Participants: Danny Shelton & Yvonne Lewis (Host), John & Angie Lomacang
Series Code: TDY
Program Code: TDY016002A
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09:59 I was not an illegitimate child but I had illegitimate parents
10:03 'cause I didn't do anything. 10:05 That's good. But I just showed up. 10:06 That's good, you just showed up. 10:07 I just showed up. Yeah. 10:09 And the Lord is so gracious that when He saw the journey 10:13 that I was about to take, we've talked about this. 10:17 Excuse me, I keep saying we because we have that 10:19 open communication all the time. 10:20 We talk about our lives together. 10:22 And I can't wait to get to her. 10:23 But it's gonna be amazing. 10:25 But I look back and say before I had to experience 10:30 the traumas of a abandoned child, 10:33 'cause my mom and dad abandoned me, 10:35 left me at a babysitter. 10:36 And to be more specific, at three months old, 10:39 I was left at a babysitter. 10:40 My sister was only three years old. 10:42 They walked away, never came back. 10:44 And when I wrote the book and I'll talk about that later, 10:47 the hardest thing was to look back on 10:49 how I began and where I am today. 10:52 So the Lord allowed me to be in a home 10:55 of an Adventist lady. 10:58 Christian. 10:59 Christian Adventist lady and she became my anchor 11:03 that developed and formed much of my character today 11:07 and I don't believe I would be who I am today 11:09 had it not been for that, God stepped in, 11:12 do you know there is a song I wrote 11:15 on one of my projects called "If He Only Knew." 11:17 You know, "Soft and so small, yet, 11:19 he would call for love to come his way. 11:21 He looked at the eyes of his life 11:23 hoping love was there to stay 11:25 but if he only knew that roads would part, 11:28 you could hear him say." 11:30 And so, I didn't know 11:32 anything about mom and dad not being there 11:34 so when I got to the point of consciously 11:36 understanding my world, 11:37 I had a mom and dad that were there. 11:39 My mama was 50 and papa, the man who raised me, 11:44 Mr. George Haynes and Carmen Haynes, 11:46 Trinidad and Barbados, they were from. 11:48 He was from Barbados, she was from Trinidad. 11:50 He was 49 years old when he decided to raise 11:53 this three-moth old child. 11:54 She was 50. 11:55 So how many people would put their lives 11:57 in that kind of place at that advanced stage 12:02 to raise a three-month old and three-year old. 12:05 Absolutely. 12:07 And so that was a tremendous blessing. 12:08 So the beauty of John's story is that people can say, 12:12 well, you know, you are a Christian because, 12:15 you know, you were born 12:17 with the silver spoon in your mouth 12:18 and you had wonderful parents and you were the, 12:21 you know, raised by Christians and in your case, 12:25 you came into the world with a great disadvantage. 12:27 Two parents who didn't really want you. 12:28 Right. 12:30 I mean, that's you got to deal, 12:31 you have to deal with that the rest of your life, 12:33 your entire life. 12:34 I'm sure that that still comes up from time to time 12:38 and things that you do, 12:39 the way you think, it has to come up. 12:42 And somehow young people turn that on themselves. 12:46 "What about me, I must have not been lovable." 12:49 Three-months old, you are nothing but loveable. 12:52 So as you said, it's your parents 12:54 who were illegitimate, not you. 12:55 That's right. 12:57 But coming from that, 12:58 then to see you today traveling around the world, 13:01 balanced in your theology, you know, 13:03 which is, you know, I hate to say, 13:07 it's almost commodity today, 13:10 even in our church to people who are very, 13:12 speakers who are balanced, not afraid to give the truth, 13:15 we're giving it but we give it with love. 13:17 Somebody who is marriage counselor, 13:19 somebody who is literally sang with Heritage Singers, 13:22 travels around the world singing, you preach, you teach 13:25 and plays basketball very well too. 13:27 But all of those things, it is ripe old age now. 13:30 He's still out there showing up 13:32 the young kids on Tuesday nights. 13:33 I know I'm a witness to it all. 13:35 But you know, to see God bring you 13:38 from where the devil wanted to destroy you, 13:41 he wanted to destroy you. Oh, yeah. 13:42 And then God said, "No, I've come to give you life 13:44 and give it more abundantly." 13:46 That's right. 13:47 So now we want to hold it right there for you 13:50 and we want to go back to Angie. 13:53 Angie, where were you born and tell us about 13:55 your background, your heritage? 13:57 Okay. 13:58 I was born in a place called Derby, England. 14:00 It's in Midlands. Okay. 14:02 English. She's British. 14:05 She's British. Yeah. 14:06 Okay. 14:08 I was born in England, as a matter of fact, 14:09 I went to get a, as I was at the doctor's office yesterday 14:11 and the lady looked at my paper work, 14:14 she said, "Oh, you're born in England." 14:15 I said, "Yeah." 14:17 She said, "What are you doing here?" 14:19 Living. Yeah. 14:21 I said, "Well, I left when I was just a little girl." 14:24 But anyway, my mom and dad, they had eight children 14:28 and I'm the youngest of eight. 14:29 Okay. 14:30 Five were born in Jamaica, and the last three, 14:33 Cliff, Lecie and I were born in England. 14:37 And that's pretty, 14:40 after my father died, we left... 14:43 How old were you then about, when your father died? 14:48 I was three. Okay. 14:49 Yeah. All right. 