Participants: Wintley Phipps (Host), Adly Campos, Dr E T Stoddart, Ruthie Jacobson
Series Code: PFM
Program Code: PFM000005A
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00:27 Hi, I'm Wintley Phipps,
00:28 and welcome to our program Perfecting Me, 00:31 Becoming More Like Jesus. 00:34 I'm so glad you joined us. 00:36 My guests today on our program are Ruthie Jacobsen, 00:39 Head of Prayer Ministry of the North American division 00:41 of Seventh-day Adventist, 00:43 Pastor Errol Stoddart, 00:44 Senior Pastor of the Church of the Oranges 00:46 of Seventh-day Adventist in Orange, New Jersey, 00:49 and Mrs. Adly Campos, 00:51 Speaker and President of Family Well-Being International. 00:54 You'll hear from them a little later. 00:57 Throughout the 17th and 18th centuries, 01:00 Antonio Stradivari, built the most extraordinary violins. 01:05 The beauty and clarity of the sound are legendary. 01:10 In 2010, centuries later, 01:13 one of his violins sold for $16 million. 01:18 As he labored in his studio, Stradivari had one rule. 01:23 No violin was to leave the shop 01:26 until it was as close to perfection 01:30 as humanly possible. 01:32 He's known to have said, 01:34 "God needs violins to send His music into the world, 01:39 and if my violins are defective, 01:42 God's music will be spoiled." 01:45 I believe the lives we live are God's music to the world. 01:51 And in order for the music to be as beautiful as possible, 01:55 our lives must be emptied of all 01:58 that is unlike the character of God. 02:01 Our lives must be in tune with the beauty of holiness. 02:07 If you are like me, you probably view 02:08 becoming more like God and developing His character 02:12 as both exciting and daunting, noble and intimidating, 02:18 a great dream and some think impossible. 02:22 It has taken me many years to understand 02:24 that to become a follower of Jesus, 02:27 means to live as He lived. 02:29 And no matter how overwhelming the thought, 02:32 to accomplish that goal, 02:34 I had to embrace the pursuit of divine perfection 02:40 and the character of God as my life's primary goal. 02:44 I began to see the pursuit of divine perfection 02:47 as fundamental to my character development 02:51 and spiritual progress. 02:53 This is what our program is all about today, 02:56 Perfecting Me. 03:03 Because of sin for the last 6,000 years, 03:08 true perfection, inherent, innate, 03:12 natural born perfection has not been available to us. 03:17 The Bible says we were born in sin and shapen in iniquity. 03:23 In sin, did my mother conceive me? 03:27 On this side of the fall of Adam and Eve, 03:29 there has never been true inborn, 03:32 inbred perfection. 03:35 Sin and iniquity has been a visitor to our fathers 03:38 and children unto the third and fourth generation. 03:42 When the forbidden fruit was eaten in disobedience, 03:45 perfection for man died, and sin began its reign. 03:50 And since that day, 03:52 no man has been able to claim true perfection. 03:58 Romans 3:10 says, "As it is written, 04:01 'There is none righteous, no not one.'" 04:06 Today, mankind lives in a swamp of imperfection. 04:11 Romans 3:23 says, "For all have sinned 04:15 and come short of the glory of God." 04:19 If that be true, 04:20 how is it then that the Word of God call 04:24 some imperfect men of God perfect? 04:29 Genesis 6:9, the Bible says, 04:32 "These are the generations of Noah. 04:35 Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, 04:41 and Noah walked with God." 04:43 The Book of Job 1:1 says, 04:46 "There was a man in the land of Uz, 04:48 whose name was Job, 04:51 and that man was perfect and upright, 04:55 and one that feared God, and eschewed evil." 05:00 How could this be? 05:02 I believe, it is because God has a very different view 05:05 of perfection than we do. 05:10 You see, there are other definitions of perfection 05:12 than the one we subscribe to usually. 05:16 They are definitions of perfection like, 05:19 "I believe God embraces. 05:21 I believe He applies to the human condition." 05:25 These are definitions of perfection 05:28 that are full of grace, full of mercy. 05:32 The first definition of perfection 05:34 we need to understand 05:35 is the definition that sees something perfect, 05:40 that is as free of flaws and defects 05:45 as much as possible. 05:48 I'm a singer, and I can tell you every singer 05:52 in every song makes mistakes. 05:56 But the great ones make a stumble 05:59 look like a pirouette. 06:02 I want you to know the very best we can 06:06 and the very best we know how 06:10 God sees us doing that 06:13 and says perfect. 