Urban Report

Christ in the Koran

Three Angels Broadcasting Network

Program transcript

Participants: Yvonne Lewis (Host), Jason Hovey, Stephen Dickie


Series Code: UBR

Program Code: UBR000206A

00:01 Where is Christ in the Qur'an?
00:02 How can we witness to our Muslim brothers and sisters?
00:05 Stay tuned to meet some men
00:07 whose knowledge of Islam in the Bible will astound you.
00:10 My name is Yvonne Lewis
00:11 and you're watching Urban Report.
00:37 Hello and welcome to Urban Report.
00:39 My guests today are Jason Hovey,
00:41 Director of White Garments Ministry
00:43 and Stephen Dickey, Author of
00:45 "Islam: God's Forgotten Blessing"
00:47 and the Maroon Resource book
00:49 and the Founder of Strawberry Meadow Association.
00:53 Welcome to Urban Report Jason and Stephen, yeah...
00:57 Thank you... good to be here.
00:59 I met you guys at ASI and I just have this...
01:05 this burden that... I feel like the Lord...
01:09 first of all... the Lord would absolutely have us get
01:12 the gospel to everyone and it seems like we don't really know
01:17 or talk about that much...
01:18 how to reach our Muslim brothers and sisters
01:21 and with all the stuff going on with ISIS and all that,
01:25 there's just such a negative viewpoint of Muslims as a whole.
01:30 So, I wanted to bring you in to talk about
01:34 how we can reach our Muslim brothers and sisters
01:38 with the love of Jesus Christ
01:40 but before we get into all that, let our Viewers know who you are
01:45 so, let's start with you Jason, tell us a bit about yourself
01:48 and how you got into this ministry.
01:50 Well, my name is Jason and I... I live in the New York City area
01:55 just outside of New York City, about 45 minutes...
01:58 Yvonne: What's that accent though,
01:59 that's not a New York accent.
02:01 I'm originally from Minnesota... originally from Minnesota,
02:04 and years ago I got in this work...
02:08 Steve actually gave a presentation at a local church
02:10 and that changed my whole perspective
02:15 of the Muslim people.
02:16 Yvonne: How so?
02:18 Well, he had shared Revelation chapter 9
02:20 where the Muslim people were actually used
02:23 to protect the true Christians
02:24 and when I had heard that, I thought,
02:27 "Now I'm a Seventh-day Adventist
02:28 with the understanding of coming to learn... "
02:31 I'm like... we should have an opportunity
02:34 to give their children and their people,
02:36 the opportunity to what we know now... as a people.
02:39 So, that's kind of what... what had opened my eyes there.
02:43 And so, once you started on this path,
02:48 like, how did you... because you went from...
02:51 just kind of nominally knowing about it
02:54 to now being an "expert" about it,
02:57 what was your journey into the passion for it?
03:02 Well, when Steve had shared that first sermon on it,
03:07 I had prayed to God that if you would be willing to use me
03:10 in any way with this work, I would be willing...
03:13 not even knowing that things would open up,
03:15 within a month and a half, I think, of hearing that sermon,
03:19 I was out doing door-to-door work with a young couple
03:23 and the JWs had went before us were giving literature also,
03:27 we decided to go to another area,
03:28 went to another area,
03:30 came to a large facility of... of a complex,
03:33 and we decided to go inside and I rapped on the first door,
03:37 no one answered,
03:39 then all of a sudden the doors creaked and opened behind us,
03:42 and here this darker complected man walked in,
03:46 he said, "Can I help you?"
03:48 I said, "Well, we're here to visit
03:50 with the owner of this apartment. "
03:51 He says, "I'm the owner" then he went on to say,
03:53 he said, "I'm glad you came back. "
03:56 I said, "What do you mean?"
03:58 He said, "Well, you were here last week and told me
04:00 that you'd come back next week with some literature for me. "
04:04 I don't remember this...
04:06 I had never been to this apartment complex in my life,
04:09 had no idea what this man was saying
04:12 and it struck me... I looked at the couple that was with me
04:16 and my thought was... either God gave this guy a vision
04:21 or an angel may have appeared as me,
04:24 well... long story short, he was a Muslim man
04:27 but the story gets even... even juicier.
04:30 Yvonne: Come on... come on...
04:32 Back when... back in Minnesota,
04:34 back in... before I gave my heart to Jesus,
04:36 I was a heavy drinker and... and did drugs
04:39 and one night... we're in the middle of Minnesota
04:42 out in the countryside of about 3,000 people
04:46 in the outside of that... and I was next to a pickup truck
04:49 drinking one night at a bonfire with a front of people
04:52 and we had someone that brought a foreign-exchange student in
04:56 lo and behold, that guy that I met
04:59 like, 8 to 10 years later is a Seventh-day Adventist
05:02 was the guy I'd met previously at a party when I was drunk,
05:05 first time I'd ever met a Muslim in the middle of nowhere
05:08 and I'm thinking... how does God work this 8 to 10 years later?
05:12 I meet that same very guy... now I'm clean from drinking
05:16 I know that the Bible says that we're not to drink alcohol
05:21 or eat pork and I meet this Muslim guy that many years later
05:26 and God was already working on his heart,
05:28 and obviously mine.
05:30 Look at God... look at how He brings people together,
05:34 He had you attend a meeting that Stephen had
05:38 and that kind of started that whole thing
05:41 but it even started before, when you were drinking
05:45 and you didn't even realize it.
05:47 No, I was telling Stephen that I look back at that
05:50 and how do I get in the work and I ended up at Steve's church
05:55 and I'm like, "How does God plan all this way ahead of time"
05:59 and to make it happen.
06:00 Yeah, yeah, yeah... God is awesome.
06:03 Well, let's hear from Steve, now Steve,
06:05 you've been doing this work for how long?
06:08 Just after 9/11... I was in Central Asia
06:11 I had been asked there to... to see if we could put a
06:14 printing press and to print Sabbath School lessons
06:17 for... I think it was the Southern Union of the old
06:20 Adventist Church in Russia
06:22 and on Friday... they took me to Samarqand, Uzbekistan
06:28 and they took me to a Muslim shrine
06:33 that venerated that Bible Prophet Daniel.
06:35 This is what they were telling me and I... I just didn't know
06:41 but outside there was a relief written in Russian, Cyrillic,
06:46 and English saying that very same thing
06:48 and I'm kind of... I knew nothing about Islam,
06:50 I said, "What do Muslims have to do
06:52 with the Bible Prophet Daniel?"
06:54 And then on the way... leaving that place,
06:57 we went by a round-about that had a lion with wings on it
07:03 which was from the Book of Daniel
07:05 and that really started me to question...
07:07 so my daughter was at that time... going to Loma Linda
07:11 whenever we'd go out to Loma Linda,
07:13 I'd go to the Adventist Library there
07:15 and the two ladies who were overseeing that library...
07:18 I told them what I wanted
07:20 because I didn't know what I wanted, I just knew what I saw
07:22 and they started bringing me all these microfiche reels...
07:25 I'd be there for days...
07:26 I wasn't seeing the daughter... she was in class,
07:29 learning about Islam and Adventism...
07:31 I knew that in... I think less than 23 or 26 of the old texts
07:37 in Revelation Seminars had a whole lesson in Islam
07:40 and I had given those back in the '80s...
07:42 so that was my mindset...
07:45 I just started to read... I loved history
07:46 and that's how I created the... the Maroon Resource Book
07:49 because I found these things in the Adventist archives
07:51 and I put it here so that people could find it as well.