14:50 I was three years old, just... 14:52 So you don't have too many memories of your father. 14:54 So had single mother. Yeah, yeah. 14:56 One mother, one father all of us. 14:58 Wonderful mother. 14:59 We all got to know and love ourselves 15:01 around her for so many years. 15:02 Wonderful mother. She taught us. 15:03 So you left England, you went to Jamaica? 15:05 No, no. 15:07 My mother's sister lived in New York. 15:10 Okay. And we went to New York. 15:13 You went to New York. 15:14 Yeah. Okay. 15:15 So we, after my father died, we all left like two at a time 15:19 because there's too many of us to leave all at once. 15:21 So we at different years, one left, 15:25 two of them left early and then another three with my mom 15:28 and then the other three. 15:29 So we left in pieces I would say. 15:32 So anyway, we moved to Brooklyn. 15:33 My aunt owned a eight, eight family, yeah, 15:39 house in Brooklyn. 15:40 Oh, wow. Yeah. 15:41 She owned it and we all lived in that house and... 15:46 And was your mom a Christian at that point? 15:47 She was an Adventist, a wonderful, loved the Lord. 15:51 She taught us how to keep yourself as a young lady, 15:56 how to carry yourself, how to, how to pray 16:01 and I always saw my mother praying. 16:04 So I love that and so I got that from her, 16:07 watching her pray and that's why I'm always praying 16:09 for this man next to me. 16:10 That's right. 16:12 How did you meet John? 16:13 Oh, that's nice. Wow. 16:15 We could both tell the story. You start. 16:16 Me? 16:18 Yeah, sure. Okay. 16:19 We're used to hearing him. We want to hear you. 16:21 There you go. Okay, okay. 16:22 Let's see. 16:23 Here we are in a, I'm in Brooklyn 16:25 and we went to the same church, Bethel Church. 16:28 And all, 'cause I came to this country 16:31 when I was just seven and we went to that church so did he. 16:34 But we didn't know each other then. 16:36 We went up in the same church but you know, 16:38 Bethel was huge, 1200 members. 16:40 Big church and so one Sabbath afternoon, 16:44 I saw this guy and I said to, I saw him and so, 16:48 I said to my friend. I was about 16. 16:50 And I said to my friend, "Who's that guy over there? 16:53 Oh, oh. 16:54 And he says, "His name is John," Stop it. 16:57 And he had afro, pretty curly afro, big afro, 17:03 he had a dungaree, a jeans jacket 17:05 and like a little bag on his shoulder and I said, 17:08 I want to meet him. 17:09 And I said, oh, I can't wait to meet him. 17:13 So Chris introduced me to him. 17:14 And... 17:16 Let me tell the other side of that. 17:17 Okay. Go ahead. 17:18 'Cause this is really funny. 17:20 We'll make sure we get a picture up with that afro 17:21 and we'll make sure we get that. 17:24 And so when we, 17:27 so this friend, we had mutual friend named Chris. 17:29 The context of that, I had been looking at her 17:31 for since I started hitting teenage years, 17:34 maybe about three years earlier and I thought, 17:36 "Don't even try it 'cause she ain't gonna give you 17:38 the time or day. 17:39 You're knucklehead, she's too fine." 17:41 And you look at both of her sisters, you know, 17:43 she has hazel eyes, her sister blue eyes 17:45 and they always came to church. 17:46 It was during the era Yvonne 17:48 where girls are wearing the maxi dresses. 17:49 Okay. 17:50 And they always come to church looking like queens. 17:52 She and her sister hook them up like something royal. 17:54 So they come to church, her older sister, 17:56 so they come to church and guys like, 17:58 "Whoa, did you see Lecie in there? 18:00 I don't even know their names. 18:01 So when her friend said, "Hey, this girl wants to meet you." 18:04 I said, "Well, who?" He said, "Her" 18:05 I said, "Yeah, right." Yeah, really. 18:08 And he said, "No, really, seriously. 18:10 She does." 18:11 So it was like a major butterfly moment for me 18:15 because she was, is, still today... 18:18 Fine. Fine. 18:20 Cute and young and cheerful and so you know, 16 years old, 18:23 it's like girls in their prime, and but go ahead 18:27 and take it from there. 18:28 Oh, okay. 18:30 So anyway, we met. 18:33 But my cousin liked him. Oh, okay. 18:36 The cousin that introduced you? 18:37 No. 18:39 It's the guy who introduced us but I was with my cousin. 18:40 But she is really flirty. She liked him. 18:42 I'm like and she always got all the guys 18:44 'cause she had that real nice shape. 18:46 She always got all the guys. 18:49 And I'm like "how dare she?" 18:50 I didn't notice. 18:52 Anyway she just didn't get anywhere. 18:56 That's right. Yeah. 18:57 So we connected and but I had five brothers he really, 19:02 I wasn't allowed to date. She had five Jamaican brothers. 19:06 There's a difference altogether. 19:07 Five brothers and five Jamaican brothers. 19:09 It's a different story. 19:11 And they protected her like a Fort Knox. 19:13 Oh, I bet. I don't blame them. 19:15 I don't blame them either because I look back 19:16 and I think, "Why are they tripping like that?" 19:18 But then now as I got older, I'd say, here I said, 19:21 "I would do the same thing." 19:22 I would really be the same. 19:24 But I just invite him over, the only way 19:26 he could come to my house is for worship 19:28 'cause I wasn't allowed to date. 19:30 My mom would always have Friday night worship and she says, 19:33 I said, "Mom, can I have a friend come over?' 19:35 And she says, "Who is it? 19:37 I said, "A guy." 19:39 And she says, "Okay, for worship only." 19:41 So he came over for worship. Yeah, that was smart. 