Participants:
Series Code: UBR
Program Code: UBR210024S
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00:01 Is your life headed in the wrong direction?
00:02 Well, stay tuned to meet a couple 00:04 whose mission is to get you back on track 00:07 physically and spiritually. 00:09 My name is Jason Bradley, 00:10 and you're watching Urban Report. 00:35 Hello and welcome to Urban Report. 00:37 My guests today are Pastor James Rafferty, 00:40 3ABN Director of Discipleship and Rise Rafferty, 00:45 and she is with 3ABN Health Ministries. 00:49 Welcome to Urban Report. 00:50 Thank you. 00:52 Good to be here Jason. 00:53 It's great to have you here. 00:54 You know, you've given me such a hard time 00:56 on Salvation in Symbols and Signs Pastor Rafferty, 00:59 always pop quiz... 01:01 Thank you. Thank you. 01:02 My pleasure. 01:03 But it's been incredible, 01:06 we recorded I think 112 episodes. 01:09 Wow, really? 01:11 Yes. 01:12 Yeah. So we spent a lot of time together. 01:13 We have. 01:15 'Cause he insists on sitting next to me on the set. 01:17 Well, yes, that's because I knew 01:19 you're gonna be throwing some darts 01:21 so I figured the closer that I was the better, 01:24 the better, maybe I could look at your notes or something. 01:27 He does a lot of praying for me too, for all of us. 01:29 Absolutely. Absolutely. 01:31 So, but it's great to have you both here 01:33 and you're a part of the 3ABN team 01:36 in another capacity now. 01:38 That's amazing. Yes. 01:39 We're so blessed. Yes. 01:40 We just joined May 20th. 01:42 I mean I know the date, 01:43 I don't know the day, yeah, it was Tuesday. 01:44 Okay. 01:46 I think it was Tuesday. 01:47 I have to check on that in my calendar 01:49 and we're really being what? 01:51 Integrated I guess initiated, this three weeks, 01:56 because we have a lot of programs 01:57 that we're doing morning, noon and evening. 01:59 Yes. 02:01 And camp meeting weekends, 02:02 morning, noon, evening and weekends. 02:04 So, yeah, it's a real blessing to be here. 02:06 Yes, so, it's a blessing to have you and Rise. 02:09 This is, I haven't had much interaction 02:12 with you not as much as Pastor Rafferty. 02:15 In fact, I used to tease Pastor Rafferty all the time 02:18 on Salvation in Symbol, well, offset and... 02:23 When we were on the set 02:24 for Salvation in Symbols and Signs 02:26 and so it's nice to be able to sit down with you 02:28 and now talk to you about your role here with 3ABN. 02:32 So tell us a little bit about what you do here? 02:34 I was the imaginary wife. 02:36 That's right. That's right. 02:37 Yes. 02:38 I used to always tell them 02:40 that, are you sure you're married? 02:42 Does she really exist? 02:44 And then I finally met you, I think in ASI or GYC 02:48 or something. 02:49 Yes, yes. So tell us about what you do? 02:51 So my capacity here is under health ministries. 02:53 Yes. 02:54 Developing programs 02:55 and that would promote education 02:58 that pertains to physical health. 03:00 But I think that physical health 03:01 has a lot to do with your spiritual health as well. 03:04 Yes. 03:05 So anyways, that's what we're gonna be doing 03:06 is focused on meetings 03:09 that programs that will generate education 03:12 and help people physically flourish. 03:14 I love it. 03:15 And you have quite a few letters 03:17 behind your name. 03:18 What's going on with all of that 03:19 and will you break it down? 03:21 Yeah, they're not a big deal. 03:22 It just means that I became 03:24 a registered dietician nutritionist, 03:25 RDN and then I got my masters. 03:26 Yes. 03:28 Nice. Okay. 03:29 And, Pastor Rafferty, 03:30 let's go back into your childhood, 03:33 your upbringing and all of that, 03:34 because, you know, we've seen you on Salvation 03:37 in Symbols and Signs and your passion 03:39 for spreading the gospel. 03:41 How did all of that come into play? 03:42 Well, a lot of it is based on my upbringing. 03:44 I was raised in a Catholic home, 03:46 and I can relate a lot to Martin Luther, 03:49 Hus, Jerome, a lot of the reformers 03:51 who were part of the Catholic Church 03:53 and when they were growing their Christian experience 03:57 they went through, 03:59 as I think we all do a difficult time 04:01 trying to earn God's favor. 