Urban Report

Silence No More

Three Angels Broadcasting Network

Program transcript

Participants: Yvonne Lewis (Host), Stephanie Griffin


Series Code: UBR

Program Code: UBR000233A

00:01 Stay tuned to meet a woman who sees the devil
00:02 trying to come through the back door of the church
00:05 and she's going to put a lock on it.
00:07 My name is Yvonne Lewis, and you're watching Urban Report.
00:33 Hello and welcome to Urban Report.
00:35 Many of you know my former affiliation with
00:38 New Age Medicine and when I hear of anything that remotely
00:41 has a hint of that, I'm really on guard.
00:44 So you can imagine how pleased I was when my friend and colleague
00:48 Brenda Walsh told me about our guest today.
00:50 I told Brenda, I have to interview her on Urban Report.
00:55 My guest is Stephanie Griffin, author of Silence No More.
00:59 Welcome to Urban Report Stephanie.
01:01 Thank you Yvonne.
01:03 Thank you for having me.
01:04 Absolutely, it's a blessing to have you.
01:06 So, you have a whole journey with spiritual formation
01:13 and many of our viewers don't know what that is.
01:16 Don't know the dangers of it.
01:18 Let's talk about Spiritual Formation first and then we'll
01:22 come back to your journey.
01:23 Ok. What is Spiritual Formation?
01:25 Spiritual Formation really is just a generic term
01:30 and meaning what informs or forms your spirituality.
01:35 Hmm. What the Emergent Church has done with it,
01:39 is something different.
01:40 What is the Emergent Church?
01:42 Um, it's basically what's come out of new theology
01:50 and a new way of approaching Biblical studies and God's word.
01:56 Interesting, because I know that it is...there are different
02:02 organizations, different projects, different groups
02:08 that are promoting Spiritual Formation and what's the danger
02:16 of it. Why can't I have new deeper, richer
02:22 kind of experience through it? What's wrong with it?
02:26 It's based on the Spiritual Formation exercises
02:31 of Saint Ignatius of Loyola, and he was the first Jesuit,
02:39 he started the Jesuit order in the 1500's.
02:44 And so out of these exercises... it was of Catholic origin
02:49 and it has become repackaged and then adopted by the
02:57 mainstream Protestantism churches and then into
03:01 the Adventist movement.
03:02 And so for mainstream Protestantism,
03:07 it's really not a big deal, although there are some uprising
03:11 against it. Among them for us, a people with a message
03:17 for this day and time. It's extremely dangerous.
03:20 It's dangerous because it basically displaces
03:24 the teachings of the Three Angels Messages.
03:29 And so it brings in all about Jesus, the focus is Jesus,
03:35 which really is a good thing, everything is, even Revelation
03:38 is the Revelation of Jesus Christ.
03:41 But we can't omit prophecy, especially today and
03:48 where we are because it's either scary or not popular.
03:56 So in Spiritual Formation, the beliefs that accompany that
04:04 are that prophecy is not necessary,
04:07 it's just totally Jesus focused and leave everything else out?
04:12 All about Jesus and love and unity.
04:17 So this is really a movement that the end result brings
04:22 unity among its ecumenism.
04:26 Right. So it's... Bring all the churches together
04:31 for a deeper, richer experience and it really ends up being
04:36 mysticism. Yes. And the mysticism is based on
04:42 Eastern Religions that are incompatible with what we
04:46 believe in. Is that it? It's very true. Am I on it?
04:49 It's very true, you have nailed it and it's not something that I
04:51 and it's not something I really understood in the beginning.
04:54 and the mysticism component is contemplative prayer.
04:59 Which really is the basis of all of the spiritual exercises.
05:05 How does that work, contemplative prayer?
05:07 Well, I was taught to pick a word or words to focus on
05:17 and kind of go into Jesus' presence, and so I would usually
05:26 pick a Bible verse to focus on to meditate on.
05:28 You are supposed to meditate on the scriptures...Right.
05:31 "Be still and know that I am God."
05:32 Right. So it sounded very Biblical to me in the beginning
05:36 and I did choose a word, it was Jesus.
05:39 You know, interesting that I felt I needed a "safe" word
05:44 to begin my meditation, as I look back on that.
05:48 That was a big red flag. But I was basing it on the Bible
05:52 because it was introduced to me as Biblical prayer.
05:56 So it's creating that place where Jesus can speak to you
06:02 and there is no other noise, it's just very silent,
06:06 and it's also called The Silence, or Listening Prayer.
06:09 It's meant to be present with Jesus so that
06:13 He can speak to you.
06:15 You know, it's so amazing Stephanie because it all sounds
06:20 so wonderful like, let's just focus on Jesus,
06:26 let's just empty our minds so that we can have that
06:32 one on one with Jesus.
06:34 I mean that sounds absolutely beautiful because that's what
06:40 as Christian's, and as Seventh- day Adventist Christians,
06:42 we want a deeper relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ,
06:46 so yeah, that sounds really good.
06:48 But, it's so like Satan to take something beautiful
06:54 and just take just a little bit of distortion and throw it all
06:58 away, it's all the way something different.
07:00 It does. For every truth God has, Satan has the counterfeit.
07:05 Right. And there's counterfeit prayer.
07:08 Let's...We'll come back to the exercises.
07:12 Let's talk about how this happened to you.
07:15 How did you get into this whole area of Spiritual Formation?
07:21 Interesting question, good question,
07:24 and one I really had to dig deep and pray about it
07:27 and ask God to really reveal.
07:28 Because beforehand I was very knowledgeable about the prophecy,
07:36 um, I was well read, I was reading things like from
07:40 Hollbrook and the pillars of our faith.
07:45 And when it came to me, I was at a place in my life
07:51 where things were happening, there was some appeal
07:57 and then in my past, I think Satan took advantage
08:05 of some places in my life.
