Wonderfully Made

Natural Remedies Research

Three Angels Broadcasting Network

Program transcript

Participants: David DeRose and John Clark

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Series Code: WM

Program Code: WM000403


00:01 The following program presents principles
00:03 designed to promote good health and is not
00:04 intended to take the place of personalized
00:06 professional care. The opinions and ideas
00:09 expressed are those of the speaker.
00:11 Viewers are encouraged to draw their own conclusions
00:14 about the information presented.
00:35 Welcome to Wonderfully Made. I am Dr. David DeRose,
00:37 president of Compass Health Incorporated.
00:40 Today, we are going to be looking at a subject that is
00:42 really grabbing lots of headlines, but perhaps
00:45 not in the way that you think they are.
00:47 We are gonna be speaking about a subject, looking at
00:50 natural remedies and the challenges in
00:53 natural remedies research to aid me in this very
00:56 important topic as well as giving you some practical
00:58 insights that will help you at home is Dr. John Clark.
01:02 Dr. Clark, it's wonderful to have you with us
01:04 on today's edition of Wonderfully Made.
01:06 Thanks for having me. You know John, we in the
01:10 medical profession are always hearing about the
01:13 latest studies, there are all kinds of continuing medical
01:16 education classes that are trying to make sure,
01:19 patients have cutting edge information and that
01:21 they are applying it in their practice.
01:23 The Montra if you will will in medical circles
01:26 today is evidence based. Yes.
01:30 What does that conjure up in your mind as a physician?
01:33 Well, when you're talking about evidence, it sounds
01:35 like a court case. You know, in fact that's
01:38 where it ends up a lot of times,
01:40 so are you following exactly what the letter of
01:43 the medical literature says? Now, this is a fascinating
01:46 topic and for those of you tuning in today,
01:49 there are study after study coming out, putting out
01:52 conclusions that really raise concerns about the way
01:55 doctors are practicing. I've got some of them
01:58 with me today, sitting on my desk,
02:00 talking about whether physicians are complying with
02:04 current guidelines. Here is one from the
02:06 mayo clinic proceedings, patients understanding and
02:10 compliance with medications. Medical professionals as
02:14 they look at the landscape of American medicine are very
02:17 concerned. That doctors and patients are not complying,
02:21 they are not following the best evidence and what
02:22 they are doing. Dr. Clark, you have been treating
02:25 patients over the years, you are doing a lot
02:26 with patient education, are you worried that patients
02:29 are not complying with evidence based medicine.
02:32 Well, I certainly worry when they don't comply
02:34 with what I tell them. Well, hopefully your giving
02:37 them what you think is the best information, right.
02:40 That's right. And, you're really
02:41 worry about that. Oh! Yeah, you know,
02:43 you tell him what to do, and they do half of it,
02:45 and they get half a results or they're half sicker.
02:49 So, when these expert bodies come out with a
02:52 proclamation, let say, let's take an example of
02:54 some new medication that's out there.
02:56 Yes. The word comes out that
02:58 they have done these randomized controlled,
03:01 the double blinded studies, you know the highest
03:03 standard of medical research has been brought to bear
03:07 and this new drug is going to help with the certain
03:10 problem and so the experts say every patient with this
03:13 condition should be on this medication,
03:16 you see things like that come across your desk.
03:18 Oh! Yeah. So, does that mean that
03:20 you as a physician then really are not doing your job
03:24 unless you prescribe that medication for every patient
03:26 with that condition. Possibly and then of course
03:29 you have the advertisements to tell the patients about
03:31 this information on their TV screens, and they come in
03:34 already having filled out their shopping lists
03:37 and they know what they want.
03:38 Now, you exactly right, there is a lot of demand for
03:40 medication and part of that demand is being fueled by
03:43 advertising practices. Yes.
03:46 So, what the challenges is for us today?
03:48 They were talking about natural remedies and
03:51 you and I both over the years have worked with some
03:53 simple approaches to dealing with disease, we've seen
03:57 God bless those simple treatments and yet many times
04:00 we don't have a huge double blinded Placebo
04:04 control trials, after all how can you do a
04:06 Placebo control trial with hydrotherapy.
