Participants:
Series Code: UBR
Program Code: UBR000249A
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00:01 Have you ever struggled with relationship issues?
00:03 Well, stay tuned to find out 00:04 how you can become a professional lover. 00:06 My name is Jason Bradley, 00:08 and you're watching Urban Report. 00:32 Hello and welcome to Urban Report. 00:34 My guest today is Patrice Conwell. 00:36 And she is the co-author of the devotional entitled 00:39 "Becoming a Professional Lover". 00:42 Welcome to Urban Report, Patrice. 00:43 Thank you, Jason. Good to be here. 00:45 Good. 00:46 Well, first off, this is not our normal set, 00:49 but you know, we do things differently from time to time. 00:51 So we're gonna... Change is good sometimes. 00:53 Absolutely. 00:54 Enjoy and embrace the variety, right. 00:56 There you go. All right. 00:57 So we have a short amount of time to get in. 01:00 I just really want to jump into the meat... 01:02 Start into it. 01:04 Now you were the co-author of this book entitled 01:08 "Becoming a Professional Lover". 01:11 Yes, I co-wrote that with my parents, 01:13 Claude Jr. and Jocelyn Thomas 01:16 who have long been relationship counselors. 01:19 What are your early childhood memories? 01:22 But, well, actually before we go into that, 01:24 I just want to establish 01:25 the fact that I call you Aunt Patty 01:27 'cause I'm not gonna call you Patrice 01:28 for the rest of this program. 01:30 All right, whatever makes you comfortable. 01:31 Okay, okay. 01:33 So what are your early childhood memories 01:35 of your parents? 01:36 Well, my parents, 01:38 just how they got together was completely God ordained. 01:42 That's what we call it, God ordained. 01:45 And so people who know that and know the story 01:50 know that God has been at the center of their relationship 01:54 from the very beginning. 01:55 When He put them together 01:57 and He has been there over the last 52 years. 02:01 And so that's what I have gotten 02:03 from watching them as an insider in our household. 02:07 You know, my mom is a PK, 02:10 my dad has always been interested in theology, 02:13 even though that's not what he ultimately went into, 02:15 but he did become 02:16 an ordained minister later on in life. 02:19 But spirituality was at the foundation of our home 02:24 and at the foundation of their relationship. 02:26 So that's what I saw all my life. 02:27 Yes. 02:28 Well, since we are family, 02:30 I've experienced that too going over there. 02:32 I've seen how their 02:36 relationship is centered around Christ. 02:38 And we actually have a clip of them 02:41 telling how they first met. 02:44 Great. 02:45 So let's let our viewers see their interaction. 02:48 Okay. 02:50 I was the youth leader for the church 02:51 in Buffalo, New York, where dad was the pastor. 02:54 I was working in New York as a public health nurse, 02:57 but I was also the youth leader, 02:59 and my friend Pearl was there. 03:01 I heard about Claude, 03:03 and we had a lot of fun talking about the possibility 03:07 that he might be somebody 03:09 that we would be interested, and I would be interested in. 03:12 And so we decided to go, 03:13 and we decided to go looking good. 03:15 She was single, and I was single, and we said, 03:18 "We're going to go with our catch 'em suits. 03:24 My Aunt Thelma and Uncle called me, 03:26 "Why don't you go?" 03:30 And I was not particular about it. 03:31 I wasn't going to go. 03:34 But it was too recent for me. 03:37 Then I knew a lot of people who were going to be there, 03:39 we'll have you there, 03:40 I wouldn't know, and all of that. 03:41 So I didn't want to answer a whole lot of questions 03:46 or hang on a whole lot of condolences. 03:51 So I made my mind, I wasn't going, 03:55 but my chaplain wanted to go. 03:59 He was a kid too eager to go. 04:02 Then I finally said, "Okay." Then I drove him down. 04:06 Jackie had married his teen heartthrob 04:08 Carol Laverne Jones in September, 1953. 04:13 Tragically, she passed away on October 23, 1964, 04:18 leaving him and three children, 04:21 Jackie Jr., 10 years old, 04:23 Brian, 7 years old, 04:26 and Pattie, 3 years old. 04:28 Family members of Joe 04:30 felt Jackie made a good catch for Joe. 04:32 So the plan was to introduce them to each other 04:34 during Youth Congress. 04:37 So that Sabbath evening, 04:40 one of my classmates was doing a concert there at the hall, 04:44 and I still had on my outfit from Sabbath. 