Participants:
Series Code: UBR
Program Code: UBR200006S
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00:01 Have you ever had a secret that you guarded at all costs?
00:04 Well, stay tuned to meet a man 00:05 who's not only going to reveal his secret, 00:08 but he's going to share 00:09 how he gained the victory over it. 00:11 My name is Jason Bradley, 00:12 and you're watching Urban Report. 00:37 Hello and welcome to Urban Report. 00:39 Today's program is one that is sensitive in nature 00:42 and viewer discretion is advised. 00:44 If you are a parent and you have young children, 00:46 we suggest that you watch this program first 00:49 and then determine whether or not 00:51 it is suitable for your children. 00:53 My guests today are Michael Carducci, 00:55 co-founder of Coming Out Ministries 00:57 and Harrison Umana, 00:59 one of the associate speakers of Coming Out Ministries. 01:03 Welcome to Urban Report, guys. 01:04 It's great to be here. 01:05 Thank you so much for the invitation. 01:07 Oh, you're welcome. It's great to have you here. 01:08 Mike, you're no stranger. 01:10 Harrison, this is your first time. 01:12 And we're gonna dive into your journey. 01:15 But first, I want to reintroduce Mike 01:18 to the Dare to Dream family. 01:20 And just share a little bit about your journey, Mike, 01:23 and a little bit about Coming Out Ministries? 01:24 Sure. 01:26 Coming Out Ministry started 10 years ago. 01:27 As I was coming back into Adventism 01:30 after being in the gay culture for over 20 years, 01:33 I thought surely there was some resources 01:35 for people like me. 01:37 And unfortunately, there wasn't, 01:39 but I did meet other individuals, 01:41 for other individuals 01:42 that had ministries of their own. 01:43 And we all got together in Socal California 01:46 and we decided that wow, 01:47 if you know, if one testimony is good, 01:49 then multiple testimonies has to be better. 01:51 And that's how Coming Out Ministry started. 01:54 We met Harrison in Costa Rica a few years ago 01:58 and that was an amazing opportunity, 02:02 and our ministry has gone internationally, 02:04 recognizing that this issue 02:06 isn't just related to the LGBT issue, 02:09 but all sexual immorality. 02:11 And yeah. Yeah. 02:12 And that now you said something a minute ago, 02:14 I want to rewind a little bit, because you said, 02:16 and you were in the gay culture, 02:18 how did you end up? 02:19 What was your childhood like? And what led to that? 02:21 Sure. 02:23 Well, at my earliest thoughts, 02:24 I thought that I was a girl trapped in a boy's body. 02:26 And I struggled with this identity issue, 02:29 I was surrounded by femininity. 02:31 My dad was gone a lot because he was in the Navy. 02:33 But when he was home, he was abusive, loud and angry. 02:36 And so, as I was a little boy 02:37 looking for the gender stamping of masculinity, 02:41 my dad was the example and it was frightening to me, 02:44 I didn't want to be like him. So, I chose to be like my mom. 02:46 But all of that happened before I was even conscious. 02:49 So, by the time I was conscious, 02:51 I thought I was a girl trapped in a boy's body. 02:54 So, I prayed that God would change me, 02:55 I prayed that God would make everything all right, 02:57 but that never happened. 02:59 But as I was developing, 03:00 I was desperate for the love that I needed from my dad. 03:03 And then when the kids saw my feminine mannerisms, 03:05 because I was patterning after my mom, 03:08 they would call me sissy, queer little girl. 03:10 And all of that push masculinity 03:12 even further away from me. 03:14 And so, by the time puberty came, 03:16 the sex it was a mystery for me, 03:17 wasn't women at all, 03:19 it was actually my own. 03:20 And so that became sexualized. 03:21 I didn't even know any of that 03:23 until after I was well into my 40s. 03:25 And walking in a relationship with Jesus Christ 03:27 that the Bible started to confirm science 03:30 and the two of them were going together 03:32 and opened up my eyes to what was really going on. 03:34 And some of the ways and reasons 03:36 why I ended up in the gay culture 03:38 for over 20 years. 