04:09 What kind of Placebo is going to be the substitute
04:11 for putting a hot pack on someone's chest,
04:13 they're not going to know about it, have
04:15 you figured that one out. Well, it's kind of difficult,
04:17 I have seen some studies where they came up
04:19 with some interesting Placebo's, but even the
04:23 Placebo could have some interesting affects.
04:25 What, well the bottom-line in a real
04:28 Placebo control trial is that someone is going to
04:32 think that the treatment and the Placebo are identical
04:35 and if I'm sticking a hot pack on your chest,
04:38 you are not gonna walk out of the study and say,
04:39 well I'm not really sure, whether I got the hot pack
04:41 or whether I got something that had no heat in it.
04:44 That's right. So, at a certain respect
04:46 the playing field is not completely level.
04:49 Right. Because with many of these
04:51 natural remedies, especially the physical modalities,
04:54 the hydrotherapy, you can't really do a
04:58 true double blinded study. True, yes.
05:01 Tell me as an orthopedic surgeon,
05:02 I know that's what your primary specialty is,
05:05 whether you've seen hydrotherapy provide
05:08 benefits to your patients. Oh! Definitely, you bet and
05:11 I've often instructed patients to do
05:13 hydrotherapy at home. Give us a practical example,
05:16 so someone listening to, we don't want to just to
05:18 hear philosophy, we want them to say, well you know,
05:21 these guys talked about some philosophy,
05:23 but they gave me some practical pointers, what can
05:26 you do with hydrotherapy in the orthopedic room.
05:28 Oh! Well, for example, I sprained my ankle,
05:32 I use myself as an example. And, what happened is I was
05:36 moving some furniture, I twisted my ankle,
05:38 I thought a had broken it. Umm!
05:41 I was sure that I was gonna be in a cast.
05:42 So, an orthopedic surgeon misdiagnosed himself.
05:46 Yes, I was thinking, okay, it's gonna be funny
05:49 maybe I ought to put on my own cast and what am
05:51 I gonna do. I was crawling around the house.
05:53 I couldn't put weight on it. And so I started in on
05:56 some hydrotherapy. My hydrotherapy,
05:59 well I put my foot in a bucket of hot water
06:03 for three minutes. Okay.
06:05 Hot as I could stand and then I put it in a bucket of
06:09 ice cold water and it was winter, so there was
06:12 ice cold water coming out of my faucet practically
06:16 and that was one minute, I went back to hot for three,
06:18 back to cold for one, the alternating
06:21 hot and cold three times. Okay, so three cycles,
06:24 three applications of hot, three applications of cold.
06:26 That's right. And, then I ended with cold,
06:29 put on a stocking and let it rest for about a half hour.
06:34 A day or two of doing that, three times a day and it was
06:37 doing so well, I was walking around the house, so I'd
06:39 forgotten about it and I twisted it again,
06:42 sad to say, but I want to back to my hydrotherapy again
06:44 and within a couple of days, I was fine. So, I didn't
06:47 have any embarrassment of walking around in my office
06:50 or crutch walking around my office
06:52 explaining to patients that I was one of them.
06:55 Now, let me ask you this, the conventional wisdom
06:57 though John, with acute injury is just use ice,
07:00 just use cold, isn't that what we've been told.
07:02 Yes. Why were you using this
07:03 alternating hot and cold. Yeah, I am glad you bring
07:06 that up and if my ankle had been purple and
07:09 three times it's normal size, I would have used just ice.
07:13 Okay. But it was sore, it was hurt,
07:15 but it wasn't swollen badly and it certainly wasn't
07:18 bruised or purple. And, so just using the cold,
07:23 that would have worked too, but the hot and cold
07:25 stimulates faster healing, it tends to when you
07:28 put on a hot, it brings more blood into area.
07:31 Umm! Umm! When you put on the cold
07:32 on the surface, it tends to dry the blood deep,
07:35 when you go back and fourth those vessels opening and
07:38 closing tend to pump the tissues, so that it gets
07:40 edema or swelling out of the ankle. And,
07:43 it also increases the white count in the system
07:46 and white cells are involved in healing as well.
