Participants:
Series Code: UBR
Program Code: UBR000260A
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00:02 What would you do
00:03 if your church was blown away in a tornado? 00:05 Stay tuned to hear about the tornado in Tulsa. 00:08 My name is Jason Bradley, 00:09 and you're watching Urban Report. 00:35 Hello and welcome to Urban Report. 00:36 My guests today 00:38 are Pastor J. Malcolm Phipps Jr., 00:40 senior pastor of the Bethel SDA church in Tulsa, Oklahoma, 00:44 and he is accompanied by his lovely wife, 00:46 Mrs. Carolyn Phipps. 00:48 Welcome to Urban Report. Glad to be here. 00:51 Glad to have you. Thank you. 00:52 You're welcome. 00:54 Now we have a lot to cover in a short amount of time, 00:58 but I want to get 00:59 into your background a little bit 01:02 and who you are. 01:05 Have you always, Pastor Phipps, been a Seventh-day Adventist? 01:10 Yes, I am a fourth-generation Seventh-day Adventist pastor 01:14 on both sides of my family. 01:15 Wow! 01:17 My mother's side goes back three generations, 01:21 Elder John and Charles Mans. 01:24 Okay. 01:25 And Charles Mans was my great-grandfather, 01:27 and John Mans was my great grand uncle. 01:30 Okay. 01:31 And they were early pioneers in the black work 01:34 in the southeast, 01:36 the southwest part of the United States. 01:39 Wow! 01:40 And what about you, Mrs. Phipps? 01:42 Well, unfortunately, 01:43 I have not always been Seventh-day Adventist. 01:47 Okay. 01:48 I grew up Baptist, but as soon as I learned the truth 01:52 as an adult, I never looked back. 01:55 How were you introduced to the truth? 01:57 By a Bible worker, 01:59 by the name of Brother Michael Brown 02:02 gave me Bible studies. 02:04 Okay. And my life has changed. 02:07 It changed completely. Wow. 02:09 Yes. And so how did you guys meet? 02:14 Well, there were two pastors that were influential, 02:19 Elder James Cox and Elder Durandal Ford. 02:23 I know both of those pastors. 02:25 I went to school with Durandal, the son, 02:28 and then with Crystal Cox. 02:32 Well, those two pastors were the matchmakers. 02:34 Okay. They set us up. 02:36 Okay. So they arranged the meeting. 02:40 Now did you approach Mrs. Phipps 02:42 or did Mrs. Phipps approach you? 02:44 How did that take place? 02:46 What was the initial point of contact? 02:50 I initiated everything. 02:56 He came to prayer meeting one Wednesday night, 03:00 and I said, "He's a good pastor. 03:03 I'd loved his message." 03:05 So I decided to send him a letter, a traditional, 03:09 old-fashioned, handwritten letter. 03:12 Okay. 03:13 And I told him how much I enjoyed his sermon 03:16 that Wednesday night, and I would like to hear more. 03:20 Okay. 03:21 So it took him about two months 03:24 to return a response. 03:27 It took you two months to respond to the letter, 03:30 what happened? 03:33 I wanted to make sure that I wasn't being too hasty. 03:37 Okay. 03:38 I also wanted to make sure that I was ready to go 03:42 to that level of a relationship 03:44 because it was clear from her letter 03:47 that she wasn't just looking for something casual. 03:52 And so I didn't want to lead her on. 03:55 Okay. 03:56 I didn't want to make her feel as though I was, 04:00 you know, being disingenuous. 04:04 So I waited until I was sure I was ready to make the step. 04:08 Okay, okay. 04:10 And so then after those two months, 04:13 you responded back to her letter. 04:16 Now you said that he was a good pastor, 04:19 also a good-looking pastor that you... 04:21 Yes, I failed to say that. A good-looking pastor. 04:25 Okay. 04:26 And I said, "Oh, I'm sure he's married 04:28 or someone has snagged him already." 04:31 But I said, "I'm going to try. I can only get yes or no." 04:37 What happened after that? 04:39 Well, Pastor Cox did a little instigating. 04:44 He gave me some tickets to Cooke-Franklin concert 04:50 and suggested that I take Carolyn. 04:52 Okay. Okay. And so I did. 04:56 And on our way, she'd let me know 04:58 what I thought all along 05:00 that she was not looking for anything casual, 05:04 that she was looking for a serious relationship. 