01:26 so, let's just kind of go down the line... 01:28 I'm going to start with Danielle, 01:30 we're going to go down the line and find out who you are and... 01:34 just... before we go into your testimonies, 01:36 just give us your name and where you're from. 01:38 Sure, I'm Danielle Harrison and I'm currently living in Georgia. 01:41 Yvonne: Okay. 01:42 And I'm Ron Woolsey and I'm pastoring in Arkansas. 01:45 Yvonne: Great. 01:47 I'm Wayne Blakely and I live in Vancouver, Washington. 01:49 Yvonne: Great. 01:50 Michael Carducci and I'm from East Tennessee. 01:52 Yea, you know, when I first met... 01:57 I first met Wayne and Mike, right? 02:00 Was it Wayne and Mike and 02:02 you had a couple more people on your team at the time. 02:04 Mike: Ron was with us. 02:06 But I wasn't... Ron wasn't with you... the day I met you, 02:10 I don't think... at ASI? 02:12 He might have been on the team 02:13 but I don't think he was there the day that I met you. 02:15 Ron: I wasn't at the Booth... Mike: He wasn't that far back... 02:17 I'm going all the way back and I got to talk to you 02:22 about what you were doing and I felt like... 02:24 this is a "God thing... " 02:26 this is counteracting the counterfeit 02:30 because your ministry is a ministry to... 02:34 people who were living the homosexual lifestyle 02:38 and so... I'd like to just kind of go down the line 02:41 and find out a bit about your testimony... 02:45 how you got to where you are now... in Jesus 02:49 so let's start with you Danielle. 02:50 Sure, well, when I came into the family environment in my home, 02:55 my parents were really in Development 02:57 in a neighboring town and 02:58 it was there that I met a girl who lived down the street 03:00 and she was actually being sexually abused 03:03 by someone else in her life 03:05 and so she was learning things about her body 03:07 that she shouldn't have known 03:08 and she started trying those things with me. 03:11 So, I was probably about seven or eight 03:13 when I started interacting with this same sex, actually, 03:16 and so, of course, this opened up the door for other addictions 03:21 and other sexual sins down the road. 03:23 Masturbation soon became an addiction for me 03:26 at that tender young age and I came out 03:30 as bisexual... in... 03:32 well, I guess it was about 15-years old in high school 03:35 and I remember my dad sitting me down 03:39 and telling me that it was okay for me to be who I am 03:43 and he would still love me 03:45 and he didn't say, "It's okay if you're gay... " 03:49 but we basically both knew that's what he was talking about 03:53 so my life took on a whole new level of freedom after that 03:57 and I was about 16 when that conversation happened. 03:59 Where were you spiritually during this time? 04:02 I had been exposed to Christianity... growing up... 04:06 baptized at the age of 9 04:08 but it wasn't really a converted experience, 04:11 it was just... "this is what you do when you love Jesus. " 04:14 It was at a local Baptist Church 04:16 that I'd gone to, off and on with a family friend 04:18 and a few years before that conversation happened, 04:22 we had moved in next door to an Adventist family... 04:26 a Christian family, and my sister had... 04:28 probably around that time was being baptized 04:31 into the Adventist church 04:33 when I was positioning myself to walk out into the world... 04:36 and I think that my identity and my sexual identity 04:41 had a lot to do with that. 04:42 So, I wandered in the wilderness for a few years 04:47 and I realized that that wasn't what I had hoped it to be. 04:51 I ended up in a pretty dark and scary place at the end of it 04:54 and the Lord... He helped me to see my need. 05:00 How did you find Him? 05:01 Well, that sister who had become an Adventist... 05:05 she went out to an Adventist Health Institution 05:08 with her husband so that he could do an internship 05:11 on the farm out there for the summer 05:13 and they invited me to go with them 05:15 and I just expected to be there for six months 05:18 to work on the farm for a little while 05:20 but the Lord really met me there 05:21 and at this point I had walked away from that dark place 05:24 and was searching spiritually 05:26 and I really met Jesus Christ there 05:28 I really started to develop a relationship with Him 05:31 and understand who He was. 05:32 And I was baptized in September of 2012 05:37 and it was after that that the Lord just started 05:40 opening up doors for me to share my testimony 05:42 in different churches and different venues 05:44 and while 'Coming Out' Ministries 05:46 was basically being formed, 05:48 that's when I was turning away from the world and all of that 05:53 so it was 2014 in May that I started working with the guys 05:58 so I'm a new addition to the team. 05:59 You're the baby of the team. 06:01 Danielle: Yes, on multiple levels. 06:03 Yeah, yeah, right, right... that's great, thank you. 06:07 So, what was it like... 06:09 what was it like... experiencing it from the church side? 06:14 Were people nurturing... did they accept you 06:18 or did they... were they criticizing you 06:21 or how was that? 06:23 As far as... where I was in my journey 06:26 like... as I was coming into the church? 06:28 Jason: As you were coming into the church. 06:31 You know, the place that I went was 06:33 just what God knew that I needed 06:36 and when I went there, 06:38 nobody knew about my sexual preference, 06:42 they knew that I was in a pretty abstract place 06:47 in my spiritual understanding 06:49 and I remember expecting them to start treating me differently 06:52 once they learned that I wasn't a Christian. 06:54 I remember the morning I was sitting with the doctor 06:56 and his family in their home having breakfast 06:58 and he asked me if I was a Christian and what I believed 07:01 and I thought, "Oh, here we go... " 07:03 they've all been really nice so far 07:05 but this is going to be the end of that 07:07 but it wasn't... that's not what happened 07:09 they nurtured me even more, 07:12 they just scooped me in under their wing 07:14 and they met me where I was at, even in the mess, 07:17 they were willing to wade through the mess with me 07:20 and relate to me where they could 07:23 and walk with me through it and God knew that I needed that 07:26 especially, because I had seen a lot of hypocrisy 07:29 in the realm of Christianity when I was younger 07:31 and that was a lot of the reason why 07:33 I didn't want anything to do with the church. 07:35 And that's a blessing, I think that a lot of times 07:39 the common misconception is that 07:40 as Christians we don't condone homosexuality... 07:44 we don't condone that behavior because it's not... 07:47 in the Bible... God doesn't condone it 07:50 but I think that it's viewed by the world 07:52 that we are against the people, 07:58 it's not the person... it's the sin... 08:01 so we love the person and the people... 08:05 but we hate the sin... as God would say 08:09 it's just like a heterosexual person being promiscuous 08:13 or if you had a kid that steals 08:17 or is a murderer or something like that 08:20 like you love your son or daughter 08:23 but you don't like or condone what they're doing. 