Urban Report


Three Angels Broadcasting Network

Program transcript

Participants: Yvonne Lewis (Host), Jason Bradley (Host), Dr. DeWitt Stanton Williams


Series Code: UBR

Program Code: UBR000189A

00:01 Stay tuned to meet a man
00:02 whose middle names are: Dedication and Service.
00:05 My name is Yvonne Lewis
00:06 and I'm Jason Bradley
00:08 and you're watching Urban Report.
00:34 Hello and welcome to Urban Report.
00:36 Our guest today is Dr. DeWitt Williams.
00:39 He is the author of several books
00:41 and has served as President of the Central Africa Union
00:44 and was the former Director of Health Ministries
00:47 for the North American Division of Seventh-day Adventists.
00:50 Welcome to Urban Report Dr. Williams.
00:53 Good to be here Dr. Lewis.
00:55 It is so good to have you, you know,
00:57 I have known you and your family for years
01:01 because when my family moved to Oakwood
01:06 in Huntsville, Alabama,
01:07 my dad went as an older student,
01:10 he went back to school, so he was older than you
01:12 but you were there when he was there
01:14 and my sister and I lived there as children
01:17 and I remember you,
01:18 I remember when you were dating your lovely wife, Margaret,
01:21 I remember her sister, so... we kind of go back a ways.
01:26 DeWitt: That's a long time. Yvonne: Yes.
01:27 DeWitt: More than 50 years.
01:29 Yvonne: Oh my goodness, you don't have to tell that!
01:32 You don't have to tell that... but it is really...
01:36 it has been a long time
01:38 and you've had such an interesting journey
01:41 so I really wanted our Viewers to become familiar with you
01:45 and your work and... just the path that God has...
01:49 the paths... because you've done so many different things,
01:53 all though... on one path... leading to the Lord.
01:57 So, let's talk about your journey a bit,
01:59 where were you born and raised?
02:01 I was born in Philadelphia... South Philadelphia...
02:04 kind of a poor family, there were six siblings
02:11 and my older sisters, Sophia and Morgan and then me
02:15 and Richard... excuse me... Clinton, Richard and Alyssa
02:19 and my mother and father and my grandmother...
02:22 we all lived in the same house and... as a matter of fact...
02:25 my father was renting a place across the street
02:28 and he saw that this place across the street
02:31 was empty so he just went in...
02:33 moved into this house that was unoccupied
02:36 and we lived in there maybe for ten years or so,
02:40 he just took it over and nobody...
02:43 Yvonne: Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait...
02:45 it was abandoned... it was abandoned.
02:48 So, he just... went over there
02:50 and you lived there for ten years and nobody...
02:53 Yeah, we fixed it up, there was no bathroom inside,
02:56 it was an outhouse, he moved the bathroom inside
02:59 and put in heating, painted and everything
03:01 and made it a nice home.
03:03 So we lived there for many years.
03:05 So there was no... you didn't have to pay rent
03:07 or anything, you just went and occupied...
03:09 we're not recommending that to anybody right now
03:12 it's just... maybe you could have done it then...
03:15 but he just went and occupied?
03:18 Occupied... because it was abandoned
03:19 and people said, "This place has been abandoned
03:22 for about two or three years"
03:23 and it kept getting worse and when he got it all fixed up
03:26 apparently the owners... people told the owners...
03:28 "It looks good now" and they came back and took it,
03:30 so we had to move out.
03:32 Oh, so they waited for you to fix it up
03:34 and literally get back home,
03:35 now what about electricity though... what... I mean...
03:38 I don't... I think he worked...
03:41 I don't really know it was so long ago
03:42 he worked out some kind of way where
03:44 electricity was turned on and he paid for it.
03:46 and... but I remember that as our first home...
03:50 living there... then we moved to North Philadelphia,
03:54 and then we moved to Germantown
03:55 and finally, my father didn't want us to live in the city,
03:58 so we finally moved out to Glenside
04:00 which is a suburb of Philadelphia
04:02 and we built the house.
04:04 He had four boys so we were his special team.
04:07 He used us... when we got about the age of 13 or 14...
04:12 and he saw little muscles coming, you know,
04:15 and we were his team, we did painting,
04:18 and paper hanging and everything.
04:20 We built the house that we moved into.
04:21 Wow! so... in our Society today,
04:26 there is such a crisis with absentee fathers,
04:31 how did having your father in your home impact your life?
04:35 Well, you know, I really admired my father.
04:39 I... I... he was my model...
04:43 he was a very religious man, he wanted to be a minister
04:48 and he had no... he had a brother
04:52 but his brother died early on so we never knew his brother,
04:54 my mother had no brothers and sisters
04:56 so we didn't have any relatives so much to speak about
05:01 but he was a good model, he prayed for us,
05:06 he had little talks with us, he taught us how to work,
05:10 I knew how to work,
05:12 he came to school and actually got us from school,
05:16 he had a truck called,
05:17 Integrity Building and Construction Company
05:20 and we changed from our school clothes
05:22 into our work clothes and go to work,
05:25 and to be truthful,
05:27 I didn't think I was going to go to college
05:29 because graduation was Tuesday night
05:31 and he took me to graduation
05:34 in the Integrity Building and Construction Company truck
05:38 and that night I found out that I had two scholarships.
05:42 I had a scholarship, back then it was 500 dollars
05:45 which was a lot for me, from the Senior Work Day
05:48 and the Lord is good because I had...
05:50 I wanted to go to college but I knew we didn't have money,
05:52 the Senior Work Day Scholarship,
05:53 the students gave me the 500 dollars
05:55 and some Ladies' Group in Willow Grove...
05:57 they gave me 200 dollars, so I praise the Lord,
06:01 here I was... going to Oakwood which was my dream.
06:04 so, I think the Bible says,
06:07 "The desire of the righteous shall be granted"
06:11 and I'm not saying I was righteous
06:12 but I think my father was
06:14 and he started a number of churches,
06:16 he started the Willow Grove church,
06:18 he started a church in Williamstown, New Jersey.
06:22 Jason: He started the Willow Grove?
06:23 Dr. Williams: Yeah, Jason: Really?
06:25 Yeah... he started... there was a... you know...
06:27 the only church we had at one time was the Ebenezer church
06:30 and that's the church but...
06:32 Jason: Is that church still around?
06:35 I went to Willow Grove a while ago...
06:38 that's where my brother... that's where Val lives
06:40 and I went to church there is that the same...
06:43 I wonder if that's the same one.
06:45 I think so, go and look under the...
06:47 go look... I think... it will even say it in the history
06:50 that the Willow Grove was started...
06:52 he didn't start it all by himself...
06:54 but he and several other people but he loved to preach,
06:59 he loved to teach Sabbath School,
07:00 we would walk to church
07:02 when we lived in South Philadelphia,
07:05 the church was maybe a mile from us,
07:07 we walked... all of us...