04:03 You know, we do different things 04:05 to try to make God love us and accept us 04:11 and be merciful to us. 04:12 And I found myself as raised in Catholic 04:17 as a young man falling into that. 04:19 You know, going to confession, 04:20 you know, saying prayers of repentance, 04:23 doing pain, you know, different things even. 04:26 You know, my favorite thing 04:28 when I was a kid to eat was potato chips. 04:29 Everyone was buying candy, I was eating potato chips. 04:31 And for Lent, which is a 40 days of, 04:34 you know, before Easter, 04:35 that you kind of give up something special. 04:37 I gave up potato chips, you know? 04:38 So, I found myself falling into that. 04:41 And, like Luther, like Hus, like Jerome, 04:43 like Wycliffe, like a lot of these reformers, 04:46 these early reformers who were in Catholicism. 04:50 The revelation of Christ's righteousness 04:53 and salvation through justification by faith 04:55 was real, that it wasn't just a doctrine. 04:57 It was something that was real 04:58 because it transformed their lives. 05:01 It transformed their hearts. 05:03 That's why they gave everything for that, 05:05 you know, their lives, and their livelihoods. 05:08 And when I became a believer, 05:10 and this is before I became an Adventist. 05:12 When I accepted Christ as my personal Savior 05:14 and I experienced righteousness by faith, 05:16 justification by faith. 05:18 I felt that burden of guilt lifted off me 05:21 as I'd never experienced it before. 05:23 And it just caused me to fall in love with Jesus. 05:25 I just loved Him. I loved His Word. 05:27 And it was the bedrock, 05:29 the foundation for my experience, 05:30 Christian experience. 05:32 Amen. 05:33 And so how often did you find yourself studying God's Word, 05:36 especially during that transitional period 05:39 from Catholicism to Adventism? 05:41 Well, beginning with my first initial conversion experience, 05:46 I probably didn't study the Word of God 05:48 hardly at all, initially. 05:50 My mom, my mother sent me a Bible. 05:53 I said mom, because mom, 05:54 because I was raised in England. 05:56 And that's what, and I read it in 1983. 06:00 And I read John Chapter 1. 06:03 And I couldn't understand it by the time 06:05 we got to the end of that chapter. 06:06 So I just put it on the shelf for a year. 06:07 And I said, you know, that's not for the... 06:09 That's for the priest. 06:10 But a year later, as I had become a Christian, 06:14 my sister was involved in this, 06:17 what I considered at the time occult. 06:19 I was going to a Calvary Chapel Church 06:21 and she was going to this church 06:23 that went to church on Saturdays, right? 06:24 And then she started telling me about, 06:26 you know, you shouldn't really meet, 06:27 it's not that great for you. 06:29 And then she started telling me about, 06:30 you know, I shouldn't listen to rock and roll music 06:31 and I said, wow. 06:33 My sister must be involved in some kind of occult. 06:34 So that's when I started getting really interested 06:36 in studying the Word of God. 06:37 In fact, I was challenged to study with the Bible worker 06:40 from her church, which happened to be. 06:42 I don't know if you've heard of it, 06:43 the Seventh-day Adventist Church. 06:45 Oh, absolutely. 06:46 Right? 06:48 So they were wanting to study the Bible with me and I said, 06:49 I'm going to take them up on this challenge. 06:50 I'm going to study with them, I'm going to figure out 06:52 where they're off, where they're off biblically. 06:54 And then I'll get my sister out of this church, 06:56 out of this occult, you know, I thought. 06:57 So that's when I really started studying the Bible 07:00 and seeking to understand God's Word 07:03 in ways that I'd never done before in my life. 07:05 And I was on it all the time. 07:06 They were giving me, we had weekly studies 07:08 and they started giving me two studies 07:09 a week instead of one. 07:11 And then I started going to Bible studies with them, 07:12 I was just eating up the Word of God. 07:15 It's interesting because 07:17 you were studying to be able to prove your sister wrong. 