08:07 One being when my grandfather passed, I was with him
08:12 at the hospital and it was just at the very eleventh hour
08:18 before he passed away and he would have not made it
08:22 to the next hour for visitation.
08:26 So, he asked me to pray for him and I couldn't.
08:31 And I was the only grandchild raised Seventh-day Adventist.
08:37 Why couldn't you?
08:38 I was very angry about some things that had come to light
08:42 a couple years prior. That being I was told that
08:49 my father, the man who I had known to be my father
08:52 my whole life and was raised as my father, was not my father.
08:55 Umm. That my stepfather was my biological father,
08:59 so, I was already in a place of, I was basically a Laodicean
09:06 in my relationship...I was lukewarm, you know. Um hum.
09:10 I would go to church, I would do the right things,
09:12 but, and I knew the things.
09:13 But that relationship was kind of, it was on the back borner,
09:18 back burner, warm, and so when I found this out it really...
09:22 It really threw me and it shook my faith in God,
09:27 not in what I believed, but in God,
09:30 wondering how He could allow this to happen, and um...
09:35 What kind of relationship did you have with your
09:37 biological father? My biological father and I
09:41 were very close, I was in that home five days a week
09:45 and then with my other dad on the weekends and
09:49 summer breaks and that sort of thing.
09:51 So we were very close, we had the same sense of humor,
09:54 I could talk to him about a lot of things, he was fun,
09:59 he was a lot like me in a lot of ways.
10:03 His be...Who he was, gives reason to a lot of things
10:07 about me, good and bad. So, we are all a part of
10:12 who we come from so we were very close.
10:18 He was not a Christian and did not believe in God.
10:21 So those were the things that we didn't really have in common.
10:27 Um hum. And there was always this dichotomy in the home,
10:30 but my mom did a very good job of showing me.
10:35 So you had a close relationship with your biological father
10:41 and a very close relationship with your step dad
10:44 who you really looked at as like your dad.
10:48 He's your dad. So, what... how did you respond
10:54 when you found out that your stepdad was not your
11:00 biological father?
11:01 Um, it was late at night, and so my dad, the one who I had always
11:11 known to be my dad was a traveling salesman at the time
11:17 and I called my stepmom, woke her up, and I said,
11:21 what's dad's phone number? because he always checked in
11:24 always gave his phone number, and I woke him up
11:26 in the middle of the night. So I just said dad,
11:30 I was just told you are not my dad, is that true?
11:33 And he gave the most beautiful answer, he says,
11:38 nobody knows for sure, and he says, and we have been together,
11:42 we have been through too much together as a family,
11:44 not to be a family. Umm.
11:46 It was beautiful, and he never changed.
11:49 Rock solid, and he was there for me and let me know that
11:56 I was his daughter. Um hum.
12:00 It wasn't defined by blood, right? It was defined by your
12:05 relationship, so yeah.
12:09 But you responded to that whole situation with anger
12:14 towards God? Correct, I was angry at God and I told Him,
12:17 I said, I don't want anything more to do with you.
12:19 Hmm. So, I just kind of drifted and...out of my anger.
12:29 Um hum. And then when my... I still went to church some
12:33 but I didn't really seek a relationship at all.
12:37 So, when my grandfather passed away and I wasn't able to
12:42 pray for him, that really spoke to me.
12:45 God knows how to reach us. Yes He does.
12:48 And what to bring to our lives to do that, and so I am forever
12:51 grateful. Isn't it wonderful that even though we might
12:55 have those feelings toward God, He never has those feelings
12:59 toward us, He just keeps wooing and saying, I Love You,
13:03 I Love You Anyway, and that's what He did with you.
13:10 Whenever we push Him out of our lives, we are open to Satan
13:14 and He protected me.
13:15 And if we lose our lives during that point too,
13:18 I mean, the Lord spared your life during that time
13:22 when your relationship with Him was temporarily severed,
13:26 He spared your life during that time so...He did.
13:30 We just praise God for His mercy and His grace.
13:34 All the time.
13:35 So you saw that you couldn't pray for your grandfather
13:39 and that really shook you.
13:40 It did, how could I not pray for someone I love so deeply,
13:44 give him what he needed before left us, before he passed.
13:47 It's just...I never want to be in that situation again,
13:50 that I couldn't give somebody that gift.
13:53 Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
13:55 So, was that what spurred you into coming back to the Lord or?
14:02 It was, it was, and that's when I stumbled upon the doctrine
14:07 of the sanctuary. Ok. And all the doctrine contained
14:10 within the sanctuary.
14:11 Beautiful! Re-converted me to my belief system
14:15 but, with a doctrine that I really didn't know before.
14:19 Umm. I believe in the Sabbath, there were a lot of things I
14:23 believed in, but I didn't know about all the doctrine that
14:27 the sanctuary contains. It has all of our beliefs in it.
14:30 They're Biblical. So it re-converted me solidly.
14:38 So did you study it, or did you go to classes about it?
14:44 I was reading books, I was reading books like Sarah Peck,
14:50 I was on a mission trip.
14:51 Shortly there after I went on a mission trip.
14:53 I went back to church and I was rebaptized and
14:56 I was teaching the youth and I ended up on a mission trip
15:00 with my previous... Shenandoah Valley Academy.
15:03 My previous academy. And so I was invited on that
15:06 and I went and um, I was reading my book on the sanctuary
15:12 by Sara and one of the... there was a seminary student
15:17 who was also on it. He was like, why are you reading
15:20 seminary material?
15:21 I'm like, what? I'm just reading a book.
15:24 He says, that's a text book. I'm like, I don't know,
15:27 it's just good.
15:28 Those are the things that God was giving me,
15:31 probably to make up for lost time.
15:33 Umm. God gives you what you need and He redeems the time.
