Participants:
Series Code: UBR
Program Code: UBR000261A
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00:01 Stay tuned to find out
00:02 how one man's journey ended up having a worldwide impact. 00:05 My name is Jason Bradley, 00:07 and you're watching Urban Report. 00:32 Hello and welcome to Urban Report. 00:34 My guest today is Pastor CA Murray, 00:37 and he is the General Manager of the 3ABN Proclaim! 00:39 Network. 00:40 He is also one of my role models 00:42 and mentors. 00:44 And he has a very powerful testimony. 00:46 Welcome to Urban Report, Pastor Murray. 00:47 Good to be here. 00:49 I'm actually a fan of this show. 00:50 Oh. 00:52 Well, praise the Lord, praise the Lord. 00:53 You know, we go way back as far back as I can go. 00:57 Yeah. 00:58 And you actually baptized my mom 01:04 while she was pregnant with me. 01:05 Is that so. 01:06 That's how far back we go, and I appreciate that. 01:11 But, you know, our viewing audience knows you very well. 01:15 I'm sure they've seen you on 3ABN, 01:17 I'm sure they've seen you on Free Indeed. 01:21 And we want to get to know the man behind 3ABN Proclaim! 01:27 Oh, have mercy. So where did you grow up? 01:30 Where are you from? Buffalo, New York. 01:31 Okay. Yeah. 01:33 Grew up in the Emmanuel Temple Seventh-day Adventist Church 01:35 in Buffalo, New York, 01:36 baptized at age 10, only one in my family. 01:40 Wow. 01:41 Wait a minute, you were the only one 01:43 in your family to be baptized? 01:44 Really? Okay. Yeah. Yeah. 01:47 And how long did you live in Buffalo? 01:50 Until I went off to Oakwood, 01:52 went to Erie Community College on a basketball scholarship, 01:55 and then to Alliance College 01:56 in Cambridge Springs, Pennsylvania, 01:58 on a basketball scholarship, 01:59 broke my ankle twice playing basketball 02:01 on a Friday night. 02:03 And the pastor said, 02:04 "You know, Lord let you break your ankle to keep it 02:05 from breaking your neck." 02:07 I got the message, transferred to Oakwood College 02:09 and graduated from Oakwood College. 02:10 Wow. Yeah. 02:11 Now going back to when you were 10 years old, 02:13 how did you come in to the message? 02:16 Oh, we lived next door to a family, the Riles Family. 02:20 We could play with them during the week, 02:22 couldn't play with them on Saturday 02:24 and couldn't understand that. 02:25 We just knew that on Saturday, 02:26 they couldn't come out and play with us, 02:28 and we couldn't go in their yard 02:29 and play with them. 02:30 We see them all pile in the car and disappear 02:32 and go someplace we didn't know where. 02:33 We moved to another part of town 02:35 and moved right across the street 02:37 from another family with that same weird behavior. 02:40 Play with them during the week, on Saturday, 02:41 everybody piles in the car and disappears for the day. 02:45 And the son was my age, 02:46 the daughter was my sister's age, 02:48 she's a year and a half older than I. 02:50 And so I asked the son, "Steven, where do you guys go 02:52 when you do this disappearing thing, 02:54 you know, on Saturday mornings? 02:56 He said, "We go to Sabbath school," 02:57 which meant nothing to me. 02:59 So I said "Okay, next week when you disappear, 03:00 I want to go with you." 03:02 And so I went with him, 03:03 and I went to my first Sabbath school. 03:05 I'll tell you a quick story. 03:07 The teacher was Mildred Willis Gil. 03:11 I guess she was about 18 or 19, 03:13 maybe 20, certainly no older, and a pretty thing. 03:16 And when you got the question right 03:18 that she'd asked you, she would stroke your cheek 03:21 or put her hand on your shoulder 03:23 and say, "Very good." 03:24 Uh-huh. 03:26 And I saw her doing that and I said, "Ooh, I like that." 03:27 You know, so, like, next week, 03:30 I'm getting one of those, you know. 03:31 So I got to my Sabbath school 03:33 and I studied, studied, studied. 03:34 She asked the first question, I, like, put my hand up, 03:37 you know, and answered it correctly, 03:38 and she said, "Very good." 03:40 I said, "Okay, I'm coming to Sabbath school forever, 03:43 you know." 03:45 About a year or two later, she married Conrad Gil, 03:47 Pastor Conrad Gil, and all of us as young boys, 03:49 we hated him because he took away our, 03:52 you know, our Sabbath school teacher. 