07:20 But God used that to convict you of the truth 07:23 found in His Word. 07:24 Absolutely. It was amazing. 07:26 That's incredible. 07:27 And so, with that passion now you are... 07:29 Tell us about your role here and what that entails? 07:32 Well, Discipleship Ministry is what God has called us to, 07:34 Christ has called us to, He says, 07:36 you know, go ye to all the world 07:37 and make disciples of all men, 07:39 teaching them all things, 07:40 what I've commanded you and baptizing them 07:42 in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. 07:44 Discipleship Ministry is a little different 07:46 from pastoral, even evangelistic ministry. 07:49 It focuses on the one on one, and I just have a real burden. 07:52 I've been a Christian now, 07:54 born again Christian for 37 years 07:56 and I've learned so much. 07:57 Been in so many different settings, 08:00 traveled all over the world, 08:01 but in a lot of different cultures, 08:03 come out of Catholicism, 08:04 studied with different religions, 08:06 Jehovah Witnesses and Church of Christ, 08:08 you name it. 08:09 And so, I really feel a burden, 08:12 a desire to pass on to others the things 08:15 that God show me, taught me the things 08:18 I've experienced this wisdom I've learned. 08:20 So discipleship ministry is just connecting with people, 08:23 maybe one on one in small groups, 08:25 and interacting with them in the Word of God 08:27 answering their questions, 08:28 following up with them in email discussions and Bible studies. 08:32 Just here while I've been here, 08:34 there was a couple that came out here 08:35 from California and they were, 08:37 you know, touring and interacting 08:39 and here for a special event. 08:41 And they, we connected, 08:42 we spent a couple hours together, 08:44 they connected with Rise on health, 08:45 one of them did and, 08:46 and we exchanged contact information. 08:49 They've just, you know, sent me a email, 08:51 I really wanna have those Bible studies one on one. 08:53 How to study the Bible, 08:54 and so I'm going to be sending that to him. 08:56 That's the kind of thing 08:57 discipleship ministry is all about. 08:59 Yeah, that is huge. 09:00 And, Rise, what was 09:03 or what had the greatest influence 09:06 on you positive influence 09:08 in regards to your relationship with God? 09:11 Well, other than my mama, because she was a praying mom, 09:14 and I remember just growing up, 09:16 always seeing her kneeling down before she went to work. 09:18 And I knew she was praying for me. 09:20 So, that memory always stuck with me. 09:23 But like James, the Word of God, the gospel, 09:27 when I understood and learned the beauty 09:30 and the simplicity of the gospel, 09:32 as a young adult, it definitely transformed me. 09:36 Yeah. 09:37 And I fell in love 09:39 with the Word of God for myself. 09:40 I grew up in Adventist, but while I was exposed, right? 09:45 And it was my tradition, it was my culture and so forth. 09:48 And I definitely had a period of time 09:50 where it wasn't necessarily a personal walk for me. 09:53 So when I went away, I grew up born and raised in Loma Linda. 09:58 So definitely the culture, 09:59 you know, was in the environment 10:01 and everything. 10:02 Lot of Adventists there, big church, 10:04 then I thought my first year of college, 10:06 I really wanted to see beyond that 10:08 kind of get out of the culture. 10:11 But at the same time, 10:12 I went to an Adventist College in England. 10:16 And that exposed me to a lot of different cultures. 10:19 And had a really wonderful experience there. 10:22 But it was there, 10:24 that my personal walk with God began 10:27 and it was kind of interesting how it was initiated, 10:29 because wasn't something I was necessarily looking for, 10:35 but God saw me. 10:37 And I think that's so cool. 10:39 Sometimes I think about Zacchaeus, 10:41 you know, kind of obscure, high up in a tree. 10:43 Maybe having some interest, some inclination, 10:47 but still feeling like a big sinner. 