06:17 Yes, 06:18 God sees our trying sincerely to be perfect, 06:24 and He gives us a perfect grade 06:28 for trying to be perfect. 06:32 Have you ever had a teacher 06:33 give you a poor grade but an A for effort? 06:38 Well, God sees us doing the best we know how, 06:42 and God says perfect, A for effort. 06:49 The servant of Lord says, 06:50 "We are to bring glory to God by doing our best 06:56 to be perfect men and perfect women." 07:01 Christ looks at the spirit, 07:03 and when He sees us carrying our burden with faith, 07:07 His perfect holiness atones for our shortcomings. 07:13 And when we do our best, He becomes our righteousness, 07:20 He becomes our perfection. 07:24 Wow. 07:26 What a God! 07:27 As we do our best, 07:29 the blessing of God will rest upon us. 07:32 Shall we not arise as servant of God and build? 07:37 Many believe, "Because Jesus paid it all, 07:40 we are not required to do anything at all. 07:45 And because our mistakes are covered, 07:47 we don't have to stress ourselves 07:50 about repeating those mistakes occasionally, 07:54 or maybe regularly, or even frequently." 07:57 And we console ourselves with that mantra, 08:00 "Nobody is perfect." 08:02 The truest perfection man will ever know 08:06 is not determined by his personal achievements 08:11 but rather by his possession of the virtues of Christ, 08:16 like simplicity, humility, 08:18 and joyful obedience to the will of God. 08:22 So God sees that as being perfect as He is perfect. 08:29 God reckons our sincere efforts 08:32 to be like the Father and the Son, 08:35 and He says, "Perfect." 08:38 God is pleased with men who do not think that 08:41 they have attained perfection 08:44 but who are constantly trying to improve. 08:49 And He would have us come into connection with Himself 08:54 and increase in understanding. 08:57 He wants us to reform our habits 09:00 always rising higher 09:02 and approaching nearer the standard of perfection. 09:08 And so if we do our best, 09:12 it is all the Lord requires. 09:15 He will give us the strength to do our best, 09:20 and we can resist temptation 09:23 not in our own strength but in His strength. 09:29 Let every one of us ask ourselves, 09:32 "Am I a genuine Christian? 09:34 Am I doing my very best to perfect a character 09:40 after the divine model?" 09:43 I want you to see a video of a man 09:45 doing the best he can for the Lord, 09:47 courtesy of our friends from CBN News. 10:00 Playing music comes as naturally as breathing 10:03 for 58-year-old Blues musician Daryl Davis. 10:06 Well, I've been playing music professionally full-time 10:09 since 1980 10:11 when I graduated college at the age of 22. 10:14 Through music, Davis has formed some unique friendships. 10:17 That's Sam Philips, the man who discovered Elvis Presley, 10:21 Chuck Berry, the boxer, Joe Frager, 10:24 Dolly Parton. 10:25 And also unlikely ones. 10:27 And that was the head of the Maryland Ku Klux Klan. 10:31 How did you get to be friends with members of the KKK? 10:34 I just happened to be, in 1983, 10:38 a country music had made a resurgence in this country. 10:41 So I was the only black guy in this country band 10:45 and consequently the only black guy 10:48 in the many other places where we played. 10:49 One place was the Silver Dollar Lounge in Frederick, Maryland. 10:53 After a performance, a white man stopped Davis 10:56 as he walked off the stage. 10:58 And he says, 10:59 "You know, I really like your all's music." 11:01 And I said, "Thank you." I shook his hand. 11:03 And I don't drink but I went back to his table, 11:05 and I had a cranberry juice with him. 11:07 And then he makes the remark 11:08 when the waitresses brings my cranberry juice, 11:10 he clings my glass and cheers me. 11:12 He says, "You know, this is the first time 11:14 I ever sat down and have a drink with the black man." 11:17 Well, I'm thinking, "Well, it was one night, 11:18 this guy was really having a night of first, 11:21 and I said why? 11:22 And again I was naive. 11:25 And I wasn't trying to be facetious. 11:27 I said, "Well, why is that?" 11:29 He stared at the table top and didn't answer me, 11:32 and then hit a friend sitting next to me, 11:34 he goes, "Tell him, tell him, tell him." 11:36 I said, "Tell me." 11:37 And finally he says, "I'm a member of Ku Klux Klan." 11:40 Since age 10, 11:42 when first confronted with the realities of racism, 11:44 Davis pondered one question, 11:46 "How can you hate me when you don't know me?" 11:49 His unlikely KKK connection 11:51 inspired him to start getting answers. 