03:53 Years later, when I was at the seminary, 03:55 he was teaching at Andrews, and I had a chance to tell him, 03:58 "You know, 20, 30 years ago, I used to hate you, man, 04:01 because you took away our Sabbath school teacher." 04:03 She is retired now, living in Atlanta, 04:05 and every now and again, we will talk on the phone, 04:06 I tell her that story, 04:08 and she thinks it's hilarious 'cause she doesn't remember. 04:10 But her kindness brought me into the church. 04:13 Wow. 04:15 And then the church brought me to the Lord. 04:16 So when you're kind to a young person, point being, 04:18 you never know 04:19 what that's going to translate into 04:21 because she showed kindness to everybody, 04:23 but the guys, kind of, really liked it. 04:24 Yes. 04:25 And all of those guys stayed in the church, man, 04:27 because of that kindness shown, and certainly, in my life, 04:29 it was true. 04:30 Wow. 04:32 So that had a tremendous impact on you. 04:33 What did your family think when you came home? 04:36 When you started going to church 04:37 and then you ended up being baptized at 10 years old, 04:39 what did your family think? 04:41 My mom was like, 04:42 "Okay, I'm not doing that, you know, it's not for me." 04:44 You know, she was kind of a holiday Methodist. 04:46 Okay. 04:47 You know, my dad was, 04:49 kind of, all Robert Sunday morning, 04:50 that's plenty, that's enough, you know, kind of thing. 04:52 And my sister and brother, 04:54 kind of, just roll with the punches. 04:55 My mother said, 04:56 "If this what you want to do, okay, not for me, 05:00 but it's okay." 05:01 She had a great deal of respect for Adventist 05:03 because she saw their lifestyle. 05:05 So when I would disappear with their family all day 05:08 on Saturdays sometimes, 05:09 she never asked, she never questioned. 05:10 She knew I was with the Adventists 05:12 across the street, 05:13 and she had great respect for them. 05:15 So when I came home Saturday night, 05:16 she'd say, "Hey, how was the day-kind of thing." 05:18 But not a question 05:20 because she had that much love and respect 05:22 for what she saw, as Jesus, she saw in them. 05:24 Yeah. 05:25 So she was comfortable putting me 05:26 in their hands. 05:28 And what did your parents do? They worked hard, didn't they? 05:31 Your dad, what did your dad do? 05:33 My dad worked 05:35 for a New York Central Railroad. 05:36 He was actually a cook. Okay. 05:37 And he retired early, and he had a restaurant 05:40 for a while called the Silver Slipper. 05:42 Okay. 05:43 And so as a restaurant person, 05:45 you know restaurant work is hard and long, 05:46 Yes, it is. 05:48 Because when it's your restaurant, 05:49 it's on you. 05:51 You know, and it wasn't like a big restaurant. 05:52 It's, kind of, like a Rib Shack kind of a thing. 05:53 Okay. 05:55 And then my mom worked in the X-ray department 05:56 of Buffalo General Hospital. 05:57 So they were working people. Wow, wow. 05:59 And what impact did that have on your life 06:01 'cause you're a hard-working person? 06:03 I don't think I do... 06:04 You know, people look at you and judge, I just... 06:07 I liked Adventism. To this day, I like Adventism. 06:13 I like the role that God has called me to. 06:16 I had the privilege of baptizing my mom, 06:18 baptizing my dad one month 06:19 before he had a heart attack and died, 06:22 and then seeing my sister come to the Lord. 06:24 So my brother died of drugs at age 36, 06:28 but we got mom, dad, and my sister in. 06:32 And I can see there were times, you know, at times, 06:35 when I hated going to church, you know. 06:37 I had those wilderness years, playing basketball, 06:39 scholarship, and it never occurred to me 06:42 that I could stop, you know, I'd whine about, 06:44 "Now I got to go to church." 