07:54 Wow! well tell us about this book... what is this book?
07:56 This is just some information I found in the Adventist Archives,
08:00 oh we found it in the Ministry Magazine Archives,
08:04 we found in just Adventist books
08:07 that were printed by Pacific Press
08:09 saying that Muhammad was a prophet
08:11 and today that's almost like a sin in the church...
08:14 that... "No, how can it be?"
08:15 Well, I don't know, that's what our church said
08:17 back in the 1950s,
08:18 and I knew that no one would believe me
08:20 so I had to write this... I just copied it,
08:22 I didn't... I just copied it so people can see
08:25 this is what I saw... and so that's to help people
08:28 understand what our church was saying years ago.
08:31 So you compiled this book
08:33 that had a lot of the teachings from years ago
08:38 that Adventists were teaching about the Muslim faith.
08:41 Right... and then I came to the logic, I said,
08:43 "If this is true... I have to go before a Muslim audience"
08:46 and so I went back to Central Asia...
08:49 the President was still there and I said,
08:52 when I was there originally, I said,
08:55 "Would you give me an opportunity
08:56 to come back and share these things?"
08:58 I didn't know what I was even going to find
09:00 but we've done enough evangelism as a lay person
09:03 I just believe that the message
09:05 that God has given His church works for all groups of people
09:08 and I had no idea so two years later,
09:10 we went back and we did a... two-week evangelistic experiment
09:14 and no one said it was going to work,
09:16 everyone told me... it wasn't going to work
09:18 and so, I was a little concerned
09:20 but we had such a crowd and such a turnout
09:22 the crowd got larger every night... it didn't get smaller
09:26 and I didn't want any Adventists to attend,
09:28 and I only wanted hard Muslims there and God blessed that...
09:32 the last night I was there...
09:33 we extended our meeting for one week...
09:34 to three weeks total... and I was on a stage like this
09:38 and I'm speaking and I had Muslims standing behind me,
09:41 we had that kind of crowd and turnout,
09:43 it got bigger every night and people found Christ there
09:46 and so I realized that the old Bible stories we have,
09:50 the old work the Adventist pioneers did... works...
09:53 and so, that's been my work ever since of sharing...
09:56 there is a way... just look at what we have.
09:59 And how long has it been?
10:01 I think 15 years...
10:03 Yvonne: 15 years...
10:05 Stephen: Right... just for Muslims...
10:06 Isn't it amazing how...
10:08 we don't know the plan that God has for us,
10:12 we just never know... we know that He has a plan
10:15 Jeremiah 29:11... we know that He has a plan,
10:17 we know that it's a plan to prosper us
10:21 right, but... and to give us a future and a hope
10:25 but we don't know where we're going to be
10:28 or what we're going to be doing and He just opens it up.
10:32 Did you grow up in a Christian home?
10:33 My parents had converted to Adventism before I was born
10:38 like, I refer to myself as a heathen Seventh-day Adventist.
10:42 A heathen Seventh-day Adventist, okay explain.
10:44 Well, I got kicked out of Adventist Schools and
10:47 I joined the Marine Corp during Vietnam,
10:49 I mean... I was just... I was just,
10:52 I mean, I've had people come back and say,
10:54 "You're still in the church?"
10:56 I just said, "Ah... I'm just a heathen Adventist. "
11:00 So, how did the Lord... we have time...
11:03 how did the Lord bring you back
11:05 and I want to hear from you too Jason,
11:07 how the Lord brought you into His marvelous light.
11:10 In the Marine Corp, I made a deal with God,
11:13 I said, "I'm going to leave the church so that I can carry a gun
11:16 and all those things for three years... "
11:17 and when I got into Boot Camp, this is a long story
11:21 but I didn't have an Adventist Drill Instructor
11:24 but I had a Drill Instructor
11:25 that went through all the religions
11:27 as we were all lined up, he said,
11:28 "Last of all, do we have any Seventh-day Adventists?"
11:30 and I raised my hand... he came down... he said,
11:32 "Every Saturday morning you disappear... "
11:34 so they forced me to go to church
11:37 about three weeks later, they said,
11:40 "Tomorrow is a big practice,
11:41 no excuses, no sick... be... you're all here. "
11:44 And so I got all geared up with my bayonet
11:46 standing in line this Saturday morning,
11:48 the Drill Instructor saw me, he just hollered at me...
11:51 screamed... he said, "You get to Church"
11:53 and so, those are the kinds of stories I had...
11:57 the same thing with the Firing Range...
11:58 I... first live fire was on Saturday morning
12:01 and they said, "No excuses... "
12:02 so I'm out there ready to shoot my rifle again,
12:04 anyway, he threw me off the firing line
12:08 and made me go to church so I'm in Vietnam now,
12:11 I'm there for my third tour and I am a Sergeant...
12:14 I had my own Landing Zone and a message comes in from the base
12:18 that said that, "Chaplain wants to see you"
12:20 I thought, "Why does the Chaplain want to see me?"
12:23 And I ran over, I go back to the base camp at Tay Ninh
12:27 I walk into the Company Office,
12:29 the old Gunnery Sergeant's there...
12:30 they had been there 26 years... what we call a "China Marine"
12:33 he said, "Dickie, why are you here?"
12:35 I said, "Well, Chaplain called me. "
12:37 He said, "Dickie if you walk into the Chaplain's office,
12:40 the roof's going to fall in"
12:41 so I went over to the Chaplain's Office,
12:44 told who I was,
12:46 he said, "Well, I'm the new Chaplain here,"
12:48 and he said, "I'm a Seventh-day Adventist"
12:51 he said, "Would you like to go to church with me, tomorrow?"
12:53 Well, I had lost all concept of what day it was
12:55 so he made me go to church
12:57 and I had no idea who that fellow was
12:59 until about four years ago,
13:01 I was speaking in Desert Hot Springs,
13:02 I just relayed a little bit of the story
13:04 and he was sitting there and he says, "I'm that Chaplain. "
13:07 Wow!
13:08 So that's how God found me, I also married an Adventist wife
13:11 and the Lord blessed me.
13:13 Amen... amen... so you went after the service and all that,
13:19 you ended up getting involved in Sabbath School or...?
13:24 Well, ministry basically,
13:25 in the '80s... I knew I could sell,
13:27 I could sell things... I was a peddler... sold heavy equipment
13:31 and... Bob Borne came around
13:36 at ASI... when ASI was different than what you saw
13:39 it was only attended by 80 people nationally,
13:42 and he taught how to give Revelation Seminars
13:45 and I went through a Day Seminar of learning
13:48 and I think we did five or six of them
13:50 and people came in and it was just a thrill
13:54 to do that type of Evangelism
13:57 so that's where I learned back in the '80s... and so forth.
14:00 That is so great, so now, how did you find Jesus?
14:04 Well, I'll start off... first of all a little bit about my dad.
14:08 I was raised in Minnesota there in the farm with my parents
14:12 Dad was a heavy construction worker
14:14 underground... water, main and sewer pipe layer
14:18 and he was a heavy drinker and when I was a kid,
14:22 late teens there, my dad had rear-ended a car
14:25 which hit another car and he almost killed the people
14:30 and due to that my dad was... he was at home on probation
14:34 and my mom was about ready to leave him
14:38 and he started... he wanted to pray to God for help
14:40 because he realized he couldn't quit on his own
14:43 so he'd got down on his knees one day and prayed
14:46 and he started opening the Bible
14:48 and he came across the seventh-day Sabbath
14:51 and he's like, "I've never heard of anyone talk about this day,"
14:56 well, anyways, he had turned on the TV
14:58 and seen this TV Station
15:02 that was presenting the seventh-day Sabbath
15:04 was actually 3ABN.