11:53 Some years later, 11:55 well, I decided I was going to write a book on the Klan. 11:59 His research often put him in some dangerous situations, 12:03 but it also led to an unexpected change 12:05 in the relationship he shared with certain Klan members. 12:08 I would ask them questions 12:10 and they would answer the questions. 12:13 But they wouldn't ask for my opinion. 12:14 And then overtime, you know, I would say, 12:18 "So what do you think about blah, blah, blah?" 12:21 And they would say, "Well, I think dadadadada." 12:24 And then they would say, 12:25 "Well, what do you think about it, Daryl?" 12:28 "Oh, wait a minute. All of a sudden I have value." 12:30 Davis says he's convinced 25 members of the Ku Klux Klan 12:34 to leave the organization 12:35 simply through friendly conversation. 12:37 And when they did so, 12:39 they gave me their robes and hoods, 12:40 that's just not done. 12:41 Yeah. 12:43 Yeah, this uniform represents white supremacy. 12:46 And you're taking it off and giving it to a black man. 12:48 As a new generation of African-Americans 12:51 enter adulthood, 12:52 they're fighting racism their own way 12:54 rather than trying to change one mind at a time 12:57 as Davis has done, 12:58 this activists generation is using social media 13:01 to reach the masses. 13:03 Some in the Black Lives Matter movement 13:05 have been critical of Davis, 13:06 saying he is defeating their purpose 13:08 with his relational approach. 13:10 The fact that I would sit down 13:12 and spend so much time with the enemy 13:14 when I should be devoting my time 13:16 to changing the system of one supremacy. 13:18 Davis believes this younger generation 13:20 has the right intent, 13:22 although their methods can taint the mission. 13:24 You need a multi pronged attack from the front, from the side, 13:28 from the back, through the rear window, whatever. 13:30 You don't change the system, 13:33 without changing the people behind the system. 13:36 Okay? 13:37 That's why I'm sitting down with them and I've had success. 13:40 Caitlin Burke, CBN News. Baltimore, Maryland. 13:48 Joining us again are my guests, Ruthie Jacobsen, Adly Campos, 13:52 and Pastor Errol Stoddart. 13:54 I want to tell you all about one of the most amazing moments 13:58 I've ever had in my life. 14:00 I spent two hours riding in a car 14:03 from London, England to Oxford 14:06 with a gentleman by the name of Dr. John Stott. 14:10 And if you've never heard that name, 14:11 he's one of the great preachers and theologians of our time. 14:14 As a matter of fact, he used to be the chaplain 14:18 to the Queen of England 14:20 from 1959 to 1992, 14:26 that's quite a long run 14:28 to be the chaplain of the Queen of England. 14:30 Well, before he died, he preached his last sermon. 14:36 And he said, "After all my teaching, 14:39 after all my writing, all the books I've published, 14:42 I leave you with one recommendation, 14:44 one thing I must recommend to you," he said, 14:47 "It's Christ-likeness." 14:50 And then he said these words, 14:52 "Christ-likeness is the will of God 14:56 for the people of God." 14:58 And so I want to start off by asking you, Pastor Stoddart, 15:03 when we pursue Christ-likeness, we're pursuing perfection. 15:07 But let me ask you, 15:09 how important do you think it is for the church of God 15:14 to begin to focus on Christ-likeness 15:19 as the will of God for the people of God? 15:24 I think, it's very, very important. 15:26 I think it's absolutely important. 15:28 One of the popular terms 15:31 we hear today is the term secular Christianity 15:34 which is an oxymoron. 15:36 Is Christianity that's trying to be as... 15:41 Have as least of Christ as possible, 15:43 or the act as on Christ-like as possible 15:47 while still being called a Christian. 15:49 It's the minimalist mindset of Christianity, 15:53 Christianity at the bare minimum. 15:56 And what God is calling us to do, 15:58 is Christianity that's absolute surrender. 16:01 The song says all to Jesus I surrender. 16:05 My fear is that there are so many Christians 16:07 who are singing some to Jesus, I surrender, I surrender some. 16:13 And there's no such thing as some, it's all or nothing. 16:16 Yes. 16:17 Ruthie, how important is Christ-likeness 16:19 to the people of God. 16:22 And we have not always had that as our primary focus. 16:28 Do you think it's important to reclaim Christ-likeness 16:32 as the focus for God's people? 16:35 Well, absolutely. 