08:26 Danielle: Amen. 08:27 But it's interesting that the Christian church, I think, 08:30 as a whole... has given that representation 08:33 of this "hate" thing. 08:34 You know, I learned that one negative comment 08:37 can destroy ten good comments 08:39 and so the voice that we heard 08:41 as we were walking in the gay culture was 08:44 that, you know, Christianity hated queers, 08:46 you know... and that was the message we got 08:48 in and out of the church at the time. 08:49 So, I think the Christian church has some responsibility to take 08:54 for the message that they've been receiving. 08:56 Even the terminology "queers" like, it made me kind of 09:01 cringe a bit because now it's part of the LGBT cue... 09:08 categorization and that... to even introduce that word, 09:14 is like... it's not a pejorative anymore, is it? 09:17 I thought that was weird too 09:20 because it has always been considered a derogatory term. 09:23 Yvonne: Yeah, yeah. 09:25 Jason: But I guess it's like the "N" word... 09:28 and recognizing it can... and stuff like that. 09:29 Yvonne: Yeah, yeah, interesting. 09:32 Ron, tell us a little bit about your journey. 09:35 Well, I grew up in a very spiritual environment 09:38 and I was a spiritual young person, 09:40 I grew up though with a very deep dark secret 09:43 of having been molested when I was four-years old 09:47 and that left me very confused throughout my life... growing up 09:51 but I wanted to be a Christian 09:57 and I didn't know anyone else who had 10:00 the same struggle that I did 10:01 and the same-sex attractions and all of that, 10:04 so I masked it, I think, very well, 10:07 no one ever knew I'd been molested 10:10 and I was repeatedly violated in grade school 10:13 because once, I think, a victim, it's easy to be victimized again 10:19 it's hard to say, "No," you don't know what to do 10:22 and so you just kind of freeze and just endure 10:27 but I chose to go to Christian schools 10:32 and to be a student missionary, 10:34 I chose to marry thinking that that would be the solution 10:39 to all of my sexual confusion 10:42 and I strongly encourage people today... 10:45 young people today... don't be deceived into thinking 10:48 that marriage is the solution to anything. 10:50 It can be the beginning of woes 10:53 if you're not married to the right person 10:55 for the right reason and with God's blessing 10:58 but I did marry a lovely, Christian lady... 11:01 I wanted to have a Christian home and a Christian family 11:04 and we had a couple of children together 11:07 but my confusion just was intensified 11:10 and so, I ended up wrecking up my marriage 11:14 and fell headlong into the gay life 11:18 but what is so startling to many people 11:22 is that I trained to be a... 11:24 I was studying to be a medical missionary 11:27 so I had a degree in Theology and graduated with honors 11:32 and so that's why so many people were shocked 11:35 when I went into the gay life rather than going into ministry 11:38 or going on with my medical training 11:40 so I lived many years in the gay life... 11:43 You went back to school... for Theology 11:46 after the marriage was dissolved? 11:48 No, I had the degree in Theology while I was married 11:52 and... but when I was called into ministry 11:57 it kind of startled me because I didn't feel worthy of it 12:00 because of my mental struggle 12:02 so I wouldn't accept a call into ministry 12:05 and then I ended up just breaking up the marriage 12:08 and going into the gay life. 12:10 So I lost my family in my youth... 12:12 and spent many years in the gay life... blaming God 12:17 because even counselors advised 12:21 that I was someone who could not be changed 12:24 and these were primarily Christian counselors 12:27 and even pastors 12:28 so I went into the world very bitter and angry against God 12:32 and yet I was also quite frustrated with this concept 12:35 that God was impotent 12:37 that He could not change or save someone like me 12:40 because I knew that He was omnipotent 12:44 but yet this concept made Him appear impotent. 12:49 Yvonne: Hmmm... hmmm... 12:50 So eventually, with this great frustration, 12:53 I turned to the Word of God. 12:54 I wanted to find answers... not for professors 12:57 but for myself... for my own salvation 13:01 and it's just really fascinating to me now 13:04 to realize that everything I needed 13:06 was right there all the time, 13:08 it's right there in the Word of God, 13:09 I found every answer to all of my gay questions 13:13 in the Word of God 13:14 to the point that I could turn and walk away. 13:17 That is... the fact that you can even say that, 13:20 that you could turn and walk away... 13:22 in a prevailing ideology now that you're "born this way," 13:28 this is who you are, accept it, embrace it, 13:32 share it, promote it, I mean, really... 13:36 it's... this whole concept of, "you could walk away" 13:41 all of you... could walk away... 13:43 is so unheard of and I want to explore some more of that later 13:48 but that... to me... that is... 13:50 it goes against... you're going against the tide. 13:53 Yeah, everything that's... 13:55 that the Community has been saying... 13:58 you just erased... eradicated that. 14:01 Well, I could have invented those arguments, I mean, 14:03 those were all arguments that I made, 14:05 every argument that you hear today, 14:07 were arguments that I made... I defended... 14:11 I was not convinced myself 14:13 but I could convince other people. 14:15 But in turning and walking away, I need to make it clear 14:18 that does not mean "without temptation" 14:20 because when I walked away, it was a fierce struggle 14:23 but I learned to love Jesus more than my partner. 14:26 I was in love with two men, there for a while 14:30 that as I beheld Jesus, I became... 14:32 I realized that I loved Jesus more and I had to make a choice. 14:35 So, yes, I struggled with great temptation after that 14:39 but as I continued to walk towards the Lord 14:44 and away from the old life, I was surprised at how quickly 14:48 my new life took hold... within one year 14:52 I was married again to a lovely Christian woman 14:57 and we now have two more children, 15:00 the very night I was baptized, I was invited into ministry... 15:04 well, I was invited to preach the next Sabbath 15:07 and that was 24 years ago 15:10 and I've been in the pulpit ever since the night I was baptized 15:13 and I now pastor two churches in Arkansas 15:17 when I'm not on the road with 'Coming Out' Ministries 15:21 or doing my concert ministry and what I had read... 15:24 one of the things that I had read 15:26 that really helped change my life 15:28 was to the effect that there's nothing that God expects of us, 15:31 it is not for our own fulfillment and joy 15:34 and that His plan for our lives 15:37 far exceeds anything we could even imagine for ourselves 15:41 and that's my testimony today 15:43 that my life today does far exceed anything 15:46 that I ever experienced in the gay life 15:49 and I think I can speak for all of us, 15:53 we've been on both sides and we're staying on this side 15:56 because we know... we see this side... 15:59 God's side is so much better than anything that we... 16:03 that we were addicted to in the world. 