03:39 Wow. 03:40 And so how did you end up gaining the victory? 03:44 You know, wouldn't it be great if God had a magic wand 03:46 and ping and everything is just over 03:49 and settled. 03:50 But, you know what was so, 03:52 so wonderful about Jesus as He's so patient, 03:54 and He's long suffering and he really, 03:56 I really mean that, 03:58 He suffers long in the process of me 04:00 getting that right and finding that victory. 04:02 He had to address all of the pain 04:04 and the rejection that I had gone 04:06 through all of my life beginning with my dad, 04:08 the kids in school, the identity, 04:11 confusion that I had. 04:13 And as He started to address all of that, then it's like, 04:15 you know what? 04:17 I started to resist God less. I started to see Him working. 04:20 And as I was being filled with the masculine love 04:22 that I needed from my Savior in a healthy way, 04:25 then other things started to leave, 04:26 but it was a process. 04:28 Jason, it wasn't, you know, all of a sudden, 04:30 it was gone for my convenience. 04:31 But it's amazing to submit to that process and recognize 04:35 that God promises 04:37 to finish the work that He started. 04:38 Amen, amen. 04:39 Okay, now fast forwarding to when you met Harrison, 04:43 you were invited to Costa Rica? 04:45 Our ministry was invited by GYC Costa Rica, 04:48 and I remember getting off the plane 04:50 and there's Harrison and his brother and a friend 04:53 to meet us coming off the plane 04:54 and they were showing us around the islands 04:58 or the area of Costa Rica 04:59 and it was amazing to meet Harrison. 05:02 He's such a well put together elder in his church 05:05 and a very conscientious incredibly humble, 05:08 and I had no ideas 05:11 what was really going on 05:12 behind the scenes kind of thing, but... 05:14 He looks like he never had a problem 05:16 in his life. 05:17 Look at him. He's perfect. 05:19 Exactly. 05:21 So, Harrison, what was your childhood like? 05:24 Well, I was born. 05:25 Well, first, I want to thank you 05:27 for the invitation 3ABN for bringing me here. 05:33 Really, my childhood was normal, 05:37 as the people could see, 05:39 could see that I was born in an Adventist home. 05:44 But it was not 05:45 what the people could even wait for, 05:51 for family. 05:53 Because my family, my parents, 05:55 they were always involved in many discussions, 05:59 problems where we were at home, 06:01 but when we went to church 06:05 and the different activities that we have on the church, 06:09 different child, etc, etc. 06:15 We, well, I, it was very difficult for me 06:21 because my identity as a Christian 06:25 was mixed up in a way 06:28 that when we were at the church, 06:31 I said, Well, my parents say to me, 06:34 please be quiet, be respectful. 06:37 This is the church when we were, when we get home, 06:40 it was a sort of, it used to very different. 06:44 So, your parents didn't get along at home or? 06:48 No, no, 06:49 they even have different province 06:52 before the marriage, 06:54 they came from difficult families, 06:57 broken families. 06:59 And so, they were carrying those kind of problems 07:02 to our new family. 07:05 Was there violence in your home? 07:07 Yes. 07:09 There was a time when, 07:11 when, well, my parents, most of my, 07:14 my dad, well, you know, the physical violence 07:19 and so those were words 07:24 and the kind of things towards my mom. 07:29 And so, there was a moment that I was so tired about it 07:35 even when I was a child. 07:37 Maybe you had like eight or nine years old 07:39 and I was deciding myself to not be like any one of them. 07:45 I used to say, God, 07:47 I just don't want to be like them, 07:49 I need to be different. 07:50 So how would you say 07:52 that witnessing the emotional abuse 07:55 and the verbal abuse and the physical abuse? 07:58 How did that affect you and how did you cope with it? 08:01 Well, I really, as I'm saying, I didn't want to do the same. 08:08 And I say, if I'm going to get married, 08:10 I don't want to come to a situation like this. 08:12 I don't know how to do it, but I need to be different. 