06:45 My mother said, "No, you don't. Stay home. 06:46 You know, I don't want to hear you whine, 06:48 just stay home." 06:49 "And now, I got to go." 06:50 So sometimes 06:52 we would play ball on Friday night, 06:53 go out and party till 06:55 about six o'clock in the morning, 06:56 I'd come home, study my Sabbath school lesson, 06:57 sleep for an hour, get up and go to church. 06:59 You know, that kind of thing. 07:01 You know, I had all these rules, 07:02 you know, I don't eat pork. 07:05 So I never ate pork, yeah, 07:06 but I was playing basketball on Friday night. 07:08 You know, all these kind of ways, 07:09 you're trying to justify your lifestyle. 07:10 Yeah. 07:12 And that's an interesting thing 07:13 because when I was in that world, 07:14 I still tried to justify things. 07:16 Yeah, yeah. 07:17 Like when I was out, I did eat pork, 07:20 but I'd only eat certain kinds of pork, 07:22 like that really made a different. 07:24 How ignorant is that? Yeah, it is, yeah. 07:26 Yeah, you do all these kind of things 07:28 that try to make yourself feel good, 07:29 you know, you're breaking the commandments. 07:31 You know, playing ball, broke the same ankle 07:32 in the same place, 07:34 the exact same break, two years in a row, 07:35 almost one year apart. 07:36 And the doctor said, 07:38 "It's very unusual to break your ankle, 07:39 the same ankle." 07:41 He hold up the x-rays, the same break. 07:42 So when I have to try on shoes, I do my left foot first 07:45 because it never quite healed correctly. 07:49 But, you know, you're not eating pork, 07:51 I'm not drinking, not eating pork, 07:52 but you're playing basketball on Friday night. 07:54 Yeah. 07:55 So what's, you know, sin is sin kind of thing. 07:57 So we do these kind of things. Yes, yes. 07:59 But that got me... 08:00 I, kind of, came to my senses, transferred to old College. 08:03 It was a whole new story 'cause I had no money, 08:05 my parents had no money, 08:07 and I was going to school on a scholarship. 08:08 Well, the scholarship was ended but Dr. Calvin Rock found 08:12 some money for me, and we got in Oakwood College, 08:15 worked our way through and graduated, 08:18 and then went on 08:19 to the seminary two years later. 08:21 Wow. 08:22 You know, what I want to know 08:23 is how you witnessed to your family. 08:26 I mean, you baptized your sister, 08:27 you baptized your mom and your dad, 08:30 how did you witness to them 08:32 because I think sometimes family 08:34 are the hardest people to witness to? 08:38 Mostly lifestyle, they weren't of the nature 08:42 that you could preach too much. 08:45 My mom ordered my dad, 08:47 but my dad would ask me questions, 08:50 and it occurred to me 08:51 that something is going on in his heart. 08:53 So basically, it was just living the life 08:57 and living the life consistently. 09:01 You know, it'd be funny, 09:03 and my family is great football family. 09:05 Even college football on Saturday, you come home, 09:08 my sister who was working as a nurse 09:10 had her own TV in a room, 09:12 my dad had a TV in the living room, 09:14 my mom had a TV in the bedroom. 09:16 So everybody's watching TV 09:17 because my family all watched TV very differently. 09:19 My sister screams at the television set, 09:22 you know, "For you, stupid." 09:24 She would, you know, throw things 09:25 at the television set. 09:27 So she has to watch TV by herself, 09:28 you can't watch TV with Donna 'cause she's berserk that way. 09:31 Uh-huh. 09:32 My mom always wanted it very quiet. 09:33 Uh-huh. 09:35 You know, she doesn't want any noise, 09:36 just the sound of the television set. 09:37 So all that screaming and hysteria on, 09:39 she didn't want that stuff. 09:40 And my dad was somewhere in the middle, 09:41 but he liked to watch TV, kind of, by himself. 09:43 So you got three TVs going on. 09:45 I'd have to walk past those three TVs 09:47 and go to my room, kind of close the door, 09:48 you know all those things, it's because... 09:50 Yeah, yeah. 09:51 And somehow that made an impression. 09:53 I didn't know at the time, but later on, 09:54 the fact that I would just pass all that stuff. 