19:43 Yeah. 19:44 So every Friday night my mom had family worship 19:47 and he would come over for worship. 19:49 Where were you spiritually at this time, John? 19:52 I was a mess. I was... 19:54 You, what, 16, 17, 18? 19:56 Sixteen when I first... 19:58 First met her. 19:59 He's probably about 17. 20:01 You started going to worship, you maybe 17, 20:02 where were you, spiritually? 20:03 I was worldly. 20:05 I was a partier, I was a gambler, 20:07 I was a pool hustler. 20:08 I was the guy that probably mothers in churches say, 20:12 "stay away from that young man. He is no good." 20:14 Now why were you going to church if you...? 20:16 Because, you know, I had the foundation. 20:19 There's a truth in the Bible 20:20 that I need to insert right here. 20:23 "Train up a child in a way he should go, 20:24 and when he is old, he will not depart from that?" 20:26 I want to add a caveat. 20:27 The lady raising me, she passed away when I was 13. 20:31 And, but the foundation she laid was so instilled in me 20:35 that even, I was on the basketball team 20:37 and the football team in high school. 20:39 Well, the football teams, they had their celebration, 20:42 were given out all the jackets 20:44 and the trophies on a Friday night. 20:45 She had already passed away. 20:47 There was no one to tell me not to go and I could not go. 20:50 I just couldn't go. 20:52 But the crazy thing about that is, I couldn't go to, 20:54 I would not go to the basketball game, 20:56 wouldn't go to the football dinner 20:58 but I'd go party instead. 21:00 So figure that out. 21:01 That's the confusion of worldliness. 21:03 So when we met, I was very much in the world. 21:06 Afraid of the Lord. Okay. 21:07 So what did you see in him? 21:08 Why weren't you looking for the clean cut guy with a, 21:12 you know, nice hair do and all that stuff, Angie? 21:14 What was you thinking? 21:16 Because, I had, in my mind, I knew who I wanted. 21:19 I had a guy in my mind who I wanted. 21:22 He fit the description. 21:23 He did. Okay. 21:24 So you knew beyond what you saw on the outside 21:28 that God had a plan for him. 21:30 Was that what you were thinking? 21:31 Yeah, well, yeah, actually it was. 21:34 I knew. 21:36 I'm like well, he would come to church sometimes 21:38 and I would see him and I'm like, 21:40 oh, he's nice looking. 21:41 He had the nice, I always wanted a guy 21:42 with the nice hair, nice curly hair. 21:45 And he had that real soft curls and I'm like, 21:47 and then tall so he fit every description in my mind. 21:51 That's why I wanted to meet him. 21:53 So he came over that Friday night for worship. 21:57 And all my brothers were watching him. 21:59 Except Cliff. 22:01 Cliff and I hit it off right away. 22:03 He tackled me right away and we were wrestling on the floor. 22:05 Yeah, the moment I met him. 22:07 All right, oh, yeah. 22:09 'Cause he was a joker. 22:10 Yeah, he was a joker. 22:12 So anyway, he came over and he was, you know, 22:17 he'd-- you'd be okay. 22:19 you'd be quiet. I was cool. 22:20 You were cool. 22:22 And I kept inviting him over, 22:23 inviting him over Friday nights. 22:25 One particular Friday night I said, my mother said, "John, 22:29 would you read the Scripture in the Bible?" 22:32 I can't remember what scripture it was. 22:34 Maybe Psalms 23, I don't know. This was him. 22:38 He opened the Bible, " The, the, Lo, Lord is, my, my, 22:42 shepherd, I, I... 22:45 and I'm like he can't read. 22:47 Beads of perspiration was pouring on the Bible. 22:49 I was nervous. 22:51 It's hard to get a devil to read a God's word. 22:52 Yeah. 22:54 I was just so, I was like, 22:55 "Don't have me reading the Bible." 22:56 I'm thinking about the party I got to go to later." 22:58 Have mercy. 23:00 What did your mom think of John as a date for you, 23:03 as a potential, as a suitor for you? 23:05 She liked him. 23:07 But she didn't see him as, me and him together 23:10 'cause I was too young. 23:11 I was 17 then. 23:13 We met at 16 but at 17, you know close to 18, okay. 23:17 Okay, 18 or 19, are you guys still together now, 23:20 you're old enough to start dating 23:22 and other than just worship. 23:24 Yeah. 23:25 Well, listen to what happened. 23:27 That Friday night... 23:29 Oh, yeah. Yeah, you forgot. 23:30 I kept inviting him over for worship, 23:33 and that one particular Friday night, 23:35 I said, "John, have you seen the book, 23:37 The Great Controversy? 23:39 He said, "Yeah, when mama was alive," 23:41 I said, "Let's read it." He said, "Okay." 23:44 So we went, where did we go? 23:46 You want to get a chapter that would take you from the world 23:49 to Jesus in a heartbeat. 23:51 The first chapter we read was The Time of Trouble. 23:56 That will take you, "World is coming to an end. 23:59 The rivers are rolling backwards, 24:01 the mountains are quaking, fire coming down of heaven, 24:04 people running for their lives." 24:05 I'm thinking, "I'm on the wrong team." 24:09 And literally I broke down and cried that night. 24:12 I remember how old I was. 24:13 I was 19 at the time 'cause I just started, 24:15 I was working 24:16 at Bank of America at Wall Street. 24:17 Okay. 24:19 And earlier that day, this is the context of it, 24:20 earlier that day, somebody at work 24:22 who used to go to the same church 24:23 I went to moved to Miami, Florida and started a disco. 24:26 Remember those words, "The discotheque?" 