Participants: Yvonne Lewis (Host), Jason Bradley (Host), Dr. DeWitt Stanton Williams
Series Code: UBR
Program Code: UBR000189A
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00:01 Stay tuned to meet a man
00:02 whose middle names are: Dedication and Service. 00:05 My name is Yvonne Lewis 00:06 and I'm Jason Bradley 00:08 and you're watching Urban Report. 00:34 Hello and welcome to Urban Report. 00:36 Our guest today is Dr. DeWitt Williams. 00:39 He is the author of several books 00:41 and has served as President of the Central Africa Union 00:44 and was the former Director of Health Ministries 00:47 for the North American Division of Seventh-day Adventists. 00:50 Welcome to Urban Report Dr. Williams. 00:53 Good to be here Dr. Lewis. 00:55 It is so good to have you, you know, 00:57 I have known you and your family for years 01:01 because when my family moved to Oakwood 01:06 in Huntsville, Alabama, 01:07 my dad went as an older student, 01:10 he went back to school, so he was older than you 01:12 but you were there when he was there 01:14 and my sister and I lived there as children 01:17 and I remember you, 01:18 I remember when you were dating your lovely wife, Margaret, 01:21 I remember her sister, so... we kind of go back a ways. 01:26 DeWitt: That's a long time. Yvonne: Yes. 01:27 DeWitt: More than 50 years. 01:29 Yvonne: Oh my goodness, you don't have to tell that! 01:32 You don't have to tell that... but it is really... 01:36 it has been a long time 01:38 and you've had such an interesting journey 01:41 so I really wanted our Viewers to become familiar with you 01:45 and your work and... just the path that God has... 01:49 the paths... because you've done so many different things, 01:53 all though... on one path... leading to the Lord. 01:57 So, let's talk about your journey a bit, 01:59 where were you born and raised? 02:01 I was born in Philadelphia... South Philadelphia... 02:04 kind of a poor family, there were six siblings 02:11 and my older sisters, Sophia and Morgan and then me 02:15 and Richard... excuse me... Clinton, Richard and Alyssa 02:19 and my mother and father and my grandmother... 02:22 we all lived in the same house and... as a matter of fact... 02:25 my father was renting a place across the street 02:28 and he saw that this place across the street 02:31 was empty so he just went in... 02:33 moved into this house that was unoccupied 02:36 and we lived in there maybe for ten years or so, 02:40 he just took it over and nobody... 02:43 Yvonne: Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait... 02:45 it was abandoned... it was abandoned. 02:48 So, he just... went over there 02:50 and you lived there for ten years and nobody... 02:53 Yeah, we fixed it up, there was no bathroom inside, 02:56 it was an outhouse, he moved the bathroom inside 02:59 and put in heating, painted and everything 03:01 and made it a nice home. 03:03 So we lived there for many years. 03:05 So there was no... you didn't have to pay rent 03:07 or anything, you just went and occupied... 03:09 we're not recommending that to anybody right now 03:12 it's just... maybe you could have done it then... 03:15 but he just went and occupied? 03:18 Occupied... because it was abandoned 03:19 and people said, "This place has been abandoned 03:22 for about two or three years" 03:23 and it kept getting worse and when he got it all fixed up 03:26 apparently the owners... people told the owners... 03:28 "It looks good now" and they came back and took it, 03:30 so we had to move out. 03:32 Oh, so they waited for you to fix it up 03:34 and literally get back home, 03:35 now what about electricity though... what... I mean... 03:38 I don't... I think he worked... 03:41 I don't really know it was so long ago 03:42 he worked out some kind of way where 03:44 electricity was turned on and he paid for it. 03:46 and... but I remember that as our first home... 03:50 living there... then we moved to North Philadelphia, 03:54 and then we moved to Germantown 03:55 and finally, my father didn't want us to live in the city, 03:58 so we finally moved out to Glenside 04:00 which is a suburb of Philadelphia 04:02 and we built the house. 04:04 He had four boys so we were his special team. 04:07 He used us... when we got about the age of 13 or 14... 04:12 and he saw little muscles coming, you know, 04:15 and we were his team, we did painting, 04:18 and paper hanging and everything. 04:20 We built the house that we moved into. 04:21 Wow! so... in our Society today, 04:26 there is such a crisis with absentee fathers, 04:31 how did having your father in your home impact your life? 04:35 Well, you know, I really admired my father. 04:39 I... I... he was my model... 04:43 he was a very religious man, he wanted to be a minister 04:48 and he had no... he had a brother 04:52 but his brother died early on so we never knew his brother, 04:54 my mother had no brothers and sisters 04:56 so we didn't have any relatives so much to speak about 05:01 but he was a good model, he prayed for us, 05:06 he had little talks with us, he taught us how to work, 05:10 I knew how to work, 05:12 he came to school and actually got us from school, 05:16 he had a truck called, 05:17 Integrity Building and Construction Company 05:20 and we changed from our school clothes 05:22 into our work clothes and go to work, 05:25 and to be truthful, 05:27 I didn't think I was going to go to college 05:29 because graduation was Tuesday night 05:31 and he took me to graduation 05:34 in the Integrity Building and Construction Company truck 05:38 and that night I found out that I had two scholarships. 05:42 I had a scholarship, back then it was 500 dollars 05:45 which was a lot for me, from the Senior Work Day 05:48 and the Lord is good because I had... 05:50 I wanted to go to college but I knew we didn't have money, 05:52 the Senior Work Day Scholarship, 05:53 the students gave me the 500 dollars 05:55 and some Ladies' Group in Willow Grove... 05:57 they gave me 200 dollars, so I praise the Lord, 06:01 here I was... going to Oakwood which was my dream. 06:04 so, I think the Bible says, 06:07 "The desire of the righteous shall be granted" 06:11 and I'm not saying I was righteous 06:12 but I think my father was 06:14 and he started a number of churches, 06:16 he started the Willow Grove church, 06:18 he started a church in Williamstown, New Jersey. 06:22 Jason: He started the Willow Grove? 06:23 Dr. Williams: Yeah, Jason: Really? 06:25 Yeah... he started... there was a... you know... 06:27 the only church we had at one time was the Ebenezer church 06:30 and that's the church but... 06:32 Jason: Is that church still around? 06:35 I went to Willow Grove a while ago... 06:38 that's where my brother... that's where Val lives 06:40 and I went to church there is that the same... 06:43 I wonder if that's the same one. 06:45 I think so, go and look under the... 06:47 go look... I think... it will even say it in the history 06:50 that the Willow Grove was started... 06:52 he didn't start it all by himself... 