Participants:
Series Code: WWT
Program Code: WWT220001S
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00:01 Wow, man, this is really really nice, thanks for inviting me.
00:03 Well I'm glad that you accepted the invitation and you came 00:07 down with my mom and you know I prepared all of this and 00:11 you are probably all wondering why but...Really, wow! 00:15 I had something special in mind. Okay. Are you okay? 00:21 Oh my goodness, listen you 'all, mamma raised me right 00:26 and he better not try anything cause I'm prepared. 00:29 I got my mace. Ha ha ha. Okay, so um, are you okay? 00:36 Are you sick? Yes, I'm actually fine, I'm trying to figure out 00:41 the best to ask you how to marry me. 00:44 To marry you? [Shaking his head yes.] 00:46 You'll, this man hasn't even told me that he loves me 00:51 and he's asking me to marry him. 00:53 This is strange. So you want me to marry you? 00:58 Yes! Okay...Ah...Wow... Um... Well...Yeah, you know... 01:07 Huh, excuse me, I got to use the bathroom okay? 01:10 I'll be right back, I'm sorry, be right back. But... 01:40 Hello friends, I'm Steven Conway and this is my lovely wife 01:44 Tamara. Hey guys. And welcome to When We Talk. 01:49 After 22 years of marriage we have discovered that 01:54 when we talk we are in process. Oh yes. When we talk we laugh. 02:02 [Laughing.] When we talk we heal. Yes, yes. 02:06 And when we talk we grow. Absolutely. Yeah. 02:09 And so, we are excited that you could join us...Yeah. 02:14 On this journey, it's almost as we are bringing you into 02:19 into the experiences that we have when we talk and we hope 02:22 by the grace of God that you will continue talking 02:26 after we have. Yeah. Now Tamara, what did they just see? 02:32 [laughing]. So listen guys, that was a real-life enactment 02:38 or proposal and I must say if you felt like it was a little 02:43 strange it's cause it was. [laughing] November 11th, 2000, 02:50 Two thousand, can you believe it? Down in the hills of east 02:53 Tennessee...Yes...It was a beautiful evening...It was... 02:58 You were quite afraid as we were driving through the dark 03:01 like where's he taking me? Yes, because listen... 03:03 I'm from a big city, right? Ohio and Cleveland, 03:06 and there are streetlights in the hills of Tennessee 03:09 there was no street lights, people don't lock their doors, 03:11 and I'm like, Oh my goodness, this is going to be interesting 03:13 okay? So I didn't know what was going on when you were 03:16 driving me through the mountains and taking me to that 03:18 beautiful cabin...was gorgeous. But this was a unique proposal. 03:22 Yeah. What was...what was so unique about it? 03:25 Well, first of all, I had no idea which...You know, maybe most 03:30 women don't know that they are going to be proposed to. 03:33 Maybe you may have a little hint, but I'm going to tell you 03:36 I no clue at all whatsoever this man was going to ask me 03:39 to marry him. Um hum. Because you didn't even display any 03:41 type of...I don't know. Like we never dated. 03:45 That's just the truth guys. We didn't date. 03:48 Yeah, and that's not prescriptive, we're not saying 03:50 that this is what you need to do. Yeah. This is just 03:53 us sharing what our experience has been with you 03:57 and because we didn't do things in a traditional way 04:00 leading up to that marriage proposal... 04:03 That night you mentioned it in the skit...There was something 04:07 that was missing something else that was missing. 04:09 Yes. There was this looming thing. We're talking about words 04:13 right? This episode is about how words matter 04:17 but there was one word that was never used between us 04:20 in any of our conversations and that word was LOVE 04:23 LOVE! Um! Never said it. Never said it. Not one time. 04:28 Not even once. And then he asked me to marry him. 04:30 And I asked you to marry. Okay. Yeah, but, you know 04:33 for me and my perspective I had come from quite frankly 04:40 using the word in the wrong ways, in manipulative ways 04:46 I had told other young ladies I loved them only because 04:50 I wanted something from them. Um. And I think maybe there's 04:55 a lot of men who can resonate with saying that they feel 05:00 a certain way only because get to a variety of different 05:05 places in a relationship. Now, I want to say I commend you 05:09 as a man for bringing it and laying it on the table 05:12 right...which is...Ladies there are some men who will day 05:16 things to you in order to get something from you. 05:19 Alright! I think this is a really big or an important part 05:24 to talk about this. And have a real conversation about it 05:26 right? [shakes his head yes] So you're saying that there are 05:29 times when men, and I guess women can do this too right? 