07:49 So, it works very well. So, there is no question
07:53 in your mind that that treatment was efficacious
07:56 in dealing with your sprained ankle.
07:58 Correct, yes. And, you've applied
08:00 that counsel, you have given that prescription
08:03 to many of your patients with similar injuries.
08:05 Always. Yes, I have. And they've had
08:06 good results as well. Oh! Yeah, yeah very good
08:08 results and often time we are able to avoid using
08:12 poisonous drugs or having to go on four more
08:16 surgery or physical therapy. Now, I am gonna ask you
08:19 this question John, because I haven't seen it, I haven't
08:22 seen out there in the literature where there is a
08:24 study of alternating hot and cold therapy,
08:26 at least done recently. Is there data out there
08:29 like this or it just something that we have
08:31 experienced, make sense as far the mechanisms
08:35 and we used it with, with efficacy.
08:38 No, I haven't seen a lot of studies on it. I do know
08:41 there was a physical therapy unit that did a little bit of
08:44 research into it and they claimed they couldn't find
08:47 anything in the current literature.
08:49 Although we're a bit limited in that our current
08:52 literature that will shop on a computer, it's just
08:54 in the last forty years, we've basically lost
08:56 everything prior to that and that's when they would
08:58 have been doing more research on hydrotherapy.
09:01 Now, this is a fascinating topic because as we speak
09:04 about natural remedies. The culture of America
09:09 at least for many years was really set against
09:12 natural remedies, all of the funding for research was
09:16 largely coming from powerful commercial interest and
09:21 you know, need we say, we could identify certain
09:26 sectors of the commercial landscape in America or
09:30 the world, but it's not just the drug companies.
09:34 Right, you know, we could write a grant for the water
09:38 company to fund us for a hydrotherapy, but I've a
09:41 feeling they don't have quite the financial backing
09:44 of the drug companies. Yeah, but when you talk about
09:47 diet things, okay they are vested interest in certain
09:49 segments of the dietary remedies, it's usually the
09:53 people with the most money, not the fruit
09:54 and vegetable growers. Right.
09:56 So, there are these powerful commercial interests
09:59 that are influencing which research is done.
10:02 Yes. What research is funded.
10:04 Right. And, so as a result to
10:05 landscape when we look at evidence based medicine is
10:09 largely shaped by these interests or it's the
10:12 medical device manufacturers. Yes, exactly.
10:16 Now you told me an interesting story once about
10:19 this whole subject of evidence based medicine
10:21 and how, even back in medical school, you were
10:23 given an assignment where you had to look into this.
10:26 Yeah. Tell us what you've learned.
10:27 Yeah, one of my assignments was to do a little talk
10:30 on evidence based medicine and the idea being that
10:34 I would come out with this discussion of how
10:37 everybody needed to follow the literature perfectly
10:39 or be a bad doctor. So, I went and looked into
10:42 the biostatistics behind evidence based medicine
10:45 and there was a group who had gone through the
10:47 literature, looked at something like 14000 articles
10:51 and discovered that 40% of them didn't know
10:53 what they were doing on biostatistics.
10:55 So, these were statisticians that were looking over the
10:57 shoulders of the medical researchers.
10:58 That's right, yes, statisticians out of Boston,
11:02 and so the evidence was against the evidence
11:05 based medicine, what's more, they discovered that if a
11:08 research group had negative results.
11:11 The results didn't necessary support their hypothesis,
11:13 even though those results if published would help
11:16 guide medicine, they never published it.
11:18 Umm! Umm! And, so that's a large
11:20 majority of literature that never makes it
11:22 to the printed page. Yeah, so we talk
11:25 about this so called publication bias.
11:27 Yes. And, so if someone is
11:28 studying a drug, if the drug shows no benefit, they are
11:31 not likely to actually publish that data.
11:33 Right. But, if the drug shows
11:35 benefit in a particular study that'll hit the press.