10:48 You know, like, I can't really, 10:50 I can't hang out with the everyone else 10:53 because of my sin, and etc. 10:55 So I kind of sometimes relate to that. 10:58 And yet, God, Jesus saw him and chose him. 11:02 And anyway, I just love that part 11:04 that somehow Jesus saw me 11:06 and started drawing my heart towards him. 11:08 He, what he used was, 11:11 there was a student week of prayer 11:13 where the students actually did the speaking for the, 11:16 you know, week of prayer. 11:18 And I was there as a freshman, and I didn't have a major, 11:21 and I wasn't... Into theology or anything. 11:24 Into theology or a super spiritual person 11:26 or anything like that. 11:28 And yet, one of my professors 11:32 wrote a letter of invitation to speak at this 11:35 student week of prayer. 11:37 Everyone else that they had asked was a theology major, 11:39 or a history major, and they were all seniors. 11:41 Wow. 11:42 Sounds like, somehow there was a mix up, 11:44 this was a huge mistake. 11:46 So... God doesn't make mistake. 11:48 No, He doesn't. 11:49 He was trying to get you to speak for Him. 11:51 Right. 11:53 So I went to the professor, 11:54 and I was like, there was a mistake. 11:56 He said, "No this wasn't a mistake. 11:57 I really would like for you to, you know, consider this." 12:00 And he gave me a day to think about it. 12:02 And I kept trying to think 12:03 how in the world am I gonna get out of this. 12:05 And anyway, in my mind, 12:08 what I thought was gonna be a viable 12:10 excuse to get out of it was to basically say, 12:15 I need time to study for a sermon like this. 12:17 I've never done anything like this in my life. 12:20 And I would have to drop one of my classes, 12:24 in order for me to not have a full load 12:26 so that I could dedicate time to the preparation 12:28 for this one sermon. 12:29 And anyway, the professor took the slip. 12:32 And it was past time to drop a class and everything. 12:34 So I thought for sure, it was gonna be my way out, 12:36 but he grabbed a slip signed it, 12:38 he dropped me from his class. 12:39 His class. 12:41 Yeah. 12:42 Wow. 12:43 And I left the office just kinda like, 12:45 ah, that didn't work, you know. 12:46 But I thankfully followed through with what I told him. 12:50 And that was they gave me a Bible verse. 12:52 So that was kinda like my lead, 12:54 and it was seek ye first the Kingdom of God, 12:56 and all these things shall be added unto you. 12:59 And I had never studied the Bible for myself, right? 13:04 And so, but the hour, I said, okay, 13:06 instead of this class period, 13:08 I'm gonna dedicate that time to preparing for this one talk. 13:12 And so day after day, you know, for that one hour, 13:16 everybody else was in class. 13:18 So I was, you know, alone in my dorm room. 13:20 And God starts teaching me through His Word 13:24 and yet the word was a challenge for me. 13:27 I fell in love with the Word. 13:28 I love to read. I love learning. 13:31 But my mind yet wasn't in tune with 13:35 how to totally grasp everything 13:36 that was in the Word. 13:38 Yeah. 13:39 So that became a journey for me and a quest. 13:41 But that's probably the most powerful thing 13:43 that has shaped my Christian experience 13:46 is the Word of God, 13:47 and then learning how to study the Word of God. 13:50 And... Absolutely. 13:51 Yeah. 13:53 And see that's huge, because he took that, 13:55 you were trying to make these excuses, 13:57 you were trying to get out of it, 13:59 and everything like that. 14:00 And I mean, it's kinda like how Moses was. 14:03 Moses was trying to make excuses. 14:05 He was trying to get out of it. 14:07 But that just wasn't happening. 14:09 And we see, you know, in the Bible, 14:11 the wonderful things that God did through Moses. 14:14 So that's huge. 14:16 I love the fact that they had the students speaking 14:18 and all of that as well. 14:21 How did you two meet because you complement each other 14:24 so well, even with, you know, your love for God 14:27 and your passion for the gospel? 14:30 How did you two meet? 14:31 Well, it's interesting because Rise was just sharing, 14:33 you know, Matthew 6:33, 14:35 "Seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteous." 14:37 And that was a key verse for me in those early moments, 14:40 those early times of experience. 