05:32 When people can say things to you that they know have 05:36 power, cause words have power. Words have weight and that word 05:39 love is a powerful thing to say to someone...Um hum. Right? 05:43 Yeah and one of the reasons it's so powerful is because 05:46 of all of the ideas and dreams and what's, what not that we 05:51 have attached to it. You had some things attached to uh 05:55 the word I love you or the words I love you. 05:59 I absolutely had a lot of things attached so as you 06:02 mentioned, neither one of us came into our relationship 06:05 being virgins. We had had relationships prior coming to 06:08 the Lord, and even after coming to the Lord, we had had 06:11 relationships and so at that stage of my life I had made 06:17 a determination that I wasn't just going to date, right? 06:19 But I will say when you had expressed to me that you 06:23 wanted to marry me, I was looking for the word love. 06:25 Now if I am honest with myself, I had some very unhealthy 06:30 attachments to that word because of my background 06:33 where I come from, I witnessed people being abused 06:36 while the person's saying they love them... 06:38 I had also been in relationships where they say they love you 06:43 but put you in situations where you have to compromise 06:46 so I have to admit even as a Christian young woman who 06:50 loved God, I also still carried some very unhealthy expectations 06:55 about what people will say to you, what will happen 06:59 if someone says that they love you. 07:01 Hmm. One of the things that some of our friends might find 07:05 interesting is that we are having a conversation about the 07:09 power of the words I love you right at the marriage proposal. 07:15 Yes! Not before the marriage proposal. Yeah. 07:18 Some people are like well that should have happened before 07:20 and some people may say to themselves, well, I wish we had 07:23 had that conversation at all, even to this day but right there 07:27 we were talking...Yeah...And it's not as though we hadn't 07:31 talked before, certainly we had but we were talking 07:34 on a heart level which is kind of a different level 07:37 where you were expressing and explaining some of what your 07:42 dreams, hopes, and aspirations were. And as for me, 07:45 I was coming from the perspective of my 07:49 transformation. In fact, what did I say to you when you said 07:52 you've never told me that you love me? 07:55 Yeah, one of the things that you said...Well first there were 07:58 a couple of things...One thing was that you expressed to me 08:00 that about the desire that love is more than just an emotion. 08:05 Right, and I was with you and I'm like mmm...No you weren't... 08:09 I wasn't, I wasn't. You were still in the whole in love... 08:11 Love is a principle and I was just like yeah, yeah, but 08:16 you know, I wasn't really into that. But you began to continue 08:20 to talk to me and you had shared with me about how 08:21 you had used the word in past times, right, with other 08:25 relationships in a way that was not respectful or caring 08:28 and you wanted to be careful with that word when it 08:32 came to me. But this was the beautiful part, 08:34 the beautiful part you said to me as far as I know what 08:37 love is, I believe that I love you. 08:39 Hmm. And it was, I was verklempt when you said that. 08:46 But it made me think, I had to really sit and process 08:48 for a minute and I didn't answer you right away, did I? 08:50 I didn't say yes right away, we began this long conversation 08:54 about not just love but about relationship and in this 08:58 journey that we were going to be on, but I must say this 09:02 though. That night I eventually say yes. Yes! 09:06 That's why we're here today. Tadah! Still talking... 09:09 We're here and um, but what was so beautiful to me about that 09:15 was I had no feelings of pressure, no feelings of shame 09:21 or guilt. It was one of the easiest decisions and one of the 09:24 most awkward situation that I've ever made in my life. 09:28 In times past when I've had relationships as we just 09:31 shared with you, neither one of us, this wasn't our first 09:33 rodeo right? Unfortunately and I remember being in 09:36 relationships with people and feeling guilty. Hmm! 09:40 Knowing that we had said things or done things before its time 09:44 and just while in the relation- ship still carrying a weight... 