04:48 And I found myself walking down the hall, 04:54 down one of the aisles of the auditorium, 04:57 and Robert's aunt, we called her... 05:00 Aunt Francis. 05:01 Aunt Francis, she saw me, and she said, 05:05 "Oh, Joe, have you met Jackie?" 05:08 I said, "No, dear." 05:09 And she grabbed my hand 05:11 and snatched me with great zeal. 05:14 And she starts marching me to wherever you were. 05:18 And on the way to wherever you were sitting, 05:22 "Joe, now this is a man 05:24 that's going to be your husband." 05:26 That was the voice that said to me clearly, 05:29 out of the blue. 05:30 It wasn't a startling effect, no one else heard it but I did. 05:35 And so I went on to meet the man. 05:37 And Aunt Francis ran up, 05:42 "Jackie, I have somebody I want you to meet." 05:46 And when he got up, he stepped back. 05:50 Beautiful young lady there on dressed in red bow hair, 05:54 and black patterned leather shoes, 05:59 beautiful hat, black hat. 06:02 And that's it? Pretty much. 06:05 They went their separate ways 06:07 and back to their separate lives. 06:09 But obviously, it didn't end there. 06:12 Oh, no, dad was doing a little thinking. 06:17 Wow. Right. Isn't that cute? 06:19 Absolutely. 06:20 One of the things that I love about Uncle Jackie 06:22 is he goes after what he wants. 06:24 All right. I mean, cool. Yes. 06:26 But still going ahead. 06:27 Oh, yeah, very smooth, and he acts fast too. 06:32 Real fast. 06:33 I mean, because from the time that they met 06:35 till the time that they got married was six months. 06:38 Six months. Wow! Six months. 06:40 So you know, the Lord really had to tell her 06:43 that he was the man 'cause if I were a 26-year-old, 06:47 looking at a man with three kids, yeah. 06:50 Yeah, Jesus would have to tell me that too. 06:52 Absolutely. 06:53 And how many years have they been married now? 06:54 Fifty two years. Fifty two years. 06:57 Yeah, in fact, that clip came from a video 07:00 that I put together, 07:02 just kind of giving the whole 07:05 trajectory of their relationship, 07:07 their beginning to their 50th year so. 07:10 Wow. Fifty two years. 07:12 And that's after six months, 07:15 they got married in six months. 07:16 Right. 07:18 And then 52 years later here they are. 07:19 Exactly, exactly. 07:21 So really, you know, that's not something 07:23 that you just tell people 07:25 that that's how they should operate. 07:27 You really have to know that God is leading you 07:30 in that direction in order to work that fast. 07:34 Absolutely. 07:35 So what inspired you to write this book? 07:38 Well, a couple of things. 07:40 First, I was putting together 07:43 their 50th wedding anniversary, my brothers and I, 07:46 but I was kind of the lead in actually planning the event 07:49 and putting it together. 07:50 And I asked my parents to give me 50 tips 07:55 from their own marriage that we could share 07:58 with people who were coming to celebrate their 50 years. 08:01 And I took those tips and created a bookmark called 08:06 "Joe and Jackie's 50 ways to keep your lover". 08:08 Okay. 08:09 And I gave that out as kind of a party favor 08:12 after the event was over to the people 08:14 as a thank you for coming and celebrating with us. 08:17 And a few days later, 08:20 another person who had been there 08:21 called my mother 08:23 and asked if she had any more of the bookmarks 08:25 because she wanted to give it to her nephew 08:28 who's, you know, considering getting married. 08:31 And so she got a few of those kind of calls, and of course, 08:34 that started me to thinking if people 08:36 are interested in these tips, 08:38 then how could we take those tips 08:41 and share them to a wider audience 08:44 because as I said before, 08:45 my parents have spent years, 08:49 a lot of their married lives teaching other couples 08:52 and singles how to create, how to maintain, 08:55 how to nurture strong relationships. 08:57 So this also then became 09:00 kind of a way of creating a legacy, 09:03 a lasting legacy of the work that they had been doing. 09:07 And then my last, 09:09 the last thing that propelled me to do this 09:12 is I wanted to give my dad something to do, 09:15 he has had some health challenges, 09:19 started on dialysis a year ago. 09:21 And so I wanted to help keep his mind working 09:26 and keep him energized. 09:27 And so it became a way for doing that. 09:30 Yes. 09:31 One of the things about Uncle Jack, too, is like, 09:34 as long as I've known him, he's been brilliant, 09:37 like he is a brilliant sharp guy. 09:40 Absolutely. Yes. 09:42 Now me being a young man myself... 