14:42 But another key for me once I became an Adventist 14:45 was learning how to study the Bible. 14:48 I was doing Bible lessons with a Bible worker, 14:50 they were taking me through these lessons. 14:52 But once I learned how to study the Bible 14:55 that just knocked it out of the park for me. 14:57 How to use the Strong's Concordance. 14:59 I felt like I had to go through this, 15:01 this class twice to get it. 15:02 I felt like I could go anywhere in the Bible 15:05 and start to study it and really figure it out. 15:08 Yes. 15:09 So not only that impact my life in a powerful way, 15:12 but I was, you know, working with a ministry that was doing 15:16 a little two week school. 15:17 And in that school, I was teaching people 15:20 how to say the Bible. 15:22 Well guess who came to that school? 15:24 Rise? Soon to be right. 15:26 Yeah. Yes. 15:29 Yes. 15:30 So that was kinda interesting that, 15:31 that I learned about the school. 15:34 And I heard about Light Bearers, actually, 15:36 when I was in Europe. 15:38 And that was kinda an interesting thing, 15:39 how God introduced me to Light Bearers. 15:41 Then that next year, I would receive 15:43 some back then it was tapes, listen to some sermons, 15:47 you know, by tapes, but I heard that they had this school. 15:49 And as I mentioned, that was the one thing 15:51 I really wanted to learn. 15:52 I was hungry to learn how to study the Bible. 15:55 Yes. 15:56 And so, I told my mom, we lived in Loma Linda, 15:59 Southern California, he was in Northeast Washington. 16:01 I said, mom, I'm gonna go to this school this summer. 16:04 You wanna come with me? 16:06 So we drove up how many thousands... 16:09 One thousand four hundred. Fourteen hundred miles. 16:11 So we drove 1400 miles. And... 16:12 One way 16:14 And kept driving and driving and driving 16:15 and driving and driving and went to this, 16:19 found this little town called Milo. 16:21 And we're driving and it says, entering Milo, leaving Milo. 16:26 We were like, Where are we going? 16:29 You think this place is small. Yeah. 16:34 This is a metropolis compared to Milo. 16:35 Yes, yes. But we really enjoyed it. 16:37 It was in the middle of nowhere, 16:39 and we camped out had a tent. 16:41 My mom was a trooper, 16:43 so and we had classes every single day. 16:46 And James was one of our instructors. 16:48 Student teacher relationship. Wow. Okay. 16:51 Well, we actually didn't get to know 16:53 each other there like that at all. 16:54 That's true. Gotcha. 16:55 So it was a little bit later that you. 16:58 Okay, yeah, okay. 16:59 Yeah, I thought Rise had a boyfriend 17:00 when she was there. 17:02 She was hanging out with this guy 17:03 who happened to be there also that they had 17:04 gone to school together, to college 17:06 together for some time, 17:08 and they were so they were friends. 17:09 But I thought they were maybe boyfriend and girlfriend. 17:11 At that time, I was looking for a wife, 17:13 you know, I come into the church, 17:15 thinking to myself, you know, marrying and giving in marriage 17:17 is an end time sign in Matthew 24. 17:19 So I better not get married, I won't even go to a wedding. 17:22 I was really, you know, kind of hold off. 17:25 And as time went on, when I became an Adventist, 17:28 it was in 1984. 17:30 And when I... 17:32 When Rise came to the school was in 1988. 17:34 So about four years had gone by, 17:35 and I finally kind of mellowed out a little bit, 17:39 and started to see more of the balance. 17:40 You know, Genesis Chapter 2, 17:42 God looks at Adam and says, you know, 17:43 it's not good for man to be alone. 17:45 And some people shared with me, 17:46 you know, you're the marrying type. 17:48 You're the family type. 17:49 You're that, that's the kind of person you are, 17:51 and they were right. 17:52 So I was starting to be open to that and look, 17:53 and but Rise was taken in my book. 17:56 Got you. 17:57 So God had to perform a little miracle to actually 17:59 get us together. 18:00 But He did that, He got us connected. 18:01 Did you even ask her if she was taken though? 18:03 No, didn't talk to her at all. She's got a boyfriend. 