06:54 but he and several other people but he loved to preach, 06:59 he loved to teach Sabbath School, 07:00 we would walk to church 07:02 when we lived in South Philadelphia, 07:05 the church was maybe a mile from us, 07:07 we walked... all of us... 07:08 all the children would walk to church 07:10 and we were there... he was the Sabbath School teacher 07:12 I mean, the Sabbath School Superintendent, 07:14 so we had to be there on time. 07:16 Church was our life. 07:17 You know, I'm hearing... what I'm hearing you say is that 07:22 your dad taught you a number of things, 07:24 spirituality... and not... 07:25 this is not to negate what your mom taught you 07:28 but as I listen to you, I'm thinking that 07:31 he implanted certain things in you... a good strong work ethic 07:36 "integrity" was the name of his company 07:39 and so, all of these things are preparing you for service 07:46 preparing you to do what God had for you to do 07:50 and I remember we interviewed someone here 07:54 about how children succeed and that's the name of this book 07:59 his name is Paul Tough and he was talking about 08:00 what makes a person successful, 08:04 how do you help a child to be successful 08:07 and one of the things is character building 08:09 it was not just about academics, it's about character building 08:13 and that's what your dad 08:14 was doing with you... it sounds as though... 08:17 he was helping to build your character, 08:20 your integrity, your work ethic... 08:23 getting you prepared for life. 08:25 That's also one of the reasons 08:27 why Adventist education is so important too 08:30 because it helps with that character building. 08:32 Yvonne: Absolutely. 08:33 I actually didn't go to the Adventist schools, 08:35 Oakwood was my first time that I went to an Adventist School 08:39 and I was actually very happy to be there because 08:42 I could participate, 08:43 when I went to public schools, 08:45 they had all kinds of activities on Friday nights 08:49 and on the Sabbath and they always had dancing and... 08:53 and so I usually didn't go, the kids knew I worked 08:58 and so, I was honored to know that 09:00 they had given me that Senior Work Day... 09:03 the Senior Work Day is... all the kids would go out 09:05 and work in the community and they gave that money 09:07 that day... to certain students that they thought 09:10 needed some help, so, I was honored. 09:12 That's great. 09:14 And I felt good to be able to go to Oakwood 09:16 because my life seemed to open 09:19 and when I got to Oakwood my first year, 09:22 I was there with my good friend... 09:24 with Paul Monk, you know Paul Monk? 09:25 Yvonne: Yes. 09:26 But the second year is when I saw my beautiful bride-to-be. 09:31 Oh, let's talk about that. 09:33 Yeah, how did you guys meet, how did that come about? 09:36 You know, I was just trying to think of how did we meet 09:40 because Paul Monk... you know... we were very playful... 09:44 and I think the first time we met is... 09:49 I don't know... maybe I shouldn't have said it 09:52 but we changed the signs, 09:54 they were doing renovation on the Girls' bathroom 09:57 and the Boys' bathroom, we changed the signs... 09:59 Oh, it's a prank now. 10:02 So we did a prank and we had 10:04 Dr. Plumber to go into the wrong bathroom 10:06 you know... Yvonne: Was it E.J. Plumber? 10:09 I don't know what it was but we called him Professor Plumber, 10:12 whatever his first name was and my wife was in there 10:16 and here is Dr. Plumber coming in 10:17 and when she came outside and she saw Paul Monk and I 10:22 she knew that we had done a prank 10:24 and so, I think that was how we got introduced to each other. 10:28 Was she angry or...? 10:30 Dr. Williams: She was... she was kind of angry 10:33 and, as I said, a lot of times we were supposed to go out 10:36 but we couldn't go out because I was under punishment. 10:39 I never did anything really bad but a lot of pranks. 10:42 Yvonne: Ah ha... ah ha... 10:43 And between myself and Paul Monk we did strange things. 10:46 So how did you go from her looking at you, 10:52 "Oh this guy is a prankster" to "Oh, I like him. " 10:55 I think I made the Dean's List. 10:57 Yvonne: Oh... well I think that will do it. 10:59 Jason: So you got good grades eh? 11:02 She said, "He's not as crazy as we think he is, 11:05 he's got a little bit of sense up there," you know, so... 11:07 Yvonne: So what did you major in? 11:10 I majored in Religion and History 11:13 and my wife actually was a good student, 11:19 she was an extremely good student, 11:21 she had grown up as a Catholic and she wanted to be a Nun 11:24 and maybe in her Sophomore year of college, 11:31 her family went to a tent revival held by Elder Fordham 11:37 and they all joined the church 11:38 but she had looked up to the Catholic Church 11:41 and wanted to be a Nun 11:42 and so that put her on the path to come to Oakwood, 11:46 so, but... her family... they were all Catholics. 11:50 Wow! that's going to be an interesting conversion too 11:53 from being Catholic to Adventist 11:55 because there are quite a few differences... 11:59 quite a few differences. 12:01 You know, I was thinking about 12:03 Dr. Williams was saying that he wasn't in an Adventist School 12:08 and how they had... in public school 12:11 all of these distractions, and dances and all that, 12:14 and I thought about you 12:16 and how you wanted to public school 12:18 for a minute... and how, yeah, so... 12:20 Okay, so this is what happened, right, 12:22 I was going to a private school, Adventist School 12:26 and I wanted to go to a public school, 12:28 I wanted to go to a public high school, 12:30 so, I ended up going to Arlington High School 12:33 and my mom... Dr. Williams: Public School? 12:36 Yes... and so my mom was saying that... 12:38 the first sign... the first thing you want to do 12:42 on a Friday... 12:43 the first time you want to do something on a Friday night 12:46 or Sabbath... and all that stuff, 12:48 I'm pulling you back and you're going to private school, right? 12:52 I was in that school for probably... like... 2 to 3 weeks 12:55 at best... and they had the dance, 12:58 I wanted to go to the dance, it was Homecoming Dance, 13:01 I wanted to go, she was like, 13:02 "No! you're going back to private school" 13:05 and that was short-lived. 13:07 I enjoyed... I went to Abington... 13:11 I enjoyed the school, people were very nice 13:13 but like I said... I was kind of socially ostracized 13:17 because all the important things seemed to be 13:21 either Sabbath or Friday night. 13:24 Did you play sports? 13:25 I did for a while until, as I said, 13:28 I got up to a certain size... that's when my father figured 13:31 that we could work in 13:33 Integrity Building and Construction Company 13:34 but I did run track, I ran track, 13:37 we... I did wrestling... 13:39 and I think I did a little bit of football, 13:41 we had weight classes and I wasn't big 13:44 but for the weight classes it was all right 13:48 and I was an "End," 13:50 I was not as athletic as my other two brothers 13:53 my baby brother was five years' younger so he... 13:57 but my oldest brother, Morgan was quite athletic 14:00 and my baby brother, Clinton, you may have known Clinton... 