08:17 But at that moment, 08:19 I started to be 08:21 a little bit away from my parents, 08:25 even was very difficult for me to say I love you 08:30 or so because everything that I saw in my home 08:35 was problems and problems and problems. 08:38 So, I say I am not receiving the love 08:43 that I really needed at the time. 08:45 So, I could not give to them 08:47 the love that a child or a son can give to them too. 08:52 So, it was difficult. 08:54 Did you have siblings or do you have siblings? 08:57 Yes. Yes, two brothers. 08:59 But did you feel the need 09:00 to be protective over your siblings? 09:03 Yes, in some cases, the most part of them. 09:08 My, well, I have two brothers. 09:12 You're the oldest, right? Yes, I'm the oldest one. 09:15 So, they kept on the room when they were discussing them, 09:21 when the things head up or weren't up, 09:26 you know, 09:28 I went there when they were discussing on 09:31 even hearing disorder. 09:33 And so I used, 09:34 I was in the middle of them 09:36 tried to avoid those kind of things. 09:39 And my brothers, 09:41 they were used to keep on the room. 09:43 So, Harrison, I'm not clear on something 09:45 and I think it's just the language, 09:47 when their discussion is different from an argument. 09:49 Right. 09:51 So, were they arguing 09:52 or were they just having a discussion? 09:56 Well, discussion. 09:57 Discussion, but then 09:59 they were starting to fight physically. 10:01 Okay. So, it sounds like an argument. 10:03 Yes, like an argument. Yeah, right. 10:04 Yes. Yeah. 10:06 And it's, and you learned, you just learned English? 10:09 Yes. How long ago. 10:10 I think we should, we should mention that too. 10:12 What, two years ago? 10:14 Two years ago. Two years ago? 10:16 Two years and a half, something like that. 10:17 Well, I hope that my Spanish one day 10:19 is like your English is. 10:21 Yeah. So, so continue. 10:23 So, as you're, you know, 10:24 you're witnessing this emotional abuse, 10:26 this physical abuse, 10:27 you're feeling the need 10:28 to protect your younger siblings 10:31 from time to time, 10:33 and you're seeing two different sets of people. 10:37 One set at church, one set at home. 10:41 And so now, 10:42 you know, the Bible says 10:44 a double minded man is unstable in all his ways. 10:46 And so, now you have 10:48 kind of a double mindedness because you're nothing. 10:52 It sounds like there was a lack of stability 10:55 in the home. 10:56 And so how did that affect you going forward 11:00 in terms of sexuality or masturbation or pornography? 11:05 How, when and how did that come into play? 11:09 Well, as you said 11:11 there was not stability spiritually. 11:16 Even me being in Adventist's home 11:18 and I thought that everything was okay 11:22 with God if I participated on adventure clubs 11:26 or pathfinder clubs 11:28 or being in that children's choir 11:31 or something like that, 11:33 so I thought that everything by myself was good to God 11:37 that though having that relationship 11:42 with God 11:44 going to the school, 11:46 I remember one time with my classmates, 11:50 they were talking in the time when they nap. 11:57 So, they were talking about, one of them was talking about, 12:03 hey, guys, do you, did you practice masturbation? 12:09 Or even, did you watch pornography? 12:12 So, this is at school? Yes, at the school. 12:15 That goes to the point of why Coming Out Ministries 12:18 is so relevant to 12:20 because people are learning things at school, 12:22 in the streets, that, you know, 12:24 some parents are scared to talk about, 12:26 some churches don't touch the subject. 12:29 And so, continue 12:31 'cause that really goes to the point. 12:33 I'm really curious how old were you? 12:35 I was like 11. 12:37 Eleven years old. Eleven years old. 12:39 So that's like, what? Sixth grade? 12:41 Yeah. Yeah, sixth grade. 12:43 And then was this in a Christian school? 12:46 No, it was public school. Public school? 12:48 Okay. But still, right. 12:50 Yes. Yeah. 12:51 So it was, it was a curiosity for me. 12:56 I didn't know what he was talking about. 