18:05 He was in balance, you know, 18:06 came at a different time for marriage. 18:08 Look at her, you know? Oh, man. 18:11 So he ended up bringing you together later on. 18:14 And you got... 18:15 I was trying to get my sister out of the church 18:17 when I came in. 18:18 She was trying to get do everything 18:20 she could to get out of giving us 18:21 Bible study the week of prayer, 18:22 and God says I'm gonna use that. 18:24 So yeah, to God, it was amazing how He worked out. 18:26 Absolutely. 18:27 And so what would you say are some keys to a successful 18:31 marriage or keys to growth in your own marriage? 18:34 What's really interesting because Rise and I, 18:36 both came from, you know, single parent homes, 18:40 both raised by our moms basically. 18:41 So there's dysfunction there. 18:44 And you know, we become that, I mean, 18:46 I became an Adventist, she was a converted Adventist. 18:49 I mean, she was never raised an Adventist 18:50 but became converted, you know. 18:52 So both even ask the Lord seeking Him first. 18:55 And when we started dating, and having this relationship, 18:58 we knew that God was leading us, 18:59 but we didn't really have a clue. 19:02 You know, all we'd known is the way of the world. 19:04 And so, we started reading and studying 19:06 and we developed principles, 19:08 I shouldn't say, we develop principles, 19:09 we discovered principles that we were putting 19:11 together on how to have relationships, 19:13 how to date etcetera. 19:14 So we thought we've done this right. 19:15 We get into marriage, our first year of marriage, 19:19 we're in marriage counseling. 19:20 And it was really humbling for me because, 19:22 you know, I'm a preacher you know, 19:24 and I'm thinking not, what do you mean? 19:26 I did this right. You know, I know what's gonna here, 19:28 you know, and it was hard to just admit, 19:31 you know, we need help. 19:32 And what I wanna say at this point is all couples need help. 19:35 Marriage is not the end of relationship growth 19:39 and education, it's the beginning. 19:41 When you step into marriage, 19:42 you start to learn about marriage and what it's like 19:45 and how to keep it together. 19:46 So a lot of people think, oh, you get married, 19:48 there he is gonna be happy ever after. 19:49 No. 19:51 Marriage is the time 19:52 when you start learning things about the other person 19:54 that you never could have learned. 19:55 So that's one of the first things, 19:57 one of the first principles I think that we've learned 19:59 is that marrying is continuing education. 20:01 Marriage is continuing education. 20:03 Would you say that also in marriage you learn a lot 20:05 about yourself through your spouse? 20:09 Yeah, definitely like very self regulatory. 20:12 I was just gonna add something to what James said too 20:15 and that is I think it's important that you know 20:18 who you're married to, and not trying to make them 20:21 who you want to be married to. 20:23 Do you know what I'm saying? 20:24 Like you have this kind of idealistic 20:26 sometimes fantasy picture 20:27 of what we want in a spouse and you better be it, 20:31 you know? 20:33 And that I think can really destroy 20:37 a lot of intimacy and love in relationship. 20:41 So in other words too, don't marry potential, 20:45 you know? 20:46 And like, don't marry someone for who they could become, 20:50 you need to marry them for like 20:51 who they are at that moment and they never changed, 20:55 then you would be... 20:56 Yeah. Okay. 20:57 You know, having said that James 20:59 and I were two dysfunctional sinners 21:02 just like everyone else. 21:03 And like he said, we came from single parent homes 21:06 and definitely had a lot to learn. 21:09 But I think a key in a marriage situation 21:12 is that you just kinda acknowledge that. 21:14 I was thinking, you know, what brings, 21:17 what makes people happy in a marriage. 21:19 What's the key to having being having a happy marriage? 21:21 And like you said, you guys are well matched. 21:23 And I think we are. James and I are well matched. 