15:05 Yvonne: Oh...
15:07 So my dad had sent in a donation
15:09 and apparently the 3ABN here had a contact there in the area
15:14 and they sent out through the church...
15:16 there were some local people there
15:17 to start doing Bible Studies to meet my dad
15:20 and so my dad was sharing things with me
15:23 for about four or five years, "Jase, Jesus is coming... "
15:26 at that time I was drinking heavily,
15:28 I worked in a Mink Ranch and I was married with two...
15:34 actually three step-kids and whenever he talked to me
15:40 I'd listened but it never had any effect
15:43 and then one night he asked me, he says,
15:46 "Jase, I'm going to head to a Seminar, I'd like you to come,"
15:49 it was a Daniel and Revelation Seminar
15:51 so I remember going at that time,
15:54 I had pretty long hair, chewing tobacco in my mouth
15:58 and I had probably gotten high earlier before the meetings
16:02 but I went to those meetings only because my dad asked.
16:06 I didn't go because I had any interest,
16:09 but I sat in that meeting and this lady...
16:12 right away they were talking about diet,
16:14 she was talking about a vegetarian diet
16:17 and I... I'm a mink rancher,
16:19 that was the worst people ever in our life
16:21 but I started to gain an interest in what was being said
16:26 and I never had an interest in health in all my life ever...
16:29 Yvonne: Hmmm... hmmm...
16:30 And then it came from the gentleman that was presenting,
16:33 he started presenting Daniel chapter 2... the image...
16:36 and I was raised as a Lutheran
16:39 but I never knew what the Bible was,
16:40 I tried reading it in Genesis once or twice... few times...
16:43 just seemed boring, anyways,
16:46 he went through Daniel... did the image
16:49 and then I came at the very last two nights of the meetings
16:51 so they talked on Revelation 13 and the Mark of the Beast
16:55 and at that point, when he spoke on Daniel 2
16:59 and he got into the issue of the Mark of the Beast
17:01 and the Sabbath... the thought came to my mind...
17:04 and it says, "There's only one person that I know in my life
17:08 that's following Jesus right now and that's my dad. "
17:10 I said, "All the rest of... everyone I know...
17:13 every one... is lost... "
17:15 and then the Lord spoke to me at those meetings
17:19 and He told me... I was lost...
17:23 Yvonne: Yeah...
17:25 And I had seen...
17:27 I was raised many times
17:29 to hear the name of Jesus in a prayer
17:31 but that was the first time that I had ever seen
17:35 where the death of Jesus meant something to me
17:39 and I prayed for the first time,
17:42 I prayed, not because I had a hangover,
17:44 not to get a girlfriend but I prayed for my heart and my sin
17:49 and so that was the opening night of my start
17:53 and I started attending the Seventh-day Adventist Church
17:56 right after that... and I just... just...
18:02 eating up everything I could,
18:05 people would have me over from church,
18:07 people did Bible Studies with me,
18:09 people gave me books... Ellen White books,
18:13 I'd watch Doug Batchelor' s program on 3ABN.
18:17 I started the TV...
18:19 the regular TV started dwindling out of my life,
18:22 I just... I was getting accustomed to something all new.
18:27 Hmmm... hmmm... how beautiful is that, really!
18:31 when we realize that Jesus Christ
18:36 is not just someone out there, but that He loves you,
18:41 like... you, me, you, it's... He becomes so personal,
18:47 He became personal to you with that episode...
18:51 that incident... He became personal to you
18:55 and Holy Spirit just... He was wooing you
18:59 and just drawing you in what a beautiful testimony,
19:02 really, so, after that...
19:06 you started working in ministry?
19:11 What did you do, how did you get in ministry from there?
19:13 Well, I started out just working with the local church,
19:16 I was facing a lot of...
19:17 when I came in the church we had a lot of people
19:19 that liked to do Literature Work,
19:21 a lot of people worked the Fair Booths at local facilities
19:25 where there were large gatherings
19:26 and I just got my hands in on different things,
19:29 whatever... whenever we had something,
19:31 I'd go out with the different people in the church,
19:33 we had Miriam McNeil and she did a lot of Health Seminars
19:38 so I learned a lot of health... more how to eat...
19:41 different princ...
19:43 not principles but different things of treatments like
19:44 water treatments, hydrotherapy, charcoal.
19:48 Yvonne: Natural remedies...
19:49 Yeah, a pharmacy in the kitchen
19:51 and so I was very fortunate,
19:53 God had put a lot of people in my life
19:54 through the local church that helped me to learn things
19:58 so I learned a lot right there
19:59 and then years later I was asked by Stephen
20:03 to attend a meeting there on how to reach Muslims
20:05 and there was only, I think, maybe 6 or 8 of us that went
20:09 there were a couple of gentlemen there
20:11 by the name of Ronnie and Sam and they invited me
20:13 to attend the ARISE Program
20:15 so I attended the ARISE Program for about four months
20:19 and then after that things opened
20:21 where I was able to be a... a Bible Worker
20:24 at a local church in New York and that's...
20:26 that's what started my journey to New York City area.
20:30 My intentions were, I would go to New York,
20:35 work for four months and leave
20:37 because I did not want to be in the big city.
20:39 How long have you been there?
20:41 Well, I've been on and off here now for...
20:44 man! I'm trying to think how many years it's been,
20:47 I've been there for probably...
20:49 probably four years now on and off a little bit.
20:53 Yvonne: Wow!
20:54 Yeah and when I first went there, I had no intentions ever
20:58 but when I got there I realized that
21:01 one, God had opened the door for me to work there
21:04 specifically with Muslims through the Conference
21:07 the New York Conference there...
21:08 and also, He had shown me that...
21:11 that this was a city that needed to be worked...
21:14 and that's when I actually,
21:17 I gained a love to work the New York City area
21:22 there is nothing more than I liked
21:24 than to... to reach New York City.
21:26 New York has its own energy doesn't it?
21:29 I'm a New Yorker so... yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
21:33 So, let's go back to Stephen, so let's talk a bit about
21:36 what Christians and Muslims have in common,
21:40 what things do we share in terms of
21:44 beliefs and Old Testament and that kind of thing?
21:51 Well, I started attending General Conference
21:54 in North America Division Muslim Meetings
21:58 and I think I have been to every single one
22:01 held anywhere in the word since 2002
22:03 because I wanted to hear what the other people were doing
22:07 I took it upon myself to interview retired missionaries
22:11 I'd go there and listen to their story
22:13 because I didn't know Muslims, I didn't know...
22:15 Another thing that concerned me, I'd go to all these meetings
22:19 and there was no Seventh-day Adventist literature
22:21 at these meetings because no one had written anything,
22:24 the last book that had been written,
22:26 that was from a Seventh-day Adventist perspective
22:27 was 1979... and that's the one we shared with you,
22:29 so, I realized... when I started to go with my research
22:35 and I found this information,
22:36 I said, "This is great news because
22:39 the Muslim says our Bible is corrupted...
22:41 and you can never win the argument...
22:43 you know... I tried...