07:08 all the children would walk to church
07:10 and we were there... he was the Sabbath School teacher
07:12 I mean, the Sabbath School Superintendent,
07:14 so we had to be there on time.
07:16 Church was our life.
07:17 You know, I'm hearing... what I'm hearing you say is that
07:22 your dad taught you a number of things,
07:24 spirituality... and not...
07:25 this is not to negate what your mom taught you
07:28 but as I listen to you, I'm thinking that
07:31 he implanted certain things in you... a good strong work ethic
07:36 "integrity" was the name of his company
07:39 and so, all of these things are preparing you for service
07:46 preparing you to do what God had for you to do
07:50 and I remember we interviewed someone here
07:54 about how children succeed and that's the name of this book
07:59 his name is Paul Tough and he was talking about
08:00 what makes a person successful,
08:04 how do you help a child to be successful
08:07 and one of the things is character building
08:09 it was not just about academics, it's about character building
08:13 and that's what your dad
08:14 was doing with you... it sounds as though...
08:17 he was helping to build your character,
08:20 your integrity, your work ethic...
08:23 getting you prepared for life.
08:25 That's also one of the reasons
08:27 why Adventist education is so important too
08:30 because it helps with that character building.
08:32 Yvonne: Absolutely.
08:33 I actually didn't go to the Adventist schools,
08:35 Oakwood was my first time that I went to an Adventist School
08:39 and I was actually very happy to be there because
08:42 I could participate,
08:43 when I went to public schools,
08:45 they had all kinds of activities on Friday nights
08:49 and on the Sabbath and they always had dancing and...
08:53 and so I usually didn't go, the kids knew I worked
08:58 and so, I was honored to know that
09:00 they had given me that Senior Work Day...
09:03 the Senior Work Day is... all the kids would go out
09:05 and work in the community and they gave that money
09:07 that day... to certain students that they thought
09:10 needed some help, so, I was honored.
09:12 That's great.
09:14 And I felt good to be able to go to Oakwood
09:16 because my life seemed to open
09:19 and when I got to Oakwood my first year,
09:22 I was there with my good friend...
09:24 with Paul Monk, you know Paul Monk?
09:25 Yvonne: Yes.
09:26 But the second year is when I saw my beautiful bride-to-be.
09:31 Oh, let's talk about that.
09:33 Yeah, how did you guys meet, how did that come about?
09:36 You know, I was just trying to think of how did we meet
09:40 because Paul Monk... you know... we were very playful...
09:44 and I think the first time we met is...
09:49 I don't know... maybe I shouldn't have said it
09:52 but we changed the signs,
09:54 they were doing renovation on the Girls' bathroom
09:57 and the Boys' bathroom, we changed the signs...
09:59 Oh, it's a prank now.
10:02 So we did a prank and we had
10:04 Dr. Plumber to go into the wrong bathroom
10:06 you know... Yvonne: Was it E.J. Plumber?
10:09 I don't know what it was but we called him Professor Plumber,
10:12 whatever his first name was and my wife was in there
10:16 and here is Dr. Plumber coming in
10:17 and when she came outside and she saw Paul Monk and I
10:22 she knew that we had done a prank
10:24 and so, I think that was how we got introduced to each other.
10:28 Was she angry or...?
10:30 Dr. Williams: She was... she was kind of angry
10:33 and, as I said, a lot of times we were supposed to go out
10:36 but we couldn't go out because I was under punishment.
10:39 I never did anything really bad but a lot of pranks.
10:42 Yvonne: Ah ha... ah ha...
10:43 And between myself and Paul Monk we did strange things.
10:46 So how did you go from her looking at you,
10:52 "Oh this guy is a prankster" to "Oh, I like him. "
10:55 I think I made the Dean's List.
10:57 Yvonne: Oh... well I think that will do it.
10:59 Jason: So you got good grades eh?
11:02 She said, "He's not as crazy as we think he is,
11:05 he's got a little bit of sense up there," you know, so...
11:07 Yvonne: So what did you major in?
11:10 I majored in Religion and History
11:13 and my wife actually was a good student,
11:19 she was an extremely good student,
11:21 she had grown up as a Catholic and she wanted to be a Nun
11:24 and maybe in her Sophomore year of college,
11:31 her family went to a tent revival held by Elder Fordham
11:37 and they all joined the church
11:38 but she had looked up to the Catholic Church
11:41 and wanted to be a Nun
11:42 and so that put her on the path to come to Oakwood,
11:46 so, but... her family... they were all Catholics.
11:50 Wow! that's going to be an interesting conversion too
11:53 from being Catholic to Adventist
11:55 because there are quite a few differences...
11:59 quite a few differences.
12:01 You know, I was thinking about
12:03 Dr. Williams was saying that he wasn't in an Adventist School
12:08 and how they had... in public school
12:11 all of these distractions, and dances and all that,
12:14 and I thought about you
12:16 and how you wanted to public school
12:18 for a minute... and how, yeah, so...
12:20 Okay, so this is what happened, right,
12:22 I was going to a private school, Adventist School
12:26 and I wanted to go to a public school,
12:28 I wanted to go to a public high school,
12:30 so, I ended up going to Arlington High School
12:33 and my mom... Dr. Williams: Public School?
12:36 Yes... and so my mom was saying that...
12:38 the first sign... the first thing you want to do
12:42 on a Friday...
12:43 the first time you want to do something on a Friday night
12:46 or Sabbath... and all that stuff,
12:48 I'm pulling you back and you're going to private school, right?
12:52 I was in that school for probably... like... 2 to 3 weeks
12:55 at best... and they had the dance,
12:58 I wanted to go to the dance, it was Homecoming Dance,
13:01 I wanted to go, she was like,
13:02 "No! you're going back to private school"
13:05 and that was short-lived.
13:07 I enjoyed... I went to Abington...
13:11 I enjoyed the school, people were very nice
13:13 but like I said... I was kind of socially ostracized
13:17 because all the important things seemed to be
13:21 either Sabbath or Friday night.
13:24 Did you play sports?
13:25 I did for a while until, as I said,
13:28 I got up to a certain size... that's when my father figured
13:31 that we could work in
13:33 Integrity Building and Construction Company
13:34 but I did run track, I ran track,
13:37 we... I did wrestling...
13:39 and I think I did a little bit of football,
13:41 we had weight classes and I wasn't big
13:44 but for the weight classes it was all right
13:48 and I was an "End,"
13:50 I was not as athletic as my other two brothers
13:53 my baby brother was five years' younger so he...
13:57 but my oldest brother, Morgan was quite athletic
14:00 and my baby brother, Clinton, you may have known Clinton...