21:26 But it's because we worked for it. 21:27 Yeah. Yes. Do you know what I mean? 21:29 Like we've worked hard. 21:30 And James and I aren't afraid of hard work. 21:32 We have attempted and accomplished a lot 21:35 of things in our lives. 21:36 We built our own first home. 21:38 We had no idea what we were doing. 21:39 You know what I'm saying? 21:40 But we just rolled up our sleeves and we're like okay, 21:42 let's just do this thing, 21:44 you know, with consistency and that's kind 21:45 of how we've approached our marriage to be honest 21:47 with you like we really don't know totally 21:49 what we're doing. 21:50 I love you, I'm committed to you. 21:53 But happy marriage day by day consistently it 21:57 takes a little bit more than that, 21:58 there's some skills that we needed to learn 22:00 and being willing to just acknowledge 22:03 that I don't come to the table knowing everything. 22:06 Being humble, you know, having that humility. 22:09 So I was thinking about the Beatitudes, you know, 22:11 blessed are the and that's kind of like happy are the, 22:15 you know, the people who are willing to be merciful 22:17 to each other and meek in own, our own... 22:21 Failures. Failures, mistakes, yeah. 22:24 And being willing to be called out 22:26 and not retaliate or throw another punch 22:30 back type of thing. 22:31 I think anyway, I think the Beatitudes 22:32 have a lot of ingredients to a successful happy marriage 22:37 That's very important. 22:38 You look like you want to say something. 22:40 Well, yeah, there was a lot of books that really 22:42 helped us too. 22:43 I remember the first book we read was 22:45 or it was actually a cassette, you know, we're going back 22:48 now because when we were dating we didn't have cell phones, 22:51 you know, these things weren't available. 22:53 It was just landline so a lot of our, 22:55 all of our communication basically most 22:57 of it was letters and we still got all our letters. 22:59 All those letters I wrote to Rise, 23:01 all those she wrote to me, we still got them all. 23:02 Wow. Yeah, they're in file. 23:04 I might take, you know, a handsome some form, 23:07 but I think we're gonna keep them other than that, right? 23:10 Nobody wants our letters. No one wants to let go. 23:13 Anyway, so we started 23:16 when we got into these difficulties, 23:17 we started people would say, hey, you should read this book. 23:19 Maybe this could help or the counselors 23:21 we are with and so the first one was, 23:23 Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus. 23:25 Okay. 23:26 And the basic premise that 23:28 I got from that there's a lot of stuff in there. 23:29 But the basic premise I got was that you know, 23:32 Rise is talking to you about her day or about her troubles 23:35 not because she wants advice or correction 23:37 or what you should do this or should do that, 23:38 she's talking to you about it because she wants to be heard. 23:41 And she wants empathy, understanding, just listen, 23:43 and empathize. 23:45 And I thought it can't be that simple. 23:46 It can't be that simple. 23:48 I remember, you know, I would have conversations 23:50 with my mom. 23:51 She lived in England and she would call me on the phone 23:53 and she would tell me about, you know, 23:55 things that were going on over there with family this 23:57 and the other and every time she would call me almost, 24:01 we would end up in this conflict 24:03 and she would be upset with me and we'd hang up 24:06 the phone and Rise would go, "How did it go on?" 24:07 I say, "It didn't end well again. 24:09 It didn't end well again." 24:11 And I thought I wonder if this principle will work 24:13 with my mom. 24:14 So the next time she called me, I... 24:16 She was telling me this and telling me that and I said, 24:17 wow, really? Wow. 24:19 That's really something I didn't give her any advice 24:20 and try to show her what she needs to do or this and that. 24:23 I just listened and empathized. 24:25 And when we got done with the conversation she said, 24:26 I feel so much better. Thank you. 24:29 I thought it works. 24:30 Whereas men, they want answers. 24:34 If I'm talking to another man about a situation or problem, 24:37 I want you to give me some counsel or some advice. 