16:08 So, when you... when you were in that state of 16:13 embracing "who you were" and actually just... 16:19 just into that whole lifestyle, was there happiness there? 16:25 Was there fulfillment there? What was the prevailing feeling 16:31 that you had when you were embracing it? 16:34 When you were living... 16:36 when you were full blown out there? 16:37 Well, there's a lot of fun, there's a lot of excitement 16:41 and I filled my life with everything that I could think of 16:46 in entertainment, in sports, hand-gliding, roller-blading, 16:51 biking, going to the beach, snow skiing, 16:53 I kept my life very, very busy 16:55 but in between some of those times, 16:59 there was great loneliness, heartache, heart break, 17:01 depression and all of that 17:04 but the focus of that kind of life, in my experience, 17:09 was self... self-gratification 17:12 and I filled my life with things that pleased me 17:16 and that's empty... that is not fulfilling 17:19 so I had fun and excitement and happiness 17:22 but I did not have lasting joy and peace and assurance 17:27 which I now have. Yvonne: Hmmm... hmmm... hmmm... 17:30 Amen... Amen. 17:32 What would you say was so binding about the lifestyle, 17:34 like, what is it that causes a lot of people to 17:38 stay and stick with that lifestyle? 17:40 It's addiction... it is absolutely an addiction. 17:44 That self-gratification, the stimulus, the pleasure, 17:48 but... and I can say that 17:51 very dogmatically if I can use that term, 17:54 because the Bible talks about the bondage of sin. 17:59 Sin is addictive and today... homosexual behavior 18:03 is being referred to... in many circles as... 18:07 "the experimental drug of this age" 18:10 and people... because it's being so celebrated 18:14 and promoted, 18:16 people are actually experimenting with it 18:19 having no idea how addictive it can be. 18:22 Hmmm... would you all say the same thing 18:25 that that's what kept you in that lifestyle? 18:28 My first reaction was... feelings... 18:31 the whole Movement for me was based on feelings 18:34 and I've been repressed for so long that all of a sudden, 18:38 now I can express my feelings 18:40 and that was part of the addictive drive... was... 18:43 it was all driven by feelings and that was... 18:45 made it even harder coming out on the other side 18:47 is recognizing truth versus feelings. 18:50 Yvonne: Hmmm... 18:51 Ron: That's a good point. 18:53 Well, I'll tell you that when people think of addiction 18:56 they think, "Oh, so they were just a bunch of sex maniacs" 19:00 the addiction isn't just... it isn't just of a sexual nature 19:04 it is because you suffered greatly in your life... 19:07 from... like being bullied or harassed 19:11 or having great depression 19:13 and now you're addicted to excitement... 19:16 is really what it is and I would steer clear 19:19 today from using the term, "Lifestyle" 19:23 because many gays are taking offense to that today 19:27 because we're lumping them all into the same activities. 19:30 Not everybody participates in the same activities 19:33 as I did... when I was living in the gay culture 19:36 and I would like to try to shift people today 19:39 in helping them realize it is a culture, 19:42 just like heterosexuality would be considered... 19:44 a culture of heterosexuals rather than... 19:46 we don't call it a heterosexual lifestyle 19:48 and so gays are taking great offense 19:51 to the term, "Lifestyle" today 19:54 sometimes shifting... if you talk about culture, 19:56 it's more inclusive of all kinds of people 19:59 with all kinds of feelings and things that they participate in. 20:03 But there is nothing actually in the gay culture 20:07 that is appropriate from the standpoint of a Biblical nature. 20:14 What was your journey like? 20:16 Well, you know, brokenness comes in 20:18 all kinds of different shapes and sizes 20:20 and so, for the Viewer, 20:22 I would like Viewers to think about 20:24 what your own brokenness might be 20:26 and everyone is looking for a pat answer 20:29 for what causes homosexuality 20:31 so this is just our stories that we're sharing 20:34 and we realize that homosexuality comes from 20:37 many different kinds of scenarios 20:40 and situations in your life, 20:42 mine was such that my birth mother was expecting 20:46 and only desiring to have a baby girl, 20:49 she didn't want a boy under any circumstances 20:52 and so, when I was born, she was angry 20:55 before I was two-years old, 20:56 she had broken my arm in two different places 20:58 on two different occasions 20:59 and so, I was adopted by a Christian family 21:03 and was raised in a Christian home of which I believe today 21:06 that God took me and placed me in that environment 21:09 and prepared me for what He has me doing today. 21:12 The journey wasn't something, 21:14 the fallen nature isn't something 21:17 that God desired for everyone 21:18 but He knew that each of us would have a story, 21:21 He knew that it was an environment he could put me in 21:24 and that... as Deuteronomy says 21:26 that if you're raised in the way that you should go, 21:29 that one day, you would return 21:31 and so, He knew that that would happen. 21:33 I endured and suffered harassment and bullying 21:37 because I was effeminate, 21:39 I wanted to be the girl that my mother... 21:40 my birth mother wanted me to be 21:42 that would get me love and acceptance. 21:44 My new parents didn't understand what was going on 21:47 I was running around the house screaming, 21:49 "I don't want to be a boy, I want to be a girl" 21:51 and so I suffered greatly 21:55 all the way through school, 21:58 I thought... if I can get through 12 years of school 22:00 I'll never step foot inside another classroom, 22:02 because of the harassment and the hurt 22:05 that I was dealing with in my life, 22:07 at the age of 18, I was working at Loma Linda University 22:15 and I ended up meeting a guy there who was in the gay culture 22:19 who said to me, "You're gay!" 22:22 And I didn't even know what he was talking about 22:25 but he sensed... he could tell from mannerisms 22:28 or from commonalities that... 22:31 he could tell me that face to face... 22:32 So prior to that, you had never had 22:35 a same-sex relationship... prior to that? 22:38 I would say that in growing up that there were some detours 22:43 in experimentation and exploration 22:46 and also, what might be even considered abuse 22:50 as I had heterosexual boys who were introducing me 22:54 into what masturbation was all about 22:57 and it was actually at that point that I thought, 22:59 "Okay, well I'm normal" because they were engaging with me 23:01 and I was drawn towards men 23:03 but they didn't stay in that behavior very long, 23:06 they headed off and headed for for girlfriends and everything 23:10 and I thought, "What's wrong with me? 23:11 It's not happening, God... I didn't ask to be this way. " 23:15 And so, here's someone telling me, "Well... well you're gay" 23:18 and then a couple of minutes later he says to me, 23:22 "Wayne, Christianity breeds homosexuality" 23:26 and I said, "Wait a minute, what are you talking about?" 