14:01 Yvonne: I remember Clinton. Dr. Williams:Clinton Williams Jr 14:03 But I could run... I could, I mean... that was good 14:05 I was good in... but I wasn't as coordinated as 14:08 you know, and they could move their feet and dribble 14:10 and stuff like that but I could run. 14:12 So when you... when... after you got out of high school 14:15 and you went to Oakwood and you're on the Dean's List 14:17 and you're finding that this is really a good place for you, 14:21 it's a good fit for you 14:23 and you met the love of your life there 14:25 after you left Oakwood, what did you do? 14:27 We both graduated because I had to drop out of school 14:32 one year for financial reasons and I had to come back 14:35 and I worked at a place in Pennsylvania 14:38 so it kind of made me a little... 14:41 a lot serious too... because my wife caught up with me, 14:43 Margaret caught up with me and we were in the same grade then 14:46 and a lot of students had moved on 14:50 so my third year in school, I was quite serious 14:53 and the fourth year... I was very serious. 14:55 I was the President of Student Movement 14:57 and we graduated in May of '62 15:02 and we got married in August of '62 15:06 so, I dated her for the four years that she was there 15:09 and right after we graduated, we got married 15:13 and they called her to teach at Pine Forge, 15:16 so that was our first... we lived in a little "Snake House" 15:20 at Pine Forge right above Elder Sebastian... 15:23 Sister Sebastian... and she taught there for one year 15:25 and then the next year, 15:27 I said I wanted my career, I wanted to be a minister 15:30 so she said, "Let's go to Oakwood" 15:32 so we went to Oakwood, excuse me... Andrews... 15:34 we went to Andrews... not Oakwood... 15:35 we went to Andrews and were there for a year 15:40 and I left Andrews to be a pastor 15:42 at Oklahoma City, I had three churches... 15:45 Oklahoma City, Enid and Langston 15:47 and the Lord blessed us, 15:49 I have to say that the Lord has been good to us 15:51 and my wife was a good helpmeet she didn't like the... 15:55 she... I wanted her to learn to play the piano and sing 16:00 but she didn't... she never to do that, 16:01 she said... she didn't want to do anything... public life... 16:05 but she supported me, 16:06 you couldn't talk about me... 16:08 her DeWitt... you couldn't talk about me 16:10 but she supported me and the Lord blessed me 16:13 and at an Evangelistic Meeting, we baptized maybe... 16:17 68 people in the church, we build a new church, 16:19 as soon as we built the church, 16:21 19... the church... we built it, we had a big dedication, 16:24 they called us to the mission field. 16:27 So in 1967, we left to go to the Congo 16:30 and we had one little girl, Deitrice 16:33 and our second girl was born in the Congo. 16:37 You pastored three churches at one time 16:40 and then you built one... so you were on number four? 16:43 How did you... how did you... 16:45 you must be excellent with time management, 16:47 how did you manage that? 16:48 Well, I do like to manage time though, 16:51 I do believe in managing time and I don't watch a lot of TV 16:54 I may not watch this. 16:56 Yvonne: No, you have to watch this. 16:59 Well I do... I believe that time is a gift. 17:03 It's... the most precious gift that we have... is our time. 17:08 So how do you manage your time, like... if... 17:11 do you write a schedule out, do you... what do you do? 17:15 I do have lists... and I make my list and I prioritize 17:19 after I make a list I do prioritize it 17:23 and one of the most helpful books that I ever read 17:28 was given to me by the President of Southwest Region, 17:33 Elder Robert... who... we were pastoring... 17:34 it's called: The Magic of Thinking Big 17:36 and I don't know if you've ever seen it... the book... 17:40 but I read it two or three times 17:41 and it... it... it helped me to do things, 17:45 you know, it showed that you can... 17:48 you can think small... 17:50 it takes as much time to do small projects 17:53 as it does to do big projects, to really think outside the box, 17:58 and think big... I don't know if the book is still around. 18:01 Yvonne: What's the name of it again? 18:02 "The Magic of Thinking Big" 18:04 and I read it through for a while or every year 18:09 and I didn't do everything in it like it said, 18:13 "Go first class when you fly" 18:14 I rarely go first class 18:17 but that's what puts you in that frame of thinking big 18:20 but most of the principles I really believed in 18:25 and I believe in time management. 18:26 When you were at Oakwood, I want to go back for a minute 18:30 because you got involved in... this was during the '60s, 18:34 right... and you got involved in 18:36 that whole Civil Rights Movement. 18:38 Let's talk about the environment in Huntsville in the '60s. 18:43 I remember it pretty well but I'd like to know 18:46 what your thoughts are 18:48 and that situation that you mentioned in your book, 18:51 I'd like to talk about that too. 18:53 Well, you know, I came from Philadelphia 18:56 and there may have been racism you know, in the north, 18:59 but it was not overt so when I came to Oakwood, 19:04 the first time we came to Oakwood, 19:05 this was the first time I ever saw signs that said, 19:08 "Colored only" you know, near the water fountain, 19:12 and the first time I ever would go into a restaurant 19:16 and be refused to be served. 19:17 Now, my wife's father was very fair skinned, 19:20 he could pass for white, he would go in 19:22 and when he came down... 19:23 and purchased food for the family, you know, 19:26 but we as students, 19:29 we couldn't go into any of the places there. 19:32 I remember going to the sister church, 19:35 the Central Seventh-day Adventist Church 19:39 in Huntsville, Alabama, which was a white church 19:41 and we heard that a choir was coming from Southern... 19:46 what's the one in Tennessee? Southern Adventist College 19:50 so we said, "Let's go over and hear them" 19:54 and so we went over and sat right in the front, 19:58 we wanted to hear the choir 19:59 and I remember the man coming out and saying, 20:02 "Will the boys from Oakwood go to the back of the auditorium 20:07 or go up in the balcony 20:08 and the program will not continue until you do this" 20:10 and so, that's what we did, 20:12 we got up, little bit shocked, you know, 20:14 but that's the first time, actually, 20:17 I'd ever been in an Adventist church 20:19 and asked to go to the back or go up into the balcony. 20:23 But we did and we stayed there, so, a little bit later on 20:27 in 1962 as I mentioned, 20:29 Martin Luther King came there, we had the biggest gym in... 20:35 in all of Huntsville, 20:37 he came and gave his "I have a dream" speech, 20:39 and then we studied the Sabbath School Lesson 20:42 on the brotherhood of mankind. Yvonne: Hmmm... 20:44 Thirteen lessons in the Sabbath School 20:47 talking about how Christ came to save man 20:51 and how we're all related so somebody said, 20:54 I think it was your father, Benito Hodge, 20:56 he was there, and he said, "Let's go over... " 21:00 all right... Henry Wright, Willy Lee and myself, 21:04 your father and somebody else. 21:06 Was Victor Brooks there? 