15:36 Yes. Yes He does.
15:38 So, you started reading more, you started praying more, how did...
15:43 what happened after that that led you into a whole other path?
15:50 Good question. Well, I moved to Loma Linda a year later
15:56 and I was working for Loma Linda in the Emergency Department
16:00 and I was moonlighting at Redlands Community.
16:03 And you're a nurse? I'm a nurse. Right.
16:05 Yes. And I met a wonderful hospital chaplain,
16:10 and so I was working agency through there for about
16:13 seven years. And it was during that time that he would
16:17 approach me from time to time. How are you?
16:19 He was very personal, very caring, loves the Lord.
16:23 And was always good about establishing and maintaining
16:27 any relationships with people.
16:30 So one day he came by and he says "How are you?"
16:34 You are disturbing my prayer life. Then he went on to tell me
16:37 things that I was experiencing.
16:39 And I was...That you hadn't told him about.
16:44 I had not shared that, that was very personal.
16:46 You know, that was between me and God.
16:48 And so, they weren't specifics, they were generalities
16:55 like I sense a struggle, I sense this, I sense that
17:00 and he nailed everything one by one.
17:04 And so, he said would you be willing to meet now for
17:08 some spiritual direction and I'm like, sure,
17:12 I never heard of it and I said sure.
17:14 I felt like I needed and desired some spiritual support.
17:19 And then it came in the package of a fatherly kind of gentleman,
17:25 very caring, very safe place.
17:27 So when that area moved, here comes the fatherly
17:33 type person. Right.
17:35 Very caring...Who had that spiritual component that I could
17:39 speak with about such things. And so you did.
17:43 And so I did and it was beautiful.
17:46 In the beginning, it was really beautiful, he would give me
17:48 Biblical courses and homework that incorporated the Bible
17:54 as well as something called contemplative prayer.
17:58 Um hum. What does that involve? contemplative prayer?
18:02 Well, it's basically, I mean as we understand it at New Age,
18:11 and mysticism, you empty your mind.
18:14 It was presented to me as a time of being present with God,
18:20 with Jesus that keeps out everything else.
18:26 It's just silence, and it's you and it's God
18:28 and it's very intimate and beautiful,
18:31 and it's a time for Him to be able to speak with you.
18:33 And who doesn't want to hear God's voice.
18:36 Exactly. Exactly. You know it is a passion,
18:38 it was a desire. Exactly. To hear God's voice.
18:41 And then with not being able to pray for my grandfather...
18:44 Of course that changed before I met him, but it was another
18:48 avenue of prayer that I hadn't explored and it was
18:51 intriguing to me, it's like oh, more about prayer, I can learn.
18:54 Right. So that's how it came to me
18:59 and that's how I began experiencing it.
19:02 Um hum. And when you first started it, as you said,
19:07 it was such a beautiful experience and it did take you
19:11 deeper into another realm, didn't it? It did.
19:15 Um, one of the things that people use to bait other people
19:26 into coming into this is the whole idea of, it's kind of like
19:31 standing by the tree, it's kind of standing by the
19:35 Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, like this fruit
19:38 will make you wise, this fruit is good to eat.
19:43 It's kind of the same kind of thing, this will bring you
19:47 closer to the Lord, and we want that, and so..
19:51 And you also, we also know that there are verses that say
19:55 you know, "My sheep know my voice" and all that,
19:58 so you are thinking, "well I want to know His voice"
20:03 so let me get silent to hear and to go deeply within
20:10 into that silent space, right.
20:13 And then, what happens? It's all part of that
20:18 eastern mysticism. It is.
20:20 It's all part of that... Repackaged for Christians.
20:25 Repackaged very beautifully.
20:27 Um hum. So what happened to you? What are some of the
20:30 exercises that they have you do?
20:33 Give us a few of them, just to explain...I just kind of want
20:38 our viewers to understand that it's a wolf in sheep's clothing.
20:44 It is. So what kind of exercises did you have to do?
20:50 Well, one of them is contemplative prayer
20:52 and how we know the difference between Biblical prayer
20:55 verses contemplative prayer is Biblical prayer
20:59 is an external silence, "Be still and know that I am God."
21:03 David was meditating, right, but he meditated on the Psalms,
21:08 on the law. We are to meditate on the law, not empty our mind.
21:12 Right. We have a quite environment so that we can
21:16 contemplate the law and hear what the Holy Spirit might
21:20 have to say to us about what we are reading.
21:22 Um hum. Um, the contemplative prayer with mysticism and
21:28 spiritual formation is an internal silence that takes
21:32 your mind offline. The frontal lobe just gets disengaged
21:35 because it decreases the blood flow, so... Come on now,
21:40 you're giving us the whole physiological thing, I love it,
21:42 I love it. Give us the whole physiological component.
21:45 So the frontal lobe is involved, and that is where we make
21:49 judgement. That's our judgement center, exactly.
21:52 So, that's interesting. So that becomes disengaged
21:56 during this process. It does, and ironically
22:00 spiritual formation practices have something called
22:05 exercises for discernment. And so if I am wanting to know
22:11 if I should take a different job, or if something,
22:14 you know, I'm supposed to do for God in particular
22:17 and you take it into this discernment process
22:22 and then you end with contemplative prayer
22:25 which takes you off line and how are you going to hear
22:28 God's voice. Right. You know. So the discernment,
22:32 let's go back to that because that... now it's starting to
22:36 sound like a Ouija board kind of. Like do I do this,
22:42 or do I do that? Or do I... Not that, see again,
22:47 that fine line, because we do pray and ask God
22:50 do I do this, should I do that, should I, what should I do Lord?
22:54 What is your will for me?
22:55 But how does He speak to us? with His will.
23:00 Is it in a silent place. He has many ways. Right!
23:05 And it's usually not so silent. Right, right, right.