14:01 Yvonne: I remember Clinton. Dr. Williams:Clinton Williams Jr
14:03 But I could run... I could, I mean... that was good
14:05 I was good in... but I wasn't as coordinated as
14:08 you know, and they could move their feet and dribble
14:10 and stuff like that but I could run.
14:12 So when you... when... after you got out of high school
14:15 and you went to Oakwood and you're on the Dean's List
14:17 and you're finding that this is really a good place for you,
14:21 it's a good fit for you
14:23 and you met the love of your life there
14:25 after you left Oakwood, what did you do?
14:27 We both graduated because I had to drop out of school
14:32 one year for financial reasons and I had to come back
14:35 and I worked at a place in Pennsylvania
14:38 so it kind of made me a little...
14:41 a lot serious too... because my wife caught up with me,
14:43 Margaret caught up with me and we were in the same grade then
14:46 and a lot of students had moved on
14:50 so my third year in school, I was quite serious
14:53 and the fourth year... I was very serious.
14:55 I was the President of Student Movement
14:57 and we graduated in May of '62
15:02 and we got married in August of '62
15:06 so, I dated her for the four years that she was there
15:09 and right after we graduated, we got married
15:13 and they called her to teach at Pine Forge,
15:16 so that was our first... we lived in a little "Snake House"
15:20 at Pine Forge right above Elder Sebastian...
15:23 Sister Sebastian... and she taught there for one year
15:25 and then the next year,
15:27 I said I wanted my career, I wanted to be a minister
15:30 so she said, "Let's go to Oakwood"
15:32 so we went to Oakwood, excuse me... Andrews...
15:34 we went to Andrews... not Oakwood...
15:35 we went to Andrews and were there for a year
15:40 and I left Andrews to be a pastor
15:42 at Oklahoma City, I had three churches...
15:45 Oklahoma City, Enid and Langston
15:47 and the Lord blessed us,
15:49 I have to say that the Lord has been good to us
15:51 and my wife was a good helpmeet she didn't like the...
15:55 she... I wanted her to learn to play the piano and sing
16:00 but she didn't... she never to do that,
16:01 she said... she didn't want to do anything... public life...
16:05 but she supported me,
16:06 you couldn't talk about me...
16:08 her DeWitt... you couldn't talk about me
16:10 but she supported me and the Lord blessed me
16:13 and at an Evangelistic Meeting, we baptized maybe...
16:17 68 people in the church, we build a new church,
16:19 as soon as we built the church,
16:21 19... the church... we built it, we had a big dedication,
16:24 they called us to the mission field.
16:27 So in 1967, we left to go to the Congo
16:30 and we had one little girl, Deitrice
16:33 and our second girl was born in the Congo.
16:37 You pastored three churches at one time
16:40 and then you built one... so you were on number four?
16:43 How did you... how did you...
16:45 you must be excellent with time management,
16:47 how did you manage that?
16:48 Well, I do like to manage time though,
16:51 I do believe in managing time and I don't watch a lot of TV
16:54 I may not watch this.
16:56 Yvonne: No, you have to watch this.
16:59 Well I do... I believe that time is a gift.
17:03 It's... the most precious gift that we have... is our time.
17:08 So how do you manage your time, like... if...
17:11 do you write a schedule out, do you... what do you do?
17:15 I do have lists... and I make my list and I prioritize
17:19 after I make a list I do prioritize it
17:23 and one of the most helpful books that I ever read
17:28 was given to me by the President of Southwest Region,
17:33 Elder Robert... who... we were pastoring...
17:34 it's called: The Magic of Thinking Big
17:36 and I don't know if you've ever seen it... the book...
17:40 but I read it two or three times
17:41 and it... it... it helped me to do things,
17:45 you know, it showed that you can...
17:48 you can think small...
17:50 it takes as much time to do small projects
17:53 as it does to do big projects, to really think outside the box,
17:58 and think big... I don't know if the book is still around.
18:01 Yvonne: What's the name of it again?
18:02 "The Magic of Thinking Big"
18:04 and I read it through for a while or every year
18:09 and I didn't do everything in it like it said,
18:13 "Go first class when you fly"
18:14 I rarely go first class
18:17 but that's what puts you in that frame of thinking big
18:20 but most of the principles I really believed in
18:25 and I believe in time management.
18:26 When you were at Oakwood, I want to go back for a minute
18:30 because you got involved in... this was during the '60s,
18:34 right... and you got involved in
18:36 that whole Civil Rights Movement.
18:38 Let's talk about the environment in Huntsville in the '60s.
18:43 I remember it pretty well but I'd like to know
18:46 what your thoughts are
18:48 and that situation that you mentioned in your book,
18:51 I'd like to talk about that too.
18:53 Well, you know, I came from Philadelphia
18:56 and there may have been racism you know, in the north,
18:59 but it was not overt so when I came to Oakwood,
19:04 the first time we came to Oakwood,
19:05 this was the first time I ever saw signs that said,
19:08 "Colored only" you know, near the water fountain,
19:12 and the first time I ever would go into a restaurant
19:16 and be refused to be served.
19:17 Now, my wife's father was very fair skinned,
19:20 he could pass for white, he would go in
19:22 and when he came down...
19:23 and purchased food for the family, you know,
19:26 but we as students,
19:29 we couldn't go into any of the places there.
19:32 I remember going to the sister church,
19:35 the Central Seventh-day Adventist Church
19:39 in Huntsville, Alabama, which was a white church
19:41 and we heard that a choir was coming from Southern...
19:46 what's the one in Tennessee? Southern Adventist College
19:50 so we said, "Let's go over and hear them"
19:54 and so we went over and sat right in the front,
19:58 we wanted to hear the choir
19:59 and I remember the man coming out and saying,
20:02 "Will the boys from Oakwood go to the back of the auditorium
20:07 or go up in the balcony
20:08 and the program will not continue until you do this"
20:10 and so, that's what we did,
20:12 we got up, little bit shocked, you know,
20:14 but that's the first time, actually,
20:17 I'd ever been in an Adventist church
20:19 and asked to go to the back or go up into the balcony.
20:23 But we did and we stayed there, so, a little bit later on
20:27 in 1962 as I mentioned,
20:29 Martin Luther King came there, we had the biggest gym in...
20:35 in all of Huntsville,
20:37 he came and gave his "I have a dream" speech,
20:39 and then we studied the Sabbath School Lesson
20:42 on the brotherhood of mankind. Yvonne: Hmmm...
20:44 Thirteen lessons in the Sabbath School
20:47 talking about how Christ came to save man
20:51 and how we're all related so somebody said,
20:54 I think it was your father, Benito Hodge,
20:56 he was there, and he said, "Let's go over... "
21:00 all right... Henry Wright, Willy Lee and myself,
21:04 your father and somebody else.
21:06 Was Victor Brooks there?