11:38 Yes. What a lot of lay people
11:41 don't realize is that statistics is not in all or
11:46 known phenomenon, in medical circles we say,
11:50 if there is a one in twenty chance or less of something
11:54 just occurring by the flip of a coin then this is
11:58 statistically significant, that's usually the criteria
12:02 that we use in medical research studies. So, John
12:05 let's paint a scenario here now, we're being a bit
12:08 cynical here just to make our point.
12:09 Yeah. But let's say I come out
12:11 with a new drug. Umm! Umm!
12:12 And, I can say, it's a drug to treat heart disease
12:16 patients after having a heart attack.
12:18 Yes. And, I say this is the
12:19 you know, million dollar market, billion dollar market
12:22 whatever and so I do 50 studies.
12:25 Umm! Umm! 47 of them show absolutely no
12:29 benefit, some show people get worse in those 47 studies.
12:33 Umm! Umm! But out of those 50 studies
12:34 three show they get better. Now, if you use this, the
12:38 standard rules of statistics you would say, well this
12:42 it doesn't look like anything, it's just by luck
12:44 of the draw, but if I just publish those three studies.
12:47 Yeah. It looks like,
12:49 there was an impressive finding.
12:50 Yeah. Now, does that, I mean
12:53 again, this is a really extra making something
12:56 ridiculously extreme, but does things like this
12:58 happen in the drug research literature.
13:00 Oh! Yeah, you bet. Or worst yet though, hire a university
13:06 to produce a good research or research and they will
13:12 set the parameters they are looking for as being specific
13:17 to their drug, but they aren't parameters
13:19 anybody else would really be interested in.
13:21 And, then they'll find statistical significance on
13:24 those parameters which really don't tell you that the drug
13:27 is gonna help people. Now, we don't want anyone
13:30 tuning in today to think that we're, we're saying
13:33 there is never a place for medication, we would
13:35 never recommend surgery, that's not the message that
13:38 we are trying to give today. But the point that were
13:40 trying to communicate is many doctors today are
13:45 being educated that there has to be solid evidence,
13:47 huge studies before we should used any approach
13:51 as far as treatment. What we are saying is,
13:53 once you take the step, you start excluding many
13:57 of the most promising strategies, strategies that
13:59 haven't under gone this "vigorous approach,
14:03 because it often takes millions or billions of
14:05 dollars to research some of these things.
14:08 So, Dr. Clark how can we intelligently then, in this
14:12 frame work use natural therapies, I mean people
14:16 aren't out there necessarily studying these things in the
14:19 detail that they are the latest drug or surgery.
14:23 Yeah. You know, that's a challenge for somebody and
14:27 one other things about natural remedies is that it's
14:30 gotten bog down in a lot of commercialism also.
14:33 Umm! And, somebody was asking me
14:35 the other day about this author and that author,
14:38 and that book, and that television show
14:39 and how would they know, and one other things I told
14:42 them was, well if their research is trying to
14:45 support the product they have for sale.
14:49 You might want to look for somebody that
14:50 researched it and had no buyers or interest.
14:53 Now, this is a very, very important concept,
14:56 much of what's being purported as far as good
15:00 natural remedies research is just as blatantly
15:04 commercial or even more so than what we're seeing
15:06 coming out in the medical literature.
15:08 Yes. And we don't want to give
15:10 impression that anything out in the medical literature
15:13 skew you can't depend on any of the studies, but
15:15 what we're saying is it's not as cut and dried as
15:18 sometimes doctors want it make out to be, even when
15:21 a study, a good study is done. You always have to ask
15:25 who was the group that was being studied. You know
15:28 Dr. Clark, let's say a study comes out saying that
15:32 physicians who take Acetaminophen, you know
15:36 Tylenol or some other Anti-Inflammatory drug.
15:40 They take it every day they live 10 years longer.
15:43 Lets say it's a good study in this population of
15:45 physicians that we study. You're a physician right.
15:46 Yes. So you being a physician,
15:49 you see this data come out, you're gonna immediately
15:51 start taking Tylenol every day right?
15:55 Well, actually I would not. Now why is that? I mean if
15:58 the data is good, if it's good, clean science,
16:00 why would you not do that. I would question the data,
16:03 recently there's been a number of articles
16:05 coming out to show that drinking helps heart disease.