24:28 Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. 24:29 And they said, we're looking for a disc jockey 24:31 and I was a really good disc jockey at the time. 24:32 They said, we're looking for a disc jockey 24:34 to be the person to lead out in our club. 24:37 All you have to do is say, yes, 24:39 we start you off with $500 a week. 24:41 This is in 1979. 24:43 Wow. That's a lot of money. 24:44 Start you up with $500 a week, we'll give you a place to stay, 24:46 we'll pay for you to come on down here. 24:48 All you have to do is say yes. 24:49 So the devil made it so sweet. 24:51 But the Lord impressed me, I said, "You know, 24:53 let me think about it. 24:55 I'll give you my answer on Monday. 24:57 That Friday night was when we read The Great Controversy. 25:00 And then the next chapter we read was about 25:02 the Second Coming of Christ. 25:04 And that Friday night I put down 25:06 my pool stick and my boom box. 25:09 And I traded it with Bible and The Great Controversy. 25:11 And on Monday morning, I went work with the Bible 25:13 and The Great Controversy, 25:15 hardly had any instruction on how to give Bible studies 25:18 but I was looking for people to give Bible studies 25:20 with on Monday morning. 25:21 Okay. My first Bible study. 25:23 So you had a conversion experience that Friday night. 25:26 That's right. 25:27 I bawled my eyes out, I mean, I literally knelt on the floor. 25:30 He knelt and we prayed together. 25:31 It went back to your foundation 25:33 because the same thing I noticed 25:35 when he said that he wouldn't go to the basketball 25:38 that's because you knew your mom had totally 25:40 disapproved of it. 25:42 Right. And she wouldn't be happy. 25:43 The other world she may not known about or been there so 25:46 you've justified but you did not want to disappoint her 25:49 'cause she had laid such a good foundation. 25:52 And so now you're reading this, you know it's true, 25:55 you know that that's what you've been taught. 25:57 And it kind of brings you then to repentance. 26:01 It was amazing and so that really opened the door. 26:04 We need to just back up a moment. 26:05 Sure. 26:06 Before that 'cause you used to go to all these parties 26:09 and I used to go to your house. 26:11 I remember that. 26:12 I used to, he lived on the third floor 26:14 and I used to take these pebbles 26:15 and throw it in on the window trying to hit the window 26:18 to wake him up. 26:19 The Sabbath morning. 26:21 Sabbath morning, sorry, Sabbath morning. 26:22 Yeah, Sabbath morning. Yeah. 26:24 To getting him to come to church. 26:25 Getting him come to church. 'Cause he'd be out all night. 26:26 And I was like, "Who is that?" 26:28 His father let me in the house finally. 26:31 He let me in and I said, "Hey, John, come on, 26:33 now you're going to church." 26:35 He said, I just got home 26:36 from a party at 4 this morning." 26:37 I said, "I don't care. 26:39 You're going to church with me." 26:40 So I pulled out his clothes and started pressing him 26:45 and I said, "Go shower." 26:46 And he went, showered and he came in the room, 26:49 I left the room so he could change and next thing I said, 26:52 come on we're going to church. 26:54 We went to church. 26:55 He sat in church and he slept. 26:57 His head was breaking, just sleeping. 27:00 I slept on Pastor C.A.'s sermon. 27:01 Now he sleeps on mine. Yeah. 27:05 You know what's interesting to me 27:07 as I listen to you is to see how God 27:10 at every juncture intervened like when your parents left, 27:15 but He provided other parents, you know, 27:19 and then provided, gave you a love in Angie 27:24 that just undergirds all that you do. 27:29 And to me, it's just, it's so bespeaks 27:32 of a loving God with a plan. 27:35 That's right. A plan for your life. 27:38 So though you might have felt abandoned, 27:40 you weren't abandoned because at every juncture God 27:42 had something for you. 27:44 Matter of fact, that's why the book 27:46 is called Abandoned But Not Alone. 27:49 And as of this interview where we're updating it. 27:54 I'm revamping it to bring it up to some new details 27:57 I want to add and then republish it. 27:59 But in this there is quote I want to share toward 28:01 the ending of the program. 28:02 But you know, before we were girlfriend and boyfriend, 28:06 her brothers were my brothers. 28:08 Her mom became my mom. 28:10 At a point where I had no mother, 28:12 and papa who raised me, 28:15 his wife had died in 1971 she died, 28:21 and so he kind of gave up on life 28:23 and was recluse at times 28:26 and looking for love and he got remarried. 28:27 So it was quite different. 28:30 So I just had no anchor. 28:31 And she became my new anchor in my life 28:35 and had a relationship with the Lord 28:36 that she wouldn't let me compromise. 28:39 That's the thing that was wonderful. 28:40 I never forgot this and I tell this in-- 28:43 And this is a good message for the young people today. 28:45 You know, I still have it today. 28:48 It's a little cupid doll with a little red heart on it. 28:51 And she wrote in that, it had, 28:53 "I'll give you my heart 28:54 but you'll have to fight for the rest." 28:56 Okay. All right. 