21:08 Yeah, but I don't think he was there,
21:09 somebody said, "Let's go over to the Central
21:11 Church and see how they're taking these lessons. "
21:13 So we went over, on Sabbath, Sabbath School,
21:17 each one went to a different class,
21:19 I went to one class... your father went to another class,
21:21 and Henry Wright and Willy Lee... as I said...
21:23 Ron Lindsey... that's the other person.
21:25 Yvonne: Ah...
21:26 And so we went to... went in and...
21:29 we were in the class maybe five or six minutes or so
21:31 and then... a lady came and tapped me on the shoulder
21:34 I said, "Yes,"
21:37 she said, "Can we see you in the Pastor's Study?"
21:38 when I got to the Pastor's Study... there was your father,
21:42 there was... all the other fellows were there
21:45 and the lady said, "I'm the wife of the pastor,
21:48 he's not here today but
21:49 we want to tell you that you can't be in this church today,
21:53 this is not your church,
21:54 you have to go to the First Church
21:57 on the other side of town. "
21:59 And I remember, we all started arguing,
22:02 "We're studying the brotherhood of mankind,"
22:05 the man who was there from the Union, he says,
22:08 "Well, you're not going to be here today"
22:11 and he says, "When you get as old as I am...
22:14 you'll understand that some things
22:16 that you young people are doing... "
22:18 your father was there... he pointed to his bald head
22:21 he says... he says... "I'm as old as you are... "
22:24 he said, "and what do you mean 'when I get as old as you are?'"
22:27 and he said, "Well, fine... "
22:29 he got exasperated, he said,
22:30 that if you don't leave right now,
22:31 we're going to call the police.
22:33 Yvonne: Hmmm... Dr. Williams: So, we left...
22:34 and I still remember one of the men of that church
22:38 coming out crying,
22:42 he actually had tears running down his face...
22:44 he had a little baby in his arm
22:45 and as he came out, the tears were dropping down
22:48 and he says, "Please forgive us,
22:49 please forgive us, we're not all like that here,"
22:52 he says, "some of us have not learned"
22:54 he says, "we're not all like that"
22:56 and as we drove away, that's what he was...
23:00 standing there crying... I remember the tears coming down
23:02 and maybe 25 to 30 years later,
23:06 my nephew, Dean Calhoun, was a member of that church
23:10 and he invited me to speak there
23:11 so certainly the times have changed.
23:13 Yvonne: Yes... Dr. Williams: Times have changed
23:16 Jason: That's crazy... I can't imagine being so...
23:19 I can't be in a church or drink from this water fountain
23:23 because I'm black, that's nuts... I mean...
23:26 Dr. Williams: Go back to the '60s.
23:28 Well, we still have racism today it's just institutionalized
23:31 as opposed to being just overt but, I mean,
23:35 clearly they didn't have an understanding of Jesus
23:38 because Jesus loved everybody. Dr. Williams: He did...
23:40 So, they obviously weren't studying their Bibles very well.
23:44 And the Sabbath School Lesson
23:45 was on the Brotherhood of Mankind...
23:47 for a whole quarter they were studying those lessons
23:51 and it didn't seem to make much difference
23:53 but I thank God for that one man who came out there.
23:57 That made a difference probably in your spirit
24:00 because you saw that not everybody was feeling that way
24:04 but it so... I remember during that time,
24:08 I was about... I was about ten or eleven and
24:11 I remember the different fountains
24:14 and I... but I never went to the church,
24:18 but my dad did obviously... he went to the church in town
24:21 but I never did so that's...
24:23 that was a really intense period during that time.
24:27 When we got back to the campus, the kids were going,
24:30 "You should have stayed there and let them arrest you
24:33 and let it get in the papers"
24:37 we said, "Well, we didn't want to make
24:39 anything bad out of it" you know...
24:42 Yeah, yeah, so after you left there when you went
24:45 and you went to Andrews, did you encounter racism there
24:49 or was there any...
24:51 No, I don't remember any racism, that's of course Michigan
24:57 and we were in Huntsville before but I don't recall
25:04 any racism ever after that you know... over racism.
25:10 Hmmm... hmmm... hmmm... hmmm... thankfully we don't encounter
25:16 that kind of thing now and that's a blessing
25:18 but I know that during those times
25:20 it was an intense time.
25:22 So, after you left Oakwood, you went to Pine Forge
25:26 and then you went to Andrews, what got you on the health path,
25:31 because you were doing religion,
25:33 how did you get on the health path?
25:35 Oh, as I said, we went to the Congo,
25:37 we spent five years in the Congo,
25:38 Lubumbashi and then Kinshasa, we came back,
25:43 I went to the Indiana University and got my Doctorate there
25:45 and then I went into the
25:48 Communications Department for five years,
25:52 and we went back to Africa, we went to Burundi and Rwanda
25:57 and then we came back... and...
25:59 What's it like being a missionary?
26:01 Well, I actually enjoyed it very much
26:03 I'm not a 100 percent sure that my wife was enthusiastic.
26:08 What were the living conditions like?
26:11 Well, the living conditions were pretty good
26:14 and there was a little bit of racism there
26:17 and we didn't... she didn't like the way
26:21 many of the missionaries treated the Africans.
26:25 Yvonne: Hmmm... that's interesting...
26:28 Yeah, some of them very paternalistic and demeaning
26:32 but many of them were not, you know
26:36 and I... I was young then so I was pushing...
26:39 I was the President of the Central African Union
26:43 it was Rwanda and Burundi, we had seven fields
26:45 and I put in the African Presidents...
26:47 and I called a man over to help me to...
26:50 who I knew, you know, and we just clashed,
26:54 I couldn't believe it, I knew him
26:56 and I thought we grew up together
26:57 he's black and we just... he was... he didn't see pushing
27:03 he said, "They're not ready, everybody is not ready"
27:05 so I put in Dr. Ofuku at Mugonero Hospital,
27:08 and I put in another doctor at Gateway,
27:11 I put in all the presidents and so... maybe kind of...
27:15 I think I was pushing too fast and so when I came back
27:20 for furlough, my wife said, she says, "I'm not going...
27:26 I don't want to go back to Africa"
27:27 so, she didn't go back, I actually had to go back
27:31 and pack up and that was the end of the missionary career,
27:36 I would have gone on but she... she was just...
27:39 just had pretty much... enough of it.
27:41 Why didn't she want to go back?
27:42 Dr. Williams: Why didn't she? Yvonne: Hmmm... hmmm...
27:44 Well, like I said, I didn't get along and
27:47 we didn't get along
27:48 with the other couple that we brought over
27:51 and the kids were in Maxwell Academy in Kenya
27:56 and when we came by to... on our way home
28:00 Darnella, the one that you saw today,
28:04 she was having difficulties in school
28:07 and my wife said,
28:09 that she has to be there in that school the next year because
28:11 the teacher taught... maybe... multiple grades...
28:14 and she didn't want that to happen.