09:56 Yeah. 09:57 And the way I handled things, 10:00 and they had a healthy respect for the way Adventists lived 10:03 because they saw Christianity in the people 10:07 that we associated with. 10:09 And when my mother went to church, 10:10 everybody was so friendly to her, 10:12 which says a lot to greeting people 10:14 when they come to church that you don't know. 10:17 Whenever she came, they showed her love, 10:19 they showed her respect, that kind of thing, 10:21 and that planted a seed. 10:23 And then I went home, and I did a week of prayer. 10:26 And on a Friday night, I had preached all week, 10:28 and Friday night, 10:29 and I had one last Sabbath morning. 10:31 So I and the Lord determined 10:34 she's getting out of that seat tonight, you know. 10:36 So I preached Jason, 10:38 and I preached maybe 20 minutes, 10:40 and I appealed for another 30. 10:43 Whoa. 10:44 I mean, I went to the cross, 10:45 I held her over the flames of hell, 10:47 I did everything I could. 10:48 I said, "That woman is getting out," 10:50 and I knew the Spirit was working 10:51 'cause she's sitting in a chair, 10:52 and she's rocking back and forth, tears coming down, 10:54 but she's not getting up, you know. 10:56 "Come to Jesus", 10:57 I'm, you know, appealing and appealing and appealing. 10:59 She's rocking and crying and rocking and crying. 11:02 And finally, after about 30 minutes, 11:04 up she popped, 11:05 but then we dismissed it, and it was done. 11:08 A couple of weeks later, no, a couple months later, 11:10 came back home, and we baptized her. 11:12 Wow. 11:13 And then my dad had a small heart incident. 11:18 And then in May, I came home, 11:21 we spent two days discussing 11:23 just the Word, flew back home in... 11:25 Drove back home in October from New York to Buffalo, 11:28 baptized him in ice cold water in Buffalo, New York 11:30 because the heater broke, 11:32 but I baptized him anyway, and I'm glad I did 11:34 because one month later, my mom said, 11:36 "Come home, your dad just passed." 11:38 So we got him in 30 days before he passed. 11:42 And I tell you, I tease Irma 11:43 because Irma's dad was also running from the Lord. 11:46 He gave his heart to the Lord two weeks 11:48 before he died, you know. 11:50 And so I said, "You've got to show off your dad. 11:52 My dad was 30 days, your dad two weeks." 11:54 Yeah, yeah, yeah. That king of a thing. 11:56 We tease like that, but both of us were so glad 11:58 that before they closed their eyes, 12:00 they both gave their hearts to the Lord. 12:01 Wow, praise the Lord for that. Yeah. 12:03 What made you want to go into ministry? 12:05 Always. 12:06 At age 10, a big storm came through Buffalo 12:11 and a bird's nest fell out of the tree. 12:13 And so we had a little funeral for this little baby bird, 12:16 you know, and that's when I delivered the eulogy 12:18 for the little bird, you know. 12:20 Wow. 12:21 And that was actually age nine, 12:24 from the time I did that little funeral, 12:25 our little group of kids for that baby bird, 12:27 we had a big funeral, man. 12:29 You remember what you said? I don't recall. 12:31 I just remember feeling very bad and saying, 12:34 "Boy, I want to do this, you know." 12:35 Wow. 12:37 And then watching the pastors at our church and listening 12:41 to what they said 12:43 and how people respond to do that, 12:45 it occurred to me that's what I wanted to do. 12:48 Yeah, very early. Wow, so early on. 12:50 And you've been now in ministry for how long? 12:54 Longer than I care to remember, 44 years. 12:59 Wow, okay. 13:01 And they seem so compressed, 30 years in New York City, 13:04 14 and change at 3ABN, and when you look back, 13:08 it seems like a snippet of time. 13:11 What are some stories, maybe some powerful testimonies 13:14 that you may have that you've witnessed? 13:17 You know, people coming to the Lord 13:19 or overcoming adversity. 13:22 What are some stories that you have? 13:24 You know, there are so many. 13:27 Every church that I pastored, 13:28 there were very, very strong stories. 13:33 I told this the other day to someone. 13:35 When I was pastoring, 13:37 one of my very first evangelistic crusades, 13:39 Sister Henrietta Austin 13:42 came running into my tent. 13:46 I remember because she's a tall woman. 