12:59 And so when I went to, to my home, 13:02 I just was thinking, 13:04 what did he say 13:05 that and then when he explained 13:08 a little bit of what was going on, 13:11 my parents, they didn't have, at that time, 13:15 they didn't have the confidence to talk about, 13:18 about that to us. 13:20 And so, while I fail on that curiosity, 13:25 so I tried to, to get that pornography, 13:29 and also, I experiencing the masturbation. 13:34 And so, I thought at the moment that it was a matter of men, 13:39 so I said, well, this is something normal, 13:42 this is something that should happen in a... 13:47 in our teenage years. 13:48 So, this is not a big deal. 13:50 So, you thought it was something naturally, 13:52 you know, it's interesting 13:53 how sin is kind of a downward spiral, 13:56 not kind of, it is a downward spiral 13:59 and you start with one thing, 14:01 and then it just keeps going and going 14:04 or the frequency increases. 14:06 So, you know, you were curious about it. 14:09 You tried it. 14:11 Did you continue that? Was it a frequent thing? 14:14 What happened? 14:15 Yes, it was so frequent, was so frequent. 14:18 Even it was at that kind of, 14:21 of children who make fun for those 14:26 who were not practicing those things. 14:28 It's interesting. 14:29 I've just recently heard a story of a mother son. 14:33 And she, he wanted to quit looking at pornography 14:36 and indulging in it 14:37 and he went to an Adventist school 14:39 to an academy. 14:40 But when he went back, 14:41 and he was telling his friends 14:43 that he didn't want to look at porn anymore, 14:44 they were making fun of him, 14:46 they were jeering him and they go, 14:47 you're so religious, 14:48 who do you think you are, Jesus, 14:50 and they're giving this kid a hard time 14:51 in a Christian school 14:52 because he's wanting to give up pornography. 14:54 And it's interesting because especially 14:56 coming from a Latin culture, 14:58 there's this machismo that for guys, 15:01 it's acceptable to objectify women 15:03 or to look at pornography. 15:05 It's like a rite of passage 15:06 but that also seeps into our... 15:08 That's in American culture too. 15:09 Exactly. Exactly. 15:11 Yeah. Yeah, yeah. 15:12 So, continue. Yes. 15:14 So, I was getting used to do that. 15:19 I remember one time when one of those classmate, 15:23 the, I was making fun of him. 15:26 And right now, I am understanding 15:28 what really happened at that time 15:30 because he said to me, 15:31 that that's not normal, that's not good. 15:34 That is something that we should not practice. 15:38 And it was so why is he saying that? 15:42 At that moment, I didn't understand 15:43 what he was saying. 15:45 But right now, I know that his parents, 15:48 they do care about those issues with him... 15:52 They had the discussion with him. 15:53 Right. 15:55 So, they had the right conversation to him. 16:01 And so, I now recognize and understand 16:05 that how important is that the parents 16:09 talk about these issues even at that, that age, 16:15 you know, and even it needs to be earlier 16:20 because I have seen even children of six years old 16:26 talking about sex. 16:28 And so, this is Satan is attacking a lot. 16:31 Yeah. 16:32 And it's happening earlier and earlier and earlier. 16:36 For you, did pornography end up 16:38 leading to other things sexually? 16:41 Sure. 16:43 When I was 13 years old, my parents they, 16:47 they divorced when I was that age. 16:52 I remember that the thoughts that I had was, 16:56 and I had like, 16:58 one year and a half been into pornography 17:00 and masturbation and I said to myself, 17:04 I don't want to die if, 17:05 I want to have sex with sex with a woman. 17:11 I don't want to die before that, before I die. 17:15 So, I was thinking that at that age. 17:18 So that was like on your bucket list basically. 17:20 Wow, wow. Never heard that before. 17:22 Wow. Yeah. 17:23 And so, it is something that lead me 17:28 to when it wasn't how to, 17:31 how to fail on that too 17:35 on the sexual activity, 17:39 but I was thinking 17:41 that everything was normal about it. 17:45 A few years later, I was thinking, 17:48 no, I really need to have a wife 17:51 to do those things but my mind was thinking 17:54 that the wife was also was only for that. 18:01 I wanted to get married only to get some. 18:05 Okay. Okay. 18:06 So, you didn't have the proper representation 18:10 or the proper understanding of marriage 18:12 and you didn't have that really in your home 18:15 a healthy marriage that you could witness. 