09:49 I guess you could call it a weight of sin, 09:50 a weight of brokenness and shame knowing that we had done things 09:55 that were not warranted. But this was different, 09:59 this was a situation where we, we left that moment... 10:02 I was so light you know, and I also didn't realize that he 10:07 actually did speak to my parents, he called and 10:10 talked to my mom and my dad which was very unconventional 10:14 these days. And my parents... I remember before we left 10:19 to come to Tennessee me and your mom...I remember my parents 10:23 having prayer with me... Now this was strange, because 10:25 these people, I'm like what is wrong with this man and 10:27 his woman, it's like okay let's get on our knees 10:29 let's pray, life is going to be different, I'm like jus 10:31 going on a trip to Tennessee but it's because you called 10:36 my mom and my dad and you asked their permission 10:38 and that was powerful. That invited them into 10:42 this relationship with us and they felt respected, 10:47 they felt that you had honored them you know. 10:50 Yeah, II Corinthians chapter 5 verse 17 says, 11:02 So I didn't want to use I love you, I love you, I love you, 11:08 the way I had in my past life because I'm walking and living 11:14 in this new life and because I'm in this new life 11:17 I want to use new language or I want new meaning to be 11:22 attached to sometimes the same things that we said before 11:26 but there's a new type of meaning and I want to approach 11:28 everything different, right? 11:31 So this is the reason why I approached your parents, 11:34 it's the reason why in our relationship I approached you 11:38 the way that I did and you had a similar perspective 11:44 as you've explained just wanted to do things quite differently. 11:48 Yeah, and I was brought face to face with some cultural norms 11:52 right, and when I say cultural norms I'm talking about... 11:55 And I'm sure this happens in other cultures as well but 11:57 in North America, as little girls we are inundated with 12:00 the movies, right? And how a man comes along and sweeps you 12:05 off your feet and romanticizes things... 12:08 Now I am not saying there's anything wrong in the 12:09 day and age we live in you guys are really living it up 12:11 on Instagram and doing this really big thing with 12:14 engagements right? Yeah, yeah, but don't just live it up on 12:16 Instagram. Right! [laughing] Make sure that that's that it's 12:21 reality...Yes! And the picture looks just like reality, not... 12:24 Absolutely, but you know you come face to face with these 12:28 things right, and I have to be honest with myself 12:31 it was uncomfortable in a sense, it wasn't what I had dreamed 12:35 about right? But I remember the Lord speaking to me 12:39 and talking to me when I got up and went to the bathroom. 12:42 [laughing] Having conversations in the mirror, you know, 12:47 And the Lord was telling me about myself like Tamara, listen 12:50 this is not what you thought it would be or it's not like the 12:54 movies but life isn't a movie. This is reality and I want you 12:59 to consider and think about what's most important 13:02 in this process? This young man respects you, 13:05 this young man has never caused you to compromise, 13:07 he's never put you in a situation where you felt like 13:09 you had to compromise. He respects your family 13:12 and it was just all of these things that I had to allow 13:16 fill that space where there were other unhealthy things, right? 13:19 The imagination and how it can run wild and the...even as a 13:23 Christian young woman...Listen even as a Christian young woman 13:27 still having some unhealthy ways of looking at life... 13:32 I had to surrender that in that bathroom. 13:34 [laughing] It's God, to give it to Him and say okay Lord 13:38 I take it what you give for me and actually, I had prayed 13:42 for it. This is the thing, the very thing I had prayed for 13:45 there, you were right there. Come on now. 13:48 So I was an answer to your prayers. You were an answer 13:50 to prayer. Look at God. Won't he do it? 13:52 Yes, and the Lord is still answering prayer. Yes, he is. 13:55 You know another passage of scripture that I find interesting 14:00 is in Matthew chapter 12 and verse 34 at the end of the verse 14:04 Jesus says, 14:09 Yes! So back to this, I'm a new creature in Christ Jesus 14:14 and I'm not wanting to mislead, misrepresent, or any such thing 14:22 with my words. I want my words to really and truly be a 14:25 reflection of that which is in my heart which is a part 14:28 of the reason why it took so long...It took until that night 14:31 when I was proposing to you to actually, say yes I do love you. 14:37 And I'm still on the process, in the process of learning how 14:43 to love you and learning how to care for you 14:44 and provide for you in a way that is relevant to you 14:48 but I think there is kind of a misunderstanding. 