13:49 If you take our Shelley Quinn is about six foot and slim. 13:53 If you take Shelley Quinn put about 75 pounds on her, 13:57 you got Henrietta Austin. 13:58 Not fat but just a big woman, you know, very attractive, 14:02 dressed very well. 14:03 I remember the first time I saw her, 14:04 she had on a red hat, red shoes, red bag, 14:07 blue two-piece suit with white piping. 14:10 It just stayed in my mind, that's years ago, 14:12 back in the 70s. 14:13 But she ran into the tent, and she sat down, 14:15 and she listened, 14:17 she came back the next night, she gave back the next night. 14:18 At the end of the meeting, 14:20 I think we baptized 57 in that meeting. 14:23 She was baptized. Wow. 14:25 She told me her story, she said, 14:27 "You know, the night I ran into your tent, 14:29 I was dating this guy, 14:30 and we were driving by the tent, 14:33 and we slowed down a little bit because we could hear 14:36 your voice coming out of the tent. 14:38 Well, about that time, he's getting all handsy, 14:40 you know, he's trying to kiss me 14:41 and touch me and rub on me and stuff. 14:42 So I jumped out of a car and ran into the tent 14:45 because I knew 14:46 he wouldn't follow me in there." 14:48 I remember because she ran into the tent, 14:50 you know, people just don't run into... 14:51 Really, but she ran into tent. 14:53 She said, "I had a fifth of Jack Daniels 14:55 or something in my bag 14:57 which I had half drunk before your meeting. 14:59 I finished it that night. 15:00 And that was the last time, 15:02 I ever touched liquor or alcohol 15:03 or cigarettes or anything." 15:05 And she stayed in the church, she was deaconess, 15:07 she loved the Lord, and sadly, she got Alzheimer's. 15:11 And she died sometime later. 15:13 But no one ever loved being 15:16 a Seventh-day Adventist Christian 15:17 more than Henrietta Austin while she could. 15:19 Wow. Wow. Wonderful, wonderful lady. 15:21 What other... 15:23 You got... 15:24 I know you have a lot of them. 15:25 In 44 years of ministry, I know you have a... 15:27 Tons of stories. Tons of stories. 15:29 Oh, my goodness. 15:30 In my book, "I Shall Fear No Evil", 15:33 I tell a story of a lady named Elisa. 15:35 This is when I was pastoring the Ephesus Church. 15:38 This is in the early days of AIDS, 15:40 when they really don't understand that disease. 15:43 She was diagnosed with AIDS, and I went to see her, 15:47 and what a godly woman. 15:49 She stands out in my mind because her husband had... 15:52 They had had a time 15:54 when they had had some arguments, 15:55 and he left the house. 15:56 And during that time, 15:58 he spent some time with other women. 16:00 He, of course, is not a Christian 16:01 and contracted HIV, brought it back to her, 16:05 and subsequently, she was diagnosed. 16:08 When I went to see her, he had wasted away. 16:12 They called it AIDS wasting. 16:14 In their early days, when they didn't know quite 16:15 how to treat disease, this happened a lot. 16:17 He was down to maybe 100 pounds. 16:19 He's a pretty good-sized man. Wow. 16:21 And had, as I counted, 16:22 I think about 20 different medications 16:24 because they were just trying things. 16:26 They didn't really know back in the 80s 16:27 what they were dealing with. 16:28 Well, she was there, 16:30 and that's when she told me that, 16:33 "I'm HIV positive." 16:36 And she wasn't angry, she was not upset, 16:39 she seems so calm in the Lord. 16:43 She said, "Pastor, I'm okay. I'm fine. 16:45 I trust the Lord. I love the Lord. 16:48 I've given my vows to this man. 16:51 He is sorry for what has happened. 16:53 He is paying for his sins. 16:55 I'm going to take care of him," which just blew me away, 16:57 I mean that kind of thing. 16:59 Yeah, that's huge. 17:00 Yeah, she said... 17:01 And I mean, she had to feed him, 17:03 she had to clean him, she had to diaper him, 17:05 she had to give him his medications. 17:07 She said, "The only thing I'm asking, Lord, 17:08 is I don't want that. 17:10 I don't want to end up like that." 17:12 She said, "I'm okay. I'm fine. I trust in the Lord." 17:15 And she was really just blowing me away 17:17 because her faith was so strong 17:19 and her stability was so strong, 17:20 she said, "I just don't want to be like that." 17:24 And we prayed together. 