18:18 That's right. 18:19 Yeah, that's, that's interesting. 18:21 That's interesting. 18:22 Let's shift gears into your career choice. 18:25 Right? 18:27 Because didn't you, did, okay, 18:28 you left the church to pursue a career in music? 18:31 Well, exactly, I left the church 18:34 because I was tired. 18:36 I was 19 years old and as I was saying to you 18:41 that I wanted to keep being part of the, 18:46 of the different activities of my church like pathfinders, 18:50 master guide of clubs and etc. 18:53 And so, I said, 18:56 why my life is only this, is only and only and only this. 19:00 So, I said, I don't want more of this, 19:03 I need to leave. 19:04 I just want to know what the world offers to me. 19:09 So I went out, I started to frequent bars, 19:12 get drunk, pairing with my friends, 19:16 but then eventually I started to have some 19:23 why I like it so much the music but this comes, 19:27 did came from my childhood even been in Adventist home 19:32 mostly what my parents they were used to, 19:36 to listen Christian and also worldly music. 19:39 So, even for that 19:41 there was not a difference for me was like, 19:44 okay, well one talks about Jesus, 19:46 the other one not but everything is okay. 19:50 So, at that moment I wanted to pursue, 19:54 to be known, to be even worship because I, at the moment 20:00 I wanted to be a DJ. 20:02 Wanted to be a DJ? 20:04 Yes, I wanted to be a DJ for electronic music 20:07 and, and so that was my desire to be, 20:14 to be worship to be 20:16 because I did not receive the love that I needed 20:19 to see from my parents. 20:21 So, I wanted to get the love 20:23 from the different people around me. 20:25 So, you were craving that attention, 20:27 that attention 20:28 that you were so desperately lacking 20:30 as a child. 20:31 And you were getting some attention, 20:33 you were making music for your friends, 20:34 you were mixing tapes. 20:36 And, yeah, so you were getting 20:37 a lot of not only attention from them 20:39 but you were good at it. 20:40 Yes. 20:42 It was, the first time it was difficult for me 20:43 because the most part of my childhood 20:46 I was quiet and, you know, 20:50 that the example or the model 20:55 of how to be, you know, 20:57 because even the people of the church 21:00 they were like, 21:02 oh, you are such a blessing for us in the church, 21:06 you are so spiritual, you are so good guy. 21:10 They thought that it was complete. 21:14 You know, like, like you say to me, like, 21:16 oh, you look so good, you look so... 21:20 Perfect. Perfect. 21:22 So spiritual 21:23 and so they thought the same bit. 21:25 So, you're living a double life. 21:28 Right. Even in my childhood. 21:30 And what point did you get tired 21:32 of leading that double life? 21:35 Well, that was when I left the church. 21:38 So, I started to be, 21:42 well, to show a little bit how it was, 21:46 what was inside of me, 21:49 but about the sexual things I kept that secret 21:52 even when it was out of the church 21:55 because I was not sexual active when it was out there. 22:01 But anyways, the pornography and masturbation was going on. 22:06 Because at the moment when I was 19, 22:08 I got my first cell phone with all internet, 22:14 you know, so I, I had well, 22:18 infinity of possibilities to get that information 22:22 Yeah, it was very accessible. 22:26 At what point did God get a hold of your life? 22:30 One time 22:32 when I returned to church again, 22:36 because I went to visit my friends one time 22:41 and the pastor, 22:42 he was preaching a sermon that really touched my heart 22:47 and he said, well, I really need to return to God. 22:52 If I keep doing what I'm doing right now, 22:55 I will not return anymore. 22:57 So, I think this is the time to do it. 23:00 So, when I return, 23:05 I still failed that what I, 23:09 what I was doing 23:10 was not right at the sight of Jesus, 23:14 that I say, Well, 23:16 anyways, and I'm human, I am sinner. 