23:30 "Well," he said, "you're gay, I'm gay, 23:32 I go to school with other guys in college that are gay," 23:36 he said, "You know, the church has done a great job 23:38 of telling us that homosexual behavior is sinful... " 23:41 and then they stop and then they say nothing, 23:44 they say, nothing about how God can change that 23:46 what's redemptive, how do we please God, 23:50 nobody did anything and I think it's because, 23:53 that today, we're still suffering in this idea 23:56 that the church is still in this present state of looking at us 23:59 like, "Oh, you guys are... you guys are the queer ones 24:02 you know... the weird ones," 24:03 when they're not looking and saying that, 24:05 yeah, they have things that they whitewash, like gossip 24:09 and pride and a whole list of other things 24:12 that are in 1st Corinthians 6:9 through 11, 24:15 where it talks about, who will not enter into heaven 24:18 but a lot of those things we've already whitewashed 24:20 we're trying to do the same thing today with homosexuality 24:24 by setting it aside and saying, "You can maintain 24:27 your gay identity even after you're converted" 24:30 and I note that we're probably going to talk 24:32 a little bit about that but for me, 24:34 I then said, "You know what? I think you're right. " 24:37 And I said, "Okay, God, I can't do anything about this" 24:40 I said to my parents, "I'm sorry, this is who I am" 24:43 and they said, "Wayne, we don't know the causes for this, 24:45 but we love you and God loves you 24:47 and you'll always be welcome at home... always know that. " 24:52 and so for the next 40 years... I would live a life 24:55 that was totally absorbed in the gay culture, 24:58 nothing stopped me, drugs, promiscuity, 25:02 I lived in 12 years of male prostitution 25:05 I was looking for somebody who could affirm that I mattered 25:09 that I belonged and that I was loved 25:11 and God let me go down that road 25:14 until... not the church... but God came to me 25:18 one day, when I'm sitting in my bedroom 25:21 and I'm thinking, "Where does this end? 25:23 I know God's Word, I know the Bible, 25:25 my destiny is going to end, I'm only going to have one life 25:29 because I know this isn't pleasing to God. " 25:32 To any gay person watching this that claims to be Christian, 25:37 please go back, please look at what pleases God, 25:43 because He loves you so much, 25:46 don't be deceived like in the Garden of Eden 25:51 like Satan was able to do... by dazzling all kinds of things 25:54 before us and those things felt good, 25:57 eating the fruit was very tasty 25:59 and it brought on great knowledge for... like 3 seconds 26:02 and then she was miserable, right? 26:03 And so, don't come to Judgment Day and say before God, 26:08 "Oh, well, I did what I thought was best" 26:10 when you can find what is best in the Word of God 26:13 and He can tell you and you can believe it 26:15 and it seems impossible to walk away 26:18 but He will not let you down and so I sat there 26:22 and I thought, "I don't know God, 26:25 I've accused God of being gay, 26:27 He made me gay but... " 26:28 see we blame all kinds of things on God that God didn't do 26:31 it's because of our fallen nature, 26:33 it is because of the deception of Satan 26:35 that people indulge in pornography, 26:38 indulging in extra-marital affairs 26:40 and pre-marital sex and homosexuality 26:42 and masturbation, I mean, 26:44 these are the things that Satan does, not God. 26:47 Yeah, they come natural to us because sin is natural 26:50 we're not doing what God wants and God said, 26:53 "I'm right here, I'm right here... 26:55 you're finally starting to think about me, 26:57 I want a relationship with you, I want to engage with you, 27:01 I want intimacy with you, 27:02 will you give me your heart... your life?" 27:04 and I was like, "Oh... oh... I wasn't expecting this 27:09 and I don't want to make any major decisions right here," 27:11 so I started immersing myself into a church environment 27:14 for three months before I went to the pastor 27:17 who was totally unprepared for something like this, 27:20 and the church is still unprepared, 27:22 they were like, "Well... I wasn't expecting a 27:25 converted homosexual... I didn't think that was possible" 27:28 you know, we were like... limiting the Word of God 27:30 and they didn't know what to tell me 27:32 and so, slam dunk, I go... down into the water 27:35 and guess what, I didn't come up straight, 27:38 you know, I still came up... 27:41 and I still had temptations and attractions towards men 27:45 and I still do today but God is like... 27:48 "Ah... I'm right here, I'm right here, I got you" 27:50 and so, He says, "all I want is your heart 27:53 if you give me your heart, 27:55 I'll walk with you on this journey 27:57 you can always turn to me, 27:58 at times I'll probably carry you, Wayne, 28:00 because you'll think you're going to be alone 28:02 but I will never leave you or forsake you 28:04 you can't see me... but you can know that I'm there 28:07 and you can see me spiritually and know that I am God 28:10 and that I will carry you through... to the very end 28:13 and so, on my parents' 67th anniversary, 28:18 I was baptized and I said, 28:20 "Yeah, I want God's way and not mine. " 28:22 And so, sure, today, yeah, there are struggles in it 28:26 there are people inside churches today 28:29 they're just waiting for you to fall 28:31 because they don't think that it's possible 28:33 and they try to limit God and I want to help them to see 28:38 that we can embrace the gospel of Jesus Christ 28:41 and that we can take on a new identity in Jesus Christ 28:44 not buried in my temptations 28:46 or anchored to my temptations and bondage. 28:48 Amen, Wayne, thank you, that's... 28:51 you guys are just... it's so inspirational 28:54 because, you know, there are a lot of things that 28:56 we don't know about... 29:00 we even need to know the right nomenclature, like, you know, 29:03 we don't know that we shouldn't say, "gay lifestyle" 29:06 and... versus gay culture, I mean, 29:08 there are just some things... so this is educational... 29:11 I mean... for us and for the Viewers... 29:13 because there are a lot of things we don't know 29:16 so you're helping us, because we need to know 29:17 how to reach out to our brothers and sisters 29:21 that are in that culture, I almost said, "lifestyle. " 29:25 Wayne: I mean, we slip, we do too. 29:27 Yvonne: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 29:29 Wayne: We have to think about it 29:30 from the perspective of the gay person, yeah. 29:34 Yes, yes, Mike, tell us about your journey. 29:37 So, really, I think it began when I was forty, 29:40 when I came back to the Lord and I said to God, 29:44 "I want to know how this happened, I want to know... " 29:45 Came back? So you had been with Him before and then you... 29:48 Mike: I was raised... born and raised Catholic 29:50 and then I converted at 15 to Adventism, 29:54 my first homosexual experience was actually in Academy 29:57 with a roommate who'd been to juvenile detention. 