21:08 Yeah, but I don't think he was there, 21:09 somebody said, "Let's go over to the Central 21:11 Church and see how they're taking these lessons. " 21:13 So we went over, on Sabbath, Sabbath School, 21:17 each one went to a different class, 21:19 I went to one class... your father went to another class, 21:21 and Henry Wright and Willy Lee... as I said... 21:23 Ron Lindsey... that's the other person. 21:25 Yvonne: Ah... 21:26 And so we went to... went in and... 21:29 we were in the class maybe five or six minutes or so 21:31 and then... a lady came and tapped me on the shoulder 21:34 I said, "Yes," 21:37 she said, "Can we see you in the Pastor's Study?" 21:38 when I got to the Pastor's Study... there was your father, 21:42 there was... all the other fellows were there 21:45 and the lady said, "I'm the wife of the pastor, 21:48 he's not here today but 21:49 we want to tell you that you can't be in this church today, 21:53 this is not your church, 21:54 you have to go to the First Church 21:57 on the other side of town. " 21:59 And I remember, we all started arguing, 22:02 "We're studying the brotherhood of mankind," 22:05 the man who was there from the Union, he says, 22:08 "Well, you're not going to be here today" 22:11 and he says, "When you get as old as I am... 22:14 you'll understand that some things 22:16 that you young people are doing... " 22:18 your father was there... he pointed to his bald head 22:21 he says... he says... "I'm as old as you are... " 22:24 he said, "and what do you mean 'when I get as old as you are?'" 22:27 and he said, "Well, fine... " 22:29 he got exasperated, he said, 22:30 that if you don't leave right now, 22:31 we're going to call the police. 22:33 Yvonne: Hmmm... Dr. Williams: So, we left... 22:34 and I still remember one of the men of that church 22:38 coming out crying, 22:42 he actually had tears running down his face... 22:44 he had a little baby in his arm 22:45 and as he came out, the tears were dropping down 22:48 and he says, "Please forgive us, 22:49 please forgive us, we're not all like that here," 22:52 he says, "some of us have not learned" 22:54 he says, "we're not all like that" 22:56 and as we drove away, that's what he was... 23:00 standing there crying... I remember the tears coming down 23:02 and maybe 25 to 30 years later, 23:06 my nephew, Dean Calhoun, was a member of that church 23:10 and he invited me to speak there 23:11 so certainly the times have changed. 23:13 Yvonne: Yes... Dr. Williams: Times have changed 23:16 Jason: That's crazy... I can't imagine being so... 23:19 I can't be in a church or drink from this water fountain 23:23 because I'm black, that's nuts... I mean... 23:26 Dr. Williams: Go back to the '60s. 23:28 Well, we still have racism today it's just institutionalized 23:31 as opposed to being just overt but, I mean, 23:35 clearly they didn't have an understanding of Jesus 23:38 because Jesus loved everybody. Dr. Williams: He did... 23:40 So, they obviously weren't studying their Bibles very well. 23:44 And the Sabbath School Lesson 23:45 was on the Brotherhood of Mankind... 23:47 for a whole quarter they were studying those lessons 23:51 and it didn't seem to make much difference 23:53 but I thank God for that one man who came out there. 23:57 That made a difference probably in your spirit 24:00 because you saw that not everybody was feeling that way 24:04 but it so... I remember during that time, 24:08 I was about... I was about ten or eleven and 24:11 I remember the different fountains 24:14 and I... but I never went to the church, 24:18 but my dad did obviously... he went to the church in town 24:21 but I never did so that's... 24:23 that was a really intense period during that time. 24:27 When we got back to the campus, the kids were going, 24:30 "You should have stayed there and let them arrest you 24:33 and let it get in the papers" 24:37 we said, "Well, we didn't want to make 24:39 anything bad out of it" you know... 24:42 Yeah, yeah, so after you left there when you went 24:45 and you went to Andrews, did you encounter racism there 24:49 or was there any... 24:51 No, I don't remember any racism, that's of course Michigan 24:57 and we were in Huntsville before but I don't recall 25:04 any racism ever after that you know... over racism. 25:10 Hmmm... hmmm... hmmm... hmmm... thankfully we don't encounter 25:16 that kind of thing now and that's a blessing 25:18 but I know that during those times 25:20 it was an intense time. 25:22 So, after you left Oakwood, you went to Pine Forge 25:26 and then you went to Andrews, what got you on the health path, 25:31 because you were doing religion, 25:33 how did you get on the health path? 25:35 Oh, as I said, we went to the Congo, 25:37 we spent five years in the Congo, 25:38 Lubumbashi and then Kinshasa, we came back, 25:43 I went to the Indiana University and got my Doctorate there 25:45 and then I went into the 25:48 Communications Department for five years, 25:52 and we went back to Africa, we went to Burundi and Rwanda 25:57 and then we came back... and... 25:59 What's it like being a missionary? 26:01 Well, I actually enjoyed it very much 26:03 I'm not a 100 percent sure that my wife was enthusiastic. 26:08 What were the living conditions like? 26:11 Well, the living conditions were pretty good 26:14 and there was a little bit of racism there 26:17 and we didn't... she didn't like the way 26:21 many of the missionaries treated the Africans. 26:25 Yvonne: Hmmm... that's interesting... 26:28 Yeah, some of them very paternalistic and demeaning 26:32 but many of them were not, you know 26:36 and I... I was young then so I was pushing... 26:39 I was the President of the Central African Union 26:43 it was Rwanda and Burundi, we had seven fields 26:45 and I put in the African Presidents... 26:47 and I called a man over to help me to... 26:50 who I knew, you know, and we just clashed, 26:54 I couldn't believe it, I knew him 26:56 and I thought we grew up together 26:57 he's black and we just... he was... he didn't see pushing 27:03 he said, "They're not ready, everybody is not ready" 27:05 so I put in Dr. Ofuku at Mugonero Hospital, 27:08 and I put in another doctor at Gateway, 27:11 I put in all the presidents and so... maybe kind of... 27:15 I think I was pushing too fast and so when I came back 27:20 for furlough, my wife said, she says, "I'm not going... 27:26 I don't want to go back to Africa" 27:27 so, she didn't go back, I actually had to go back 27:31 and pack up and that was the end of the missionary career, 27:36 I would have gone on but she... she was just... 27:39 just had pretty much... enough of it. 27:41 Why didn't she want to go back? 27:42 Dr. Williams: Why didn't she? Yvonne: Hmmm... hmmm... 27:44 Well, like I said, I didn't get along and 27:47 we didn't get along 27:48 with the other couple that we brought over 27:51 and the kids were in Maxwell Academy in Kenya 27:56 and when we came by to... on our way home 28:00 Darnella, the one that you saw today, 28:04 she was having difficulties in school 28:07 and my wife said, 28:09 that she has to be there in that school the next year because 28:11 the teacher taught... maybe... multiple grades... 