16:37 And I think it was important to Christ 16:39 because He taught His followers to abide in Him. 16:44 He said, "If you want to be like me, 16:47 abide in the vine, 16:49 because you have no life without that." 16:52 So He drew from nature, He showed in different ways, 16:57 stories and parables, 16:59 that the whole thing boils down to being like Christ, 17:02 and abiding in the vine, 17:04 taking that life from the vine out to the branches, 17:08 and then being useful and bearing fruit. 17:10 Yes. 17:11 I don't think the church can bear fruit 17:13 without the Christ-likeness. 17:14 Yes, go ahead, Adly. 17:17 Yes, I'm thinking the moment 17:20 before Jesus' ascension to heaven, 17:23 as He gave us the mission, and in His mission, 17:27 He said that we were to preach by testimony... 17:31 Yeah. 17:33 In order to take His gospel to all the earth. 17:37 So it is absolutely important 17:42 that we take that seriously, 17:45 and talk about it, and begin to live 17:49 exactly like He wants us to live 17:51 in order to be that testimony 17:53 and preach not only by His word but most of all, 17:56 by the way we live, 17:58 the way we represent Christ on this earth. 18:01 I'm wondering, what are some of the things you think 18:06 the church has often placed ahead of Christ-likeness. 18:12 What are some of the priorities that our organizations, 18:16 and what are some of the efforts 18:19 you think we have put? 18:20 I'm trying to be diplomatic and nice 18:22 but maybe you don't have to be, 18:24 but what are some of the things, 18:26 Pastor Stoddart, do you think the churches... 18:29 And you notice, I went to you first which is great, 18:31 which is great. 18:33 What are some of the things 18:34 that we often put ahead of Christ-likeness? 18:40 Well, you know, the unique thing 18:42 about being a Seventh-day Adventist 18:44 is that we are doctrinally heavy. 18:47 We are heavy on doctrine 18:49 because our doctrines are the unique features 18:53 that separate us, 18:55 that set us apart from everybody else. 18:57 Yes. 18:59 And the challenge is that 19:02 while it is important to emphasize doctrine, 19:05 many times, we emphasize doctrine 19:08 at the expense of transformation 19:12 into the character of Christ. 19:14 Yes. 19:15 And that is something that is important for us 19:19 to ensure that we're making that shift back 19:22 to keeping the main thing the main thing. 19:25 It is the character of Christ first, 19:27 it is godliness first, 19:30 it is receiving Him and reflecting Him first, 19:34 and then the rest of it coming at the secondary level. 19:37 Beautiful. 19:39 Ruthie, you know, go ahead, you're going to say something. 19:43 What were you going to ask me? 19:44 Yeah, I was just going to say that, 19:46 I was just introducing and following on what he said. 19:51 The idea that the servant of God says 19:54 that the last message that will be given to the world 19:59 is the message about Christ character 20:04 and the loving character of God. 20:05 Now we don't often teach that. 20:09 We think it's another message, maybe it's a prophetic message. 20:13 And sometimes, I tell people, 20:17 "What does it matter 20:18 if you know the details of prophecy 20:21 but in your character, you're not prepared 20:24 for the fulfillment of prophecy? 20:26 So as important as prophecy is, 20:31 it has to take a backseat to us resembling, 20:36 reflecting, and revealing the character of Christ. 20:39 Because sadly, there are going to be a lot of people 20:43 when the Lord comes who know a lot about prophecy 20:46 who don't look like him in character. 20:49 But, Ruthie, what were you going to share? 20:52 Well, I was just going to say, He has already told us 20:56 what His response is going to be. 20:58 He'll say, "I don't know you." Yes. 21:01 And I think, in our churches today, 21:04 the temptation is, we need more programs, 21:08 we need more sophisticated technology, 21:12 we need more funds, we need our resources, 21:16 when really what we need is Christ. 21:19 Yeah. 21:20 We need prayer, 21:22 we need to be on our faces before Him 21:24 realizing that we have power only in one place. 21:27 We cannot do this. 21:30 Who are we trying to kid, we need God. 21:31 Absolutely, you know, I was going to say, Ruthie, 21:33 that we always say and you hear it all over, 21:39 we need Jesus, we need Christ. 21:43 And I hear that a lot in our churches, 21:45 but we don't break that down to really interpret 21:49 what that means and what it really means 21:51 is we need people 21:53 who reflect Christ as Pastor Stoddart said, 21:56 we need people who resemble Him. 21:59 Yes, we need Christ, but Christ has to be seen in us. 22:05 Sister Campos? 22:07 In controlling... 22:08 Go ahead, Ruthie. 22:11 I was just going to say, 22:12 I've heard you say more than once, 22:14 I bury a lot of mean people. 