28:57 She said, I don't want anybody that's not in the church, 29:01 I don't want anybody that doesn't have the relationship 29:02 with the Lord. 29:04 And so at every inch of all, 29:05 like when I had a party one Friday night, 29:07 I was at the World Trade Center on 44th floor 29:09 disc jockeying and lo and behold, 29:11 through the dark room, 29:13 you know, I'm looking at the window, 29:14 they were all the way, through the dark room, this, 29:17 "Who is that?" "John." 29:18 "What? Who is that?" 29:20 "Hey, what are you doing here? How did you find out?" 29:23 I'm gonna look at the camera. 29:25 Guys, don't try to hide 29:28 'cause your girlfriend has connections to find out 29:31 where you are. 29:32 If you think she doesn't know, then you are fooling yourself. 29:36 So she shows up. She tracked you down, right. 29:38 She tracked me down. 29:39 I'm on the 44th floor on the World Trade Center. 29:40 "How did you find?" 29:42 She didn't even tell me, I never found out 29:43 how she found out but anyhow, 29:45 she said, "You know 29:46 it's Friday night is the Sabbath, 29:48 you should not be here. 29:50 This is wrong." Holy boldness. 29:51 That's all I could see. 29:53 I said, "Would you get out of here? 29:55 I'll be at church tomorrow. Just get out of here." 29:56 And I never forget. 29:57 I recall this, just one or two years ago I recall this, 30:00 one of my speakers started to smoke. 30:02 Okay. 30:04 And I thought, I looked back on that, Lord said, 30:06 "I could burn this thing down right now." 30:07 And He and His mercy and the very next day 30:11 I had to fulfill my end of the agreement. 30:13 I was at church. 30:15 And she would never let me not be at church. 30:18 And so... 30:20 But Angie, didn't you, I mean, growing up 30:22 everybody goes through spiritual struggles. 30:24 Was there a time in your life that you thought well, 30:26 maybe I don't want to be Adventist Christian. 30:29 Maybe I want to go out in the world 30:31 and try some of the things. 30:33 Was there ever a time in your life 30:34 that you wanted to go a different direction? 30:35 Yeah. 30:37 Actually, I used to go to the, I'm Jamaican, 30:41 the "reggae" parties. 30:42 We used to go with my cousins, yeah. 30:44 I did that. 30:45 And this is before John, 30:47 I used to do that and after that 30:49 I'm like there's nothing in this life. 30:51 Okay. 30:53 You know, I saw my friends and some of my cousins. 30:58 All they do is get drunk and I'm like, 31:01 I don't want this life. Okay. 31:03 And so, you always say, learn from other people's... 31:05 Learn from other people's mistake. 31:08 Don't repeat yourself. 31:10 And so I saw, what I said, I want the man that 31:14 would love the Lord more than me. 31:16 And if I could get John to do that, love the Lord, 31:19 then I got a good man. 31:21 Yeah. And that's what happened. 31:23 After a while he started taking over 31:25 our Friday night worship, after the conversion. 31:27 I started leading out. 31:29 He was leading out in the worships. 31:31 And then we got involved in prison ministry together 31:33 before we were married. 31:34 Her brother gave her a little car that only had a-- 31:37 it didn't have reverse. 31:39 Only went forward. It only went forward. 31:41 Okay. That's good. 31:42 Isn't that amazing providentially? 31:44 Only going forward. I love it, going forward. 31:45 Blessings on the go. Forward. 31:48 Amen. All right. 31:50 And we go to prison ministry, we go to Sabbath school, 31:52 then we go 'cause church is so huge, 31:54 we go to Sabbath school. 31:55 You just get, you know better, you just get lost in the crowd. 31:57 So we got involved in prison ministry 31:59 all throughout New York, Rikers Island, 32:00 we go to prison ministry together 32:02 before we were married. 32:03 And it was her car and every time I got to tell her, 32:05 "This car only had forward so when we visit friends 32:09 and they say, well, "Goodnight." 32:10 We used to go outside, smile, we're waiting for them 32:12 to close the doors so we can push the car backward. 32:14 We always try to park it so that we could just drive out. 32:19 But sometimes, somebody, "man, they blocked us in." 32:22 We were waiting for people to leave so we could, okay, 32:24 you go and drive, I'll push it back and you pull over, 32:26 push it back you go over. 32:27 It was a small little Toyota. 32:29 I'll sit in and he'd push it back. 32:30 And thank the Lord it was old Toyotas that were tiny. 32:31 Yeah. 32:33 And they also had a spring in the seat. 32:34 Oh, man, I had three suits that spring in the seat 32:37 went through the car seat 32:38 and it tore my pants three times. 32:40 I had three suits, but, but that car was just, 32:43 it was a testimony of our lives going forward. 32:45 And we even said this. 32:47 We would always use it for prison ministry 32:48 and one day we decided to use it 32:50 to go to great adventure in way up in New Jersey. 32:52 And we said... 32:53 Amusement park. 32:55 Amusement park and that's the day it broke down 32:56 on the George Washington bridge 32:58 at the toll booth. 33:01 Oh, that's awful. 33:02 So we said the Lord did not intend 33:03 for this to be a pleasure car, only for ministry. 33:05 Absolutely. 33:06 Tell us a little bit, you mentioned earlier 33:09 that C.A. Murray, was of course, 33:12 is with 3ABN for many years now C.A. was your pastor. 33:15 My youth pastor. Back then. 33:17 What impact did he have on you? 33:18 Now was he aware that you were out 33:21 doing the party deal and disc jockeying 33:23 all that kind of stuff? 33:25 I mean, did he come down on you like Angie did? 33:28 Did he follow you to the, where you were and get on you? 33:30 How did deal with you as your pastor? 