28:16 Elder Battle did everything he could, you know,
28:18 he said, "Well, we'll bring the kids home
28:21 and we'll have them go to live with your... her mom... "
28:23 my wife's mom, Margaret's mother
28:24 and... but she just made up her mind... she wasn't going...
28:27 that's the first time I saw her put her foot down
28:29 on something I wanted to do
28:31 but she was not going back
28:33 and Elder Battle says,
28:35 "You left the General Conference... "
28:37 he says, "so, we want you to go back to the General Conference"
28:39 so I... this is when I wrote the first book
28:41 there's... I was... this was 1982,
28:47 we came back in 1982 and for almost nine months or so
28:50 we didn't have a job but I'd go, you know,
28:53 giving mission stories and stuff and... but I...
28:56 and then I started my first book
28:58 and by then I had a call to go into the...
29:03 they called it the Health and Temperance Department
29:06 at that time and I didn't have any background
29:09 in Health and Temperance, as a matter of fact,
29:12 I wasn't too healthy... I don't believe
29:16 but I could... the Department... it saved my life
29:19 because I changed my lifestyle,
29:20 I wasn't a vegetarian but, you know, when I came in...
29:23 I started reading Ellen White's books, Ministry of Healing,
29:27 boy! when I got into that chapter about vegetarianism,
29:30 flesh foods... oh!
29:32 I said, "I can't be in the Department and not lead"
29:36 so, I prayed and prayed and prayed
29:39 and I became a vegetarian in 1983,
29:41 I've been an Adventist all my life
29:43 but that was the first time I became a vegetarian.
29:45 I wasn't all that active but I saw...
29:48 read that chapter about being active,
29:51 and I started running, I ran in 1987,
29:54 I got enough behind me to run the Marine Corp Marathon.
29:57 So, it actually... and then they sent me to...
30:02 to Loma Linda to get my Master's in public health.
30:06 Back then you could do... they had an off-campus program
30:11 so I could be at home and
30:13 I went to Loma Linda from time to time
30:18 so, it changed my life.
30:21 I was a... I felt like a dummy, really, in the Department
30:24 before... in the other Departments I felt competent
30:27 but here we had medical doctors and some men had medical...
30:32 MD, Ph. D. and I didn't really know too much about it
30:38 but I prayed and as I said, it changed my life.
30:41 It must have been a calling because the Lord knew
30:45 that you needed to be there
30:47 because you didn't have any experience with that...
30:48 Dr. Williams: No experience...
30:49 So the fact that they put you in there,
30:51 that's really interesting.
30:52 And from 1983 until I retired in 2010,
30:55 that's what I did, health... health and temperance.
30:59 I traveled all over the world doing "Stop Smoking" programs
31:03 I did "Stop Smoking" programs in Turkey and Kuwait
31:06 and Jordan and Egypt and all over the Country here,
31:09 I did stuff for people... but it sure wasn't...
31:12 oh my! when I left Oakwood, that was not my agenda.
31:15 Now, when you were a missionary,
31:18 what were some of the things that you saw in those countries,
31:23 the way the people lived, the way they perceived life,
31:27 how different is that from the way we are here?
31:30 Well, poverty was... that was really a difficult thing...
31:39 poverty, they told us at one time
31:43 that every time you baptized a member,
31:46 it was a liability because you know...
31:47 here you baptize somebody, they pay tithe and everything...
31:50 but when you baptize somebody there,
31:51 you have to take care of them,
31:53 it was a liability, you know.
31:54 They didn't discourage you from baptizing...
31:58 So you got to think... you got to preach, you know,
32:01 but it was a difficult thing.
32:03 The level of education... there was a great disparity
32:08 of getting qualified workers,
32:10 it broke your heart to... to... to know that
32:18 we didn't have as many qualified teachers and preachers,
32:20 we would send some to America and some to Europe
32:25 and I'm so thankful today that
32:26 God has made provision to where now...
32:28 on African soil, we have, maybe, six universities now, I think,
32:34 maybe more, bona fide universities
32:38 and graduating BA students and Ph. D. students
32:42 and you know, God has really...
32:44 the time that we... we came back in 1982
32:46 it's just unbelievable
32:48 what has happened on the African Continent.
32:50 You know, Dr. Baker, just now,
32:53 went to be the President of University of Africa
32:57 there in Kenya... well that's a beautiful university
33:00 but they have one in... another one in Baraton
33:02 they have... I think there are seven,
33:05 there may be eight universities on the continent of Africa.
33:08 So the standard of education,
33:10 once you start raising that standard of education,
33:13 then, things begin to happen.
33:15 Yvonne: Absolutely.
33:16 And now I think all the Leaders of Africa
33:19 are... all the conferences... all the missions...
33:24 all the divisions are led by financial leadership
33:29 so, God has blessed.
33:32 You know, one of the things that really gripes me about media
33:36 is that... all you see when you see programs about Africa
33:41 is the jungle, I never see cities,
33:45 I never see civilization, you always see primitive folks
33:52 in Africa, and I think, you know,
33:55 it just kind of makes me crazy because I know...
33:58 I know that originally education came out of Africa,
34:02 Egypt was a huge mecca for information
34:06 in fact, in Medicine and Mathematics and all that,
34:08 the seat of civilization was in Egypt
34:12 so, I... I... it's like... when I see on television
34:16 that all we show is the jungle, that just makes me think...
34:21 Dr. Williams: Some beautiful cities in Africa.
34:22 Yvonne: We never see them.
34:24 We lived in Lubumbashi, Kinshasa,
34:26 that's a gorgeous, gorgeous city
34:29 in Rwanda... Kigali...
34:33 when we were there, Kigali wasn't a great city,
34:37 but since 1994, they had all of those...
34:40 you know, the Tutsi and the Hutu problems,
34:43 they have come back now
34:46 and built the southern... it's a beautiful...
34:48 we have a beautiful university in Kigali now.
34:50 We have universities...
34:52 makes you poke out your chest now...
34:54 and the nationals... they speak, three and four and five
35:00 and six different languages, you know,
35:02 Americans are... you know, we speak one language
35:05 but they know their national language,
35:08 they know English, they know French,
35:11 they know the different tribal languages,
35:15 they're very... very brilliant people.
35:16 You know a couple of languages too, what languages do you know?
35:20 Well, I did learn French and Swahili... really good,
35:25 and I learned a little... a few others but those two I learned.
35:27 Yvonne: Say something in Swahili.
35:29 Jason: See, I was going to ask that question.
35:31 Dr. Williams: Ahhh... say something in Swahili?
35:33 Now that you're asking me, I can't even think,
35:36 you have to tell me what you want me to say.
35:40 Yvonne: I live in America.
35:42 Dr. Williams: Maisha katika America
35:46 Yvonne: Maisha katik...?
35:47 Dr. Williams: katika America... Yvonne: Maisha Katika...