05:07 And if I wasn't serious, 05:08 then she wasn't going to waste her time. 05:10 So it was all or nothing. All in, all out. 05:13 That's right. 05:15 Well, it looks like it worked out for you. 05:18 Yes, it did. Yeah, yeah. 05:20 So tell me about your church now, 05:23 fast forwarding a little bit, Bethel SDA in Tulsa, Oklahoma. 05:27 Tell me about how you reached 05:30 the community and what your church is like. 05:35 Well, I always join the ministerial alliance 05:39 wherever I go. 05:40 Okay. 05:41 And so we got involved immediately 05:45 with the other pastors, 05:47 which was very fortuitous as you'll see later. 05:52 The next thing we did was to try to purchase 05:55 some transportation. 05:57 The church van was in very bad condition. 05:59 It really wasn't road worthy. So we bought a bus. 06:03 Okay. 06:05 And the purpose of that was for outreach. 06:09 At the same time, we bought the bus, 06:10 AY Leaders started Vacation Bible School 06:15 and one of the housing projects nearby called Apache Manor. 06:18 Okay. 06:20 And we would pick up the young people 06:21 and bring them to the church. 06:23 And that went over very well. 06:27 The young people 06:28 from their Vacation Bible School 06:30 became the core along with our young people 06:32 of Pathfinder Club, Bethel Mighty Thunder. 06:35 Wow! Okay. 06:36 And so between five and seven, 06:42 eight young people have joined the church 06:44 as a result of being baptized. 06:46 Wow. 06:48 Even now, while we're out of our building, 06:51 the club is still operating. 06:53 Okay. 06:54 And the leader of the club now, 06:59 Elder Antonio Thompson, 07:01 he has about half of the club is non-Adventist. 07:05 Wow! 07:06 Half of the club is non-Adventist, okay. 07:09 And so we're still doing our outreach and witnessing 07:14 even though we're not in the building that way. 07:18 Now let Sister Phipps talk about the soup kitchen. 07:21 Okay. 07:22 Because that was the next thing 07:23 the Pathfinders started the process. 07:27 It was called Pathfinder Pathways. 07:29 Okay. 07:31 And they would get the things from the food pantry 07:33 and take dry lunches, 07:35 you know, packaged lunches to the homeless. 07:38 And we reorganized it, 07:42 Sister Phipps took over. 07:44 We named it the Soup Kitchen at Bethel. 07:47 Nice. Okay. 07:49 So we started the Soup Kitchen at Bethel about 2014. 07:54 Okay. 07:56 We had our first Thanksgiving dinner. 07:58 We had an array of people, 08:01 we had policemen who worked down the street, 08:04 we had firemen, people off the streets came in, 08:09 and we had a wonderful Thanksgiving dinner. 08:14 They all enjoyed it. 08:17 We had literature out on the table 08:19 so that they could take those at will, 08:23 take them home and read them, 08:25 you know, read about Seventh-day Adventist. 08:28 Yes. Yes. 08:30 We also would do back lunches, 08:33 and the Pathfinders would take those out and serve to people. 08:39 May I add a quick story? Absolutely. 08:41 Okay. 08:42 One, they served one person there 08:45 in particular, and he said, 08:47 "No, I don't want anything. 08:49 I know I can't eat it. 08:51 I know a lot of it is probably unclean pork, 08:55 baloney or whatever, 08:57 and I just rather not be bothered." 08:58 So they said, "No, take a look." 09:01 And he did. 09:02 So we were grateful, and he was happy about it, yes. 09:07 Oh, good, good, good, good. 09:10 So he looked in the back, 09:11 and he saw that the food was good 09:14 for his consumption, there was no pork, 09:16 there was none of that. 09:17 Absolutely. 09:18 And so he was excited about that. 09:20 Yes. 09:21 Now why was that so important to him? 09:22 I think because we found out later that, 09:25 of course, he was homeless 09:26 which made us sad, but he's also Adventist. 09:30 Wow! 09:31 So we know that we have our own brothers 09:34 and sisters out there who are struggling, 09:39 and that's why it's so vitally important 09:42 that we stay out there and help those 09:45 who are in need of help. 09:47 Wow. 09:48 And so what inspired you guys 09:51 to get this part of the ministry started, 09:54 the Soup Kitchen, reaching out, feeding? 09:57 It's practical Christianity, but what brought that about? 