17:25 I remember going out to the car, 17:26 and I'm not a crier, but I cried in the car. 17:30 First of all, her faith was just overwhelming, 17:33 and her love for the Lord, and her statement, 17:36 "That's okay, you know, it's okay, 17:38 I know if I'm faithful, I'll have that." 17:40 So she was taking care of him. 17:41 Well, I got word, I had gone away for something. 17:44 I got word that she had gone into the hospital not knowing 17:47 how AIDS was, 17:50 usually on several hospital visits, 17:51 you know, you go in, you come out, 17:52 you go in, you come out. 17:54 So it didn't occur to me to rush back 17:56 because it was her first time in the hospital. 17:58 Well, when I got back, she was still there, 18:01 and right after that, she died. 18:04 And then talking with the doctor, 18:08 he said to me, 18:09 "I don't know why this woman is dead. 18:11 There is nothing wrong with her." 18:12 When he says that 18:13 there was no particular disease, 18:15 her T-cell count was off. 18:16 And, you know, but he said that, 18:18 "She's not sick enough to be dead. 18:20 I don't really understand." 18:22 And I told that doctor that was her wish. 18:26 So she went in a hospital, she closed her eyes, 18:29 she peacefully went to sleep. 18:30 Her husband lasted maybe six 18:32 or eight months longer wasting away, 18:34 you know, but she just went to sleep in the Lord. 18:36 So I've seen in New York City some great examples of faith, 18:40 great, great examples of faith of young people, 18:43 young and old, 18:45 who really locked in on the Lord. 18:49 You know, that kind of thing. 18:52 Many, many examples of people who gave up lifestyles. 18:57 When I was telling you before, there was a young man, 19:00 a deacon at my church 19:02 whose sister was caught in prostitution. 19:03 She was living in a house of prostitution, 19:05 and she called him and said, "I want to get out." 19:08 And so he came to me now, 30, 40 years later, 19:11 I probably wouldn't do this, 19:13 but back then we had to get this girl out, you know. 19:16 And so we dressed up like ninjas, you know. 19:19 We put on black clothes, black shoes, black sneakers, 19:21 you know. 19:23 Back in the day, when everybody was wearing Converse All-Stars, 19:26 you know, black sneakers, black hat, 19:28 you know, black, you know, kind of thing. 19:30 And she said, "I'll leave the back door unlocked." 19:33 And we tried the back door of the house 19:35 and, you know, dogs are barking. 19:37 We were getting kind of scared. So she couldn't come out. 19:41 So she appeared at the window, and she said, 19:43 "I'm going to jump." 19:44 You know, I was like, "Okay, we'll catch you." 19:46 Wow. She's on the second floor. 19:47 Second floor? 19:49 She hang jumped, you know, you hold off all you can. 19:51 So she didn't fall that far, 19:52 but luckily, she was not a big girl, 19:54 but we kind of joined our hands together. 19:56 She jumped, and we caught her, 19:57 and we really ran away with her, you know. 19:59 And then she went and stayed with her aunt for a while 20:02 till the heat got off, you know. 20:03 But I don't know 20:05 if I would do that at this point in my life. 20:06 Yeah, a lot more people have guns in their houses. 20:08 Precisely, yeah, yeah. 20:10 We could have gotten some trouble, 20:11 but back then when you're in your 20s, 20:13 you figure you're invincible. 20:14 You try that kind of stuff, you know. 20:16 Yes, yes. It was a blessing. 20:17 Wow. 20:19 Now you have a couple testimonies 20:20 of your own in your own life. 20:23 Tell us about the school you went to early on. 20:28 PS 71, 1st grade through 6. 20:33 I've always had poor eyesight, and the doctors are telling me 20:36 that I will probably go blind again 20:38 before this is all over. 20:40 And I told that to Irma when we started dating. 20:42 So I said, "You'd probably pushing me around 20:43 in a wheelchair or something." 