35:50 Dr. Williams: America... yeah... Yvonne: Okay.
35:52 in the Lubumbashi and in Kinshasa
35:58 in Kinshasa they spoke more Lingala,
36:00 we didn't speak what they called really good Swahili,
36:03 they called it Swahili Mbaya...
36:07 it was kind of a... they mixed Swahili with French
36:11 you'd have to go to Tanzania...
36:13 Tanzania is where they spoke really good Swahili
36:18 but I preached in it when I was there
36:21 Nilihubiri katika Swahili
36:24 I spoke... I preached in it when I was there,
36:27 but that was 19... I came back in 1982...
36:31 How do you say, "God bless you" in Swahili?
36:35 Mungu... I don't know... I don't remember anymore...
36:41 How long did it take you to learn it?
36:44 As I said, we were there for eight years
36:46 and Mungu... oh! wow!
36:51 and I spoke more French than I did Swahili...
36:54 and I don't... I haven't spoken a lot of Swahili since I left
36:59 but I have spoken French
37:02 so I've kind of kept up with French
37:04 and we were sent to Neuch√Ętel, Switzerland to learn French,
37:09 we spent six months in Switzerland
37:12 to learn French, so...
37:13 And how long did it take for you to learn Swahili?
37:16 Swahili was kind of... "after thing"
37:20 you know, we do it after work,
37:22 we had classes after work,
37:23 one of the pastors came and taught us Swahili
37:28 so I never did have the depth
37:31 of Swahili training that I had in French
37:35 but my reading still is good. Jason: Okay.
37:38 I just... I just haven't used it,
37:40 you kind of caught me by surprise...
37:43 I'm just thinking, Mungu...
37:46 It will come to you probably before we end.
37:49 Yvonne: It will come back. Dr. Williams: Oh! I tell you...
37:53 Let's talk about your wife because she became ill,
37:57 what happened?
37:59 Well, as I say,
38:01 we were married a long time
38:06 before we started noticing anything was wrong
38:10 and I guess, around maybe 1995ish...
38:17 so, we had been married maybe 30... 35 years or so,
38:22 she started stumbling a little bit,
38:25 we'd be walking and she'd stumble,
38:28 we'd go to get... have a prayer... you know...
38:33 everybody on Friday evening, you open and close the Sabbath,
38:36 open the Sabbath or Sabbath
38:38 you close... Sabbath evening,
38:39 we'd kneel down and she couldn't get up...
38:42 somebody had to help her up
38:46 and the more time went on,
38:50 she would stumble more, and then she started falling,
38:56 not only stumbling... but she'd fall,
38:58 and every time she fell, usually
39:00 she'd hit her head, oh... she'd fall...
39:04 we'd be walking in the street, you know, walking with her,
39:07 maybe even holding her hand
39:08 and she'd stumble and kind of like pull you down,
39:12 we started saying,
39:14 "Well, there must be something wrong"
39:15 and so I took her to a couple of doctors and...
39:19 and nobody knew exactly what was wrong and
39:23 they did, one of the pastors... one of my friends...
39:28 he said, "When we go in to Toronto
39:29 to have the General Conference Session there in Toronto...
39:32 you need to take her to a doctor there
39:33 because... the Canadian doctors...
39:35 they see people who come in from traveling overseas
39:39 and worked in Africa" and... so we did...
39:41 In 2000, I took her in to... I think it was Queen's Hospital,
39:47 I don't remember the name of the Hospital,
39:48 but they examined her,
39:49 they gave her a really good examination
39:52 maybe... two or three hours... and it was a team...
39:56 and they said,
39:57 "Well, it's nothing wrong with her nerves...
39:59 we think it's her muscles and if we had to do anything,
40:04 we would say, it's Muscular Dystrophy"
40:06 and so at least we had some idea of what was happening.
40:11 What's the difference between Muscular Dystrophy and MS...
40:16 Multiple Sclerosis?
40:18 Well, one... MS, I understand is the sheaths of the nerves...
40:23 it produces the same thing where people can't move and so forth
40:29 but Muscular Dystrophy is actual nerves that...
40:33 and there are five or six or seven different kinds
40:37 you know, Lou Gehrig's Disease, I understand,
40:39 is a form of muscular... there's a Duchenne...
40:42 we never did find out exactly what she has
40:45 but her younger brother, Jimmy,
40:47 he had Muscular Dystrophy, he just had it later
40:51 and he actually died last... last... two years ago
40:56 and he was younger,
40:57 Pearl... is in a hospital with Muscular Dystrophy.
41:02 Jason: Is it hereditary?
41:03 Apparently, familial, yeah, but Margaret kept falling
41:09 and finally we decided that
41:11 we're going to make her wear a helmet
41:13 because, like I said, every time she fell,
41:15 she didn't have enough strength
41:17 to stop her from hitting her head
41:21 and pretty soon it got to be...
41:24 to the point where she had to have a walker
41:29 and maybe the last... I retired in 2010
41:34 and I thought we would spend some of those miles
41:38 and travel all over the world,
41:39 those airline miles that I had been accumulating
41:41 and that's when she started to really...
41:45 that's the point where she pretty much couldn't do
41:48 too much by herself, you know,
41:50 we would put her in a wheelchair and take her places,
41:53 we took her to Oakwood for our 50th anniversary
41:57 in 19... in 2012...
42:00 that was our 50th anniversary from when we graduated
42:05 but she was in a wheelchair and then... maybe 2013...
42:09 it got worse... and the last...
42:13 maybe a year and a half of her life,
42:15 she was confined to her bed
42:17 and that was kind of a rough... you know...
42:22 to see your bride of so many years...
42:25 not able to get up and get out and my daughter moved in with me
42:31 and we got a... we got a ceiling lift
42:37 because it was difficult,
42:38 she couldn't get up to bathe herself,
42:40 she couldn't get up to go to the bathroom,
42:43 we took her outside every day, we loved her right to the end...
42:48 we took her... and when we had the memorial service,
42:51 I was surprised at how many people...
42:53 we lived in a Over-55 Community, people that I didn't even know,
42:57 they said, "Well, we just saw her... "
42:59 and we took her outside everyday,
43:02 maybe for two hours... three hours...
43:04 I bought flowers for her every week,
43:07 we had people over, you know, and maybe the last...
43:15 last six or seven months,
43:18 they were difficult months for her
43:19 and I just kind of... it was just difficult.
43:26 You know... that's... that's real love... when you...
43:31 you made the commitment before God
43:35 and you took care of her to the end...
43:38 you continued to... she was still your bride...
43:41 you continued to buy her flowers,
43:43 continued to...
43:45 And she got sweeter and sweeter,
43:46 you know, she could be fiery sometimes,
43:48 she had Texas fire in her... she... she would say...
43:53 Sabbath especially, "Let's call Clinton. "
43:55 I said, "My brother, Clinton?" because she...