10:01 Because in the community, the north side, 10:04 I would drive around, and I would see so many people 10:08 who needed food, who were in need of food, 10:11 and they didn't have it. 10:12 And when they would come, 10:14 they would have their children with them, 10:16 sometimes babies, and that touched my heart, 10:20 and I had to do something. 10:23 I had to. Yes. 10:24 You know, North Tulsa is a food desert. 10:25 Yes. Okay. 10:27 Yeah, there are no grocery stores. 10:30 People shop out of the Dollar Store 10:33 or convenience stores 10:37 if they don't have transportation. 10:39 And so and many of them don't, 10:42 and they live within whatever few blocks, 10:47 a lot of them, they're born, raised, 10:49 and die within that neighborhood. 10:52 And they don't ever go anywhere. 10:53 Wow! 10:55 So the only nutritious food 10:58 that they got was from the soup kitchen 11:00 and the community service. 11:03 Elder Barnes runs our community service, 11:06 Elder Sheila Barnes, and she would have boxes 11:10 which they would have healthy food 11:12 that they could take home. 11:15 And commodities, clothes, diapers, 11:18 whatever they needed, she would supply that. 11:21 And so since there was no grocery stores, no Walmart, 11:25 you know, it's a desert. 11:27 Yeah. Yeah. 11:29 And so what we were doing was really needed. 11:31 Yes. Absolutely. 11:33 So you filled the void in the community, 11:34 you met their needs, 11:36 and then you told them to come follow Christ. 11:37 Yes. That's beautiful. 11:39 Yes. 11:40 And we had several people who don't join the church 11:42 from the Soup Kitchen and from community service. 11:44 Wow! 11:46 And that transportation 11:47 that you guys purchased was crucial. 11:50 Absolutely. Yeah. 11:51 Because many of those people didn't have a way. 11:56 So, okay, so you have the Soup Kitchen, 12:00 how often did you guys feed the community, like what days? 12:06 The Soup Kitchen was open the same time community service 12:08 was opened. 12:10 Okay. 12:11 And that was every other Wednesday. 12:13 Yes. Okay. 12:14 From 5:00 to 7:00. Okay. 12:15 And the reason for that is 12:19 because they regulate 12:22 how often you can be open. 12:26 Yes, you have several different charities 12:30 that operate. 12:31 You have Catholic charities and then others. 12:34 Okay. 12:35 And so there's a certain amount of time 12:38 that you can operate. 12:40 And they really don't want you 12:41 to operate outside of that time. 12:43 Okay. 12:44 And so we just we had to be obedient. 12:48 Wow. 12:49 Okay, so but you maximize that time though. 12:51 Yes, we do. 12:52 That's what it sounded like, you maximized that time. 12:56 All right, so you've got the Soup Kitchen, 12:58 what are other outreach deals? 13:00 You had the Pathfinders deal, 13:02 but how else did you reach the community as well? 13:05 Well, as I mentioned earlier, 13:08 we joined the ministerial alliance. 13:11 And they have different functions 13:14 throughout the year. 13:15 Okay. 13:16 And our church became involved in those functions. 13:19 In fact, when we when we joined the alliance, 13:22 after the first year, 13:24 they wanted me to be the treasurer. 13:27 I declined to do that. I thought that wasn't wise. 13:31 Adventist pastor that handles the money 13:33 for the North Tulsa Baptist Ministers Alliance, 13:35 I don't think so. 13:39 So after the second year, 13:40 they asked me to be the vice-president. 13:43 So they asked so... 13:45 Wait. 13:46 So they asked you to be the treasurer, 13:49 you declined that, 13:51 then they asked you to be the vice-president, 13:54 what happened next? 13:57 I said, "Brother, I'm an Adventist pastor, 14:00 you sure you want me to be the vice-president 14:02 of the North Tulsa Baptist Ministers Conference?" 14:05 Uh-huh. 14:06 And he said, "Didn't I ask you?" 14:08 I said, "Okay." 14:11 So then they assigned me to the pastoral helps part. 14:15 Uh-huh. We meet every Tuesday. 14:17 He assigned me to pastoral help. 14:19 It's like continuing education for the pastors. 14:22 This is an excellent witnessing opportunity. 