23:10 So these prayers for discernment, this exercise
23:16 for discernment, would you have to go into that
23:21 silence place first? How did that work?
23:24 No, you would do whatever the exercise is and I never
23:26 used that. So, there was some use of it.
23:29 So there was something that felt like you shouldn't?
23:31 Yeah, I would receive some of these and some of these I
23:33 just didn't feel good about. Interesting that I didn't hear
23:36 the voice of the Holy Spirit in all of it but I did it.
23:40 So that's not something that I really used,
23:42 there were several of the others that I didn't use.
23:43 But whatever the exercise, it's always ending with
23:49 entering the silence.
23:52 Hmm. And into that contemplative prayer to hear what God has to
23:56 say about whatever you did in your exercise.
24:01 Whatever came out of that space they would say.
24:06 It's interesting to me that in mysticism, like transcendental
24:12 meditation, the whole idea is empty your mind
24:16 so that it can be filled.
24:19 Um hum. And the question is, what's filling it?
24:24 With what. Because that was one of the things with Yoga.
24:30 You know Yoga is attached to Hinduism and you can't really
24:35 separate it and people say oh Yoga is fine,
24:38 and Yoga is just stretching and breathing, and no it's related..
24:42 You cannot detach Yoga from Hinduism, and that's mysticism.
24:48 And some would say, well what's wrong with taking from this
24:55 belief system...what's wrong with that?
24:58 If it brings me closed to God... Their god might be a million
25:02 gods like in the Hindu deal, but with us it's one God.
25:07 So what's wrong with taking some of what they do
25:11 and applying it to our situation.
25:13 What do you say to that?
25:15 Look at me as an example. "Don't do it."
25:17 Don't do it. You know God is light, He is truth
25:23 and there is no error or darkness in Him.
25:25 So who are we to then, take from the darkness
25:29 and add it into you, the light?
25:31 Come on. It takes away the light you know. Gray areas,
25:34 God is not gray in His truths.
25:37 That, that's so good. Satan is.
25:40 That's right, that's right.
25:41 When Satan gets a hold of something and at first it
25:44 seems ok and then it just takes you further and further away
25:47 from the truth and sometimes it's too late.
25:50 That is so true. God is light, in Him there is no darkness.
25:57 No darkness. Satan is just darkness,
26:00 he tries to have a little light in there just to mix you up...
26:04 He was the Light Bearer. That's right. So he knows.
26:06 That's right. He knows how to portray light,
26:08 but it is false light. It's false light.
26:10 Exactly. So with that, with taking a little bit from here
26:15 and there and all that, it's called syncretism right?
26:18 You take a little bit of this, a little bit of that
26:20 and you try to put it together and form it into something
26:26 that is Christian and it's not.
26:31 I read...there's a book called A Time of Departing
26:33 by Ray Younging, and he says that taking the...
26:42 trying to apply the principles of mysticism gives you
26:49 a different understanding of God, it gives you
26:53 their understanding of God.
26:56 I am so...that's well said and it's a great summary
26:59 because this whole movement is an attack on
27:02 the character of God, of Jesus.
27:05 How so? Let's talk about that okay.
27:08 How is this an attack on God? It all sounds so beautiful...
27:13 It seems like it's all about Jesus. Right.
27:16 But we can't... Jesus is a God of mercy and justice,
27:21 so He's just and He's mercy. He has a law and He is all love.
27:25 Right. And He has His law and that law is based
27:28 on His character. I mean it is a transcription
27:30 of His character and it's pure love.
27:33 Right. So it's how we love God and how we love one another.
27:36 So what spiritual formation does is, it's all about God,
27:42 it basically omits a lot of the prophecy,
27:46 it omits eventually parts of the law because that
27:52 gets in the way of just loving Jesus and so that destroys
28:00 His character, now you have half of the truth about God.
28:04 He's not just love, He is all love,
28:06 but He has other things too, so it omits part of
28:11 His character. So it kind of distorts who He is. Um hum.
28:16 Because if you leave out the justice part and it's just the
28:23 mercy part, that's not, I mean it's all, as you said,
28:28 it's all mixed with love but we need to have
28:33 the full picture of His character, not just... We do...
28:36 not just a part of His character.
28:38 Anything less is a lie.
28:40 And so now we have a whole movement that's based on a lie
28:43 and what are we presenting? What are we bringing people to?
28:47 Yes. How long were you involved in the whole...
28:51 Almost nine years.
28:53 Movement, because it is kind of a movement isn't it?
28:55 It's a movement.
28:57 How prevalent is it?
28:58 It's very prevalent, especially where I am,
29:01 it's very prevalent, but it's made a lot of inroads.
29:07 Yes, yes. We have different and we have to call it out
29:12 because that is what we have to do.
29:15 The Emergent Church, the one project, these are all
29:18 spiritual formation movements and we are not saying that
29:25 the people involved in these movements don't love the Lord.
29:29 Oh, no, they do. They are very sincere about what...
29:31 It's not about that, it's about error though.
29:34 Yes. Stephanie unpack a little bit more for us how
29:37 it's missing the mark, like the one project and
29:41 things like that, how is it just kind of missing the mark?
29:45 Well, whenever we uplift Jesus and Jesus only without
29:52 that complete picture of His character of love and mercy,
29:57 justice, we are misrepresenting His character,
30:01 which is no different than what Lucifer did in heaven.
30:06 Hmmm. Lucifer attacked God's character in heaven.
30:09 And so, this is just another attack on His character
30:14 leaving only love and then removing the doctrine of the
30:22 sanctuary, the 2300 years, the sanctification part.
30:30 It's just love and especially the investigative judgement,
30:35 there is where we lose the justice.
30:37 And yet there are people who don't know this and have no
30:44 impetus for change or allowing God to work
30:47 in their lives, the Holy Spirit to speak to them
30:49 and cleanse their lives.