14:50 as we were talking about but then there are times when 15:06 we may be angry or we may be frustrated and we say something 15:09 and it's like that old saying goes. If you want to know what 15:13 the person really thinks about you, listen to them when they 15:17 are angry because when they are angry that's when 15:19 they're honest and that's when they're telling you the truth. 15:22 So what will we say about that? 15:23 So, I love this talk we are having cause when we talk 15:27 this is what we do right? 15:28 Um, there is a thought process where anger is actually a 15:34 secondary emotion. What do you mean when you say 15:37 a secondary emotion? Alright, So I don't know, maybe you guys 15:39 have seen these illustrations given of an iceberg, right? 15:43 Um hum. Icebergs, they are you know, they are very large 15:47 right, but when they are above the surface of the water 15:50 you can't see the completeness of that iceberg, 15:52 you can only see the tip of it. Okay? So when we are talking 15:55 about anger, that is what we are talking about, 15:58 anger is what you can see right? 16:00 Anger is palpable, you can... you can...I mean listen... 16:02 The world we live in people are actually rewarded for this 16:06 right? That's why social media is such a large looming impact 16:11 on our society. People get paid to display anger right? 16:15 So, you can see it, it is visible but normally though 16:19 there are other things under- neath, that iceberg is 16:22 much larger underneath it, it has tentacles you can say 16:26 where there are other things that are there. 16:28 Things like let's say rejection. Um hum. Right? 16:30 So, if I feel rejected... most people don't come to me and say 16:34 excuse me, I'm very angry today cause you rejected my proposal 16:38 at work. Who does that? Right? Most people don't, right? 16:41 Most people just go straight for the anger, 16:44 they will be frustrated, they will slam doors and slam 16:47 dishes and...I think another way to illustrate that is 16:51 the baby. Ahh yeah. When an infant is hungry, what does the 16:57 infant do? They cry. When the infant has wet or soiled their 17:01 diaper what does the infant do? They cry. 17:04 When an infant wants to be picked up what do they do? 17:07 They cry. When an infant is frustrated what do they do? 17:13 Listen! Infants cry, cry, cry. That what they do. 17:16 It is the language that articulates for an array of 17:22 different emotions that this infant is having because 17:26 they simply don't have another language. Yes. 17:29 And anger becomes that for us. Yes. It just becomes you know 17:33 when we are tired we are angry. Um hum. When we are frustrated 17:37 when we are hurt when we are afraid anger comes out. 17:41 Now listen, we don't like that, or don't let me say we, 17:44 I don't. I've had to grow a lot because I wasn't raised in a 17:49 home where people asked me how I felt. Um. You understand 17:53 people didn't actually come to me and say, Tamara, you know 17:56 how are you feeling or why are you feeling or why are you 17:58 crying, or you know you just experienced something 18:01 catastrophic or traumatizing. How are you feeling? 18:05 And so therefore I didn't really have a vocabulary. Um hum. 18:10 We're going to talk about this in another episode so don't get 18:13 too caught on that but it's important okay? 18:15 But so I didn't have that so generally, I ended up... 18:18 I didn't have that so generally I learned how to suppress 18:21 you know and hold things down. But most importantly 18:24 like you talked about before the fear about being vulnerable. 18:27 Talk...Now for me...Listen... Especially for me, I would imagine 18:31 right? Yes. Being venerable our emotional feelings are huge. 18:34 Yeah, well let me just give you some perspective as to what 18:38 it means to be a man. Laughter and clapping! 18:40 You're learning how to rice your bicycle as a little boy 18:44 and you fall and inevitably scrape your knee. 18:49 Oh, man! And you are then coddled... no you are not. 18:52 Stop crying! you can take it, it will be alright. 