14:25 And so again, I asked him, 14:28 "Are you sure that's what you want me to do? 14:31 I only know Adventism. I can only teach what I know. 14:38 This is a North Tulsa Baptist Ministers Conference." 14:41 He said, "Didn't I ask?" Uh-huh. 14:44 He said, "We need to be well-rounded. 14:45 We need to know and be educated." 14:48 I said, "Okay." 14:49 So they learned the three angels' message, 14:51 they learned the Sabbath, 14:52 they learned the state of the dead, 14:54 they learned the health message, 14:55 they learned it all. 14:57 Wow! 14:59 Where else are you going to find the opportunity 15:03 to present that in that manner? 15:05 That's a blessing. 15:06 God opened the door for that one. 15:08 What was their response? Well, the response was varied. 15:15 We talked about the Sabbath, 15:17 several of them just dropped their heads. 15:23 And we had the same response with some of the others, 15:25 the biggest debate and discussion 15:30 was over the health message. 15:33 Really? Yeah. 15:36 There was some who felt like 15:37 that was part of the Law of Moses. 15:40 And that it only applied to the Jews and so on. 15:43 And so we had a real healthy discussion on that. 15:46 Okay. The Sabbath was not an issue. 15:48 They all knew. They knew the Sabbath. 15:51 State of the dead was divided. 15:54 There were some who agreed with us, 15:56 and there were some who were adamant and opposite. 16:01 And when we've really got into some serious discussion 16:04 was when I brought up the fact 16:06 that Jesus, after He had risen, 16:10 told Mary, He had not yet ascended 16:12 to the Father. 16:15 So if He had not yet ascended to the Father, 16:17 the thief couldn't have been with Him on Friday in paradise. 16:22 And so that really sparked some discussion. 16:28 We did give several of them who were interested, 16:31 Amazing Facts Bible studies 16:33 so they could look further for themselves. 16:35 Uh-huh. 16:36 But I haven't pressured anybody. 16:37 Okay. 16:39 I just sort of... 16:40 I gave them the information. Yeah. 16:41 They're all educated men, 16:43 I gave them a chance to digest it. 16:45 Yeah. I will come back to it. 16:47 Absolutely. 16:48 And I'm wondering how'd they feel 16:50 when they see the Sabbath? 16:51 I mean, because you really can't argue. 16:53 It's plain, it's plain as day. It's very plain. 16:56 And it's that almost 16:57 that you could see around the table 17:00 when I got to the Seventh-day Sabbath, they just... 17:03 Yeah, I mean, 17:05 how are they going to refute it? 17:06 They can't. Yes. Yes. 17:08 Wow, that is an excellent witnessing opportunity. 17:11 You also have some other ministries 17:14 that you do outreach, Backpack Ministry. 17:17 Tell us real quick about the Backpack Ministry. 17:22 Well, just before school starts, 17:24 about two weeks before, we will find who is in need, 17:29 and we will supply that need to the children for backpacks. 17:33 And, of course, school uniforms, 17:36 if they need those, 17:38 we will satisfy that need as well. 17:41 Wow. 17:42 And also another ministry is the personal care bags 17:46 that we provide for those 17:48 who are in need of basic 17:52 soaps, lotions, 17:55 whatever they need, we will provide that. 17:58 Wow. 17:59 So you guys have had a tremendous impact 18:01 on the community. 18:02 You know, we've been talking about your church, 18:03 we've been talking about the impact 18:05 that you've had on the community 18:07 and alliance and all of these things, 18:10 but we haven't seen any pictures of your church. 18:12 Now we have some pictures of your church 18:15 while it's intact and looking pristine clean. 18:20 So we're going to take a look at some of those now, 18:24 and you can tell us what we're looking at. 18:26 Well, that's the sanctuary there. 18:28 That's the sanctuary. That's the front of the church. 18:32 Okay. Okay. 18:34 So you got... 18:35 Before the tornado. 18:36 Okay, and it looks like it's pretty solid, solid there. 18:40 Well, that's why we survived 18:41 'cause of the cinderblock construction. 18:42 Okay. 18:44 And so you guys were hit by a tornado... 18:48 During prayer meeting. During prayer meeting, 18:50 so there were people in the church? 