33:33 Well, we had so many young people in our church. 33:36 I mean, we had like 500 young people in our church. 33:38 It was like churches in New York 33:40 were packed with young people. 33:41 Yeah. 33:43 There are so many activities but the caveat was, 33:44 if you don't come to church, you can't play basketball. 33:46 Oh. 33:47 You cannot play basketball. 33:49 You can't be on the basketball team. 33:50 So he had that head dangling over us. 33:51 If you don't come to church, you are not playing basketball. 33:53 But he was our pastor. 33:55 He'd preached to us and our youth church 33:57 while he was there, had grown so large 34:00 that the senior pastor of the church, 34:01 Lord rest him now, I won't mention his name, 34:04 the youth church had grown so large that it became a threat 34:07 to the adult church. 34:08 And he decided to shut down the youth church 34:10 so that we could have a bigger adult service. 34:12 Oh, my. But Pastor C.A. 34:14 was a young man, he played basketball with us. 34:17 That's back in the day when he had his afro. 34:20 Oh, yeah, he did. 34:21 Yeah, he was a wonderful youth pastor. 34:24 Yeah, but he passed the ball. 34:26 He says, right? 34:27 Oh, he had a good shot. 34:28 Yeah, but he would pass. 34:30 He accuses John and me of not passing. 34:32 I don't know where that come from. 34:34 You don't win by passing. 34:36 He said, yeah, whoever puts the ball 34:38 in the hoop the most wins. 34:39 That's what my dad used to tell me. 34:41 But anyway, C.A. will pass, he actually will pass. 34:44 We will once in a while, John and I, we used to do, 34:47 we do a lot of shooting. 34:48 Let's head to another part of my life 34:50 'cause now that we got 34:51 this spiritual thing going together, 34:53 and I wanted to just say for the caveat, we met at 16, 34:56 dated for, off and on, off and on for nine years. 34:59 We broke up, got back together, broke up, got back together. 35:00 Both selfish. We were both selfish. 35:03 So for the young people that are listening to this program, 35:05 you know, we were selfish. 35:07 But I think one of the reasons to the success of our marriage 35:10 is the Lord gave us time to get all those selfish ways out 35:12 and still, through the course of growing up 35:16 as husband and wife, 35:18 every now and then we have the residue. 35:21 But we got baptized, remember Pastor James LaMar? 35:24 Oh, sure. Yes. 35:26 Well, we got baptized together at 19. 35:27 At 19. 35:29 At an evangelistic series at good old 35:30 tent meeting in Brooklyn. 35:32 And I never forget what one of our brothers said, 35:34 you remember what they said about us 35:35 getting baptized together? 35:37 Are you gonna get married? 35:38 What, are they planning to get married together? 35:39 And at that point we really didn't planned on that. 35:41 We weren't thinking about it. 35:43 But it was both of us had the spiritual kind of 35:45 "let's commit ourselves together." 35:46 Right. That's so good. 35:48 And that was really, really good 35:49 and we never planned on getting married. 35:50 Now, Yvonne, you, where were you in all of this? 35:52 Were you in New York? 35:53 I was in New York and in fact... 35:54 If you went to church, would you have gone to that church? 35:56 I did go to that church for a while. 35:58 Did you guys know each other then? 36:00 Did you know him back then? 36:01 You know, not really. 36:02 He went to-- 36:04 my dad was the principal of Bethel School 36:05 when... 36:07 I have marks to prove it. 36:09 Your dad was his teacher? 36:11 He was his principal. Principal. 36:12 He was his principal. Oh, yeah. 36:14 Now he didn't whip you, did he back then? 36:16 Only once did Mr. Hodge do that. 36:18 What did he do it with? 36:20 We used to call it the wire. 36:23 He said, "Now Lomacang, we got to talk." 36:24 Any time when he said we have to talk, 36:27 we know we're in trouble. He was the principal. 36:31 He was the principal. 36:33 But he never whipped you, did he? 36:35 No. 'Cause she's a good girl. 36:38 And my sister was in John's class. 36:40 That's right, Gloria. So, my baby. 36:43 So she, she was in his class 36:45 and I was out of school by then. 36:49 I mean, I was... 36:50 Your little sister. 36:52 My little baby sister was in his class. 36:53 Binky. Binky. 36:54 But during these years what would that have been 36:56 when you are at 18, 19 years old, what years, 70s? 37:00 Seventy six, seventy seven, seventy eight around then. 37:02 Yeah, what were you doing in the 70s, 76, 77? 37:05 I had just started the music business. 37:07 So you weren't really going to church that much? 37:10 No. No. 37:11 No, I had left the church for about... 37:12 What's wrong with you all? 37:14 I know. 37:15 But you know in so doing, 37:18 and I don't recommend that anybody leave 37:20 and especially, oh, my goodness now 37:23 but I'm thankful 37:25 that the Lord brought me back. 37:27 Yeah. 37:29 So I'm not so happy that I left, 37:30 but I'm thankful that he brought me back 37:32 because while I was out there, 37:34 I appreciate so much more 37:37 the Lord and the whole Christian thing so much more. 37:42 One other things I've learned is that people say, well, 37:45 they went out and they did this, you did that, 37:48 she did this. 37:49 But those of us sitting in the church can be just as lost. 37:51 Absolutely. That's right. 37:53 'Cause we can be there every Sabbath and do take part 37:57 and do all the things that we think we're supposed to do 38:01 and still not have a relationship 38:03 with the Lord Jesus Christ. 