30:51 We are supposed to be a people being prepared for Jesus'
30:57 second coming and He ultimately wants to reproduce His character
31:01 in us, Satan said He couldn't. Mmmm! And so this is the direct
31:07 attack on His character and what He wants to do,
31:11 if he can take more of His people with him
31:13 then that hurts Jesus even more.
31:16 So we have a choice, and the spiritual formation movement
31:22 doesn't give a complete picture so that people can make
31:27 a choice, an informed choice.
31:29 So is there a concept within that whole paradigm?
31:37 Is there a concept of sin and redemption and that
31:43 kind of thing? Is there the cross?
31:46 Are those things emphasized in spiritual formation or no?
31:51 I can't speak for everybody because everybody
31:54 practices things a little differently.
31:57 But, justification is certainly uplifted and taught,
32:04 sanctification is kind of a little more difficult
32:07 subject, people don't want to talk about that so much
32:10 because that incorporates other doctrine and so...
32:15 you're not getting... Which is the work a lifetime,
32:18 nobody wants to talk about that part.
32:20 It's true, and so we have pieces of the exercises like
32:25 Lectio Divina where you read a passage and whatever pops up
32:31 or stands out to you, then you go back and read those
32:35 words again.
32:36 And so what happens is, we are focusing on a few words
32:40 in the passage, and leaving off the rest.
32:43 We are also losing that comparative study,
32:46 line upon line, precept upon precept.
32:48 Here a little. There a little.
32:51 Which reveals and confirms truth.
32:53 So when we leave those pieces off, we are left with just
32:59 little things that really don't make a big difference
33:04 and they certainly don't reflect the true character of Christ.
33:08 That, the Lectio Divina... Lectio Divina, sacred reading.
33:12 So it's reading from the Bible and catching a phrase
33:18 or a word and then meditating on that.
33:23 Um hum. Then you take it into the silence, sit her down
33:26 and contemplate.
33:27 How did you...ok, so you were in this for nine years.
33:32 Almost.
33:33 How did you get out of it?
33:35 You know, it wasn't a big ah ha, it was just really God
33:40 intervening as life got busy, err.
33:44 Um, my father, my dad who I grew up with knowing as my dad
33:48 had a really severe stroke, he could move one hand
33:52 and that was it.
33:54 So he was placed in a nursing home by our house
33:56 and I would travel back and forth from California frequently
34:00 to spend time with him.
34:01 I was in grad school going to school, I was also working
34:06 full time, so as you can imagine,
34:08 I didn't have a lot of time to put forth maybe to the
34:13 exercises towards the end but I was still maintaining
34:16 the contemplative prayer component because that for me
34:20 was my go to, it was, I could get away from all of the
34:24 hustle and bustle.
34:26 Umm. And then I got married and I just didn't have the time
34:33 much to do it any more.
34:34 Plus I was picking up again spiritual, not spiritual but
34:37 Spirit of Prophecy and I loved those years before.
34:42 But another sneaky thing about this movement is
34:46 they don't take away directly the Spirit of Prophecy,
34:50 they give you other offerings, so that here read this,
34:54 here read this.
34:55 These are all of the spiritual formation writers
34:57 and so Spirit of Prophecy gets displaced.
35:01 Umm. And I was at a research seminar just a few weeks ago
35:04 at Loma Linda, and one of the researchers presented
35:11 some statistics and it showed that reading Ellen White
35:16 um, actually helps in memory retention and understanding
35:22 of doctrine.
35:24 So look what happens when we displace those readings,
35:27 it's easy to fall away from things.
35:31 Even though everything is in the Bible,
35:32 it's just beautiful added light, you know, so.
35:36 It's a...So as I began reading her writings again
35:42 I lost interest in the other books,
35:45 they just didn't really make sense any more,
35:47 I tried to read them, they wouldn't resonate with me.
35:51 God had a bigger plan, so He was moving me out before
35:54 I was really aware.
35:56 It wasn't until I finished school in 2012,
36:02 even though I wasn't practicing any of it anymore,
36:05 in 2012 I had a little more life.
36:08 And my sister came to visit and she had been to the
36:13 book store, the ABC store and she prayed before she went in.
36:16 She said if anybody in the family needs anything,
36:19 just lead me to it.
36:20 And as she was at the check out counter, she saw the
36:23 Omega Rebellion on display, it wasn't on sale,
36:27 she didn't know anything about it, she knew nothing
36:29 about spiritual formation and she picked up the book
36:32 and she's like I don't know what this is, but I have to
36:34 get it. Wow. I'm supposed to get it.
36:36 So when she came home that evening, I'm like,
36:40 let me see your loot, so I'm looking at all the books
36:43 and I went right to that book, and I didn't put it down
36:48 until it was finished.
36:49 What did it talk about?
36:50 Well, Rick Howard was also in mysticism,
36:54 but he wasn't in the Christian type, he was in mysticism
36:58 and it had talked about how he had come out
37:00 and he talked about contemplative prayer
37:02 in different pieces in the meditation part
37:05 and the book really spoke to me on a lot of levels
37:10 I still had to be convinced a little bit more about
37:13 contemplative prayer. Um hum.
37:14 I'm like oh no, it's his experience because he was
37:16 eastern mysticism, that's not mine, I was Christian.
37:20 Right, right, right.
37:21 I was based on the Bible.
37:22 Right. So, um, about six months or a year later,
37:27 I came across Howard Path's book, I think it's Howard Path,
37:33 on contemplative prayer, "The Dangers of Contemplative Prayer,"
37:36 wow, that sealed the deal right there.
37:39 It's like ok God gives you what you need when you need it
37:42 and sometimes too much light at once can shut us down.