22:17 Yes. 22:18 And I don't think you would have to do that 22:22 if these people knew the Lord, were walking in the light, 22:26 and were sharing His love. 22:29 I think people would be really missing them 22:33 and realizing that here we lost someone 22:36 who loved Christ, and Christ was in control. 22:40 Sister Campos, you had a thought on that 22:43 you can share? 22:45 Yes, I agree with Ruthie 22:47 that we are concentrating too much on entertainment. 22:53 Wow. 22:54 The type of worship service that everybody wants 22:57 and trying to please every one else 22:59 rather than to think 23:01 what pleases our God in our worship service. 23:05 In my person, as I worship Him, 23:08 as I try to imitate Him instead of imitating the world 23:13 and bringing the world into our church. 23:17 You know, one of the things that Lord showed me 23:19 was that the most fiery, red hot, 23:24 blistering sermon Jesus ever preached 23:27 was not to confirmed sinners 23:30 but to the most devout religious people of His day, 23:35 the Pharisees. 23:36 He called them, you know, 23:38 graves full of dead men's bones. 23:40 And I was wondering why was Jesus so hard on them 23:44 because they were actually the evangelist of their day. 23:47 A lot of people don't know that, 23:48 that was the role of the Pharisees. 23:51 The role of the Pharisees 23:52 was to study scriptures with people, 23:55 baptize them by immersion, the Pharisees, 23:58 and when you came up out of the water, 23:59 you are a new Jew. 24:01 And Jesus said of them, 24:03 "You go to the ends of the earth 24:05 to make these new members to these new proselytes, 24:09 but when you're through with them, 24:11 they're twice the child of hell that you are." 24:14 Those were the words of Jesus. Yeah. 24:16 But what Lord showed me, what Jesus was saying is, 24:20 "When you're through with them, 24:22 they look more like you than they look like me." 24:27 Wow, yeah. 24:28 And that is what God is looking for. 24:32 When He looks at us, He's looking for people 24:35 who look like His son. 24:36 And that's what Jesus is looking for. 24:38 Amen. 24:39 And what else... 24:41 Go ahead, go ahead. 24:42 Here is a challenge, Wintley, 24:43 I think as a pastor and I'm on ground zero. 24:48 Yes. 24:49 I have about a 1,000 members in my church, 24:52 and you get the spectrum of people, 24:55 the good, the bad, and the ugly. 24:56 Yes. 24:58 The challenge is that, a lot of times, 25:02 because of our doctrinal emphasis, 25:04 because of our theological emphasis 25:07 as opposed to a transformational emphasis, 25:10 people believe that conversion is about knowledge, 25:14 how much information I have, 25:15 because I have a certain amount of information. 25:17 It automatically suggest that I'm converted 25:20 when really conversion, and following Jesus, 25:25 and being the disciple of Christ, 25:27 and reflecting His character is going to involve number one, 25:31 speaking His word. 25:33 Yes. We have just 10 seconds, yes. 25:35 Number two, acting like Him. 25:36 Speaking, acting. 25:37 And number three, 25:39 treating people the way He would treat them. 25:41 Absolutely, absolutely. Thank you so much. 25:43 You've been such a blessing today. 25:46 Thank you for being with us. 25:52 God the Father is our true standard of perfection. 25:57 God alone is our standard of perfection. 26:02 He is our pattern, our model, 26:06 the yardstick by which we measure true perfection. 26:12 All perfection is found only in Him. 26:17 Our Father is perfect, 26:20 and there is no real perfection apart from Him. 26:26 The only true perfection we have 26:28 comes from the Father and through His son, Jesus. 26:35 Too many see this word perfection 26:37 as incompatible with God's grace and mercy, 26:40 and we fail to see that that word perfection 26:45 is precisely why God gave us grace and mercy. 26:50 So that the perfection heaven demands 26:54 and the perfection we do not now possess 26:58 may be miraculously aligned and reconciled. 27:04 Today, the pendulum has swung to the other extreme. 27:06 Many believe, "Because Jesus paid it all, 27:10 we are not required to do anything at all. 27:16 And because our mistakes are covered, 27:17 we don't have to stress ourselves 27:20 about repeating the same mistakes 27:25 regularly or even frequently." 27:27 But I believe as we surrender to Christ, 27:31 He gives us His perfection. 27:35 I'm Wintley Phipps. 27:37 I hope you've enjoyed this program today, 27:40 and remember, to be a Christian 27:44 means to be Christ-like all day, 27:50 every day, no excuses. |
Revised 2018-01-25