23:20 So, I think that God, 23:22 really understand that this is a weird thing 23:25 that I will keep doing until He comes. 23:30 So basically in other words, 23:31 and I just want to kind of sum up 23:33 what you're saying is that 23:34 even when you came back to God, 23:36 you still had struggles 23:38 and you started to justify those struggles, 23:41 just, you know, basically saying 23:43 that God will understand I'm a sinner, 23:45 and, you know, I'll keep doing this, 23:48 I'm still struggling, 23:49 but you know, He'll understand. 23:52 And so, continuing on with that, 23:55 like, how did you come out of that? 23:58 Yes, I met some friends on my church. 24:05 Well, not in my local church, 24:06 but different churches that they were, 24:10 they really wanted to have a relationship with God. 24:14 So that made that difference in me. 24:16 I really wanted that, I saw them how they, 24:21 how they were pursuing that. 24:23 So, I wanted to do that. 24:24 And so, when they, when they started with me 24:28 many things of the Bible 24:30 deeper that I started before. 24:35 I say not really, 24:37 this is not something that God really liked. 24:40 Yeah. 24:41 And I should do something else. 24:46 But at that moment, I didn't know how to... 24:49 Yeah. How to make that transition. 24:50 How to make it. Yeah. 24:51 And so, in my church I was having, 24:55 you know, those positions being a deacon and being, 25:00 eventually I came to be an elder. 25:04 Elder. 25:06 So, that was the moment when I knew about UAC. 25:11 And so, the UAC people really helped me about it. 25:16 I still was keeping that secret, 25:21 no one knew about that. 25:25 But I was now struggling. 25:27 I really wanted to do something, 25:29 but I didn't know how to do it. 25:30 Yeah, yeah. 25:32 I can't believe our time is almost escaping us. 25:35 How did you end up doing something about it? 25:42 Like how did you end up to the point 25:44 where it was like enough is enough? 25:47 Yes, when I met Coming Out Ministries 25:49 when they came to Costa Rica, 25:52 I really saw how they had these, 25:55 these deeper, more deeper than the other group 26:01 because for me it was so difficult 26:03 to understand that I gave could overcome that sin. 26:08 So, I say if they can have that victory, I can have it, 26:12 but how they can have it. 26:14 So, I was their driver 26:16 when they were there in Costa Rica. 26:18 So, I had plenty time to see what was their life. 26:23 Yes. 26:24 And so, keeping that relationship, 26:26 praying, studying the Bible, 26:28 but I knew that it was something else, 26:31 it was more than that. 26:33 So, at the time, 26:35 I started to have victory over it. 26:39 And praise, praise the Lord for that. 26:41 You know, it sounds like once your, 26:43 your friends had changed. 26:45 You know, they were studying the Bible more, 26:47 it kind of inspired you 26:48 to study the Bible more as well. 26:50 You met Mike and Coming Out Ministries 26:53 and you saw how they were living 26:54 and you saw what they were able to gain 26:56 the victory over through Christ 26:58 and that helped inspire you too. 27:01 Thank you for sharing your powerful testimony. 27:03 Mike, people can invite you guys 27:05 to speak at their churches. 27:08 How do they send you an email? 27:10 Yeah, ComingOutMinistries.org is our website, 27:13 they can also email us at Admin@ComingOutMinistries.org. 27:19 And we'd be happy to line that up 27:22 and to talk to them about setting up an event. 27:25 And schools, churches? 27:26 Schools, churches, pastors' retreats. 27:29 Yeah, anything, 27:30 anything that has to do with educating our young people 27:33 about the biblical sexuality 27:35 that God wants for each one of us. 27:38 There was, I, I know you're out of time 27:41 but there was this one thing that we just started doing 27:43 with grade schoolers 27:45 talking about the affirmation of gender identity 27:48 and how God created the male and female 27:50 and it's really beautiful. 27:52 That's huge. These little kids understand. 27:53 I hope people will find out more about that. 27:55 We are out of time. 27:57 Until next time, God bless. |
Revised 2020-05-21