16:08 Well actually, you know the the bombs that hit
16:10 Hiroshima helped heart disease.
16:12 People died of something else and sometimes you have
16:15 to look and see if there is research you know showing
16:17 that people live longer, they probably feed
16:20 Acetaminophen or Tylenol to people they already
16:23 suspected would live longer. You know there always a
16:25 bias there to how they set up the study.
16:27 Okay, well you know you've touched on a number of things
16:30 I think we got to be very careful with some of our
16:32 analogies and I'm glad you're holding me to task
16:35 on this show as well as I'm in your case,
16:38 but you made this association with moderate drinking
16:41 and I'll tell you my understanding of the
16:43 literature and you tell me if I am saying it
16:45 the same way, I probably would not use the illustration
16:48 with people dying from other causes, because
16:51 I haven't seen that data in the moderate drinking
16:53 literature. But what I have seen is this, given an
16:56 excellent case, you may be aware of this and that is the
16:59 Oxford vegetarian study. When they looked at
17:02 people on a healthy lifestyle, healthy diet,
17:05 they looked at their moderate alcohol consumption.
17:07 They find it did not do them a wit of good, as far as
17:10 decreasing their risk of heart disease. So I believe
17:14 there are healthy compounds in alcoholic beverages,
17:16 they were in the plants to begin with.
17:18 So someone who is deficient on Fido chemicals,
17:22 you know drinking some wine may give them some benefit
17:25 as far as their heart. I don't have a problem
17:26 saying that, but I would also say that there are lots
17:31 of problems we know connected with alcohol use.
17:33 And I would say you're much better off eating the
17:35 whole fruits and vegetables that the Lord provide.
17:37 I mean that's my take on that subject and since
17:39 you've mentioned it. I'm kind of curious,
17:41 I mean how do you stand when it comes to
17:43 moderate drinking. You know the moderate drinker
17:46 is fairly a rare person actually. They're different,
17:51 the moderate drinker who has the self control
17:54 perhaps to stop at one or two drinks.
17:57 Is often, often more highly educated, they have other
18:01 health benefits from exercise and other lifestyle issues
18:05 that help them and so there is actually sort of a
18:07 J-curve, you know low income people who drink
18:10 a little bit or none. Also have poor lifestyle
18:13 problems and so they start as almost the Placebo group
18:17 that are not that healthy and then you have the
18:19 moderate drinkers who are a little bit or more healthy
18:22 just because of their lifestyles.
18:24 And then you have the drunks that get sick from everything
18:27 are at the other end of the curve.
18:28 And so they pick on this middle group of people
18:31 who are moderate drinkers, whose lifestyle would
18:34 predict that they would be healthier anyway.
18:36 And so it's often not a good group to compare to,
18:39 so I don't believe the studies that you know and
18:43 if you took the alcohol away from the Bioflavonoids
18:46 and the, you know things that are great to begin
18:48 with. You wouldn't find a benefit.
18:50 You know it's interesting, you're really speaking about
18:53 a subject that in statistics we called confounding and
18:56 that means there is often factors that the researchers
18:59 could not take into account or did not take into account
19:01 that actually explain the results. And you're
19:03 exactly right Dr. Clark, I know in some of the alcohol
19:06 literature this is actually what's found, that they
19:08 actually look back at some of these studies and
19:11 they say no, it wasn't the moderate drinking.
19:13 It was being more educated, it was other things that
19:16 likely were not measured that we know that
19:19 co-relate with better health. Yeah.
19:21 So, I mean this is a fascinating issue and
19:24 you know, maybe, maybe some of the folks tuning
19:27 in today are not catching the significance of this.
19:29 But, whenever there is something out there in
19:31 the media, if you're hearing things coming across the
19:34 television waves, you're reading about them,
19:36 you're listing to them on the radio. Who are more
19:39 likely to follow those things, it's the
19:40 educated people. And so if there is this perception,
19:43 right Dr. Clark, in society that milk is good for you.
19:46 Who do you think is drinking more milk.
19:48 Yeah the educated readers. That's right.