28:14 and she didn't want that to happen. 28:16 Elder Battle did everything he could, you know, 28:18 he said, "Well, we'll bring the kids home 28:21 and we'll have them go to live with your... her mom... " 28:23 my wife's mom, Margaret's mother 28:24 and... but she just made up her mind... she wasn't going... 28:27 that's the first time I saw her put her foot down 28:29 on something I wanted to do 28:31 but she was not going back 28:33 and Elder Battle says, 28:35 "You left the General Conference... " 28:37 he says, "so, we want you to go back to the General Conference" 28:39 so I... this is when I wrote the first book 28:41 there's... I was... this was 1982, 28:47 we came back in 1982 and for almost nine months or so 28:50 we didn't have a job but I'd go, you know, 28:53 giving mission stories and stuff and... but I... 28:56 and then I started my first book 28:58 and by then I had a call to go into the... 29:03 they called it the Health and Temperance Department 29:06 at that time and I didn't have any background 29:09 in Health and Temperance, as a matter of fact, 29:12 I wasn't too healthy... I don't believe 29:16 but I could... the Department... it saved my life 29:19 because I changed my lifestyle, 29:20 I wasn't a vegetarian but, you know, when I came in... 29:23 I started reading Ellen White's books, Ministry of Healing, 29:27 boy! when I got into that chapter about vegetarianism, 29:30 flesh foods... oh! 29:32 I said, "I can't be in the Department and not lead" 29:36 so, I prayed and prayed and prayed 29:39 and I became a vegetarian in 1983, 29:41 I've been an Adventist all my life 29:43 but that was the first time I became a vegetarian. 29:45 I wasn't all that active but I saw... 29:48 read that chapter about being active, 29:51 and I started running, I ran in 1987, 29:54 I got enough behind me to run the Marine Corp Marathon. 29:57 So, it actually... and then they sent me to... 30:02 to Loma Linda to get my Master's in public health. 30:06 Back then you could do... they had an off-campus program 30:11 so I could be at home and 30:13 I went to Loma Linda from time to time 30:18 so, it changed my life. 30:21 I was a... I felt like a dummy, really, in the Department 30:24 before... in the other Departments I felt competent 30:27 but here we had medical doctors and some men had medical... 30:32 MD, Ph. D. and I didn't really know too much about it 30:38 but I prayed and as I said, it changed my life. 30:41 It must have been a calling because the Lord knew 30:45 that you needed to be there 30:47 because you didn't have any experience with that... 30:48 Dr. Williams: No experience... 30:49 So the fact that they put you in there, 30:51 that's really interesting. 30:52 And from 1983 until I retired in 2010, 30:55 that's what I did, health... health and temperance. 30:59 I traveled all over the world doing "Stop Smoking" programs 31:03 I did "Stop Smoking" programs in Turkey and Kuwait 31:06 and Jordan and Egypt and all over the Country here, 31:09 I did stuff for people... but it sure wasn't... 31:12 oh my! when I left Oakwood, that was not my agenda. 31:15 Now, when you were a missionary, 31:18 what were some of the things that you saw in those countries, 31:23 the way the people lived, the way they perceived life, 31:27 how different is that from the way we are here? 31:30 Well, poverty was... that was really a difficult thing... 31:39 poverty, they told us at one time 31:43 that every time you baptized a member, 31:46 it was a liability because you know... 31:47 here you baptize somebody, they pay tithe and everything... 31:50 but when you baptize somebody there, 31:51 you have to take care of them, 31:53 it was a liability, you know. 31:54 They didn't discourage you from baptizing... 31:58 So you got to think... you got to preach, you know, 32:01 but it was a difficult thing. 32:03 The level of education... there was a great disparity 32:08 of getting qualified workers, 32:10 it broke your heart to... to... to know that 32:18 we didn't have as many qualified teachers and preachers, 32:20 we would send some to America and some to Europe 32:25 and I'm so thankful today that 32:26 God has made provision to where now... 32:28 on African soil, we have, maybe, six universities now, I think, 32:34 maybe more, bona fide universities 32:38 and graduating BA students and Ph. D. students 32:42 and you know, God has really... 32:44 the time that we... we came back in 1982 32:46 it's just unbelievable 32:48 what has happened on the African Continent. 32:50 You know, Dr. Baker, just now, 32:53 went to be the President of University of Africa 32:57 there in Kenya... well that's a beautiful university 33:00 but they have one in... another one in Baraton 33:02 they have... I think there are seven, 33:05 there may be eight universities on the continent of Africa. 33:08 So the standard of education, 33:10 once you start raising that standard of education, 33:13 then, things begin to happen. 33:15 Yvonne: Absolutely. 33:16 And now I think all the Leaders of Africa 33:19 are... all the conferences... all the missions... 33:24 all the divisions are led by financial leadership 33:29 so, God has blessed. 33:32 You know, one of the things that really gripes me about media 33:36 is that... all you see when you see programs about Africa 33:41 is the jungle, I never see cities, 33:45 I never see civilization, you always see primitive folks 33:52 in Africa, and I think, you know, 33:55 it just kind of makes me crazy because I know... 33:58 I know that originally education came out of Africa, 34:02 Egypt was a huge mecca for information 34:06 in fact, in Medicine and Mathematics and all that, 34:08 the seat of civilization was in Egypt 34:12 so, I... I... it's like... when I see on television 34:16 that all we show is the jungle, that just makes me think... 34:21 Dr. Williams: Some beautiful cities in Africa. 34:22 Yvonne: We never see them. 34:24 We lived in Lubumbashi, Kinshasa, 34:26 that's a gorgeous, gorgeous city 34:29 in Rwanda... Kigali... 34:33 when we were there, Kigali wasn't a great city, 34:37 but since 1994, they had all of those... 34:40 you know, the Tutsi and the Hutu problems, 34:43 they have come back now 34:46 and built the southern... it's a beautiful... 34:48 we have a beautiful university in Kigali now. 34:50 We have universities... 34:52 makes you poke out your chest now... 34:54 and the nationals... they speak, three and four and five 35:00 and six different languages, you know, 35:02 Americans are... you know, we speak one language 35:05 but they know their national language, 35:08 they know English, they know French, 35:11 they know the different tribal languages, 35:15 they're very... very brilliant people. 35:16 You know a couple of languages too, what languages do you know? 35:20 Well, I did learn French and Swahili... really good, 35:25 and I learned a little... a few others but those two I learned. 