37:47 So our eyes have to have time to adjust sometimes to
37:52 what we are seeing in the additional lights.
37:56 So for me, it just took a little bit of time,
37:58 but boy when I was out, I was out,
38:00 and I was fine with it until it started coming closer to me
38:10 and my church, and I started seeing it.
38:13 What happened?
38:14 Well, I was at a prayer seminar at one of our churches
38:19 and the presenter who was also Adventist presented
38:22 and the first thing he did, was he played a hymn,
38:28 I don't remember which one it was, but it was a beautiful hymn,
38:30 and then he looked at the people in there and he said
38:34 now, what came up for you for that?
38:37 And that is a big spiritual formation piece. Ummm.
38:42 Playing a song, a hymn or something,
38:46 and then asking the question, now what comes up for you
38:49 with this? What did this bring out for you?
38:52 Uh, so for me, my red flag went up and I am like ok,
38:56 I am just going to wait this out a little bit,
38:58 and the next thing I know, he's describing the affects
39:02 of prayer and the very feeling words.
39:05 Warm, peacefulness, and it's great prayer can do that,
39:12 but there is more to prayer than just that.
39:15 You know, where is the spirit of conviction?
39:18 Right. Conviction doesn't feel good, it's necessary,
39:22 you know, it brings us to repentance.
39:23 So that is also left off contemplative prayer.
39:28 With this off line, the Holy Spirit can't come in
39:32 and convict and cleanse His people. Um hum.
39:35 So sanctification gets impaired, impeded.
39:39 So, ok, so then he goes on to describe things,
39:43 and then he brought up a research finding in which
39:48 he said that priests and nuns who spent more time in prayer
39:53 had more job satisfaction.
39:54 I'm like, umm. Hmmm.
39:58 I was sitting on the edge of my seat trying to keep my
40:01 shouts down?
40:02 You're antenna went up like BOING!, that's how mine is too.
40:05 For New Age stuff, it's like BOING! Yes!
40:07 Oh no! Once you've been around it or in it
40:11 you see if coming from a mile away. Yes you do.
40:13 And people are like how did you see that?
40:15 What do you see? I can't describe it, it is just there.
40:17 You just know it. You do. You do.
40:19 The Lord gives you that discernment. He does.
40:21 He gives you that gift.
40:22 So after the seminar was coming to an end and they had a
40:27 Q and A session, I asked him, I said so you're research that
40:30 you presented, was that based on Biblical prayer,
40:34 traditional Biblical prayer or contemplative prayer?
40:36 and his face got really red and he kind of stumbled
40:41 and he said contemplative prayer, and he
40:43 picks the next question. I'm like... Um hum.
40:47 So, um, it was things like that and some friends of mine who
40:52 also attended a local church, there church was just being
40:56 ravaged by it, it has torn them apart,
40:59 the membership is 50% down.
41:01 It destroyed friendships, families, it's devastating,
41:06 this movement can be devastating.
41:08 How so? How can it be... Again how can something that's
41:14 packaged so beautifully, be so devastating?
41:18 Well, going back to truth and error
41:23 Whenever there is error, even though there is truth
41:27 we don't compromise the truth and except error.
41:30 So when error is being taught, usually what happens is,
41:34 it's going to leave off the truth and more error will be
41:39 presented over time, it's a slippery slope.
41:43 So when people start seeing what's going on
41:45 and want to protect God's character, His full character,
41:51 they start coming up against this, then it can
41:56 divide families.
41:58 In the situation, one of the family members, it was a
42:01 pastor, and so you have this church and there is family
42:06 against family because that's how it happens
42:10 And look at that, Satan has just ruined God's character
42:12 and he's destroyed families and he's destroyed
42:15 spiritual families.
42:16 So, not that these things can't be healed, you know all things
42:22 can be healed when brought before the Lord,
42:25 and people who have soft hearts for God and the tapping of
42:30 the Holy Spirit in our lives but without that, it's irreparable.
42:37 Yeah, yeah. It's, if we are on that path of error,
42:44 and someone tries to warn us, if you don't have...
42:49 if you are not praying to God and asking Him to help you
42:54 to see, your whole flesh can rise up, you can get very angry
42:59 about it, it can cause these rifts and that's what the devil
43:03 wants anyway. He does. To divide.
43:06 He doesn't care if it's truth or error, if he can just cause
43:08 problems, he's happy with that. That's right. That's right.
43:12 So you went to this seminar, you asked the presenter
43:17 and he did say contemplative prayer, so you knew, Bingo
43:22 this is, he's trying to bring this into my church.
43:25 Um hum. Is that what... what had you right?
43:29 What had you right this far? That was a big step.
43:31 Ok, alright. I went to... I think we have a picture
43:35 of your book too. Oh, you do.
43:36 Silence No More. Yeah.
43:38 I went to the pastor of the church and there was disbelief.
43:46 Whenever we don't know about something,
43:48 we don't tend to really believe things so I think it was the
43:53 deaf ears and no place to go to share my concerns
43:58 that God created this. Yes.
44:03 So He actually laid on your heart...He did...
44:06 To write this book. It was never in my thought.
44:08 How long did it take you to start? February of 2016.
44:11 Ok. So it was a year ago.
44:13 Right. Yeah. And what happened to you
44:16 while you were writing it?
44:18 Well to start it, I woke up one morning with these words
44:22 in my head, Silence No More, and I am like what is this?
44:26 So...It's a great title by the way.
44:29 It's a God given title. Thank you, I'm glad you like it.
44:33 It speaks on two levels but I ran it by my husband
44:37 and I said, what do you think that is? and he said
44:39 I think you are supposed to write a book.
44:42 And I'm like, I think so.
44:43 So, I was like I'm not prepared for this, so I prayed about it
44:49 and my fleece was, if Elder Cox said yes he would write the
44:54 forward, then I would know that I was supposed to
44:57 write a book.