22:44 as others have tried and I also realized that
22:48 once you have a hard discussion with a Muslim,
22:51 that opportunity is closed forever
22:53 not unless the guy goes back and re-opens it,
22:55 that's why I was very careful of...
22:57 Jason and I... we say, "It's easier to reach a Muslim
23:00 but you've got to handle three questions very carefully. "
23:03 Oh, what are they?
23:04 Well, the Bible is... they want to say the Bible is corrupted
23:07 and you'd say,
23:09 "I really like what your Qur'an says about what Jesus is... "
23:13 and I smile and I don't go any further,
23:16 the tendency we have as Adventists is to say too much.
23:18 And then they always want to know about
23:21 the personality of Jesus and God and I say,
23:24 "Your Qur'an is so clear on what it says about Jesus
23:27 it's amazing... " I frown a little bit...
23:31 I act like I'm thinking... I say,
23:33 "You know, the Qur'an in Surah 1919 says that
23:35 Jesus received a gift of righteousness...
23:38 without that gift of righteousness,
23:40 there's no hope for me and you
23:41 to go through the judgment to see Jesus come,"
23:43 I said, "You're Qur'an makes it very clear... "
23:45 now, a Muslim has never heard that from a Christian,
23:48 Right... a Christian quoting the Qur'an...
23:51 Because what you have to do, you want to get to the point
23:54 where you can just visit with a Muslim...
23:56 and what Jason and I have found
23:58 and others that are here in this work,
23:59 "if you can't get inside of the Muslim's
24:02 friendship... within a matter of a minute and a half
24:04 to two minutes, you've done something wrong"
24:06 because a Muslim wants to talk about the end time,
24:11 they want to talk and we talk about...
24:14 the other thing about Jesus is, "Your Qur'an makes it so clear
24:17 that when God gave His Word, it says in your Qur'an,
24:21 that His name is Christ Jesus,"
24:24 I say, "That's so clear, so the Bible has the same principle...
24:27 that Jesus is the Word of God"
24:28 and so, a Muslim has never heard that from a Christian before,
24:33 you've neutralized their concept,
24:35 you've established credibility in the Bible
24:38 but the prophecies that we found
24:40 in the old Adventist charts, in 1843... the Millerites...
24:45 and then in the 1850 chart
24:47 where we show them that they're in the old Adventist Eschatology
24:51 all of a sudden... a Denomination of people
24:55 are saying, "You Muslims are in the Bible"
24:58 and you smile when you say it.
25:00 That literally works...
25:01 we've tracked up and down the streets of Istanbul, Turkey,
25:04 for three days...
25:06 my Muslim friend who became a follower of Jesus
25:09 and I'd roll those old charts out
25:12 and we got it to the right group of people one day
25:16 and they listened for...
25:18 they said, "You got 22 minutes, Stephen,
25:20 to sit... to talk about this... "
25:21 Yvonne: They put you on the clock...
25:23 Oh they put you... you always run by the clock,
25:25 they never go over... you got to be...
25:27 because Muslims are very structured in legalism
25:29 and so you've got...
25:30 until you become friends with them,
25:32 you've got to play the role
25:34 and so, I told them the story, I said,
25:37 "You Muslims shed your blood
25:38 to give me the right to be a Seventh-day Adventist... "
25:40 I said, "God called you people
25:42 that's why you had Suleiman the Magnificent...
25:44 that's why you have these in your history...
25:46 because God wanted you on place when Luther and Melanchthon
25:51 were going to be killed by Charles the Fifth...
25:53 when he was going to go and execute the Pope's wishes"
25:56 and I said, "You're men, your ancestors...
25:58 you don't even know about... shed their blood
26:00 to give me the right to be a Seventh-day Adventist
26:02 and I have a responsibility
26:03 to tell you that you're in the Bible... "
26:05 when that all took place,
26:07 the man that we were there to see
26:11 he said, "Wait a minute... "
26:12 20 minutes later, he went over against the wall,
26:15 turned his back to us, he came back and he said,
26:17 "Tomorrow... " he looked at his watch...
26:19 he said, "I have an interview for you
26:20 at one of the largest newspapers in Istanbul
26:22 about Seventh-day Adventists"
26:23 and he said, "Can you go to Ankara?"
26:26 He said, "I have you on a live call-in program
26:29 on Friday night... " this was Wednesday...
26:31 Yvonne: Hmmm... my!
26:32 Stephen: And he says, "Can you go?"
26:33 Well, you know, we pray about things,
26:35 we didn't have to say, "We'll have prayer... "
26:36 but we said, "Yes, we'll go there"
26:38 and so those are the kinds of things when a Muslim hears...
26:40 they're in the Bible... in a positive way
26:43 rather than arguing about this or that...
26:45 which is ridiculous,
26:47 we have found it so easy to reach Muslims...
26:50 and Jason... he puts this to everyday
26:53 on the streets of New York.
26:55 Give us an example, Jason.
26:56 Well, I'm not sure how long ago it was here in New York City
27:00 but there are Muslims everywhere on the streets there
27:03 and the number one thing is
27:04 when you're coming to visit with a Muslim
27:06 is you want to say the greeting, Salaam-Alaikum
27:09 that means, "May God's peace be upon you"
27:11 just like when you're reading the Bible
27:13 and Jesus ever entered a house,
27:15 He said, "Peace be unto this house"
27:17 well the Muslims... they'll put their hand over their hearts...
27:22 it's like the western world giving a handshake,
27:24 they put their hand over their heart,
27:26 that means you're close to me,
27:28 so you'd come up and you'd say, "Salaam-Alaikum"
27:31 in a greeting and...
27:32 normally the Muslims will look at me
27:34 and they see this white man from the west
27:37 and they're like, "Oh, you're a Muslim?"
27:41 I say, "No, I am a
27:44 Seventh-day Adventist" and normally they...
27:46 they're not sure if they're hearing you wrong,
27:49 if they understood what you said,
27:51 so they'll be like... "Se... se... seventh... "
27:54 you go through it three or four times
27:56 and pretty soon you're just like,
27:58 "Seventh-day Adventist... it's okay if you can't pronounce it"
28:00 and they're like... and they'll say,
28:03 they'll always say, "What is that?"
28:06 And then we normally share the things
28:08 that we have in common right away,
28:10 I'll say, "Well as a Seventh-day Adventist,
28:12 we're a group of people that don't believe in eating pork"
28:15 and the one reason I share that right away
28:18 is because a Muslim looks at a Christian and believes...
28:21 because all of Christianity today for the most part,
28:25 says that, "Jesus gave the authority
28:28 and blessed and changed...
28:29 that we can eat anything and drink anything we want. "
28:31 So when you come to a Muslim,
28:34 and you say, "I don't eat pork, I don't believe in drinking"
28:38 they'll say, "Why?"
28:39 you say, "Well, because of the Bible...
28:41 the Bible shares that with us"
28:43 and so, we've got different literature
28:45 that we give to the Muslims that share all the verses
28:47 in the Bible that speak against drinking alcohol and eating pork
28:51 because what you're trying to do is,
28:53 you are trying... remember,
28:54 just like we as Christians are scared of Muslims and their book
28:58 they're just as scared to look and open our Book.
29:00 Yvonne: Hmmm...
29:02 Because they've been taught from little babies and kids
29:05 that our Book is false and not to read it.
29:07 Hmmm...
29:08 So, just as Jesus... when He walked this earth,
29:12 He gained the confidence of all people
29:14 and that can be done through many different ways
29:16 but what you're doing right now when you meet a Muslim,
29:19 as a Seventh-day Adventist for the first time
29:21 and you bring these first few things,
29:23 what you're stating to their mind is...