20:46 But I started out with poor sight, 20:48 and then I went to first grade, 20:51 and we repeated first grade at blind school. 20:56 My sight had deteriorated. 20:57 They had to take me out of public school 20:59 and put me in school 21:01 for the nearsighted and totally blind. 21:05 You had to be a legally blind to be admitted to that school. 21:08 So we did the Braille thing. 21:09 I was trying to read Braille just the other day, 21:11 you know, you lose a touch in your fingers and, you know. 21:14 When you want to be mainline so badly, 21:16 I purposely never touched 21:17 a Braille book for years and years. 21:19 Now I found out I cannot do it, 21:20 you know, just I don't have that ability anymore. 21:23 But from first grade, first, 21:24 second, third, fourth, fifth, six, 21:27 I think I went back to public school 21:28 in the sixth grade, 21:30 almost as mysteriously as my eyes deteriorated, 21:32 they came back. 21:33 But they never came back fully. 21:35 So I wore glasses up until, contact lenses even though, 21:38 then contact lenses, 21:40 and then I had to get cataracts... 21:41 I have had 11 or so surgeries on my eyes over the years. 21:46 Wow. 21:48 I've had four since being at 3ABN, 21:49 five since being at 3ABN, including one just last month. 21:53 So it's something that is inevitable, 21:56 and I'm at peace with it. 21:57 I've been blind before, so I guess I can make it. 22:00 What was it like, 22:02 that initial shock factor, like, 22:04 when you couldn't see? 22:10 It deteriorated slowly, and when you're five, 22:15 you just kind of roll with it, you know. 22:17 I don't remember any particular sense of horror. 22:20 Now when I was pastoring the Springfield Gardens Church, 22:25 I was holding a meeting, 22:27 and in the middle of that meeting, 22:28 I went blind again. 22:31 I woke up Sunday morning 22:32 that I was going to preach Sabbath 22:35 and couldn't see 22:37 and had to call my next-door neighbor, 22:38 just yell at them and asked them to take me 22:40 to the emergency room 22:42 'cause I literally couldn't see. 22:44 And that's how I got to meet the eye doctor 22:47 that I had for 25 years, Dr. Michael J. Lieberman, 22:50 who was a Jewish eye doctor. 22:51 Uh-huh. 22:52 And the reason he was practicing on Sundays is 22:54 'cause he was closed on Saturday. 22:55 He is the only one in Long Island, New York, 22:57 that was there, and we became great friends, 23:00 had some great studies on Daniel 23:01 and some great debates 'cause his father was a rabbi. 23:03 Okay. 23:05 And over the years, when he was dilating my eyes, 23:06 and I had to sit still and quiet, 23:07 we'd go back and forth, 23:09 you know, 'cause he liked the idea, 23:10 we kept Sabbath, we didn't eat pork, 23:12 so we had this natural simpatico. 23:13 So we'd have some great debates, 23:14 you know, over for 25 years, a nice fellow. 23:17 And he took care of me 23:19 while I was in New York the whole time. 23:23 You've also had open-heart surgery too. 23:25 Oh, yeah. 23:26 We've had open-heart surgery, 23:29 six bypasses, the doctor said, 23:32 "You know, you're a fortunate fellow. 23:34 We don't usually get many sixes in here, 23:36 and they usually walk in. 23:37 I walked in and walked out." Yeah, praise the Lord for that. 23:41 We came and visited you in the hospital. 23:42 Indeed. Yeah, that was tough. 23:45 And you had so much faith, 23:47 you know, I remember asking you like, 23:50 "Are you nervous? 23:51 Are you scared? Are you worried?" 23:53 You said, "You know, I've got faith. 23:56 You know, I tell other people they got to have faith. 23:59 I believe in it, I got faith." 24:00 Yeah, you got to buy what you sell, man. 24:02 You got to buy. 24:04 Bradford, Elder Bradford, used to say, 24:05 "You know, you got to write checks, man, 24:07 you put all this money in a bank, 24:09 then sometimes you got to cash some stuff, 24:11 you know, you're going to write 24:12 some checks, just call on the Lord, 24:13 write a check, He'll cash it. 24:15 You can overdraw." 