35:27 Yvonne: Say something in Swahili. 35:29 Jason: See, I was going to ask that question. 35:31 Dr. Williams: Ahhh... say something in Swahili? 35:33 Now that you're asking me, I can't even think, 35:36 you have to tell me what you want me to say. 35:40 Yvonne: I live in America. 35:42 Dr. Williams: Maisha katika America 35:46 Yvonne: Maisha katik...? 35:47 Dr. Williams: katika America... Yvonne: Maisha Katika... 35:50 Dr. Williams: America... yeah... Yvonne: Okay. 35:52 in the Lubumbashi and in Kinshasa 35:58 in Kinshasa they spoke more Lingala, 36:00 we didn't speak what they called really good Swahili, 36:03 they called it Swahili Mbaya... 36:07 it was kind of a... they mixed Swahili with French 36:11 you'd have to go to Tanzania... 36:13 Tanzania is where they spoke really good Swahili 36:18 but I preached in it when I was there 36:21 Nilihubiri katika Swahili 36:24 I spoke... I preached in it when I was there, 36:27 but that was 19... I came back in 1982... 36:31 How do you say, "God bless you" in Swahili? 36:35 Mungu... I don't know... I don't remember anymore... 36:41 How long did it take you to learn it? 36:44 As I said, we were there for eight years 36:46 and Mungu... oh! wow! 36:51 and I spoke more French than I did Swahili... 36:54 and I don't... I haven't spoken a lot of Swahili since I left 36:59 but I have spoken French 37:02 so I've kind of kept up with French 37:04 and we were sent to Neuchâtel, Switzerland to learn French, 37:09 we spent six months in Switzerland 37:12 to learn French, so... 37:13 And how long did it take for you to learn Swahili? 37:16 Swahili was kind of... "after thing" 37:20 you know, we do it after work, 37:22 we had classes after work, 37:23 one of the pastors came and taught us Swahili 37:28 so I never did have the depth 37:31 of Swahili training that I had in French 37:35 but my reading still is good. Jason: Okay. 37:38 I just... I just haven't used it, 37:40 you kind of caught me by surprise... 37:43 I'm just thinking, Mungu... 37:46 It will come to you probably before we end. 37:49 Yvonne: It will come back. Dr. Williams: Oh! I tell you... 37:53 Let's talk about your wife because she became ill, 37:57 what happened? 37:59 Well, as I say, 38:01 we were married a long time 38:06 before we started noticing anything was wrong 38:10 and I guess, around maybe 1995ish... 38:17 so, we had been married maybe 30... 35 years or so, 38:22 she started stumbling a little bit, 38:25 we'd be walking and she'd stumble, 38:28 we'd go to get... have a prayer... you know... 38:33 everybody on Friday evening, you open and close the Sabbath, 38:36 open the Sabbath or Sabbath 38:38 you close... Sabbath evening, 38:39 we'd kneel down and she couldn't get up... 38:42 somebody had to help her up 38:46 and the more time went on, 38:50 she would stumble more, and then she started falling, 38:56 not only stumbling... but she'd fall, 38:58 and every time she fell, usually 39:00 she'd hit her head, oh... she'd fall... 39:04 we'd be walking in the street, you know, walking with her, 39:07 maybe even holding her hand 39:08 and she'd stumble and kind of like pull you down, 39:12 we started saying, 39:14 "Well, there must be something wrong" 39:15 and so I took her to a couple of doctors and... 39:19 and nobody knew exactly what was wrong and 39:23 they did, one of the pastors... one of my friends... 39:28 he said, "When we go in to Toronto 39:29 to have the General Conference Session there in Toronto... 39:32 you need to take her to a doctor there 39:33 because... the Canadian doctors... 39:35 they see people who come in from traveling overseas 39:39 and worked in Africa" and... so we did... 39:41 In 2000, I took her in to... I think it was Queen's Hospital, 39:47 I don't remember the name of the Hospital, 39:48 but they examined her, 39:49 they gave her a really good examination 39:52 maybe... two or three hours... and it was a team... 39:56 and they said, 39:57 "Well, it's nothing wrong with her nerves... 39:59 we think it's her muscles and if we had to do anything, 40:04 we would say, it's Muscular Dystrophy" 40:06 and so at least we had some idea of what was happening. 40:11 What's the difference between Muscular Dystrophy and MS... 40:16 Multiple Sclerosis? 40:18 Well, one... MS, I understand is the sheaths of the nerves... 40:23 it produces the same thing where people can't move and so forth 40:29 but Muscular Dystrophy is actual nerves that... 40:33 and there are five or six or seven different kinds 40:37 you know, Lou Gehrig's Disease, I understand, 40:39 is a form of muscular... there's a Duchenne... 40:42 we never did find out exactly what she has 40:45 but her younger brother, Jimmy, 40:47 he had Muscular Dystrophy, he just had it later 40:51 and he actually died last... last... two years ago 40:56 and he was younger, 40:57 Pearl... is in a hospital with Muscular Dystrophy. 41:02 Jason: Is it hereditary? 41:03 Apparently, familial, yeah, but Margaret kept falling 41:09 and finally we decided that 41:11 we're going to make her wear a helmet 41:13 because, like I said, every time she fell, 41:15 she didn't have enough strength 41:17 to stop her from hitting her head 41:21 and pretty soon it got to be... 41:24 to the point where she had to have a walker 41:29 and maybe the last... I retired in 2010 41:34 and I thought we would spend some of those miles 41:38 and travel all over the world, 41:39 those airline miles that I had been accumulating 41:41 and that's when she started to really... 41:45 that's the point where she pretty much couldn't do 41:48 too much by herself, you know, 41:50 we would put her in a wheelchair and take her places, 41:53 we took her to Oakwood for our 50th anniversary 41:57 in 19... in 2012... 42:00 that was our 50th anniversary from when we graduated 42:05 but she was in a wheelchair and then... maybe 2013... 42:09 it got worse... and the last... 42:13 maybe a year and a half of her life, 42:15 she was confined to her bed 42:17 and that was kind of a rough... you know... 42:22 to see your bride of so many years... 42:25 not able to get up and get out and my daughter moved in with me 42:31 and we got a... we got a ceiling lift 42:37 because it was difficult, 42:38 she couldn't get up to bathe herself, 42:40 she couldn't get up to go to the bathroom, 42:43 we took her outside every day, we loved her right to the end... 42:48 we took her... and when we had the memorial service, 42:51 I was surprised at how many people... 42:53 we lived in a Over-55 Community, people that I didn't even know, 42:57 they said, "Well, we just saw her... " 42:59 and we took her outside everyday, 43:02 maybe for two hours... three hours... 43:04 I bought flowers for her every week, 43:07 we had people over, you know, and maybe the last... 43:15 last six or seven months, 43:18 they were difficult months for her 43:19 and I just kind of... it was just difficult. 43:26 You know... that's... that's real love... when you... 43:31 you made the commitment before God 43:35 and you took care of her to the end... 43:38 you continued to... she was still your bride... 