19:50 Yeah. How was it, before we had
19:53 all the data about hormone replacement therapy
19:57 and being harmful in many ways, which women were
20:00 more likely to take Estrogen and Progesterone
20:02 after menopause. Oh! Doctor's wives.
20:05 That's right, doctor's wives, educated women,
20:07 women who were living healthy in many
20:11 other respects. So what happens in that scenario.
20:14 When they study these women, they have much better health.
20:17 They look, those taking Estrogen and Progesterone,
20:19 they're getting all of these benefits. Let's say
20:21 Alzheimer's, less heart disease,
20:23 less cancer. Less cancer, I know I wouldn't
20:26 go that far, but the point was there was always
20:29 exciting data coming out and then when they did the
20:32 definitive research, what did they find?
20:34 They found out that they had to stop the studies.
20:37 The people in the treatment group getting the hormone
20:39 replacement were having some much cancer they felt
20:41 it was unethical to continue the studies.
20:44 You know it's amazing what happens when we just
20:47 look at data without having any other filter beside the
20:51 medical community. I was fascinated Dr. Clark but
20:54 something you shared with me once and I know you're
20:57 prepared to share it here. You told me there was a
21:00 guiding statement that you've read once and you have
21:02 read many times since no doubt, that really
21:05 focused your mind on leveling the playing field.
21:09 Not being just dependent on the secular researchers
21:12 and commercial interest, but share with our viewers
21:16 today this statement that is so significant for you.
21:19 Thank you, I sure will and I'll just read here the
21:23 only hope of better things is in the education of the
21:27 people in right principles. Let physicians teach the
21:32 people that restorative power is not in drugs,
21:35 but in nature. Disease is an effort of nature to free the
21:40 system from conditions that result from a violation
21:43 of the laws of health. In the case of sickness,
21:46 the cause should be ascertained, unhealthful
21:49 conditions should be changed, wrong habits corrected.
21:52 Then nature is to be assisted in her effort to
21:56 expel impurities and to establish right conditions
22:00 in the system. Now, I mean if someone
22:02 had never heard that before, it may sound, I don't know
22:07 even kind of antiquated, the languages used,
22:10 is this something that just came out in a
22:11 medical journal, I mean obviously if it's impacted
22:13 your practice it must be something that's been out
22:15 there for a while. It's been there for a while,
22:17 I think it was written before I was born,
22:19 perhaps a 100 years. And of course we
22:21 both know the source. Yes.
22:23 It's a little book called ministry of healing and
22:26 really though the statements there, although some of us
22:28 would say as we looked through not just that
22:30 statement but this whole book, Ministry of Healing,
22:33 if you're not familiar with it. It's a book that
22:35 was published many years ago as Dr. Clark mentioned.
22:38 That I have found as a physician compellingly
22:41 accurate when it comes to medical conspectus and I'm
22:44 assuming if you're using this as a guiding light,
22:46 it's been true for you Dr. Clark
22:48 Definitely true. It was this book that many
22:51 of our viewers may realize labeled tobacco as a
22:57 insidious and most malignant poison, long before the
23:02 connection between smoking and cancer was ever
23:05 nailed down. Yeah, back when physicians
23:07 were prescribing tobacco for asthma.
23:11 So this statement here is saying that restorative
23:14 power is not in drugs. Now, are we saying that
23:18 there is never a case where medication could
23:20 give a person benefit? No, we're not saying that.
23:24 But we are saying that it's not the vital power that you
23:27 are gonna get from the drugs.
23:29 You need to look to another source.
23:31 Okay so basically a drug could be used in a context
23:35 where that drug has physiologic effects that
23:38 actually help a person, we're in agreement in that.
23:40 And often times we find herbs are the source of drugs.
23:44 Okay. We all tend to think of
23:46 herbs as being very helpful. Although there are some
23:48 poisonous herbs. Okay. So there are drugs
23:51 out there that can give benefit and yet you're
23:52 saying that you believe this concept that restorative
23:56 power is not in drugs. I mean, how do you
24:00 explain that. If a drug, if I take an antibiotic
24:04 and I have got a strep throat.
24:06 And the strep throat goes away. I mean most
24:08 people would say, well that drug has restorative power,
24:11 it restored me from a condition of strep throat
24:15 to a condition of no strep throat.