44:58 So, when I got to church the next night,
44:59 I asked him, I said, so I think I'm supposed to
45:02 write a book.
45:03 I said, if I write the book, would you agree to write
45:05 the Forward, and he says, well, after you write it...
45:09 Accountability right. That's a good answer, right.
45:14 Because if I can, I will, I'm like OK.
45:17 So for me that was a yes, be- cause I figure what God starts,
45:22 He finishes and He has an idea.
45:24 So, there were many confirmations along the way,
45:26 but that was how the book became a book.
45:30 Tell us about some of the confirmations,
45:31 we have a little time. Okay.
45:33 Alright, well, my cousin David who took the picture
45:38 for the cover, posted this picture on LinkedIn,
45:43 and he doesn't really do that.
45:46 He's Vice President of an electrical company
45:48 and they do jobs. I've never seen him post one job.
45:51 He posted this picture and I was like...
45:54 I couldn't get my mind off of it.
45:55 I picked up my phone and looked at this picture during the day,
45:58 it was so beautiful, and I'm like, I have to have
46:00 that picture.
46:02 I'm like, can I have this picture?
46:03 I was going to put it in the living room or something,
46:05 and then I got the title.
46:07 And I'm like, I think that picture is for this book.
46:11 Because it totally...just the picture...
46:14 A picture is worth a thousand words, right. Right.
46:16 It's a sermon in itself.
46:18 Let's put the picture back up with the book cover.
46:20 Explain it to us. Ok.
46:22 So, as you can see the beautifully lighted columns,
46:25 it's dark around it, but then there is this beautiful light,
46:28 and for me, I was just drawn, I wanted to go sit there,
46:32 read my Bible and pray. Um hum.
46:34 But if you notice, past the center, down the corridor,
46:39 the light dissipates, it gets darker. Hmm.
46:43 Right. Just like Spiritual Formation, it draws you,
46:45 it's beautiful, it's full of light, seeming, right,
46:48 and then the further you go, the deeper you go,
46:50 the darker it gets, until there is no light left.
46:53 Wow! That's beautiful.
46:56 That is beau... I love the cover, I mean,
47:00 I just think it has that kind of drawing, compelling,
47:05 you know, capability. I just thought it was really good.
47:09 CQ did that. I know CQ, she is amazing.
47:13 We have to give CQ a shout out because she is just amazing.
47:17 She is an amazing woman. She has been terrific
47:18 through this whole thing. Yes.
47:20 So, you decided to write the book, what happened to you
47:24 when you were writing it?
47:26 When I was writing it... I know the enemy is not
47:27 going to say Ohhh, she's writing a book, yeah,
47:30 I mean, I know... He attacked me from the
47:33 He attacked my home, he attacked finances,
47:37 things started breaking down that should not have been
47:41 breaking down. Um, attacked my health, thank goodness
47:48 God persevered, I mean, you know, He overcame that.
47:51 But for quite a few months I was left wondering,
47:55 do I have cancer, do I not?
47:57 And so it was just amazing what the lengths that
48:05 Satan goes to, to discourage you, but every time something
48:10 would come up, my hands were to the plow.
48:12 I'm like Lord, this is your message and it's going to go out
48:15 if that's what You want.
48:16 So, people look at Jesus on everything else. Yes.
48:21 And I will tell you, he would show up and show out in so many
48:24 ways, but when I finished the book, I sent it to Bobby,
48:28 Bobby Davis here. Thank you Bobby.
48:31 Shout out to Bobby Davis, we love him too.
48:33 It took this book not once but twice,
48:35 after having all the painstaking editing of the first one, so,
48:39 Um, yes, amazing.
48:41 I sent it to him and immediately his computer quit working.
48:46 He had to offload all of his programs and reload everything
48:51 and then it worked mostly.
48:53 It still turned all red, with all underlined,
48:56 you couldn't get any of it out, it was crazy the things
48:58 that were happening.
48:59 But we worked with that document and then from there
49:02 I sent it to Steve Wholburg, I thought I was finished,
49:06 then I thought, maybe I can get an indorsement
49:08 from him. Um hum. And he's like, this is great,
49:10 so he says, you have shown me, you've told me that it's here
49:14 now show me where it is.
49:16 I didn't want to go down that road. (Laughter)
49:19 I am not that kind of person.
49:20 And he's like no, no, these people have this information
49:23 out there if you say it's there, then just bring it forward.
49:26 He says it's not you, this is their work,
49:28 their websites, their publications, I'm like okay,
49:31 that makes sense.
49:32 Because there is a reason that God had me write my testimony.
49:35 Right. If it weren't here, there would be no need.
49:38 Right, you know. The whole book, from the beginning,
49:41 for me was written in mind with Three Angels Message
49:44 and calling people out. God loves you, come out.
49:48 This is not the time, come out.
49:50 Leave off these practices. Yes, yes.
49:51 So I sent it to him and then I had to go back into writing,
49:57 so I went back into writing and researching
49:59 and then I sent it to CQ for the formatting and her computer
50:05 crashed, never to be revived.
50:07 She had to get another computer. Wow! Um hum.
50:12 Yes. And then when she formatted it and sent it to
50:16 Remnant Publications who published it.
50:20 Um hum. They had the biggest storm that they've had in
50:22 50 years. Trees were down and they lost their electricity.
50:26 Rudy was working with flashlights and on a backup
50:31 generator. Wow. And even when he got it, he challenged me
50:37 for more, which was, there is a reason you accepted this
50:40 invitation and he said you need to dig deeper
50:43 because there is something more there.
50:45 And I'm like, I don't think so, you are barking up the
50:47 wrong tree. So, I'm like this is the baby that just won't
50:51 be birthed, right. So, I just really prayed about it
50:55 long and hard, and so about a week later,
50:58 I was sitting in church and Boom!