29:26 is that you are actually following truth
29:28 as they know to be truth...
29:29 Yvonne: Right.
29:31 So they're like, this person...
29:32 there's something specifically different about this person.
29:36 Yvonne: Yes.
29:37 So no matter who you work with,
29:39 if we share something we have in common with truth,
29:42 they relate that to honesty and things of God
29:46 and they're very willing to open up too
29:49 because just like we're a little sketchy and full of fear,
29:53 they are too... because they're attacked day after day
29:57 by Christians saying,
29:58 "Jesus is the Son of God and Jesus died on the cross... "
30:02 they've heard it thousands of times...
30:04 we're not the first ones to bring that to them.
30:06 Right... right... I love the idea of what you guys are doing
30:12 in terms of quoting from their book...
30:14 showing the validity... co-relation, I want to say,
30:21 between their book... the Qur'an and our Book... the Bible
30:25 and showing that the Bible teaches, "Don't eat pork,"
30:31 the Bible teaches about not destroying the body
30:36 with alcohol and things like that,
30:37 so, what you're doing... and by quoting...
30:41 and giving them specific quotes,
30:43 that... to me... is like... establishing a rapport...
30:47 the first thing you're doing is establishing a rapport...
30:51 because just like you said,
30:53 everybody's a little sketchy about the other person's book,
30:57 right, I'm kind of like... "Okay... "
30:59 so they're looking at you like the Bible is corrupt...
31:03 and the average Adventist is looking at them like,
31:06 "Well, we have the truth and we're going to... "
31:09 but the real deal, I think, and what I hear you saying is,
31:13 establish that rapport and work within the framework
31:18 of their timing and that kind of thing.
31:20 One of the things I've learned
31:21 and it wasn't that many years ago,
31:23 two years ago, I came up with flash cards,
31:25 1 plus 1 is 2... 9 x 9 is 81...
31:29 and then I have an Algebra equation...
31:31 I used that mainly within Adventist circles
31:34 I said, "I went to a conventional school,
31:37 one plus one... I learned that in First Grade,
31:39 but I learned 9 x 9 is 81... that was Fourth Grade"
31:43 and I said, "Algebra... I got into that at Seventh Grade"
31:47 I said, "When we talk to Muslims,
31:50 the problem that most of us have had...
31:52 we want to talk Spiritual Algebra in the first two minutes
31:55 and you lose it... and you never get the
31:57 opportunity to reach that Muslim. "
31:59 If we teach in increments...
32:01 if the First Grade Teacher... she had to have known
32:04 basically... basic Algebra to get the Teaching Certificate,
32:09 but she never taught a single First Grader... Algebra,
32:12 she only taught 1 plus 1... one of those simple things...
32:15 it doesn't mean she didn't know it... she knew it...
32:18 and that's one of the things we teach in our classes
32:21 that people know how to reach Muslims,
32:22 you've got to incrementally sound in thinking
32:26 and not let a Muslim push you to do Spiritual Algebra
32:29 because, otherwise, you'll blow it that way too,
32:32 they want to push you.
32:33 Ah... unpack that a little bit for us.
32:35 Well, there's some things you just don't move to,
32:37 that's why I smile... and not normally a natural smile
32:41 but you learn to smile... and you say,
32:42 "I really like what your Qur'an says, da... da... da... da...
32:44 and there is probably, Jason,
32:48 Jesus is mentioned how many times in the Qur'an?
32:50 Man, I can't remember now exactly...
32:51 I think it... I don't want to say for sure
32:55 but I want to say it's over 25 actually, probably 35 times.
32:58 And that is the most common use proper name in the Qur'an
33:02 and so... it's... Yvonne: Jesus?
33:05 Stephen: Yes, yes.
33:06 Jason: Now the Muslims call Him Isa...
33:08 so if you're reading in Arabic...
33:09 Stephen: Yeah, and so, you play into their logic,
33:13 Number 1: they've never... let me say this,
33:16 we Seventh-day Adventist and all Christians,
33:18 we have the Bible, if you're talking to a Baptist
33:20 or Methodist, you've got your Bible,
33:22 I believe this... and I believe this...
33:23 this is what it says... a Muslim never does that.
33:25 We find that when we train our people,
33:28 they really know the Qur'an better than the Muslim does
33:31 because Muslims... their concept of salvation is
33:36 "I need to recite the Qur'an in Arabic
33:38 and I don't need to know what it means"
33:41 that's how they receive salvation... they believe...
33:43 Yvonne: Hmmm...
33:44 So when we start talking about these verses,
33:48 they've never... they... I've never had a Muslim
33:51 in all the years I've been doing this,
33:52 say, "You're... the Qur'an says this... "
33:54 I've never had him say that.
33:55 Yvonne: You're kidding... Stephen: Never...
33:57 Yvonne: So when they go to the Mosque,
33:59 they're not learning verses,
34:03 I know they pray but they're not...
34:05 Stephen: Well, they're learning in Arabic but they don't know...
34:07 they don't have to know what they mean.
34:10 Many Muslims don't... can't speak Arabic
34:12 but they learn it to hear it and to recite it...
34:14 even though they don't know the meaning of it.
34:16 I see, I see... so when you've talked to different Muslims
34:21 they've never quoted... ever...
34:24 No, it's very common for us as Adventists
34:26 to be giving them an insight
34:27 as to what the Qur'an says in their language.
34:30 Jason and I... we met a Muslim Publisher,
34:33 the largest English Qur'an translation program
34:36 in the world, he's right in Queens, New York
34:39 and Jason and I went to do business...
34:41 spent seven hours with this man, this man was so insightful,
34:44 he never once challenged us possibly, we just talked,
34:49 and one of the things he mentioned, he said, you know...
34:51 he said, "I believe 98 percent of Muslims
34:55 have never read the Qur'an in their own language,
34:58 he said, "The concept of Islam is
35:00 that they have to learn in Arabic
35:02 but they don't need to know what it means so what good is it?"
35:04 That's what he told...
35:05 and we had a Muslim old man tell us... he was a Publisher,
35:07 those are the kinds of insights,
35:09 another Muslim told me once, he said,
35:11 "We have learned and we accept that the Qur'an came
35:15 as a revelation from God, who can argue with God?
35:19 That's why we just read it and we have to accept it. "
35:22 Once that Muslim told me that... I realized...
35:25 "Well, I can get away using the Qur'an
35:27 without the Muslim saying anything to me... "
35:28 once I learned that concept, it's opened up the whole door.
35:32 A Muslim can never say, "Oh, the Qur'an doesn't mean that. "
35:35 Now, what they'll say is,
35:36 "You have taken it out of context"
35:38 or "You have to read it in the Arabic script"
35:40 now, when a Muslim tells me that...
35:42 I smile at them and say, I smile and say,
35:45 "Gallup did a poll a few years ago... "
35:47 and I said, it was interesting...
35:49 and I said, "You know it's found that only 18 percent of Islam
35:52 can read and write Arabic"
35:53 I said, "Allah is going to have mercy on my soul"
35:56 and I smile and that's all the further I go...
35:59 and they never push it further, never...
36:01 So there's never a question of interpretation,
36:06 like, they don't say... when you quote a verse from the Qur'an,
36:12 for example, they don't say, "Well, it means this...
36:17 it has another meaning... "
36:19 they just take it as face value and that's it.