09:45 Yes, a young single man. 09:47 Yes, a young single man, I do have an interest though. 09:50 Which means it's a good thing that you're talking to. 09:52 That's right. 09:54 So what would you tell a single young man, 09:59 such as myself, like, 10:01 some of the principles that may be found in this book, 10:03 what advice would you give to...? 10:06 Well, see, I don't have to give advice 10:07 because it's all in that book. 10:09 That's true. 10:10 See, this book, then, 10:12 for a single person, the book itself 10:14 is put in the context of a marital relationship. 10:18 But when you talk about loving the way God loves, 10:23 that's any relationship. 10:24 So there are principles in there 10:26 for any type of relationship, okay. 10:30 But as a young man with an interest 10:33 and just as a young man. 10:35 Single man, single woman, okay, 10:38 this is a training manual, 10:40 how many couples wish they actually had some tips 10:46 and steps to read, and to study, 10:50 and to start practicing before getting married. 10:55 They're gonna be a lot of people, hopefully, 10:56 couples who get this book 10:58 like my husband and I have been married almost 25 years. 11:02 But we're going through this book ourselves 11:04 because there's always something to learn, 11:07 there's always something to tweak, 11:08 there's always something to do better, you know. 11:11 And so how fortunate for you 11:14 to be able to have this training manual 11:17 that you can begin now, 11:19 going through each week's tips, 11:22 and doing the assignments. 11:24 And really understanding what it means 11:27 preparing yourself for what it means to love 11:31 a spouse the way God loves us. 11:34 Oh, man. Yeah, this is... 11:36 This book is packed with excellent tips, 11:38 I was looking through it, 11:40 and I really love how it's structured. 11:42 Touch on the structure of this book? 11:44 Sure. 11:45 Well, as I said, I asked them for 50 tips. 11:48 And it was my husband, 11:50 we were talking about this idea, 11:52 this book concept who suggested, 11:54 "Well, why don't we make it a devotional?" 11:56 And I was like, "Okay, that's really cool." 11:57 Because again, 11:59 we want Jesus at the center of the relationship. 12:01 And so if you're making it a devotional, 12:03 then you're applying spiritual principles 12:07 and biblical knowledge to each tip. 12:10 So with 50 tips though, 12:12 we couldn't make it a daily devotional. 12:14 Yeah. Right. 12:15 So I thought, "Well, you know, if we just two more tips, 12:19 we can have a weekly devotional." 12:21 And that's how we came up with the concept 12:23 of the weekly devotional. 12:24 And that actually works 12:26 because you have one tip a week. 12:29 You have a week, you know, 12:32 to read the tip and then study the tip. 12:36 Okay. 12:38 The each week ends with a homework assignment. 12:41 Okay. 12:43 That's true to fashion of my parents 12:45 who taught couples through workshops, and seminars, 12:50 and then also in private counseling 12:53 that they would do in their home. 12:55 They taught couples how to do, you know, 12:59 different things to try to nurture, to maintain, 13:04 to fix their relationships. 13:05 And so in like fashion, you have a homework assignment. 13:10 So you're not just reading the devotional for the day 13:14 but you are actually studying further in God's Word, okay. 13:19 And then in other spiritual themed resources 13:22 that sometimes we give in the homework assignment, 13:25 and you're coming to your own knowledge, 13:29 and then practicing what you've learned. 13:32 So it's not for the faint of heart, you know, it... 13:36 Biased I might sound, it's a good read, 13:38 it's a simple read, it's an easy read. 13:41 But there's much more to it than just that. 13:43 So what you're telling is basically 13:45 you have to be intentional like, 13:47 when you pick this book up, 13:50 you want to read the content, do the assignment, 13:55 be intentional, which you should be intentional 13:58 if you're pursuing anybody, or if you're with somebody, 14:01 if you're married, you're still supposed to be 14:03 pursuing your husband or your wife. 14:06 And that kind of speaks to the title, 14:09 Becoming a Professional Lover. That was my next question. 14:12 That's a pretty provocative title. 14:14 Absolutely, absolutely. Absolutely. 14:17 It came from my dad 14:20 calling himself a professional lover. 14:22 He would, you know, 14:23 start off in the seminars and say, 14:25 "My name is Claude Thomas Jr. and I'm a professional lover." 