51:01 There it came. There's the reason, the big reason
51:08 that we shared earlier, not being able to pray with my
51:11 grandfather. Yes. So that was a driving force.
51:15 And then my whole family background and the dismantling
51:17 and remantling and... God is good, He uses all these
51:21 things that we have to close this family now.
51:22 I love my family, we were never not close. Yeah.
51:24 But now it's based on truth.
51:28 Yes. And there is a lot of love that can be infused.
51:30 Yes. And lived in when that happens.
51:33 He is a restorer. He is. He's a restorer.
51:37 All things work together for good for those
51:40 that love the Lord.
51:41 So what do you want people to take away from the book?
51:45 What ideas and thoughts and things like that do you want
51:49 people to have after they have read this book?
51:52 To really focus on what our present truth is for today.
52:00 Because it's in knowing these truths and praying for that
52:04 discernment that is our safe guard.
52:07 We're told to the Law and the Testimony,
52:10 and if they don't agree, there is no light in them.
52:14 So, it's not one or the other, it's both.
52:17 And we really need to be grounded in our beliefs
52:22 and what the Bible teaches for these last days.
52:25 Because these are perilous times that are upon us
52:31 we're seeing a lot of things happening a lot of things
52:34 shaking and starting and this movement is very dangerous,
52:37 it is stealth, but God will give you eyes to see,
52:40 if you pray for eyes to see. Um hum. Um hum.
52:44 Where at this point...Are you going to churches and talking
52:51 about this movement? Are you promoting the book by...
52:54 going to different churches and explaining what
52:59 the movement is, because you are kind of
53:01 a lone voice out there. I am.
53:05 There are others who are not pro-contemplative prayer but
53:08 you were in it. And see, to me that makes
53:12 a huge difference, when you've been a part of it
53:14 and you've come out from it, verses someone who has never
53:18 been a part of it who can just talk about it from a distance.
53:22 Right. You've been in it...I've been in it...
53:24 so you have a voice...
53:26 God is starting to give me a voice...
53:28 ...You have a voice. I do.
53:30 And I'm just starting to learn to use it.
53:33 During the writing process, I was challenged to keep this
53:37 very close because of the content, and it was very
53:40 important to do that.
53:41 So I wasn't really talking about it except with some family
53:45 and a few friends.
53:47 Now, I mean the book was only published Monday before last,
53:52 and this is my first time to talk about it.
53:54 Oh, praise the Lord.
53:55 So I wanted to thank you, but I am learning.
53:58 It's like right now I am crawling when it comes to
54:01 walk...to talking, and I have a website...
54:04 Yes, and we need to put that up...And so...
54:06 What is it? It's:
54:09 And there is a place on there for people who,
54:11 if there churches would like for me to come,
54:14 I'm willing to come and share my testimony,
54:16 offer whatever support I can in that and they can just
54:21 contact me through there. So soon maybe some speaking.
54:25 silencenomore.net.
54:27 And where can they find the book?
54:28 The Remnant Publications has it for sale,
54:31 and it's also on my website.
54:33 But if, when you go to purchase the book it will take you
54:36 right back to Remnant for the purchasing.
54:38 I think this is going to be a very interesting journey
54:42 for you. I know when you come out from something like
54:46 you did from this, I did from the New Age Medicine thing,
54:50 you, again, you have an antenna for it, so know right away
54:56 when you hear something that remotely smacks of that
55:00 you want to say something...We do. You have to say something
55:05 about it.
55:06 So we are just thankful that you have stepped up to the plate
55:10 and you decided to do this, and the book is hot off the press,
55:14 so you really need to get this book, it's really good,
55:17 it explains what this is and you might not think now
55:22 that, you know, my church isn't, doesn't have that,
55:25 or I don't have a problem with that or whatever.
55:28 But you would be amazed at how it's coming into the churches
55:33 and seminaries. Oh yes. There are Wisdom Centers or
55:40 Learning Centers, or Spiritual Centers, or whatever...
55:44 There are some centers around that are teaching these
55:49 techniques. These are techniques that get you into
55:55 Mysticism. They take you into Mysticism and um...
55:59 What would you say in one minute to the person
56:03 who is caught up in that, who doesn't really think
56:08 that there is anything wrong with it.
56:09 Look into... Well you don't have a camera, so just give me..
56:13 I was going to say, look into that camera,
56:16 but just look at me...but tell, pretend that I am a person who's
56:20 caught up into that, what would you say to me?
56:23 I would say, I've been where you are, I understand,
56:30 um, I don't judge, I care, I care for you,
56:38 and I care where this is taking you.
56:40 Um, pray not the Contemplative prayer, but pray and read your
56:47 Bible, go back to reading your Bible and ask God to show you,
56:53 He will show you.
56:55 Thank you! Thank you so much, what a blessing you are Stephanie.
56:58 Thank you so much... It's my pleasure...
57:00 for being with us on Urban Report..
57:01 I Timothy 4:1 says, "Now the spirit speaketh
57:06 expressly, that in the latter times, some shall depart
57:11 from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits
57:14 and doctrines of devils."
57:16 And verse 16 says, "Take heed unto thyself and unto the
57:21 doctrine. Continue in them for in doing this, thou shall
57:26 both save thy self, and them that hear thee."
57:30 Don't be deceived, ask the Holy Spirit for help,
57:34 He will guide you into all truth.
57:38 Don't be afraid if you are caught up into something,
57:41 just ask God to open your eyes.
57:44 For a long time when I was in the New Age Medicine
57:47 I was resistant to it, but the Lord loved me and
57:54 He loves Stephanie enough to take us out of that.
57:57 Thank you for joining us.
57:59 Join us next time, cause you know what?
58:01 It just wouldn't be the same without YOU.


Revised 2017-11-13