24:17 That's right and then often times people go
24:19 around singing the praises of the antibiotic.
24:22 When in reality if you had no immune system,
24:26 as we've had a few people in history this way.
24:29 If you had no immune system, taking an antibiotic would
24:31 do nothing for you. Okay.
24:33 The antibiotic merely weaken cells, hopefully
24:36 mostly the bacterial cells, but it weakens the cells
24:40 so your body can attack that cell and kill it.
24:43 But often times it leaves you with some weakness as well.
24:47 Especially in your own good bacteria, such as
24:51 need to be in your gut. Yes, I mean this is an
24:53 important concept. So basically what we're
24:56 saying is, we're not saying that there is never a place
24:58 for medication, that you can't use drug therapy.
25:02 But what we're saying is when I look at natural therapies,
25:06 many of them have less side effects, less toxicities
25:10 then the pharmacological agents, most people would
25:13 readily probably ascend to the idea that it would be
25:17 nice to avoid surgery if you didn't need it. Right.
25:19 Right. I mean as an orthopedic
25:20 surgeon did most patients come to you hoping that
25:23 they would need surgery or trying to avoid it,
25:26 or is it kind of a mix. Well, we worry about the
25:28 ones that think they need it all the time.
25:31 No, most of them want to avoid it.
25:33 Okay so, so basically I think most people resonate
25:36 with this concept. And so when the studies
25:39 come out, do we look at it at the beginning.
25:40 Problems with patient compliance, problems with
25:43 doctor's compliance. What the issue is doctors,
25:46 I think. Many of us are saying,
25:48 well! I am not sure that I want to give every single
25:51 patient this drug even though it helps certain
25:54 people with this condition. Did you think that's part
25:55 of the dynamic that's going on, or you think us as
25:57 physicians we just don't know the literature out there.
26:00 No, I think you're right and I think that's part
26:02 of the dynamic. One other thing I was just thinking
26:05 about your strep throat there. The patient
26:07 that always takes the antibiotic to cure the
26:09 strep throat will eventually have to have the antibiotic
26:13 to cure the strep throat. Where as initially they
26:16 might have been able to treat it without the antibiotic.
26:18 Because you're saying their flora, their natural
26:20 good germs are so disrupted, is that the implication.
26:23 Yes and because their immune system is
26:25 weakened by the antibiotic.
26:27 So, they are not making antibodies against invaders
26:30 because they're letting the antibodies do the dirty work,
26:32 is that what you're saying is going on.
26:34 Yes. Okay, so it's not always bad
26:37 to fight off an infection. Right, if your body can
26:40 fight off the infection itself with hydrotherapy
26:43 with nature remedies with charcoal and so forth,
26:46 then the next time the bug comes around it has a memory.
26:49 It has learned how to fight that antibiotic
26:51 and it will be. Fight the germ.
26:53 Fight the germ. Sorry, yes, fight the germ.
26:55 And it will be more prepared to do the next time.
26:59 So basic what we're saying is one way to
27:01 kind of level the field when it comes to research.
27:04 Is actually recognizing that we may need to take a
27:07 a different approach, a different look
27:09 at scientific research. We do want a keep close
27:13 to what is sound science. We do want to be aware
27:16 of what's being published in the medical literature,
27:18 but we want to recognize that many physicians as was
27:21 many patients are having second thoughts about just
27:25 really newly applying the "latest research when it
27:28 points us to more surgery or more drug medications.
27:32 I think it's well to remember that God gave us
27:36 a program of lifestyles, we study the scriptures,
27:39 he does not just tell that he loves us.
27:41 He does not just tell us that we have a savior in Jesus,
27:44 but many times we read there that God gives us
27:47 moral imperatives. He calls us to live in a certain way,
27:50 read Paul's letters, after assuring his listeners,
27:54 his audience if you will. That what he is talking
27:57 about is the wonderful grace of God, free salvation
28:00 of Christ. He says then, go do this. As you learned
28:04 simple natural things, put them
28:06 into practice and God will bless.


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Revised 2014-12-17