14:29 Oh, and the guys, you know, oh, yeah, man, 14:31 you know, he's a professional lover. 14:33 And your automatic thought is, 14:35 "Oh, he's got swag, he understands, you know, 14:38 how to woe a woman and charm," and all that. 14:41 But that's not really what it is, it's really, 14:44 you know, what does it take to become 14:45 a professional at anything. 14:48 It takes time, it takes study, 14:51 it takes practice, it takes mastery of the skills. 14:55 So when you study in school 14:56 to become a professional in your career, 14:59 you know, that's what you have to do 15:01 to become professional. 15:03 So you have to do those same things 15:06 to be a professional lover 15:07 to learn how to love God's way, okay. 15:12 And that's not just about your physical prowess. 15:16 Yes. Okay. 15:17 With the chemistry between the two of you, 15:19 it goes way deeper than that. 15:21 And so, the becoming is because it takes time, 15:27 a long time. 15:28 Okay, this is a resource 15:31 that will never stop being a resource 15:33 because my parents married 52 years 15:36 are in a different phase of life now with, 15:39 you know, the illness 15:40 and my mom being a primary health care giver for my dad, 15:45 they've got to go back to this book sometimes 15:47 and look at some principles when they're butting heads 15:50 or whatever the case may be and go. 15:52 Okay, wait a minute, you know. 15:54 Here's a principle 15:55 that we need to practice right now, you know. 15:58 And so it never will stop 16:01 being a good resource for people and relationships. 16:05 It's like the gift that keeps on giving. 16:06 A gift that keeps on giving, 16:08 and I think that's what I love about it the most. 16:10 You know, this is something 16:12 that should not just sit on your shelf. 16:14 You don't go through it once. 16:16 You know, I mean think about it again, 16:18 let's go to our careers. 16:19 You know, I was a teacher 16:20 at a university level for 20 years. 16:23 You know, in your career, 16:24 I'm always doing professional development. 16:26 Yeah, continuing it. Continuing it, you know. 16:30 And when you have certain credentials, 16:32 they require that, you know, every so often, 16:35 you're going to seminars, you're going to workshops, 16:37 you're looking at the trends, you're keeping up with 16:39 what's going on in your discipline. 16:41 So I still have, you know, 16:44 books from when I was in school 16:46 or even the books that I used to teach from 16:48 because you're always having to refer back to them. 16:51 This is no different, you know. 16:53 And just like in our Christian walk, 16:55 this is no different. 16:56 You have to go back to it every day, every day, 16:59 and reread those principles, and remind yourself. 17:03 And I mean so it... 17:04 Sanctification of the work of a lifetime. 17:05 There you go. 17:07 So I love the idea of that for this book as well. 17:09 Man, this is a power packed book. 17:12 Now, is there any other benefits 17:15 or any other things that go along with this book? 17:18 Well, there is a workbook. Okay. 17:20 Okay, and that's the teacher in me. 17:22 Okay, you can't help. Okay, you got the workbook. 17:24 Okay, I can't help it 17:25 but since we gave homework assignments, 17:27 I thought that it might be helpful 17:30 to facilitate that, you know, 17:32 not everybody has learned 17:34 how to study the Bible, not everybody has learned, 17:38 you know, how to apply biblical principles 17:41 that you might read. 17:44 And so I created a workbook to go with the book. 17:47 And it is available on the website, 17:50 my parents' website which is TheProfessionalLover.net. 17:54 And it's in two formats, a PDF format, 17:57 if you just want to print it out, 17:59 or a word doc format if the person 18:02 wants to leave it in their computer like I do, 18:05 and actually fill in the questions 18:08 that go along with each week. 18:11 And it's just a way of helping couples or singles 18:15 or groups to facilitate the actual study part 18:20 that goes along with this book. 18:22 Man, Becoming a Professional Lover. 18:26 Now we actually have another clip. 18:28 And I want you to describe what's going on. 18:30 Okay, sure. Sure. 18:32 So let's take a look at that. Okay. 18:37 Oh, this is my parents' wedding 18:39 after their six-month whirlwind meeting, engagement. 18:45 They got married in Buffalo where her dad was pastoring. 18:49 And all of the kids, you know, were in part of the wedding. 