38:04 We do it because we think we should and a lot of people 38:07 go to church, whether it's our church, Baptist Church, 38:09 'cause they don't want to be lost. 38:11 And so they say, well, I wanted to do, 38:13 "so the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak." 38:15 So no one can set any judgment of any one else. 38:19 But you guys were out there, you were there and you knew 38:21 when to come back and what you are coming back to. 38:24 That's right. Thankfully yes, yes. 38:26 Yeah. 38:27 With you two, what would you say, 38:31 'cause you've been married for all these years 38:33 and you're not just, you know, 38:34 you see people who are married and their, 38:38 it's kind of like the relationship 38:39 that you just were talking about with the Lord, Danny. 38:42 Okay. It's married in name only. 38:45 So yeah, this is my wife or this is my husband 38:48 but we don't do anything together. 38:50 You know, we just co-exist, we live in the same house 38:53 but you guys are a team. 38:56 What would you say, what are the secrets 39:00 to this kind of relationship, an optimal kind of marriage, 39:04 not just a marriage in name only? 39:06 Okay. 39:08 We have fun together, we pray together, 39:11 but we know how to have fun together. 39:13 We know how to laugh. Oh, good. 39:15 Every single day I get to laugh. 39:18 We know how to, you know 39:19 we don't just talk to each other. 39:21 We talk to each other. Yeah. 39:22 Okay. 39:24 Right? 39:25 Right, about everything. So great communication. 39:27 Communication is huge. Huge. 39:28 Open with each other. Open. 39:30 We go to the store together. 39:31 We share the same, you know, we go to shopping, 39:33 we share the same bank account. 39:34 We are everything as together. 39:36 That's right. Right. 39:37 It's like, it's not mine or hers. 39:39 Yeah. 39:40 How do you deal with conflict? 39:41 Who is the first one usually to apologize? 39:44 He is. He is. 39:47 I'm going to Matthew 5 that said, 39:49 "Blessed are the peacemakers." 39:51 Well, besides, he like to eat her cooking. 39:53 That's right. 39:54 That's probably has a little bit to do with it. 39:56 She could say, "John, I just 39:58 don't feel like cooking, today." 39:59 "I'm sorry, honey. I was wrong." 40:01 "I'm sorry." 40:03 Well, let me tell you this side of that. 40:04 I think that relationships without passion 40:05 is not really a relationship. 40:09 There are a lot of times people say, "Well, we never argue." 40:12 And my interpretation of that is one of you is brain dead. 40:17 Because you have to have differences of opinion 40:19 no matter how long you are together. 40:20 That's right. 40:21 Sometimes you know, we have this funny joke 40:23 we've been doing like last two years is that, 40:24 do you want-- I said, 40:26 "You're gonna pick the opposite, right? 40:27 And we joke about this. 40:28 And she said, "I see, you're thirsty?" 40:30 "No." You want to go on--?" 40:33 "No." 40:35 Then she says, "I want something to drink." 40:37 "But I asked you if you were thirsty?" 40:38 "But I'm thirsty now." 40:41 It is like, sure, that's fine. 40:43 Be on, let it be on your terms. 40:45 A lot of times people don't think 40:46 they had this individuality. 40:47 That's important. 40:49 So they lose themselves to please the other person. 40:51 Don't lose yourself. Exactly. 40:53 Because if I wanted to marry somebody exactly like me, 40:56 then one of us will be unnecessary. 40:58 That's good, that's good. 41:00 Now you don't want people to think exactly like you 41:03 at no point in your life 41:04 because you don't have a check in balance. 41:06 I sink, she doesn't. 41:08 You know sometimes she says, "Would you stop singing 41:10 and come and watch the show with me." 41:11 Hey, cool, you know. 41:14 And sure, you need that balance and so we have a lot of things 41:19 that, but I want to point, I want to go back a little bit 41:21 really quickly because as she talked about our conversion, 41:24 you know, after that point of that Friday night 41:28 awakening with God, I still partied. 41:32 And I still, it as a little bit of hesitation, "Okay, Lord, 41:35 I know I'm going to the wrong direction 41:37 but I hadn't given up the world yet." 41:39 I periodically partied or do house parties 41:41 or wedding parties or disc jockey in house clubs 41:44 and then along the way, 41:46 the Lord continued to battle with me and shortly, 41:48 little by little He would say to me, "No more." 41:52 And I'd say, "Okay, I got it." 41:53 And I remember going to a house party 41:55 on one Saturday night to somebody's place 41:58 who strangely enough and I say this in context, 42:01 partied together. 42:05 We had a whole lot of sinners in our church. 42:08 But praise God, we look back on them now 42:09 and they all come back to the Lord. 42:11 Amen. 42:12 You see, if young growing up, we can't argue with that. 42:14 A lot of people, they, they have to find their way. 42:16 Tell them what you used to do with the flyers. 42:18 And oh, this is terrible, God, thank the Lord for His mercy 42:21 because when I was a junior usher, 42:25 my time came to pass our bulletins, 42:27 I would put party flyers in the bulletins 42:31 for my friends so they'd know 42:32 where the party is after Sabbath. 42:34 Now if I was the Lord, I would have kill him 42:35 on aisle three or two. 42:37 But God was patient... 