43:57 she clashed head with Clinton,
43:59 she said, "No, I want to talk to Clinton"
44:01 "Okay... okay... " she'd say, "Let's call Richard"
44:04 I'd say, "My brother Richard?" she'd say, "Yeah. "
44:05 But she got sweet and sweet and sweet.
44:10 Oh... we praise the Lord for husbands like you,
44:15 because...
44:16 Actually, she went so fast... we took her...
44:17 I would... we left Thursday, we took her into a...
44:20 to get her flu shot and I was telling the doctor,
44:23 I said, "This hasn't been a good week for my wife,"
44:25 I said, "She... she's had a little pain... "
44:31 because that Monday night, she coughed a lot and
44:34 Tuesday night, she just... she had a lot of pain,
44:38 and she didn't usually have pain...
44:40 that was one of the things we were thankful for,
44:41 I said, "Wednesday night she didn't sleep well... "
44:43 he says, "You'd better take her over to the hospital"
44:45 and he said, "because I don't have... "
44:47 he said, they needed to take X-rays and so...
44:51 I wheeled her in the wheelchair to the hospital
44:54 which was about three blocks away,
44:55 and she never... she never came home...
45:00 we took her there and... they started doing...
45:03 they said she had a stone in her kidney
45:05 and she had fluid in her lungs and her sodium...
45:08 I never heard that before... her sodium was low,
45:12 they said, "We have to... "
45:13 so they admitted her that Thursday night
45:16 and then they sent her to Johns Hopkins,
45:19 this was the Laurel Hospital,
45:21 but they sent her to Johns Hopkins
45:22 and at first they were trying to bring up her sodium,
45:28 so that Thursday and Friday and Sabbath
45:30 and Sunday and... something happened on...
45:33 so, I went in on Monday,
45:35 I couldn't believe it was my wife,
45:39 they had tubes all in her... they said that that night,
45:43 she had some kind of... like a... an attack...
45:47 and so, when I went in on Monday,
45:52 I called Darnell, I said, "Darnell... "
45:54 I said, "I'm down in the chapel" because I just...
45:58 I couldn't be there, I just went down in the chapel,
46:02 and there were some Muslims there,
46:04 I said... as one was praying,
46:06 I said, "Do you pray for people... other people?"
46:09 I said, "Would you pray for my wife?"
46:10 he never answered me,
46:12 I said it again, I said,
46:13 "Sir... " I said, "My wife is...
46:15 I said, "could you pray for my wife?"
46:17 so, he didn't answer me so, another one came in,
46:22 and I mentioned it to him, he had...
46:23 and he says, "Sure, I'll pray for you"
46:25 and then, by then, the other man he said, "I was praying,
46:28 and I couldn't answer you while I was praying... "
46:29 he said, "I did pray for your wife"
46:31 Yvonne: Oh, okay...
46:32 And so, she... she was almost unconscious
46:36 from then on... she passed on the Sabbath
46:41 and they anointed her, I think it was, Tuesday,
46:45 they anointed her, they came over...
46:46 the pastors came and they anointed her.
46:48 Was she able to speak or anything?
46:51 No, that Sabbath morning, they mentioned that...
46:55 they said, "Now, are you good with us taking her off... "
46:59 she was on a respirator and they said,
47:01 "We have to tell you that...
47:03 she'll may not do well if we take her off"
47:05 we said, "Yes, we're prepared," my daughter's a Physician,
47:07 she flew in that Sabbath and as I said,
47:10 Friday... all that... Sunday, Monday, Tuesday...
47:12 she's kind of like... comatose,
47:13 when my daughter, Deitrice came there,
47:16 she was sitting up,
47:17 because we told her... we told her,
47:19 "Deitrice's coming tomorrow" and we couldn't believe it,
47:23 her eyes were open, they put her hands...
47:25 some gloves on her hands because she was pulling things out
47:28 and she was sitting up,
47:30 and her hands were moving up and down
47:32 and backwards and forward and...
47:34 and we... we talked with her for about an hour
47:37 and then they...
47:39 after they had taken her off the respirator
47:40 and then she just put her head back,
47:45 so, that's... is still... November 7...
47:50 November 7... Yvonne: What year?
47:52 Dr. Williams: Last year... Yvonne: Oh...
47:53 November 7... so it's been about six... six... seven months maybe
47:59 six months... seven... something like that...
48:00 Yvonne: Yeah.
48:01 So we were trying to get... my daughter lives with me
48:06 so, that's... I think our roles are reversed now...
48:10 she's become... because she tells me what to do.
48:13 Yvonne: You're right... Laughter...
48:15 I used to tell her but now she tells me what to do.
48:18 Like he tells me what to do... he tries to tell me too...
48:22 Well, before we end... and our time has gone by so quickly
48:26 Dr. Williams: Yeah, we talked about me too much.
48:29 No, no, no, no,
48:30 we thank you for sharing and being so transparent
48:34 because surely there are some others
48:37 who are going through that
48:38 and being a caregiver is so difficult.
48:42 I mean, that is hard work, so we thank you
48:45 and we recognize how difficult that has to be
48:49 and we thank God for the resurrection.
48:52 One of the things that I did, I had to be close to my wife,
48:57 so I did writing... you know, I had my table there,
49:02 I was there with her most of the time,
49:04 and I'd sit there... and then that's how I...
49:06 and this was the book...
49:08 Perfect segue into this because...
49:09 I was getting ready to ask you about your first book,
49:11 let's talk about that.
49:12 This was the very first book I did,
49:14 "She Fulfilled the Impossible Dream. "
49:15 Yvonne: Let's talk about Dr. Dykes.
49:17 Okay, she was my teacher, Dr. Eva B. Dykes...
49:20 first black Ph. D. in the world
49:23 and it happened to be at Oakwood.
49:26 She taught... she got her Ph. D. in 1921,
49:30 she had already gotten a Master's degree
49:35 from Howard University but when she went to Radcliffe,
49:38 they said, "Oh no... we don't accept...
49:40 that's a black institution, you have to do it again"
49:42 so she had to do another BA, she had to do another MA,
49:45 and then she had to...
49:47 Yvonne: She had to redo all of her academics
49:49 in order to get into Radcliffe?
49:51 Dr. Williams: That's right.
49:53 oh... she had to do them while she was there,
49:55 she had already gotten it in Howard,
49:57 she had done her BA, she had done her MA in Howard,
50:00 but when they accepted her... probationary...
50:04 upon completing her BA and an MA
50:06 and she completed them
50:07 and they accepted her as a doctoral student
50:09 so, this was my first book and this is when I came back
50:13 from... from Africa,
50:14 "She Fulfilled the Impossible Dream"
50:16 and I really... and I just... they did this story
50:20 in Guide Magazine and so, this was 1985,
50:25 it went out of print and so I just reprinted it
50:27 and I put that Guide Magazine, I really like that...