18:56 Suck it up buttercup. Your kneecap is hanging down 18:58 to the white meat and you know, toughen up. 19:01 The white meat. Laughter. The white meat and you can take it 19:04 it will be okay. Right, whether you are playing football 19:08 or doing some other type of activity...Yeah... 19:10 When you get hurt and you are a little boy you're growing up 19:13 and you are told stop crying, don't cry. 19:17 When you are afraid, you are anxious, and you are physically 19:23 in pain and people are telling you STOP! Right. 19:28 And so, talking about how we don't have a vocabulary 19:32 this is one of the ways that our vocabulary is stunted, 19:36 the baroque of our vocabulary is stunted so that we can't 19:39 actually, learn how to articulate or when your parents are 19:44 disciplining you, maybe you done something wrong and you know 19:49 like most parents want us to tell what it is that we've done 19:53 and they give us the opportunity...Here we go. 19:56 So what did you do? And you are like, I, I, I, and you take 19:59 a little bit too long and then when you start to talk... 20:01 Be quiet, and it's like Oh my goodness. 20:04 What in the world? So you don't even get an opportunity again 20:08 to express. Or you learn that people don't really want to 20:14 hear what I have to say. That's what you believe and you know 20:18 um...Honestly, we teach our children to lie. 20:21 Umm. We're going to talk about this in some later episodes 20:26 okay, When We Talk. When We Talk. But we do, we teach our children 20:29 to lie and I reflect on that myself in raising children 20:33 cause we have, we have children and it is...Oh my goodness... 20:37 I'm learning so much about myself in the process, 20:42 some of the unhealthy ways in which I carried from how I was 20:46 raised and how they were raised and trying to develop that 20:51 freedom. I remember that our son Gabriel not too long ago 20:56 he was having a distressed moment and he watches what 21:01 I do because I am a mental health coach and a 21:05 Grief Recovery Counselor so he's present sometimes when 21:06 I'm doing sessions with people and listening. Listening. 21:10 He's listening, you know children listen. 21:12 And he...I keep these emotion wheels that I use to help 21:17 people...who don't have that vocabulary and I left one 21:22 laying around one day...didn't even pay attention 21:25 and my son, I was asking him like you know what's wrong? 21:28 You look like something is wrong and he's like 21:30 you know, nothing. You know people say that nothing 21:33 but you know something is wrong, your face gives it away. 21:35 How you are moving about in life is a way something is wrong. 21:39 He wouldn't talk to me, right? So I just kind of left it alone 21:44 but eventually, he came back to me and he said Mom... 21:47 and I was like, yeah sweetheart... he came and he 21:49 put this paper on the table and I saw the paper and opened it 21:52 and it was one of the emotion wheels and what he did was 21:55 he actually took dots and marked off... 21:58 he's like these are the things that I was feeling. 22:00 And listen, at that moment I want to tell you, it was such 22:04 a miraculous thing for me. For one, I praise God 22:07 for an opportunity to break a generational cycle. 22:11 When you say generational cycle you mean? 22:15 It was things that were continuously running 22:18 throughout my family. My parents didn't have the tools that 22:21 we have, their parents didn't have that, they grew up in a 22:24 time and in an era where people didn't have conversations 22:27 and transparency and honesty and they didn't even know how. 22:31 Right. People can only do what they know to do. Um hum. 22:34 And so but at that moment when he did that it was literally... 22:37 The Lord was like just listen, this is an opportunity, talk 22:40 to your son. Yeah, and what was also profound about that 22:43 is a skill and a tool that helps with those who have been 22:49 suppressing our emotions or we're completely illiterate 22:53 in terms of an emotional vocabulary...Yes... 22:57 You remember what that word is? Self-awareness 23:01 that's our word for the day y'all. Self-awareness. 23:04 That's the word...Yeah, yeah... And it's amazing because 23:07 the story you shared with our son Gabriel, it demonstrates 23:12 that self-awareness is something that can be modeled 23:16 and it's something that can be experienced. 