18:52 Yes, we had just finished a song service section. 18:56 We were about to have, as we're going to the prayer 19:00 'cause the people are giving their testimonies 19:01 and the prayer requests, 19:03 and we were about to start the prayer itself. 19:06 Okay. 19:07 And then everybody's phone went off. 19:09 Really, with the alarm. 19:10 And as soon as the phone went off, 19:12 then the sirens started. 19:14 And as soon as the sirens started, 19:18 silt started falling down from the ceiling. 19:20 Wow! 19:21 And they said, "Pastor, don't you think 19:24 maybe we ought to go home?" 19:25 I said, "No, I think we're in safest place. 19:28 We're in a cinderblock construction, 19:30 but we need to get out of here." 19:31 Yes. So we got inside. 19:33 No sooner that we start out to sanctuary, 19:35 then we could hear the roof coming off. 19:37 Wow! 19:39 So we began to run out of the sanctuary. 19:41 Yes. 19:42 We got on to the foyer, 19:44 and no sooner had we got in the foyer, 19:45 then there was a sister who was late, 19:47 and she stepped inside the doors, 19:49 and the bricks in the front fell 19:51 where she would have been if she had been a second late. 19:54 Wow! 19:55 At the same time, 19:57 the upstairs of the sanctuary fell down 19:59 into the church. 20:01 So if we had hesitated, 20:03 it'd been a whole different story. 20:04 Oh, yeah. 20:06 We may not be sitting here talking today, that... 20:08 So nobody was hurt, not a scratch on anybody. 20:13 You know, we actually have a video clip 20:16 that we're going to show of just right 20:19 when the tornado took... 20:21 Right after the tornado took place 20:23 and look at the devastation that took place to the church. 20:26 Let's take a look at that clip. 20:34 Oh, yeah, it hit the church. 20:36 It hit the church, not went over a foot. 20:39 It straight up hit the church. 20:58 This is the east side of the church, 21:02 as you can see, 21:04 the front is gone. 21:08 The roof is destroyed. 21:11 From the inside, it only looked like halfway gone, 21:13 but from outside, you can see it's gone. 21:16 The roof is destroyed all the way 21:18 to the back of the church just about. 21:22 This is the west... 21:23 Do I call the gas company yet? 21:25 No. Somebody needs to call them. 21:26 Please, please call them and let them know 21:30 that the gas is real strong. 21:33 That's the next thing I'm afraid it might blow up. 21:34 Why don't you call the fire department? 21:36 Okay. 21:43 Wow. 21:45 Now that is a whole another look 21:48 to the church that we saw 21:49 that was pristine clean and intact. 21:51 That tornado came through and devastated the church, 21:54 and it's a blessing that you guys are still alive. 21:57 And, you know, 21:59 I've heard your story before, 22:03 and I was very impressed with what took place 22:07 even after the tornado 22:09 while you guys were in the process, 22:12 and while you're still 22:13 in the process of rebuilding the church. 22:16 Touch on how ministry still continued 22:21 while you guys were rebuilding. 22:25 Well, we were determined not to let our light die. 22:30 There were those who wanted 22:31 to move south. 22:38 And I was determined that we were going to stay 22:40 in our neighborhood 22:41 because we already had outreach going, 22:44 we had people who were contacts 22:48 who could possibly join the church. 22:50 If we move south, we make it almost impossible 22:52 for them to be with us. 22:54 Yeah. 22:55 So... 22:57 It so happened that there was a church 23:01 who was renting from us 23:04 while they were rebuilding their church. 23:06 And so we charged them $600 a month. 23:12 And just to give you an idea, 23:14 we had a Youth Federation and rented another facility 23:19 because our facility was too small, 23:22 and it was $600 for two days. 23:24 Okay. 23:26 Okay, so just to give you an idea. 23:27 Uh-huh. 23:28 So we charged them $600 a month. 23:30 Okay. 23:31 When our church was destroyed, they opened their doors to us, 23:36 and they charged us $600 a month. 23:38 Wow! 23:40 If we had not fellowshipped, 23:42 we would have 23:44 had that door not open to us. 23:47 After we had been there for a while, 23:51 we decided to move again, and we moved to another church, 23:56 the pastor was a minister of the alliance. 