50:29 I put that in the back.
50:31 Ah nice, you know what's great is, I mean, she is...
50:33 Dr. Williams: Did you have her as a teacher?
50:35 I did... I did... she was my English teacher
50:37 at Oakwood and I loved her. Dr. Williams: She was special.
50:40 she was excellent... She really was...
50:42 Remember the "Audibility" you had to speak,
50:45 she would tell you... I think academics and audibility
50:49 you had to speak, she said, "Students... "
50:53 and she was very proper when she talked,
50:55 "Students... when you speak in my class,
50:58 you have to speak so that everybody can hear you,
51:01 if you speak and nobody hears you,
51:03 what good is that?"
51:05 So she... audibility and academics
51:09 and she started the Aeolians, I believe,
51:11 she was the one that started the Aeolians,
51:12 Yvonne: Oh, the Aeolians, really?
51:14 And her father...
51:15 her father left her when she was a...
51:17 so she didn't grow up with her father,
51:20 but her uncle, Dr. James Howard,
51:23 who was a medical doctor, which back then...
51:27 was quite something, and so... he was a
51:31 and I actually found his picture... Dr. James Howard,
51:34 he went over to Ethiopia
51:37 to start a girls' school over there,
51:40 and I said, "Well, if he was a missionary"
51:42 I went over this... I went to the Customs Department
51:46 and found this picture, Dr. Howard
51:48 and the next book I did... can we go...
51:50 we still have time for that? Yvonne: Yes, yeah, yeah.
51:53 The next book I did was called "Highly Committed"
51:55 the captivating story of the Wilson family,
51:58 now this is: Elder Ted Wilson,
52:00 President of the General Conference...
52:03 and his father was a President,
52:08 this was the only family in our church history
52:11 where the father and the son were President
52:13 of the General Conference
52:15 and then his grandfather,
52:16 his name is Nathaniel C. Wilson,
52:20 Nathaniel Carter Wilson and his was Neal Clayton Wilson
52:24 and his is actually... Norman Clare
52:26 but they called him... he had his name changed
52:28 to Ted Wilson
52:30 and... officially changed...
52:32 and... but his father was President of four conferences,
52:36 four divisions and four unions, there's nobody else that...
52:40 and almost became a General Conference President
52:42 and his great-grandfather
52:43 joined the church under Ellen G. White...
52:46 Ellen G. White...
52:47 Jason: How long did it take you to write these books?
52:49 Ah, maybe... to do the research...
52:51 three years to do the research
52:53 and it's true so you have to validate the facts
52:59 and interviews...
53:00 I interviewed Ted Wilson and his wife...
53:05 they weren't too happy about writing it.
53:10 Yvonne: Oh!
53:12 She said... they said,
53:14 "We're public figures and we'd... "
53:15 so, she gave me one interview and wouldn't give me anymore.
53:21 He gave me several interviews
53:25 and he actually didn't want me to move forward
53:28 but I told him... I said, "Listen, I worked three years
53:32 on this book... I'm printing it,
53:33 I'm giving you the opportunity to make changes and corrections"
53:37 and you know... so he did... he read it...
53:39 and made some suggestions and I followed it,
53:43 but they were not real happy... and so...
53:48 Okay, hopefully that's changed when he did read the book.
53:49 Dr. Williams: But he did buy eight of them.
53:51 Oh, he bought eight... so you know...
53:52 I go to a book signing there and he bought...
53:57 so... he likes it... his family, you know,
54:01 the information in there... he learned about himself.
54:04 Jason: Money talks, he bought them, so,
54:07 praise the Lord.
54:08 For Christmas... and this was my...
54:10 my next in the last book,
54:11 I have one that's being published now,
54:14 and this was on missionaries... black missionaries...
54:17 Yvonne: And you know, we don't see a lot of that.
54:20 Why do you think we don't see a lot more black missionaries?
54:24 We see a lot of white missionaries
54:26 but not a lot of black missionaries.
54:27 We've had a good history.
54:29 You know, it's never come out...
54:31 again... it's kind of like Africa...
54:34 you know, we only see white missionaries.
54:37 We had this lady here...
54:39 Van Der Berg... she was killed in Africa...
54:45 she was... they were coming home...
54:48 on the roadside... you know a lot of times
54:50 the cars are parked on the road and
54:53 big vans are parked on the road
54:56 and went and turned the lights out and so forth
54:59 and they did that... and they ran into this...
55:02 she was killed instantly, so she was killed in Africa,
55:05 you know Dr. Elder Danny Davis,
55:07 missionary in the Youth Department,
55:10 this was our first black missionary
55:13 the very first black missionary went to Jamaica in 1892...
55:19 and most people don't think that in 1892...
55:23 you know, today Jamaica is kind of like a tourist resort,
55:25 in 1892... it was a... it was a... it was a...
55:28 it was a... a challenging... it was a challenge...
55:31 Yvonne: Hmmm... I would think so, 1892...
55:36 Dr. Williams: 1892... that's when he went over
55:37 Yvonne: Wow!
55:38 Dr. Williams: and then he went to Panama
55:40 and different places and actually what happened is
55:45 Carol Hammond wrote the first volume
55:47 and I'm in the first volume, she wrote a book about 49 people
55:51 and in there... she had a list of maybe...
55:57 a 100 or so different missionaries
55:59 and so... I looked at the list
56:00 and she called in, I said,
56:02 "What... who is going to write about these other...?"
56:05 So, that was my challenge too, to take the list
56:09 and follow up on them... and these were very difficult,
56:15 like I mentioned... James Patterson...
56:19 there had been nothing published on him before...
56:22 I had to find his picture at the passport office
56:26 and of course a lot of people knew Annaniah...
56:30 Yvonne: Oh yes, yes, yes and all of these are stories
56:33 about the different missionaries, their lives,
56:36 what they encountered... how, tell us briefly,
56:39 how people can get these books?
56:41 I don't have a website, I should,
56:43 but these two are from: www. teachservices. com
56:47 Yvonne: Oh okay, so they can just go to teachservices
56:49 teachservices. com
56:51 and this one... they have to e-mail me.
56:54 mdwilliams39@gmail. com
56:59 Yvonne: mdwilliams39@gmail. com
57:02 it... as I said... it was published in 1985
57:08 and I think they did the second printing in maybe 1990
57:11 and then it kind of...
57:13 and I just re-printed it.
57:15 Well, that's wonderful, we thank you so much...
57:17 Dr. Williams: It's been my joy. it's been my joy.
57:19 I've talked... my throat is gone...
57:22 We'll give you some water in just a second...
57:25 Well, we've reached the end of another program,
57:28 thank you so much for joining us,
57:29 join us next time and remember,
57:31 it just wouldn't be the same without you.


Revised 2016-06-15