36:22 That's close, but what they will say,
36:24 "You need to read it in Arabic" they'll throw that at you
36:28 and that's what...
36:29 But they can't read it in Arabic... many of them, right?
36:30 Most of them can't... yeah... Yvonne: Okay...
36:32 They can recite it to try to trick you,
36:34 not unless you meet an Arab...
36:36 then they can handle it.
36:38 Yvonne: Right... right...
36:40 Jason: That's their way of getting around the issue.
36:41 Okay, so, what... what kinds of breakthroughs
36:46 have you had with establishing the rapport
36:50 and then letting them... well, before I go there...
36:54 how do you then let them know about Jesus and His death
36:58 and resurrection because they don't believe in the cross,
37:03 right? so how do you... or do they? tell us.
37:06 Well, Number one... no, they don't...
37:08 but their Qur'an says different.
37:10 Yvonne: Ah...
37:12 Stephen: In Surah 37... and this was a result of
37:16 getting into this... the Newspaper interview
37:20 that I just earlier... mentioned that we had the next day,
37:23 we went into this man's office,
37:25 myself and my friend Asif who was a Turk
37:29 and he could speak Arabic as well as Turkish and English
37:34 and so... we went in there and we...
37:37 this newspaper publisher in English communicated with me
37:41 and he said, basically, and I was very disappointed
37:44 because he didn't... he wasn't taking notes
37:45 and he didn't have a recorder out...
37:47 I said, "This is a waste of time
37:48 I've never been to a newspaper they're not taking notes... "
37:50 and he said, "Would you write an article
37:53 in our Newspaper every week... "
37:55 he said, "that shows what
37:57 Seventh-day Adventists believe and about the Second Coming?"
37:59 Well, what are you going to say? "Let me pray about it?"
38:02 No, we said "Yes, we could do that. "
38:04 And I'm sitting there just in afterglow,
38:06 I'm thinking... "Wow, wow... I got to... "
38:08 I like to scream...
38:09 So you can't show any emotion, well, so this time,
38:14 I'm sitting there just in afterglow...
38:16 and he's speaking to Asif
38:18 in Turkish and English and back and forth
38:21 and I'm processing in my mind
38:23 "What am I going to write, what am I going to write?
38:25 I'm processing this as quickly as I can
38:27 I said, "We got to talk about Jesus... "
38:29 so I said, "Well, I've got to get the... "
38:31 I kind of raised my hand like a First Grader,
38:33 got his attention, and I said, "You know, I think there's
38:36 something you need to understand... "
38:37 and I said, "You know, when I write,
38:39 I've got to talk about Jesus, so I know how Islam looks at Jesus"
38:42 and so he's listening... and I went to...
38:47 I referred to the Qur'an Surah 37,
38:50 I said, "You know the sacrifice that's written in the Qur'an
38:53 about Abraham and his son... "
38:55 now Viewers... just think... I said, "Abraham and his son"
38:59 I didn't say what son it was so when you talk to a Muslim...
39:02 Stephen: That's not the issue, it's the issue is the sacrifice
39:05 and so I said, "You know, that sacrifice...
39:07 in the Qur'an it says that it was a momentous sacrifice"
39:11 and I said, "that was not just a regular sheep,
39:17 this was something special... "
39:19 when I made that emphasis,
39:21 Asif is sitting over here to my right
39:24 he now starts to pick up the conversation
39:27 and he speaks to the Publisher.
39:29 Yvonne: Is Asif a Christian?
39:30 Asif is a follower of Jesus,
39:32 yes, he's the one that wrote the book
39:34 about finding Jesus as a Muslim,
39:36 and that's... this one here we showed you that one...
39:39 so, anyway he started to take over the conversation
39:43 and he said, "Can we speak in Arabic?"
39:44 And I said, "Go ahead... "
39:46 All of a sudden I'm... and I didn't think about this
39:50 for like, six or seven months later,
39:52 I'm now understanding in English what they're saying in Arabic.
39:55 I didn't realize it for... like I said... 6 or 7 months.
39:59 So the Holy Spirit kind of gave you the gift of tongues
40:03 of the interpretation... yes... wow!
40:05 and so, I'm listening to this... and Asif says,
40:12 "You know, in Arabic...
40:14 the momentous sacrifice means Azim... "
40:16 and I'm listening... and he says, "You know,
40:20 Azim is one of the 99 names for God in the Qur'an
40:24 so the momentous sacrifice was a figure of God being sacrificed
40:30 and this Muslim guy was like... he processes it...
40:35 and he's going like this... Azim and then he says,
40:39 "You're right... you're right"
40:42 and Asif says, "The Qur'an talks about the
40:45 sacrifice... it's in the Qur'an, it's right here...
40:48 and it says, His name is Azim
40:49 which is one of the 99 names for God"
40:51 and so, when I heard this I said,
40:54 "This was discussed between two Arabs in less than 3 minutes"
40:59 I said, "How come no one's ever figured this out before?"
41:05 Hmmm...
41:06 And so, once we understood that, now, the young man...
41:12 it's a long, long story here, he's now working for us...
41:17 the Newspaper Publisher... over there
41:19 and doing translation work for us...
41:22 and has submitted his life to God.
41:26 Yvonne: Praise the Lord...
41:27 But what we found is a highway to a Muslim's heart for Jesus...
41:32 and to share that with Seventh-day Adventists...
41:34 they think we're all lunatics.
41:36 They tell us the Qur'an is evil and all these things...
41:39 what can be evil when it says,
41:41 "Jesus received the gift of righteousness... "
41:43 or that... "Jesus is the Word of God... "
41:45 or that... or that the Qur'an is saying, "Go back... "
41:47 you know there are four verses in the Qur'an
41:49 that talk about the Sabbath... they condemn...
41:51 all four verses condemn Sabbath breakers.
41:53 Yvonne: Hmmm...
41:55 So, I mean, those are the kinds of things that...
41:56 Yvonne: And the assumption is that the Sabbath is
41:58 the Seventh-day Sabbath that we...
42:00 Stephen: Sabbath is Sabbath... Yvonne: The Biblical...
42:01 Stephen: Yeah, yeah... Yvonne: Okay...
42:03 Stephen: Those are the kinds of things we found...
42:06 it's kind of like the people who've got the leprosy...
42:08 they're up there beating on the door and saying,
42:10 "Hey, you got to go out here and look...
42:11 all the stuff's out here... "
42:12 People just find this so hard to believe
42:15 but if we can get them on the street,
42:18 Jason can take them... they see... it's there.
42:20 So, what you're doing then is... you're establishing rapport...
42:25 you're quoting from the Qur'an and you're trying to...
42:30 you also show them who Jesus is from the Qur'an.
42:34 Stephen: Yes.
42:35 That way you're starting from a place
42:39 that they can identify with and that they validate...
42:43 they validate the Qur'an
42:45 and you validate the Qur'an in a certain way
42:49 because it seems like, you guys are saying,
42:53 these are the elements of truth here... found here.
42:56 I want to make this clear because this is going out,
43:00 we're not saying that we leave them with the Qur'an
43:03 because in Matthew 6:33...
43:06 "Seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness... "
43:08 we teach the concept of righteousness,
43:10 that's why "Jesus received that gift of righteousness... "
43:13 because if you and I as a human being
43:16 don't have that same gift of righteousness,
43:18 of what the Bible says... there's no hope for anybody
43:21 because we want to point them to the second coming
43:24 and one of the things when I did my research in looking, I found,
43:28 "How come all those Millerite believers got along?"