29:59 I wanted to follow God, 30:02 I thought that I had an understanding 30:04 of who God was, but like Ron, 30:06 even with an education in the Bible, 30:09 I still didn't know how to claim the merits of a risen Savior. 30:11 I thought I had to be good to deserve His goodness 30:14 so, I left the church at 20, 30:16 couldn't find a way to bring 30:18 my sexuality and my spirituality together 30:21 so I walked out of church and at 40 years old, 30:23 through divine intervention, 30:26 it wasn't the church that called me up and came and got me, 30:29 it was my sisters' intercessory prayer, 30:32 two of my sisters... States apart 30:34 were praying together for their brother who was completely off, 30:38 and so, at 40 years' old, 30:40 through some divine circumstances 30:42 I got baptized... with a boyfriend 30:45 and a sexual addiction because the pastor didn't know 30:47 what I was struggling with and I came into this 30:50 evangelistic series on the last night, 30:51 gave my heart to the Lord but I was a complete mess. 30:54 I didn't even know how to relate to men in a non-sexual way 30:58 so, how could... how could a Savior 31:00 that died for me... not want me... sexually? 31:03 That's the thing that was going on inside of my mind, 31:07 so, as I got baptized, the Lord was moving and He knew 31:11 that I needed to make a public expression 31:13 of my desire to know Him, 31:15 I didn't care about the Adventist church 31:17 and to tell you the truth, 31:18 all I knew is that I was following Jesus Christ 31:21 and Him alone and I had faith like... 31:23 maybe a strand of dental floss, that's all I had, 31:26 if somebody would have gotten in my face 31:27 and said something about my boyfriend, 31:29 I would have been gone, and to tell you the truth, 31:32 I probably had a pretty good chip on my shoulder 31:34 I was hoping someone would say that 31:36 because then I could blame God again, 31:38 "Well, see, you messed up, not me" 31:40 and I couldn't help myself 31:42 but eventually, because my sister loved me, 31:45 because she didn't condemn me or my boyfriend, 31:48 she worked side by side with me in my salon as my assistant, 31:51 I had a salon with my lover, 31:53 I had, you know, other gay hairdressers in there, 31:56 and what was so amazing... 31:58 I thought she accepted my gay lifestyle... my gay culture, 32:01 my gay identity, 32:03 so, she was always kind to my lover, 32:05 she'd invite us over for holiday meals, 32:07 she never withheld me from 32:08 interacting with my nephew who was a baby, 32:11 so, she showed me what true Christian love was 32:14 which I thought was acceptance when really in actuality, 32:17 secretly she was praying for my deliverance. 32:20 So, when I came back to the Lord as a mess, 32:23 eventually the Lord addressed my boyfriend and I said, 32:26 "If you want... if you want me out of that life, 32:30 you've got to do it yourself 32:31 because I'm digging up my heels and I'll prove to you 32:33 if you could just convert my boyfriend, 32:34 we'd be this mighty team for you. " 32:36 And you know what? 32:37 God said, "All right, I'll get right on that... " 32:39 and within three weeks my boyfriend broke up with me. 32:41 Yvonne: All right "I'll get right on it and he was gone. " 32:44 I knew that was God intervening, this peace came over me 32:48 but then when I went home alone, 32:49 and I realized... "You're telling me God 32:51 that I'll never be in another relationship again?" 32:54 Not even thinking change was possible for me, 32:57 I didn't even want it, I was looking for any lie... 32:59 just tell me a lie so that I can keep my boyfriend 33:02 and my identity, I wasn't even interested 33:05 but as I read the Word of God and I realized now, 33:08 "All right, I was following Jesus 33:11 and he was the only one that I could relate to," 33:13 and I cried out and I said, 33:15 "Why would you ask me to do that? 33:17 Why would you ask me to give up everything that I am 33:20 and everything that I've created because I didn't even think 33:22 that it was possible to change, I didn't choose this, 33:24 I didn't want this, but now that I'm here, 33:27 and now I have this great guy, 33:29 why would you ask me to give that up?" 33:30 And so, for months it was just me and Jesus Christ. 33:34 I would sob and I remember thinking to myself, 33:37 I'll never have someone to hold, 33:40 I'll never be able to tell someone that I love them again, 33:42 but during that time, 33:44 it was only Jesus that was holding me 33:46 and loving me and filling that emptiness inside of me 33:50 and I started to revive... I started to come alive again 33:53 and realize that I don't have to have a sexual encounter 33:56 to be satisfied, and I didn't even know that the 33:59 peace of Jesus Christ could satisfy 34:02 more than an illicit sexual situation 34:04 and as shocking as that was to me, 34:07 I really started to desire more 34:10 and when I saw the testimony of homosexuals that had actually 34:13 changed their lives and God had moved miraculously 34:17 in their life, then that was motivation, 34:18 there was a real feminine guy named Sy Rogers, 34:21 he's been doing this for many years, 34:23 very feminine... lived as a woman for a year and a half, 34:26 I struggled with transgenderism also as a little boy, 34:29 so, as I saw his testimony, I was so offended 34:31 thinking, "God converted that nelly person 34:35 or whatever, effeminate person... " 34:36 but what was so amazing is as I watched his testimony, 34:38 then all of a sudden I realized, 34:40 "Well, if God could do it for him, 34:41 then he can certainly do it for me" 34:43 and that was when, I started to really go in the 34:46 direction of... "All right Lord, you said you can heal me... " 34:49 in Ministry of Healing on page 17, 34:52 on the very first page it says 34:53 that Jesus came to heal men completely, 34:55 physically, spiritually and mentally, 34:58 and in the margin of my book, I put an "H" and a circle 35:01 and said, "There, it's on you Lord, 35:03 I can't change who I'm attracted to, 35:05 I can't change my desires, 35:06 but you say you can... this is on you," 35:08 and as I started to claim those promises, 35:11 as I turned those pages, 35:12 divine healing really started to enter into my life 35:16 and that's been my motivation. 35:19 Amen, you know, what I'm hearing 35:22 from all four of you is that 35:24 there was a place of brokenness early on 35:30 early on... something happened that caused you to just get... 35:37 and we all have something that has gone on in our lives, 35:41 I mean, this is not like some indictment of you, 35:44 it's just an observation that early on something happened 35:49 and there was a need for healing and you sought connection, 35:54 you sought an answer to the problem... 35:58 the answer wasn't a sexual thing, 36:02 the problem wasn't a sexual thing actually... 36:06 what you were doing is seeking a sexual solution 36:09 to a non-sexual problem. 36:11 That's what... the problem was 36:13 the brokenness, but you needed the intimacy 36:17 and so you found it through same-sex attraction 36:21 and what God said to all of you in a sense is, 36:24 "Let me heal you... let me... let me fix it... " 36:28 because we all have stuff that we need to have fixed... 