18:53 So this is my older brother, Brian, 18:57 who's singing the Lord's Prayer. 19:00 We tease him and tell him how he sounds like 19:06 a well-known singer but that was his debut. 19:09 And then my dad is singing 19:11 to my mom here with these hands. 19:13 And what was great is that the 50th wedding anniversary, 19:16 he sang it there as well. 19:18 And he was worried that he wouldn't sound the same 19:20 but he did a great job, 19:22 and it was really nostalgic to hear him singing 19:25 that to her after all these years. 19:28 And you know that's the start of the relationship. 19:32 There we all are as a family, 19:33 my brothers are looking down 'cause they found out that 19:36 they weren't going on the honeymoon. 19:38 I still thought I was going, 19:40 so I was all smiley and everything. 19:42 And then you have some other pictures 19:43 where I'm like sad faced. 19:45 And I just found out that they were leaving me too. 19:48 I guess at that age, 19:49 you guys didn't quite understand the honeymoon. 19:51 Of course not. 19:52 You know, we are family now, 19:53 so the family is going on the trip. 19:56 That's right. It's vacation. 19:57 We didn't know. 20:00 Oh, man. Well, that's great. 20:03 What's next? 20:05 What other things do they offer? 20:08 Do they still do counseling? 20:10 Well, not so much. Okay. 20:12 But that's why it's great that they've been 20:15 able to encapsulate everything that they did in this book. 20:19 But one thing that my husband and I are doing 20:24 is that since we're going through the book, 20:27 we decided to blog about it. 20:30 And so every time we finish a week, 20:32 he writes a blog, 20:34 and I write a blog so that way... 20:36 And we post the blogs on their website 20:40 and also on their Facebook page which is Professional Lovers. 20:44 And we post the blog so that readers 20:47 who either have the book, 20:49 couples who have the book can see, you know, 20:52 our take on a week's tip, 20:56 you're getting his viewpoint 20:58 from a male's viewpoint and a husband, 21:00 and you're getting my viewpoint as the female and the wife. 21:04 And we wanted to be very personal, 21:08 this book that my parents did is very personal. 21:12 Each of these tips are actually things 21:15 that they used and that they taught, 21:20 a lot of the stories that are part of the tip, 21:24 the week's tip are stories from their marriage, 21:28 good and bad. 21:29 You know, and that's one thing that 21:31 people remember a lot about my parents 21:34 when they were present in their marriage 21:35 and family seminars is that they were transparent, 21:39 you know. 21:40 Just because I'm a psychologist and a counselor 21:42 and just because God is at the center of it 21:44 does not mean we are perfect. 21:46 And they had no qualms about letting people know, 21:49 we're not perfect. 21:51 You know, even sometimes our mom tells the story 21:54 of when they were at a seminar, doing a seminar, 21:57 and they were on a break, 22:00 and they got into some kind of 22:01 little tiff argument during the break, 22:04 and when they came back to the group and said, 22:06 "Okay, this is what we just experienced." 22:10 Okay, they shared the story, 22:11 and how would we take what we've been talking about 22:15 and resolve this issue. 22:19 And talked about it right there in front of people. 22:21 And so, likewise, our blog, you know, 22:24 my husband and my blog 22:26 hopefully will share the same kind of transparency. 22:30 Yeah, he's my best friend. 22:32 I love him, the Lord's in our relationship, 22:34 we've been married almost 25 years. 22:36 But we're human beings, we're imperfect. 22:40 There's going to be trouble, you know. 22:43 So how do we fix that? Absolutely. 22:44 And I think that, that is something 22:47 that is so important 'cause sometimes 22:48 people think that marriage is just set it and forget it. 22:51 Right. You know, oh, you said I do. 22:52 Well, we just go on living together. 22:55 No, you have to constantly pursue. 22:58 And this is coming from a single guy. 23:00 But you have to constantly pursue your spouse. 23:03 You know, you have to every single day. 23:07 And I love that this provides tips for doing that. 23:12 Like biblical, Bible based tips 23:14 for continuing to pursue and implement. 23:17 It's spiritually grounded but practical. 