43:31 They were Methodists, Baptists, Presbyterians...
43:33 they didn't quarrel... they were perfectly united,
43:36 they reason they were...
43:38 they were focused upon Jesus' soon return...
43:40 and character development... the power of the in-dwelling Christ.
43:43 Hmmm... hmmm...
43:45 And so we've taken that same principle
43:46 and put it into working with Islam
43:48 and it always works...
43:50 I mean, it comes quickly with Muslims.
43:53 Is the Second Coming in the Qur'an?
43:56 Stephen: No... Yvonne: Okay...
43:59 Stephen: But there's a judgment that if your sins go...
44:01 if your sins have not gone to judgment first,
44:05 then you're going to go to hell...
44:06 Those are the kinds of the verses we see there,
44:08 they don't allude to it but you look at other verses...
44:11 the person who wrote the Qur'an...
44:15 and I'm picking my words carefully here
44:17 or put it together or whatever,
44:19 is referring... "If you don't believe me
44:21 go back and look at the Bible or look at the Book. "
44:24 They refer to the Bible constantly in the Qur'an.
44:26 So the Scriptures are known as "the Book" in the Qur'an.
44:32 Stephen: Yes... yes...
44:33 The Qur'an... it talks about the last day and the resurrection
44:36 but it won't go into great details like the Bible would
44:38 about the Second Coming of Jesus
44:40 or go into the fine details...
44:44 Hmmm... hmmm... so, some of the people that...
44:47 because our Viewers love stories... some of the people...
44:50 did the Muslims that you have approached with this...
44:53 do many of them see the validity of Christ...
44:58 do they then... does it then kind of propel them
45:01 into their own search... are they searching...
45:05 like where are some of the people that you...
45:08 you've brought this message to?
45:10 Well, the young man that wrote this book,
45:13 it took him eight years from the time he stumbled across
45:16 who Seventh-day Adventists are till he made a decision.
45:21 I have not seen a lot of Muslims take it upon themselves
45:26 to do detailed study and research.
45:28 That's one of the things that I struggle with a little bit,
45:32 spoon-feeding is one thing but you've got to have people
45:37 who are self-starters... and... but I have found that...
45:41 that the Muslims who are seeking
45:43 are wanting to know more.
45:45 We've got a group right now in a Middle East Country...
45:47 I went to a wedding celebration
45:49 and one of the relatives came up to me...
45:51 I'm sitting at the table
45:53 and the Newspaper Publisher is sitting next to me
45:57 and they're speaking to me...
45:59 and they're going through a translator... she says,
46:00 "Can you come out and dance with me?"
46:02 Now, this was just line dancing...
46:03 and I don't know why I gave this answer
46:09 but I'm thankful I did,
46:10 I looked at her and I said, "You are another man's wife
46:15 and I'm not to touch you"
46:17 And she pulled back on me like this...
46:21 kind of... the facial expression was serious
46:24 then she leaned forward with a smile and she says,
46:27 "That's the way it's supposed to be... "
46:30 Now, the next day when the wedding was over,
46:33 she went and told the whole family of what I had said,
46:38 now we have the opportunity to go back
46:41 and do an Evangelistic Effort for the whole family
46:44 which is close to 60 people because of what I'd said
46:47 because now I'm trustworthy and those are the kinds of things
46:51 we start to see opening up
46:53 and there are so many things opening that we see happening
46:57 because what we have all found,
46:59 before we got there, the Holy Spirit beat us to it.
47:01 Yvonne: Hmmm... hmmm...
47:02 It's the Holy Spirit that's leading these people
47:04 and we need more Seventh-day Adventists
47:06 that can catch the vision and not the argument...
47:09 but catch the vision...
47:10 Yvonne: Yes... to minister to the Muslim Community.
47:16 Yeah, I had Jason...
47:18 Jason is seeing somebody on the streets that became a follower
47:21 became a Seventh-day Adventist, a Muslim.
47:24 Yvonne: Ah! Tell us Jason.
47:25 Jason: We got a young... oh, let me go back...
47:29 it goes back to the time I was visiting the
47:31 Seventh-day Adventist Church and one Sabbath...
47:33 Yvonne: Was this in New York?
47:35 This was in New York City yeah,
47:36 there was an old gentleman there by the name of George...
47:38 and George... he told me this story...
47:42 he finds out that I'm trying to share with Muslims,
47:44 he says, "Jason, I need help, what can I give a Muslim?"
47:49 He says, "I live underneath a Mosque... "
47:51 he says, "These people pray all the time, I hear their prayers,"
47:54 he says, "It's disturbing to me but why won't I help them?"
47:57 And I didn't have much on me but I had the 1850 chart
48:01 that Steve mentioned earlier, so I gave him that chart
48:04 and George took this chart back...
48:06 Now, what's on that chart?
48:07 It talks about the Daniel 2 image,
48:09 and it's got Revelation 13, it's got the 3 Angels' message,
48:14 the Sanctuary and on the right-hand side there
48:17 it's got the fifth and sixth trumpet
48:19 dealing with the war between Catholicism and Islam
48:23 and so I gave him that chart
48:25 and he gave that to that Muslim man...
48:27 the man liked the chart, he eventually says,
48:30 "I want to start coming to your church... "
48:33 so he started coming to the local church
48:35 and became a baptized Seventh-day Adventist
48:38 off that chart... and so
48:41 so God's working in many ways...
48:43 I'll tell another story we had down south there...
48:44 we approached an Imam as something we can share with
48:48 to a little bit about Isaiah chapter 60
48:50 that talks about the Muslims specifically
48:51 and we visited this Imam... two other friends and myself,
48:55 Yvonne: For those who don't know what an Imam is... explain.
48:59 An Imam is like a pastor or a teacher
49:01 someone that's within the authority of teaching
49:04 within their congregation.
49:06 Stephen: It's lower than a Sheik Yvonne: Okay, okay.
49:09 Anyways, we share with him that we're Seventh-day Adventists
49:13 a little bit of what we had in common.
49:15 I said, "I'd like to share with you that
49:18 Isaiah chapter 60 talks about the Muslims
49:21 entering heaven... Jannah... Paradise...
49:24 I says, "I want to share that with you because
49:26 because most Christians say you're all going to hell... "
49:28 I says, "I want to give you some hope"
49:29 so we shared that with him and some other things
49:32 and here's what he said,
49:34 he said, "I've been waiting 25 years
49:36 to meet a group of people like you,"
49:39 he says the Qur'an talks about the people... the Book...
49:41 he says, "I've been waiting 25 years... "
49:44 he says, "I never knew that these people were alive"
49:46 he said, "I always thought it was for the past... "
49:48 he says, "I had no idea it was for now"
49:50 yeah, and so that's an Imam that we've become good friends with
49:54 and we meet a lot of Muslims that have a lot of interest,
50:00 sometimes you're open to go further
50:03 but when we look back at Bible History,
50:05 we see that God was always preparing a people
50:08 before... before... and we look at the loud cry
50:11 and the things to happen in the future
50:12 when you look at the Bible, it talks about the...
50:16 there will be branches that will be broken off,
50:19 others will be grafted in,
50:20 in order for someone to be grafted in,
50:23 that means, you can't just take a seed and graft it to the tree,
50:26 that means that has to have some growth on it
50:29 before it can be grafted in
50:31 and I'm going to suggest that the Muslims
50:34 God is growing them where they're at
50:37 and preparing them and sometime in the near future
50:40 He's going to graft them in.