43:41 you continued to buy her flowers, 43:43 continued to... 43:45 And she got sweeter and sweeter, 43:46 you know, she could be fiery sometimes, 43:48 she had Texas fire in her... she... she would say... 43:53 Sabbath especially, "Let's call Clinton. " 43:55 I said, "My brother, Clinton?" because she... 43:57 she clashed head with Clinton, 43:59 she said, "No, I want to talk to Clinton" 44:01 "Okay... okay... " she'd say, "Let's call Richard" 44:04 I'd say, "My brother Richard?" she'd say, "Yeah. " 44:05 But she got sweet and sweet and sweet. 44:10 Oh... we praise the Lord for husbands like you, 44:15 because... 44:16 Actually, she went so fast... we took her... 44:17 I would... we left Thursday, we took her into a... 44:20 to get her flu shot and I was telling the doctor, 44:23 I said, "This hasn't been a good week for my wife," 44:25 I said, "She... she's had a little pain... " 44:31 because that Monday night, she coughed a lot and 44:34 Tuesday night, she just... she had a lot of pain, 44:38 and she didn't usually have pain... 44:40 that was one of the things we were thankful for, 44:41 I said, "Wednesday night she didn't sleep well... " 44:43 he says, "You'd better take her over to the hospital" 44:45 and he said, "because I don't have... " 44:47 he said, they needed to take X-rays and so... 44:51 I wheeled her in the wheelchair to the hospital 44:54 which was about three blocks away, 44:55 and she never... she never came home... 45:00 we took her there and... they started doing... 45:03 they said she had a stone in her kidney 45:05 and she had fluid in her lungs and her sodium... 45:08 I never heard that before... her sodium was low, 45:12 they said, "We have to... " 45:13 so they admitted her that Thursday night 45:16 and then they sent her to Johns Hopkins, 45:19 this was the Laurel Hospital, 45:21 but they sent her to Johns Hopkins 45:22 and at first they were trying to bring up her sodium, 45:28 so that Thursday and Friday and Sabbath 45:30 and Sunday and... something happened on... 45:33 so, I went in on Monday, 45:35 I couldn't believe it was my wife, 45:39 they had tubes all in her... they said that that night, 45:43 she had some kind of... like a... an attack... 45:47 and so, when I went in on Monday, 45:52 I called Darnell, I said, "Darnell... " 45:54 I said, "I'm down in the chapel" because I just... 45:58 I couldn't be there, I just went down in the chapel, 46:02 and there were some Muslims there, 46:04 I said... as one was praying, 46:06 I said, "Do you pray for people... other people?" 46:09 I said, "Would you pray for my wife?" 46:10 he never answered me, 46:12 I said it again, I said, 46:13 "Sir... " I said, "My wife is... 46:15 I said, "could you pray for my wife?" 46:17 so, he didn't answer me so, another one came in, 46:22 and I mentioned it to him, he had... 46:23 and he says, "Sure, I'll pray for you" 46:25 and then, by then, the other man he said, "I was praying, 46:28 and I couldn't answer you while I was praying... " 46:29 he said, "I did pray for your wife" 46:31 Yvonne: Oh, okay... 46:32 And so, she... she was almost unconscious 46:36 from then on... she passed on the Sabbath 46:41 and they anointed her, I think it was, Tuesday, 46:45 they anointed her, they came over... 46:46 the pastors came and they anointed her. 46:48 Was she able to speak or anything? 46:51 No, that Sabbath morning, they mentioned that... 46:55 they said, "Now, are you good with us taking her off... " 46:59 she was on a respirator and they said, 47:01 "We have to tell you that... 47:03 she'll may not do well if we take her off" 47:05 we said, "Yes, we're prepared," my daughter's a Physician, 47:07 she flew in that Sabbath and as I said, 47:10 Friday... all that... Sunday, Monday, Tuesday... 47:12 she's kind of like... comatose, 47:13 when my daughter, Deitrice came there, 47:16 she was sitting up, 47:17 because we told her... we told her, 47:19 "Deitrice's coming tomorrow" and we couldn't believe it, 47:23 her eyes were open, they put her hands... 47:25 some gloves on her hands because she was pulling things out 47:28 and she was sitting up, 47:30 and her hands were moving up and down 47:32 and backwards and forward and... 47:34 and we... we talked with her for about an hour 47:37 and then they... 47:39 after they had taken her off the respirator 47:40 and then she just put her head back, 47:45 so, that's... is still... November 7... 47:50 November 7... Yvonne: What year? 47:52 Dr. Williams: Last year... Yvonne: Oh... 47:53 November 7... so it's been about six... six... seven months maybe 47:59 six months... seven... something like that... 48:00 Yvonne: Yeah. 48:01 So we were trying to get... my daughter lives with me 48:06 so, that's... I think our roles are reversed now... 48:10 she's become... because she tells me what to do. 48:13 Yvonne: You're right... Laughter... 48:15 I used to tell her but now she tells me what to do. 48:18 Like he tells me what to do... he tries to tell me too... 48:22 Well, before we end... and our time has gone by so quickly 48:26 Dr. Williams: Yeah, we talked about me too much. 48:29 No, no, no, no, 48:30 we thank you for sharing and being so transparent 48:34 because surely there are some others 48:37 who are going through that 48:38 and being a caregiver is so difficult. 48:42 I mean, that is hard work, so we thank you 48:45 and we recognize how difficult that has to be 48:49 and we thank God for the resurrection. 48:52 One of the things that I did, I had to be close to my wife, 48:57 so I did writing... you know, I had my table there, 49:02 I was there with her most of the time, 49:04 and I'd sit there... and then that's how I... 49:06 and this was the book... 49:08 Perfect segue into this because... 49:09 I was getting ready to ask you about your first book, 49:11 let's talk about that. 49:12 This was the very first book I did, 49:14 "She Fulfilled the Impossible Dream. " 49:15 Yvonne: Let's talk about Dr. Dykes. 49:17 Okay, she was my teacher, Dr. Eva B. Dykes... 49:20 first black Ph. D. in the world 49:23 and it happened to be at Oakwood. 49:26 She taught... she got her Ph. D. in 1921, 49:30 she had already gotten a Master's degree 49:35 from Howard University but when she went to Radcliffe, 49:38 they said, "Oh no... we don't accept... 49:40 that's a black institution, you have to do it again" 49:42 so she had to do another BA, she had to do another MA, 49:45 and then she had to... 49:47 Yvonne: She had to redo all of her academics 49:49 in order to get into Radcliffe? 49:51 Dr. Williams: That's right. 49:53 oh... she had to do them while she was there, 49:55 she had already gotten it in Howard, 49:57 she had done her BA, she had done her MA in Howard, 50:00 but when they accepted her... probationary... 50:04 upon completing her BA and an MA 50:06 and she completed them 50:07 and they accepted her as a doctoral student 50:09 so, this was my first book and this is when I came back 50:13 from... from Africa, 50:14 "She Fulfilled the Impossible Dream" 50:16 and I really... and I just... they did this story 50:20 in Guide Magazine and so, this was 1985, 50:25 it went out of print and so I just reprinted it 50:27 and I put that Guide Magazine, I really like that... 50:29 I put that in the back. 50:31 Ah nice, you know what's great is, I mean, she is... 50:33 Dr. Williams: Did you have her as a teacher? 