24:38 I don't want you just go, oh, poor, 24:40 God feel sorry for you hope everything works out. 24:42 See you later, you know, I'm thinking, 24:44 can you help me, you know? 24:46 Tell me what I need to do. 24:47 So there's a lot of other books, 24:48 there was the love languages. 24:50 That one was huge. 24:51 I'm changing our marriage because we realized we weren't, 24:53 we didn't know each other's love language. 24:56 And a lot of people I come to learn that's common. 25:00 You know, where we really don't speak 25:01 each other's love language. 25:03 So we end up feeling unloved within our own marriage. 25:06 And that can breed insecurity and poor relationships. 25:11 So, yeah, willing to learn 25:13 what the other person's love language was, but then learning 25:16 how to do that consistently on a daily basis. 25:19 And then understanding the mind of a woman, 25:21 that was a big one for Rise. 25:22 That was a book about, you know, 25:24 we should live with our wives in an understanding way. 25:27 That's what the Bible says. 25:28 And I remember was in Sabbath School class that was such 25:31 a blessing to me. 25:32 And in church, I said, you know, 25:34 pastors give me permission to do Sabbath School 25:36 class for men, married men 25:38 and understand the mind of woman. 25:39 And guy in the back waving his hand, he said, 25:41 how many years that Sabbath School class gonna be? 25:44 And I said, that's exactly the problem. 25:46 Because we think it's impossible to understand 25:48 the mind of a woman. 25:50 And yet the Bible says we should live with 25:51 our wives in an understanding way. 25:53 And a big one for me. 25:55 The one that made a huge impact on what Rise, 25:59 a book that Rise read that made a huge impact on me. 26:01 Yeah, The Proper Care and Feeding of Your Husband. 26:03 That was another one that... Really? 26:05 That was a good one. Yeah. 26:06 Praise the Lord. That was great. 26:08 Yeah. And you make healthy food, too. 26:11 Yeah. But you know, to feed the husband, 26:13 it's like food. 26:15 But then there's more that really feeds 26:16 the heart of our husband. 26:17 So it just kind of, yeah, embellished on that. 26:19 And then the more recent one we read was dealing 26:23 with how to communicate better and difficult relationships. 26:27 Feel like conflict resolution, how to manage those situations. 26:30 How to truly even prevent them. 26:31 How to truly listen to each other, 26:33 how to interact with communication. 26:36 So what I'm gathering from you is it's an ongoing, 26:39 ongoing learning process. 26:42 Yes. But we keep it fun. 26:43 Yeah. Yes. 26:45 We watch seminars, you know, 26:46 and sharing with others. 26:48 So we've been, we've done, we've been counseled, 26:50 and we've counseled others. 26:51 And you learn a lot as you interact with different people. 26:54 You learn a lot about, 26:55 you know, the different personalities that we have. 26:57 We've taken personality test that helps also. 27:00 So everything has its place. 27:01 The Word of God is the foundation across 27:03 the basis. One of the things that that really helped me 27:06 and understand that my woman was to love my wife, 27:09 as Christ loved the church. 27:11 Christ took responsibility for our sin. 27:13 He didn't sin, He didn't do anything wrong, 27:14 but He took responsibility. 27:16 So I wanna blame 27:17 my wife for what she's responsible for but the husband 27:20 is to take full responsibility for the whole thing. 27:23 And that was huge. 27:24 That's deep, and that's a lot of people don't, 27:26 they don't grasp that concept. 27:28 They don't grab that. 27:29 Look, I should have had a pen and a piece of paper. 27:32 So I could take some notes with all these keys. 27:35 I'll catch it on YouTube, 27:36 I have to write it down on Dare to Dream YouTube channel. 27:40 But thank you so much for coming on 27:41 and being transparent. 27:43 We'll have to talk about health in the future. 27:45 And I wanna thank you for taking the time to join us 27:49 as you always do. 27:50 And until next time, 27:52 I hope God richly blesses you beyond 27:55 what you could ask or think. |
Revised 2021-10-14