50:42 Stephen: Amen. Yvonne: Hmmm...
50:43 Yeah, and so if we could be patient
50:46 and look at the life of Jesus as He was there on that cross,
50:50 everyone fled... but look at how many days later
50:54 then all of a sudden... it erupted...
50:56 and there were all kinds of followers... opened
50:59 and it just spread and took off
51:01 and so, when we look at Isaiah 60...
51:04 Isaiah 11:11... God has a promise for these people
51:08 which you as a Seventh-day Adventist
51:10 and a Muslim that may be listening,
51:12 it talks about us coming together as a people
51:16 and just like Isaac and Ishmael both buried Abraham...
51:22 Abraham prayed for both his sons
51:25 and we get to be a part of that answered prayer...
51:28 Stephen: Amen
51:29 Yvonne: Hmmm... that's beautiful so...
51:31 we really do have a mission to achieve with the Muslims,
51:39 we really do... we have a message...
51:41 we have a mission...
51:42 and anybody that's really seeking truth...
51:46 the Holy Spirit...
51:48 that's His job... to guide them into all truth
51:51 would you not agree with that?
51:52 Stephen: Oh yes. Jason: I agree...
51:54 If I could share one thing,
51:56 Ellen White speaks in the Book Prophets and Kings
52:00 Hope for the Heathen, page 374,
52:03 she talks about Isaiah chapter 60
52:05 and she says that these prophecies
52:09 are being brought forth in fulfillment in today
52:12 and then she says,
52:13 "This is the church's appointed work... "
52:15 so that means, God has given the Seventh-day Adventists
52:20 appointed work as Isaiah chapter 60
52:23 and that's specifically to share with the Muslim people.
52:26 Yvonne: Hmmm...
52:28 One of the things, in Turkey we found...
52:30 as I was sharing this for 22 minutes... that information,
52:34 we get through... and after they do all these things, they say,
52:38 "We had a prophet... " they didn't say, "a prophet"
52:41 "we had a visionary... " or whatever... in the 1920s...
52:44 that said... there was to be a group of Christians
52:47 that came to Turkey
52:49 that had the truth for this hour about Jesus...
52:51 and he said, "we think you Seventh-day Adventists...
52:54 from what you said here... are those people"
52:56 and people can look that up on the internet...
52:58 write down the word, Said Nursi...
53:04 and then you read about that,
53:05 when they said that, you realize that
53:07 this isn't just Adventist Evangelism,
53:10 this is God working and we're His...
53:12 we have the opportunity to be His workers in these fields...
53:16 and to get people to listen to this story... is rare...
53:19 people just don't want to hear this because... "those Muslims,
53:21 you know what they do... da... da... da... da... "
53:23 I really don't care what they do they need to hear the gospel.
53:26 Yvonne: That's right... that's right...
53:28 it has to go to every nation, kindred, tongue and people
53:32 and we are to cry aloud and spare not...
53:36 so we have to give the gospel to everyone
53:39 and I just believe that some of the information
53:43 that you've given us today is just information that...
53:47 if someone has a desire to minister to Muslims,
53:51 you're giving us a real ground for... kind of...
53:55 where-do-you-start place
53:56 and I appreciate that so much... like...
53:59 tell... just give us if you would...
54:02 a few steps in these last minutes that we have
54:05 a few steps like... establish rapport...
54:08 what are some of the steps in ministering to Muslim people?
54:13 Jason, give the greeting again
54:14 and explain that because that is the key.
54:16 The greeting is when you visit with a Muslim,
54:18 you want to say, Salaam-Alaikum
54:19 means, "May God's peace be upon you"
54:22 and the Muslim will open up right then and there...
54:26 that's already the entering wedge...
54:29 it's like us coming together and saying,
54:31 "Happy Blessed Sabbath"
54:33 you already know it's a brother and someone that's kind to you.
54:36 Now, if they forget what he just said
54:38 and the pronunciation is on... go to Google...
54:40 and type in Muslim greeting... search
54:44 and you get it right there. Yvonne: Great.
54:45 Jason: Or you can just say, "Salaam... "
54:47 and they will know what that means... "Salaam... "
54:49 Yeah because people get like... A-Salaam-Alaikum...
54:52 and then Wa-Alaikum-Salaam and all that stuff, all mixed up.
54:54 Yeah, if you say that wrong,
54:56 they'll correct you and smile about it. Yvonne: Oh they will?
54:57 Yeah, they're still happy, they don't care.
54:59 Yvonne: Okay.
55:00 They've never been spoken to kindly by a Christian,
55:02 it's that easy... never argue.
55:05 We forget to show love, like,
55:08 the whole idea is to show love
55:11 so that we can have a... establish a rapport...
55:14 so the greeting... okay...
55:16 And then, you know, if anything ever should come up,
55:19 you never want to argue,
55:21 remember, debating never wins a heart... ever,
55:24 it never wins... you can say something,
55:27 if they want to disagree, just leave it be then...
55:30 don't talk it anymore, don't keep pushing the envelope
55:32 but have them over to your homes,
55:35 have them... invite them over to eat,
55:39 find a place that's...
55:40 where they could eat where there's no pork...
55:43 mention you don't eat pork... that's crucial...
55:45 Well, that works for us too, so...
55:47 Stephen: That's very true.
55:49 Jason: And most Muslims, they look at Christians
55:51 and Christians say,
55:52 "I can do whatever I want and I'm still saved... "
55:55 and when they see you as someone that's actually following Jesus,
56:00 they will see something different about you,
56:03 ask them questions about their books...
56:06 ask them questions about their family,
56:08 get to know them a little more personally.
56:11 And we talk about this because
56:15 it's not about rules, regulations and keeping the Law,
56:19 it's about the indwelling Christ...
56:21 a Muslim gets it... Christians don't...
56:24 they struggle with that, a Muslim gets it.
56:26 Really? Why do you think... why do you think so?
56:30 Because the Quran says,
56:31 "Jesus received the gift of righteousness"
56:34 they can't... they don't know how to go through the judgment,
56:36 that's why they go to the fast... the 30 days Ramadan
56:40 I said, "This is the way... Jesus was on this earth
56:44 as a human being and He walked the walk...
56:46 He showed... because your Qur'an says that
56:48 He's the nearest to God in heaven,
56:50 and if He had received the gift of righteousness,
56:52 you and I need the same gift of righteousness
56:55 so we can be nearest to God too.
56:57 Nice... nice...
56:59 Don't say too much... we've been very short here
57:03 and be just as short with a Muslim.
57:04 Wooo... you guys have given us some incredible information
57:08 thank you so much... thank you for all you're doing,
57:11 for your hard work... your diligence...
57:13 the way you have kind of zeroed in on what we need to do
57:17 and the steps to establishing rapport...
57:20 we thank you and we really appreciate all you do,
57:23 we have your websites, we'll put up your websites
57:26 so that Viewers can get in touch with you
57:28 because maybe some people want to get involved
57:30 and you should get involved
57:32 and thank you so much for being with us...
57:36 what a blessing... and I pray that you will really
57:41 get connected... get connected to some ministry,
57:45 if you don't feel called to do Muslim Ministry,
57:48 get connected to some ministry, time is short...
57:52 Jesus is coming... we have to be ready...
57:54 well, we've reached the end of another program...
57:57 join us next time... because you know what?
57:59 It just wouldn't be the same without you.


Revised 2016-11-14