36:31 Jason: And we all look to fill the void. 36:32 Yvonne: That's right. 36:33 Jason: And a lot of times we'll look everywhere but Christ, 36:37 I turned... I did drugs and alcohol and stuff like that 36:41 and so... you look to all these other things 36:45 but you're still empty, 36:46 and even when you're making good money 36:48 and have the nice car and the house and everything like that 36:51 there's still the emptiness... 36:53 there's still the void that only Jesus can fill. 36:55 You know a lot of the dominant factors 36:58 that I see in homosexuality is a 37:02 perception of rejection 37:03 and I grew up feeling rejected by my father 37:07 and rejected by my peers and we become... 37:10 after years of dealing with this perception, 37:13 we become hypersensitive to that 37:15 and I think that's probably one of the reasons 37:19 today we have so much restriction on speech 37:22 and so forth... because now, a difference of opinion 37:25 is viewed by the gay culture as rejection 37:29 and rejection is not nice in fact, we'll call it hate, 37:32 and we need to be protected from hate 37:35 so we need to be protected from a difference of opinion 37:38 even if it's the Word of God... it's rejection. 37:41 So there's this feeling of rejection from God, 37:44 from the church and Society, 37:47 from our peers, from our parents or whatever 37:50 and the sexual fulfillment that you're talking about 37:55 is a counterfeit way to deal with that rejection 37:59 because we're now accepted, someone is accepting us 38:04 and a perverted acceptance is better than rejection. 38:08 and that's what we end up dealing with. 38:10 And let's talk about that a little bit, 38:12 I think that now... you don't see as much rejection... 38:15 you see more acceptance and how did that come about? 38:19 How did that shift in Society to where now 38:22 the gay culture is more accepted... socially accepted? 38:28 Because church congregations are taking their cue 38:32 from the gay community now and so the teaching is... 38:37 is that the imposition of what the gay community desires 38:41 the "world message... " 38:42 where God says to come away from the world 38:44 instead of being a part of the world 38:45 is being mirrored upon churches 38:47 and churches... in their ignorance... 38:49 instead of digging and getting the truth, 38:51 the love and truth message that they can offer, 38:54 they're just saying, "Okay, okay, I'm sorry 38:57 we hurt you and that wasn't right 38:59 and so, come on in and and we... " 39:02 not only do they accept the sinner 39:04 but they accept the sin with it. 39:06 Because like... when you're looking at the television shows 39:10 and stuff today... like... almost every television show 39:13 has some kind of innuendo in there. 39:16 Mike: It's normalized. 39:18 Jason: Yes, yeah, yeah, it's just blatantly open. 39:21 So, I think, part of what we're really talking about... 39:25 you said, Yvonne, 39:26 God was saying, "Let me heal you" 39:29 and instantly what came into my mind was, 39:31 No... God was saying, "Mike, let me love you," 39:35 and it's interesting because 39:37 we're accused of not being loving, 39:39 that we have a hate message when really God is saying, 39:41 "Just let me love you and part of loving you... 39:43 you've got to separate yourself from the things that 39:46 keep you from my love. " 39:48 And after we started experiencing that love, 39:50 that's the only thing that drew me away from the things 39:53 that I desperately was trying to hang on to. 39:56 Yvonne: So... oh, go ahead Jay. 39:58 I would like to go down the line with each of you 40:03 and ask what advice would you give 40:05 to people that are in church when they encounter 40:09 someone in the gay culture 40:11 how do they go about showing them that they love them 40:16 and that they care about them and trying to welcome them 40:20 into the church 40:21 because it's a fine line without condoning the behavior. 40:25 Sure, well, I think one of the biggest things for me was 40:30 that I was expecting people to react a certain way, 40:35 I was expecting them to be surprised 40:38 and it was surprising to me when they weren't surprised 40:41 and I think sometimes we... we express a lot more 40:48 than is beneficial and we look at a person 40:52 and we assume we know their motives, their reasoning, 40:55 we look at a person and we think that they are just rebellious 40:59 and obviously they're just troublemakers 41:02 and they need to get their lives straightened up 41:04 but a lot of the times we are just honestly and earnestly 41:08 doing what we believe is true 41:10 with the information that we have 41:11 and so I would encourage people 41:13 not to look at someone and assume you know 41:15 what is going on in their life 41:16 and why they're doing what they're doing 41:18 but to just reach out to them 41:22 like you would anyone else and make yourself transparent 41:26 because when you are vulnerable enough 41:30 to make yourself transparent and open up to someone 41:33 about what you're struggling with, 41:34 it helps them to realize that... that you can relate to them 41:39 you can trust them... that they're not just coming... 41:43 I'm not just coming to you to try and expose your mess 41:46 because I'm a mess too, you know. 41:49 Yvonne: That's true, yeah. 41:51 And when we can have that kind of... that kind of love 41:56 that shows that we're all in need and that the remedy is 42:01 is big enough for any of that, for all of that, 42:04 for all of the mess and I would also say too 42:08 a life of example 42:10 speaks much more than any amount of words really can 42:14 so those are the gems that I would share. 42:16 Group: Amen. Yvonne: That's good yeah. 42:18 We are counseled that the most powerful witness for truth 42:21 is a loving and lovable Christian 42:24 and so, we need... as church members... 42:27 we need to befriend whoever comes to our church. 42:31 In my church, we have a fellow that has come in 42:35 that is a... he's a level 4 sex offender, 42:40 and he's registered and he has been put out 42:45 of all the different churches in the community, 42:47 but he is coming to our church 42:49 and he is finding that he is loved and he's cared for, 42:53 he's befriended... 42:54 there is a struggle with some of the members 42:57 in that area... but we're trying to educate the members 43:00 to be friendly and not hold this over him, 43:05 he is coming to church for a reason, 43:07 he wants help... and when we read the words of Jesus, 43:11 "Seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness" 43:14 we have to realize that the gay issue 43:17 may be symptomatic... like you were saying 43:20 it is a symptom... the gay behavior... 43:23 is really a symptom of something else much deeper 43:26 and a lot of times we need to realize 43:30 that there are so many other areas that need to be dealt with 43:34 before the behavior is confronted 43:38 because that can be down the list of things that the Lord 43:43 needs to take care of and so we need to work on 43:46 bringing them to Christ 43:48 and developing a relationship with Christ 43:50 maybe not even addressing the gay issue 43:52 until they bring it up because as they behold Christ 43:56 and come closer to Him... they will start seeing themselves 43:59 that there is something that is holding them back 44:02 and they may start asking questions 44:04 and we need to be instead... in season, out of season 44:07 to answer their questions that they bring forward. 