24:16 I want to shift gears a little bit. 24:17 We've got a short amount of time left, 24:20 roughly like three minutes, 24:22 but I want to talk about your tenure here at 3ABN 24:26 and some of the things 24:28 that you've experienced and lessons 24:29 that you've learned here at 3ABN. 24:32 I think one of the things I can say is that people 24:36 are more important than things. 24:39 The one thing that you notice at 3ABN is that 24:44 there are a group of people 24:45 who are hyper focused on mission. 24:47 The reason this ministry has been around so long 24:50 and enjoyed the kind of success, 24:52 and I use that term advisedly, 24:54 is because people are focused on mission. 24:57 This is not a perfect place 24:59 because there are no perfect places on earth. 25:01 Yet, there are a group of people here 25:04 who honestly try, and I think, succeed in serving the Lord. 25:07 And when they step on each other's toes, 25:10 as inevitably we will do 25:11 because television is so hypercritical 25:14 as far as time is concerned, they generally say, 25:17 "I'm sorry," and mean it. 25:19 You don't have people looking out 25:21 to tear other people down, 25:22 you don't have to look over your shoulder 25:24 where somebody's trying to catch up to you 25:25 and take your job. 25:26 You're free from that kind of thing 25:28 because you have people who really buy what they sell. 25:31 They really believe in serving the Lord 25:33 and they try to live lives worthy 25:35 of that calling. 25:39 For somebody who wants to get into ministry, 25:43 what advice would you have for them? 25:45 Take enough time to make sure 25:47 that you are in the calling of the Lord. 25:49 There are a lot of people who self-call. 25:52 There are a lot of people who burn out, 25:54 there are a lot of people who take their selves out 25:55 of the hands of the Lord 25:57 and try to run the engine by themselves. 26:00 Follow the Lord as opposed to leading Him. 26:04 Listen to what He has to say as opposed to telling Him 26:07 what you want from Him. 26:10 Test your call. 26:12 If the Lord wants you in ministry, 26:14 He will make it loud enough for you 26:16 to hear and understand. 26:18 And if you're a little hard of hearing, like Kevin was, 26:20 He will amplify His voice 26:23 until you hear what He wants you to do. 26:25 There are some who are not in ministry 26:27 who should be there. 26:28 There are many who are in ministry 26:29 who really have no business being there. 26:31 Make sure you're following the call of the Lord. 26:34 Pray about it, take good counsel from people 26:36 that you know know the Lord, 26:38 and then walk as far and as fast 26:41 as He will lead you, and you'll have success. 26:45 Amen. 26:46 How do you prepare your sermons ever so quickly? 26:49 We got like a short amount of time. 26:51 This is a power-packed question, 26:53 but very fast, 26:55 how do you prepare your sermons? 26:57 The best I can with my limited abilities, 26:59 I can't really tell... 27:00 We've got like a minute left, I mean, you can... 27:03 I don't know, I'm an inductive preacher. 27:05 Okay. 27:06 Which means, basically, 27:09 I put the ingredients together and say this is a pie. 27:13 There are some preachers who say, 27:14 "This is a pie, here is how we made it." 27:16 I'm the reverse. 27:18 I am, "Here's sugar, here's dough, 27:21 here is flour, here's... 27:23 Know what that is? That's a pie." 27:24 Now you may not mention 27:25 the word pie till 10 minutes down, 27:27 but you're gathering your ingredients, 27:29 and that's just... 27:31 Doing inductive preaching 27:32 is a little more comfortable for me 27:34 as opposed to deductive preaching. 27:36 That's pretty much all I can tell you. 27:38 Wow. 27:39 Well, one thing that I like about your sermons too 27:40 is like you incorporate a lot of your vocabulary, 27:44 basically, is impressive 27:47 because you look up these words, 27:49 then you talk about those words in the Greek, 27:51 and then the Hebrew, 27:53 and it's always teaching me something new. 27:54 Well, praise the Lord. 27:56 Our time has escaped us, 27:57 but I thank you for being with us. 27:59 And I want to thank you for joining us. 28:01 Join us next time, and remember, 28:02 it just wouldn't be the same without you. |
Revised 2018-08-02