23:20 Yes, yes. Yeah. And it has to be. 23:23 You know, I mean, and also for our listening audience, 23:27 I'm sure that there are a lot of people 23:31 who are in troubled relationships, 23:33 who for whatever reason don't want to go and get help. 23:37 There's a stigma behind going to counseling, 23:41 telling somebody else my business. 23:43 I don't want to tell somebody else my business. 23:45 How somebody else gonna fix my problem, type of thing. 23:48 You know, and, or I don't want you making me look bad or, 23:52 you know, that kind of thing. 23:53 And I think the book kind of bridges that as well. 23:58 You have to be real about the fact 24:00 that you're gonna hit hard patches, 24:03 you're gonna hit trouble spots, you know. 24:06 And even though from a biblical standpoint, 24:09 divorce is never an issue 24:11 or it should never be a question, 24:14 it's going to come up some time 24:16 whether it pops in your head and you push it out, 24:18 whatever the case may be. 24:20 And this becomes a bridge for the people 24:22 who are skittish about going outside and getting help. 24:28 So this almost becomes 24:29 your own little personal counselor. 24:32 You know, Joe and Jackie are now your 24:34 little personal counselor because with 52 tips, 24:39 there are plenty of things that these tips address. 24:44 So there should be very little to nothing 24:48 that goes untouched in a marriage 24:50 that the tips won't address. 24:51 And you have to be willing to implement it. 24:54 Like, you don't just pick up instructions to something 24:58 and then say, "Well, I'm gonna follow step one. 25:01 I'll follow step three but I'm not gonna do 25:04 two, seven or eight." 25:06 This all works together, it's integrated, 25:08 and it's built on a foundation. 25:10 And let's be, you know, let's be real about it, 25:13 it's hard sometimes. 25:15 It's hard. 25:17 And if you're trying to do some of these tips 25:21 from a human standpoint with human emotions, 25:26 and you know, how you're feeling at this time, 25:29 and I don't like him very much, 25:31 or she's getting on my nerves right now, 25:34 you really have to ask for spiritual strength 25:38 to do it God's way. 25:40 Absolutely. 25:41 And that becomes a major factor in being able to do... 25:46 Some of this stuff is gonna be easy 25:48 but some of it is gonna be very tough, very tough, 25:51 and you have to have 25:52 the Holy Spirit's power in order to do it. 25:55 And it's loving how God loves. That's the key. 25:58 I mean, when we look at our own lives and see like, 26:01 "Man, God still loves me after X, Y and Z. 26:04 Or I used to be this way, and God still loves me, 26:07 and still wants a relationship with me." 26:09 Exactly, exactly. 26:10 This is learning to love God's way 26:12 not the television's way, 26:15 your friends' way, you know, 26:17 your home boys or home girls, 26:19 or you know your parents, this is God's way. 26:23 And we know that often, more often than not, 26:26 God's way is completely counter to our way. 26:31 Yes. 26:33 Man's way, society's way. 26:36 And, you know, and so that becomes 26:39 a real clarifying point to what we're talking about. 26:43 So there are gonna be a lot of things in here 26:44 that off the top, people might say, 26:48 "Okay, wait a minute. 26:51 I can't do that. No, are you kidding me?" 26:54 You know... 26:56 But if you're doing it God's way, 26:59 then ultimately you know that is the best way. 27:03 And it's gonna work out 27:05 the way it's supposed to work out. 27:07 And that's why it's important to involve Him 27:08 in everything that we do 27:11 because there are some things that we can't do on our own. 27:14 Especially, good things, 27:16 we can't do good things on our own, 27:17 you know that comes from God. 27:19 And I love the fact that it's an intimate journey 27:24 with tools and tips that can be implemented 27:28 in anybody's marriage and anybody's relationship. 27:30 Absolutely. 27:32 So that is great that the principles transcend, 27:36 you know, this one who loves acts of service or you know, 27:41 the different love language. 27:43 And all that kind of fits in, you know, when my parents, 27:46 my dad was good for, you know, 27:48 testing and that kind of thing. 27:49 Absolutely. 27:51 But now, you know, we've got new things 27:52 but it still can fit in. 27:54 That is great. 27:55 Well, thank you so much for joining us, Aunt Patty. 27:56 Thank you for having me. And writing this book. 27:59 And thank you for joining us. 28:01 Well, we've reached the end of another program. 28:03 Join us next time. 28:04 And remember, 28:05 it just wouldn't be the same without you. |
Revised 2024-04-24