44:10 Yvonne: Hmmm... hmmm... 44:11 Don't play... Holy Spirit Junior it's not becoming. 44:18 Yvonne: Holy Spirit Junior? Wayne: Yeah. 44:19 You know we've done a good job in many denominations 44:23 not just the one that we represent 44:25 of holding out the truth and just... making sure that 44:30 you understand truth 44:31 because if you understand truth, 44:32 you'll change, but I share in a presentation 44:36 that I have frequently, 44:37 you can't share what you don't have 44:40 and if you don't have... 44:42 if you personally haven't experienced 44:44 a personal, intimate love from Jesus Christ, 44:47 you're not going to do a very good job 44:49 of sharing that with someone else. 44:50 Open up your heart and thank the person 44:54 for being willing to share their walk, their experience, 44:57 what happened to them, what they struggle with 45:02 and let them know that they are loved, 45:04 that they are welcomed, don't be afraid that... 45:06 that you're not seeing change immediately, 45:09 the change that you expect to see 45:10 let God do the work, go to God in prayer, 45:14 be invitational to the person, 45:16 make sure that they're welcome in your home 45:18 share with them the things that God has done for you, 45:23 the things that you thought were impossible 45:26 and think a little bit about the fact that 45:28 that we haven't had a real good message 45:31 in our denominations today with regards to homosexuality 45:35 and the opposite of homosexuality... being holiness 45:38 you know... not heterosexuality. 45:40 Think about inviting 'Coming Out' Ministries 45:43 to come to your church and to share from a personal... 45:47 a very personal perspective 45:48 and a Biblical perspective at the same time, 45:51 you'll be surprised because what you might expect 45:54 from us might not be what you see, 45:55 what you may see is that you'll see the testimony 45:59 of what Jesus has been able to do 46:00 and some guidelines that God has given us 46:03 in the process that maybe we've overlooked 46:05 for a very long time. 46:06 That's great, how can people get in touch 46:09 with 'Coming Out' Ministries? 46:10 comingoutministries. org is our website 46:13 and you can click on: Contact 46:15 and we'll be happy to get you on the schedule. 46:18 That's incredible... thank you. 46:20 Jason: What about you Mike, what advice would you have? 46:22 I was thinking about all the answers that I wanted to give, 46:25 they've said but I think that 46:27 one of the things that we can definitely do is... 46:29 each one of us... is sitting here 46:31 because of intercessory prayer 46:33 and the damage of a message of saying, 46:35 "You're okay in your gay identity" 46:38 is the fact that... that means you'll stop praying for me 46:40 and it was only because Danielle's mother said to God, 46:43 "Interrupt her plans... 46:44 don't give her what she seeks, show her she needs you," right? 46:47 Ron's parents were dropping of books, 46:49 under his pillow, on a cabinet, 46:51 behind the toilet, 46:53 they were dropping off these books and praying for their son, 46:55 Wayne's mother and father... for 40 years... 46:59 asked an Elder to pray, after 40 years... and they said, 47:01 "Is it possible for my son to change to come back to you?" 47:04 and this Elder didn't want to dash their hopes and he said, 47:07 "Well, let's pray" but he didn't think it was possible. 47:10 Knelt down and prayed this faithless prayer, 47:12 they got up, his parents were crying 47:14 they'd been praying for their son for over 40 years 47:16 and then, that Wednesday, 47:18 was when Wayne called his parents and he said, 47:20 "I'm getting baptized this weekend" 47:22 forty years... and so, one of the things is... 47:24 we like to encourage people, "Don't stop praying" 47:27 God may not be able to use you but He could use something else 47:31 and so, if you think that this is acceptable, 47:33 then you won't pray and have the opportunity 47:36 to send angels to minister to someone's help 47:38 and then, don't drop the ball 47:40 when they start coming into church 47:42 and you're like... you don't know what to do 47:44 and what I love is... 47:45 is... God makes the gospel so simple, 47:48 there's not a criteria for the homosexual 47:50 and a criteria for the drug addict 47:53 and a protocol for somebody else... 47:55 it's all the same, 47:56 God says, "If I be lifted up... I will draw all men unto me" 48:00 and what ministered to my soul was not attacking my lifestyle 48:03 or my culture or even in my history, 48:05 just start showing me the love of Jesus... in how you live, 48:08 in how you represent the Word and then that draws them 48:11 and then let the Holy Spirit 48:13 worry about the converting of that person 48:15 and it may take a while. Yvonne: Right, right. 48:17 You know about being a praying mom, don't you? 48:20 Yes, I do... yes I do, 48:23 I was praying and continue to pray actually, 48:26 I've seen God do such amazing things, 48:29 He brought Jason back and I have an older son 48:33 and I'm still praying for him 48:35 and I know God is going to do that for him 48:38 and so, I'm just so grateful and all of you 48:41 are sitting here again... because of intercessory prayer. 48:44 It works... prayer works... don't give up, 48:46 don't give up praying for that friend, that family member, 48:50 that person that you know... that friend of a friend, 48:54 that friend on Facebook, don't give up 48:57 because God's got a plan... God's got a plan 49:01 He wants to give people the abundant life 49:04 and we have a part in that by praying. 49:08 What would you say has been one of the greatest challenges 49:12 for your ministry both within and outside of the church? 49:17 I think false accusation... 49:21 there are people that make assumptions 49:24 without listening to us 49:25 and so, there has been a history of "change ministries" 49:28 meaning that... a ministry is going to take someone 49:31 that is homosexual and make them heterosexual 49:33 and that's how you gain glory in God's presence by doing... 49:38 by changing your sex habits and there are therapies out there 49:42 like "reparative therapy" "conversion therapy" 49:45 we've got to get someone involved in that 49:46 so their life can be changed and a lot of damage has been done 49:50 maybe some good has been done by that 49:51 but a lot of damage has been done by these therapies. 49:54 This isn't "conversion therapy" 49:55 this isn't "reparative therapy?" 