23:18 Yeah. Even at a young age. Yeah. And when we say 23:22 self-awareness what we are referring to is our ability 23:25 to be able to identify and articulate our emotions 23:31 and what they are. It's one of the most important things 23:34 one of the most important elements in emotionally healthy 23:38 individual and if we want to be able to communicate 23:42 and share with others what we are experiencing and what we are 23:46 feeling, well then it makes all the sense in the world that 23:49 we should be able to identify and articulate...we should be 23:52 able to attach words because words have power, right? 23:55 Yes. We should be able to attach words to what our feelings are. 23:59 Yeah, you know when we talk its important that in that process 24:04 that we have a foundation. Right. And this emotion will 24:11 who knew there were so many ways a person could feel. 24:14 There are so many ways you can express happiness. 24:17 There is so many ways to express frustration or anger, 24:20 or even sadness, right? I think that we want to make sure 24:25 that we are doing our very best in our homes and 24:30 I don't know about you guys, but we are trying to be 24:32 generational curse breakers over here and we're not perfect 24:35 if my children were here, they would tell you we're not perfect. 24:38 Um hum. But we are trying and we just wanted to be able to 24:41 come here and encourage you guys that talking is valuable. 24:45 When you talk, that is when you are able to mature and 24:49 grow and it is hard. It is one of the most difficult things 24:52 that you will do if you haven't had the opportunity and you 24:56 haven't had the upbringing or the examples. 24:59 But listen, Jesus is our example, He will guide us 25:03 through this process and so I value that. 25:06 Yeah, and this is important as well. 25:09 When we talk, we can talk with our spouse of course...Yeah. 25:14 As we share some of our marriage experiences but we can also 25:18 talk with our children, we can talk with our siblings...Yes. 25:23 We can talk with our parents, our neighbors, our neighbors, 25:27 our co-workers, our co-workers, our relationships require... 25:29 Church members, Choir, friends, so forth and so on. 25:32 All relationships require it. Yes, yes, yes. 25:35 Talking and being able to share and divulge what is going on 25:39 in our hearts and in our minds is a profound part of any 25:43 healthy relationship. Yes. So listen guys, 25:46 this is what we do when we talk, we are inviting you 25:49 to come and sit down and have some real conversations 25:52 vulnerable conversations. We are throwing ourselves 25:54 under the bus so we want to make sure you tune in every 25:57 single time we come to this table and we talk. 26:01 Now you can watch episodes of When we Talk with Steve and 26:06 Tammy Conway any time at 3ABN- Plus.tv or on our 3ABNPlus app 26:14 or smartphones and tablets. Discover the keys to healthier 26:18 family relationships and better communication. 26:21 Just visit 3ABNPlus.TV and search for When we Talk. 26:27 Put your feet on the path to relationships like God intended 26:30 them to be. Friends, if you're like me being vulnerable in 26:35 expressing and exposing what's in my heart can often be a 26:39 challenging thing. Sometimes I want a positive response 26:43 but what comes out of my mouth is not really positive. 26:47 Psalm 129:23,24 suggest this. Search me O God, try me 26:56 and know my thoughts. Now when I used to read that 26:59 passage I would say but God is Omniscient, 27:01 He knows everything. Why would he need to search my heart? 27:05 The truth of the matter friends is that the search is not for 27:09 the benefit of God, but it is for the benefit of us. 27:12 If you've ever been to a museum it's possible to walk through 27:17 the museum and see all of the exhibits and you can leave 27:20 in an hour and a half with a great experience and you can 27:23 say Wow!, I saw a lot of nice things but...you can also go 27:27 to the museum and you can find a Tour Guide. 27:30 And the Tour Guide does more than just show you what's 27:34 in the museum, the Tour Guide actually explains what it is 27:38 you are seeing, the history behind each one of the pieces 27:42 of art and I believe that Jesus does just this with you and I 27:48 and He does it, not in a museum but in our hearts. 27:53 He helps us to understand ourselves our experiences 27:58 and our emotions. I invite you today to allow Jesus to be the 28:06 Tour Guide as He takes you room by room through your hear 28:11 helping you to see what is there, why? 28:15 Hopefully when He shows you you can do what each and every 28:19 one of us is invited to do surrender it to Him. 28:23 Friends, catch you next time on When we Talk 28:27 because when we talk we Heal. |
Revised 2023-07-31