50:35 I did... I did... she was my English teacher 50:37 at Oakwood and I loved her. Dr. Williams: She was special. 50:40 she was excellent... She really was... 50:42 Remember the "Audibility" you had to speak, 50:45 she would tell you... I think academics and audibility 50:49 you had to speak, she said, "Students... " 50:53 and she was very proper when she talked, 50:55 "Students... when you speak in my class, 50:58 you have to speak so that everybody can hear you, 51:01 if you speak and nobody hears you, 51:03 what good is that?" 51:05 So she... audibility and academics 51:09 and she started the Aeolians, I believe, 51:11 she was the one that started the Aeolians, 51:12 Yvonne: Oh, the Aeolians, really? 51:14 And her father... 51:15 her father left her when she was a... 51:17 so she didn't grow up with her father, 51:20 but her uncle, Dr. James Howard, 51:23 who was a medical doctor, which back then... 51:27 was quite something, and so... he was a 51:31 and I actually found his picture... Dr. James Howard, 51:34 he went over to Ethiopia 51:37 to start a girls' school over there, 51:40 and I said, "Well, if he was a missionary" 51:42 I went over this... I went to the Customs Department 51:46 and found this picture, Dr. Howard 51:48 and the next book I did... can we go... 51:50 we still have time for that? Yvonne: Yes, yeah, yeah. 51:53 The next book I did was called "Highly Committed" 51:55 the captivating story of the Wilson family, 51:58 now this is: Elder Ted Wilson, 52:00 President of the General Conference... 52:03 and his father was a President, 52:08 this was the only family in our church history 52:11 where the father and the son were President 52:13 of the General Conference 52:15 and then his grandfather, 52:16 his name is Nathaniel C. Wilson, 52:20 Nathaniel Carter Wilson and his was Neal Clayton Wilson 52:24 and his is actually... Norman Clare 52:26 but they called him... he had his name changed 52:28 to Ted Wilson 52:30 and... officially changed... 52:32 and... but his father was President of four conferences, 52:36 four divisions and four unions, there's nobody else that... 52:40 and almost became a General Conference President 52:42 and his great-grandfather 52:43 joined the church under Ellen G. White... 52:46 Ellen G. White... 52:47 Jason: How long did it take you to write these books? 52:49 Ah, maybe... to do the research... 52:51 three years to do the research 52:53 and it's true so you have to validate the facts 52:59 and interviews... 53:00 I interviewed Ted Wilson and his wife... 53:05 they weren't too happy about writing it. 53:10 Yvonne: Oh! 53:12 She said... they said, 53:14 "We're public figures and we'd... " 53:15 so, she gave me one interview and wouldn't give me anymore. 53:21 He gave me several interviews 53:25 and he actually didn't want me to move forward 53:28 but I told him... I said, "Listen, I worked three years 53:32 on this book... I'm printing it, 53:33 I'm giving you the opportunity to make changes and corrections" 53:37 and you know... so he did... he read it... 53:39 and made some suggestions and I followed it, 53:43 but they were not real happy... and so... 53:48 Okay, hopefully that's changed when he did read the book. 53:49 Dr. Williams: But he did buy eight of them. 53:51 Oh, he bought eight... so you know... 53:52 I go to a book signing there and he bought... 53:57 so... he likes it... his family, you know, 54:01 the information in there... he learned about himself. 54:04 Jason: Money talks, he bought them, so, 54:07 praise the Lord. 54:08 For Christmas... and this was my... 54:10 my next in the last book, 54:11 I have one that's being published now, 54:14 and this was on missionaries... black missionaries... 54:17 Yvonne: And you know, we don't see a lot of that. 54:20 Why do you think we don't see a lot more black missionaries? 54:24 We see a lot of white missionaries 54:26 but not a lot of black missionaries. 54:27 We've had a good history. 54:29 You know, it's never come out... 54:31 again... it's kind of like Africa... 54:34 you know, we only see white missionaries. 54:37 We had this lady here... 54:39 Van Der Berg... she was killed in Africa... 54:45 she was... they were coming home... 54:48 on the roadside... you know a lot of times 54:50 the cars are parked on the road and 54:53 big vans are parked on the road 54:56 and went and turned the lights out and so forth 54:59 and they did that... and they ran into this... 55:02 she was killed instantly, so she was killed in Africa, 55:05 you know Dr. Elder Danny Davis, 55:07 missionary in the Youth Department, 55:10 this was our first black missionary 55:13 the very first black missionary went to Jamaica in 1892... 55:19 and most people don't think that in 1892... 55:23 you know, today Jamaica is kind of like a tourist resort, 55:25 in 1892... it was a... it was a... it was a... 55:28 it was a... a challenging... it was a challenge... 55:31 Yvonne: Hmmm... I would think so, 1892... 55:36 Dr. Williams: 1892... that's when he went over 55:37 Yvonne: Wow! 55:38 Dr. Williams: and then he went to Panama 55:40 and different places and actually what happened is 55:45 Carol Hammond wrote the first volume 55:47 and I'm in the first volume, she wrote a book about 49 people 55:51 and in there... she had a list of maybe... 55:57 a 100 or so different missionaries 55:59 and so... I looked at the list 56:00 and she called in, I said, 56:02 "What... who is going to write about these other...?" 56:05 So, that was my challenge too, to take the list 56:09 and follow up on them... and these were very difficult, 56:15 like I mentioned... James Patterson... 56:19 there had been nothing published on him before... 56:22 I had to find his picture at the passport office 56:26 and of course a lot of people knew Annaniah... 56:30 Yvonne: Oh yes, yes, yes and all of these are stories 56:33 about the different missionaries, their lives, 56:36 what they encountered... how, tell us briefly, 56:39 how people can get these books? 56:41 I don't have a website, I should, 56:43 but these two are from: www. teachservices. com 56:47 Yvonne: Oh okay, so they can just go to teachservices 56:49 teachservices. com 56:51 and this one... they have to e-mail me. 56:54 mdwilliams39@gmail. com 56:59 Yvonne: mdwilliams39@gmail. com 57:02 it... as I said... it was published in 1985 57:08 and I think they did the second printing in maybe 1990 57:11 and then it kind of... 57:13 and I just re-printed it. 57:15 Well, that's wonderful, we thank you so much... 57:17 Dr. Williams: It's been my joy. it's been my joy. 57:19 I've talked... my throat is gone... 57:22 We'll give you some water in just a second... 57:25 Well, we've reached the end of another program, 57:28 thank you so much for joining us, 57:29 join us next time and remember, 57:31 it just wouldn't be the same without you. |
Revised 2016-06-15