49:57 Mike: This is "heart therapy. " 49:58 Okay, okay, unpack it for us, unpack it... 50:00 Well, Yvonne, we really are a full spectrum ministry 50:04 and we've accused of trying to change 50:07 homosexuals to heterosexuals 50:09 but each one of us is still on a journey 50:12 of that healing, fortunately for Ron, 50:14 within a year he was married, he has children 50:17 and they're grown and 50:18 Danielle faces challenges of being a young woman 50:22 who has committed herself to ministry, 50:24 I didn't even think it was possible but several years ago, 50:27 I actually started to experience attractions to the opposite sex 50:32 and so, now it's like going through puberty twice 50:34 but... and then Wayne is in his own experience also... 50:39 of waiting for that one woman 50:41 that God might put in front of him 50:42 so, if you took five minutes to listen to us, 50:47 you would realize that we are not promoting heterosexuality 50:50 we're promoting holiness in Jesus Christ 50:53 and as that is our focus what's amazing is 50:55 certain things start to fall off 50:57 and other things start to come in. 50:58 I think there is a real misunderstanding 51:01 with a lot of Christians about the plan of salvation period. 51:04 Because one thing that we keep getting confronted with was 51:08 is this issue of temptation... have you ever been tempted 51:11 or are you tempted and the question 51:15 gives an impression that if we're tempted, 51:18 we're not changed into the image of Christ 51:21 or being changed into the image of Christ, 51:24 but Jesus was tempted in all points like as we are 51:27 yet without sin, He suffered being tempted, 51:30 He resisted unto blood striving against temptation 51:34 so, many Christians just don't seem to understand 51:38 the difference between temptation 51:40 and orientation for one thing, 51:43 and our orientation is the direction 51:46 we're choosing to go by God's grace, 51:49 it's not the direction Satan wants us to go 51:52 and so, we really are trying to educate Christians 51:56 to understand that this whole concept of temptation 52:02 and sin... that we're not... sin is not temptation... 52:07 or temptation is not sin, 52:09 temptation reveals Satan's plan for your life 52:13 but God has a plan for our lives too 52:16 and we're choosing to follow God's plan 52:19 regardless of Satan's efforts. 52:21 Sin... when you yield to that temptation... 52:24 when you give in to the temptation, that's one of them. 52:27 And claim the gift that God is offering you 52:30 of a new identity in Jesus Christ. 52:33 A new creature is what He promises in 2nd Corinthians 5:17 52:38 you don't have to linger in the past 52:40 and cling to that gay identity 52:43 or be a non-practicing homosexual 52:45 that's just things that 52:46 even the church is offering today... a new identity 52:49 but it's not the identity that Jesus has promised us... 52:52 let's make sure that we go to the Word 52:54 where God says, "Such were some of you 52:56 claim the identity that He's offering you today 52:59 no matter what you've suffered from... in your past. " 53:02 Yes, that's great, before we end 53:06 the time has flown by, this has just been so wonderful 53:09 you have done a series for Pure Choices 53:14 on Dare to Dream, in fact this is the second time 53:17 that 'Coming Out' Ministries has been here, 53:20 this is your first time Danielle 53:21 and we're so happy that you're part of it, 53:23 what do we have to look forward to... 53:27 what does the Viewer... 53:28 what kinds of topics did you cover on Pure Choices 53:31 because we gave... 53:32 you guys got this whole series here 53:36 so what would you say you cover during this series? 53:40 You know, our first series was called: The Gay Puzzle 53:44 and what we did is we basically gave our testimonies 53:47 and then... some of the topics 53:49 I think that were really depending on us personally, 53:51 now after we've been in ministry for four years, I think, 53:55 Wayne: Five... 53:56 Five, thank you, now what we've done is 53:58 we've gone much deeper and realize that there are 54:00 issues of transgenderism, 54:02 issues of prefixes before our titles 54:07 and we want to address... 54:08 Wayne: Parents... Mike: Yeah, parents... 54:10 we've interviewed parents and... 54:11 and talked about the deep emotional pain that they have 54:14 when we go to different venues, 54:16 we find that parents have a deeper shame 54:18 and guilt about what their children are going through 54:22 and so, we really started to reach out and realize 54:25 that there's a ministry involved in that as well. 54:28 So, I think we have a fuller picture of what we began 54:31 in our first series with you three years ago. 54:34 You know, our testimonies are given to inspire 54:38 and then... but we go beyond inspiring... 54:41 we want to enlighten and we want to equip the church 54:44 to deal with this issue in a very redemptive way 54:47 and we thank you for offering us the privilege 54:50 and the opportunity to do this on Pure Choices. 54:53 Well, we thank you, because this series 54:57 is just going to be so powerful. 55:00 Do you have anything Jay before we close? 55:03 Not only powerful but really educational 55:07 so a lot of people get an inside look 55:10 and I'm glad that you guys are address the question of 55:13 how should Christians go about welcoming people to their church 55:19 we need to constantly be building the church 55:21 and we want to see everyone in heaven, 55:24 Ron: Not willing that any should perish. 55:29 Amen, you guys are on the frontlines and so 55:32 I ask you Viewers to pray for 'Coming Out' Ministries 55:35 because they are truly on the frontlines here... 55:39 really going up against the Kingdom of darkness... 55:42 there's so much... 55:43 they are swimming against the tide... 55:46 so I thank you Mike and Wayne and Ron and Danielle 55:50 for all that you do for the cause of Christ. 55:54 Know that we love you, know that we are behind you 55:57 and I hope that our Viewers will be praying... 56:01 that you'll be praying for this wonderful ministry 56:04 because it's really difficult out there. 56:07 Thank you so much for everything and thank you Jay, 56:11 you did a great job, it's really good. 56:16 Make sure to check out this season of Pure Choices. 56:23 That was so powerful you know, 56:27 we are new creatures in Christ. 56:31 The Bible says in 2nd Corinthians 5:17, 56:34 "Therefore if any man be in Christ, 56:37 he is a new creature: old things are passed away; 56:42 behold, all things are become new. " 56:45 We praise God for the abundant life that He provides for us 56:49 if we'll follow him. 56:50 Thank you so much for supporting us here at Dare to Dream, 56:54 thank you for watching these programs 56:56 and we pray that you'll be able to apply these 56:59 spiritual principles to your life. 57:01 Please support us with your prayers and your financial gifts 57:06 and if the Holy Spirit impresses you, 57:08 please send your tax-deductible love gift to: 57:36 Also, you can like us on Facebook. 57:39 We welcome your suggestions, if you have topics 57:42 that you want us to cover in programming, 57:44 please let us know 57:46 and if our programs are being a blessing to you, 57:49 also, let us know that 57:50 because we want to know who is being reached 57:53 by these programs. 57:54 Our goal is to help people to find Jesus 57:58 through these programs. 57:59 Thank you so much for joining us, 58:01 join us next time 58:02 because it just wouldn't be the same... without you. |
Revised 2016-05-17