23:58 Okay. 24:00 It was a Christian Methodist Episcopal pastor. 24:02 He opened his church to us, and he said... 24:06 Well, I asked him, "How much do we need to pay?" 24:09 He said, "Well, what were you paying before?" 24:11 I said, "Six hundred a month." 24:13 He said, "Then six hundred a month." 24:15 Wow. Wow. So they were fair. They were more than fair. 24:20 They were extremely generous. 24:23 Absolutely. Yes. 24:24 And so the point is, 24:25 it's that because of the relationships 24:28 that we built in the community, we have been blessed, 24:33 whereas we would have been in serious hurt. 24:37 And see, that's important. 24:39 Like your church is one 24:40 that would be missed 24:43 had it just vanished. 24:45 You know, the community would miss your church 24:47 because you have a tremendous impact 24:50 on the community. 24:51 Now what's going on with the rebuilding process 24:54 of the church? 24:55 Well, we ran into a few difficulties. 24:59 There was a discrepancy between what the architect 25:01 and the contractors thought it was going to cost us 25:04 to get back in the building 25:06 and with the insurance company thought 25:08 it was going to cost us to get back in the building. 25:11 And they were between two 25:12 and three hundred thousand dollars 25:16 apart on... 25:17 That's a huge discrepancy. Yeah. 25:20 And, of course, the insurance company gave us 25:22 what they thought 25:23 it would cost us to get back in. 25:25 And it turns out that it was what the contractor 25:28 and the architect said 25:31 it was going to cost. 25:33 In addition to that, 25:36 of course, with the roof blown off, 25:38 it was raining, 25:40 you know, rain always comes with the tornado. 25:41 Yes. 25:43 So we had two to three inches of water 25:45 standing in the building. 25:48 And, of course, within three days, 25:50 we had mold running up the walls. 25:53 Wow. 25:54 And the insurance company said, "We weren't covered for mold." 25:57 And so that was another battle. 25:59 But the state of Oklahoma says that water damage 26:03 and mold damage is the same thing. 26:05 So then they had to come up with money for the mold. 26:09 But again, there was a discrepancy. 26:12 The mold company said 26:13 it's going to cost $300, 000 dollars to fix this. 26:16 And the insurance company said 26:18 they felt like it would cost fix 26:20 a $150,000 to fix it. 26:22 And so they gave us $150,000. 26:24 Again, it was what the mold company said it was. 26:29 So we had to take money 26:31 that we needed to build to fix the mold 26:34 because we couldn't go back in without fixing mold. 26:36 So you're short of finances 26:39 on getting the church fully repaired. 26:42 That's correct. 26:43 And how much short would you say that you are? 26:46 Well, we are fortunate 26:49 that we are part of a union 26:53 that really cares about us. 26:55 And so the South Western Union Conference 26:58 in cooperation 27:00 with our president, Elder Watkins, 27:03 came up with a grant of $90,000. 27:05 Okay. 27:06 And so we'll be able to get back in our sanctuary, 27:09 we're hoping, by September. 27:11 Okay. 27:12 The rest of it, we got to keep raising money. 27:15 And so how do people, if they want to support 27:18 what you're trying to do, rebuild the church, 27:21 how do they get in touch with you? 27:23 What's the website? 27:25 It is Bethel49. AdventistChurchConnect.org. 27:30 And do you have an email address as well? 27:32 My email address is my name, 27:35 jmalcolmphippsjr@yahoo.com 27:39 Okay, wonderful. 27:40 And when people go to that website, 27:41 they'll be able to click on a Giving tab 27:45 and donate to the church 27:46 so that you guys can finish repairing the church. 27:49 There'll be a place under church budget 27:51 where they can type in "rebuild". 27:55 Wonderful. 27:57 Thank you so much for joining us and... 27:59 Thank you for having us. You're welcome. 28:01 And thank you for joining us. 28:03 Join us next time, and remember, 28:04 it just wouldn't be the same without you. |
Revised 2018-08-02