42:38 Have mercy. Yeah. 42:40 And... 42:41 Where the party was tonight and they would go to the party. 42:43 And they would go to the party, you know, celebrate, 42:45 you know, Kool and The Gang and all that stuff back then. 42:48 But our real turning point was when we had an accident 42:50 one Sunday, both in a car together. 42:52 It was when Hondas were small enough, were very, very small. 42:56 It was full of a sound equipment, 42:57 records and all. 42:58 And I said this statement which you got to be careful. 43:00 I said, "Okay, Lord, this is the last time." 43:02 They were hurt and he tried to kill us. 43:04 We had a terrible car accident with this Honda. 43:06 We both got injured 43:08 and I knew at that moment if we had died, 43:11 we both would have been lost. 43:13 At least that was my interpretation 43:14 and that was the last time. 43:16 I get rid of all my records, 43:17 covered everything that was disc jockey connected 43:19 and then our lives began to turn around. 43:21 She went to Oakwood. I waited till she came. 43:23 Even when she went to Oakwood, I waited. 43:25 I didn't date anybody. 43:27 We kept in communication back and forth. 43:30 We kept the communication back and forth. 43:32 And then we went to Oakwood together again in 1979. 43:38 We're kind of fast forwarding. 43:40 Yeah, go ahead. 43:41 And then in 1983, I got a, this is funny part, 1983, 43:45 after we dated for nine years, 43:47 her brother who is now deceased came to me in the kitchen 43:50 there in Monroe Street in Brooklyn 43:53 and he said, "How long are you gonna date my sister? 43:55 You're gonna marry her or what?" 43:57 And I thought, you know, he's kidding. 43:58 And he said, "How long are you gonna date my sister? 44:01 You're gonna marry her or what?" 44:02 He was serious. I was 25 years old. 44:04 And I'm 24 and I'm thinking, uh, 44:08 "Are you gonna marry her?" 44:09 "Yeah." 44:10 "When?" 44:12 "Next month." 44:13 We got married in 30 days. 44:15 Yes, we did. 44:16 He was like "You're gonna marry her 44:17 or you're gonna get." 44:19 And we got married in 30 days and the funny joke. 44:21 I'll tell this in concerts. 44:23 The joke is her brother proposed 44:24 and I accepted. 44:27 It's true. 44:29 Now let me give the folks at home 44:31 a little behind the scenes here. 44:33 The producer of this program today 44:35 is Pastor C.A. Murray that was his pastor. 44:39 Just few minutes ago 44:40 John said he used to take these flyers 44:43 and put in the church bulletins, right, 44:45 about parties. 44:46 On the teleprompter just came up, 44:47 it said, "Shame on you, Lomy." 44:53 C.A. is shaming you all these years. 44:55 That's something he just found out. 44:57 See I told you, you'd find out things today 44:59 we didn't already know about you. 45:01 That's pretty good. 45:03 Now we've only got about eight minutes left or so. 45:05 So what I want to do is we're gonna talk about 45:08 quickly about your ministry, about, we know you're pastor 45:12 and a lot of that but we want to find out about your music, 45:15 you have CDs, you've got the book 45:17 you've written and tell us 45:18 how you got into your music ministry. 45:21 In 1983, after leaving New York, 45:23 I got involved in the Christian talent search 45:25 and the Lord worked it out 45:26 that I came in among the top ten finalist. 45:28 While I was doing the concert one Saturday night 45:29 and her mom bought some tickets to a Heritage Singers' concert 45:33 in the Tupperware Auditorium in Kissimmee, Florida. 45:35 Her mother insisted, I said, "Mom, 45:39 I'm 75 miles away doing a concert." 45:41 She said, "You have to come, I bought tickets." 45:44 "Okay, we'll come after my concert." 45:46 So we got there at half time, just in time 45:49 for the announcement Max Mace, 45:51 director and founder of Heritage said, 45:52 "We're looking for a new tenor after the end of this season." 45:56 And so somebody turned to me as I was sitting in the audience, 45:59 he said, "John, you could do that." 46:01 So I felt, my voice is warmed up, 46:03 I auditioned and I remember the song, 46:05 Dying with a Broken Heart. 46:06 And I never knew what happened after that audition 46:08 but maybe about seven or eight months later, 46:10 we got a call to join the Heritage Singers. 46:12 Okay. 46:13 And Max Mace, I said, "But I'm married." 46:15 He said, "I wouldn't think of separating you two 46:16 and we both joined the Heritage Singers together. 46:18 We were married a year. We were married just a year. 46:20 In the first month, we went to 19 countries. 46:22 That's right. 46:24 So you were singing too, Ange? 46:25 Everyone ask that. Okay. 46:27 She was on the road 46:29 book keeper, did all the bank deposits, 46:30 all the record sales and you know, 46:32 they paid her the same thing that I got paid. 46:34 And it's beautiful. 46:36 And so we traveled the world together, 46:38 enjoyed that. 46:39 How many marriages would survive 46:41 if your wife is with you in your face everyday 46:44 for two years in a row? 46:45 Just a few feet apart. 46:47 Not a lot of relationships can endure that. 46:49 Yeah. 46:50 On the bus traveling, yeah. 46:52 You have to really like each other. 46:55 Not just love each other but like each other. 46:57 And we worked together twice too. 46:58 Oh, in New York we had two jobs together at the same company. 47:01 So going fast forward quickly, 47:03 in Heritage I met Doug Batchelor. 47:04 Oh, yeah. Pastor Doug Batchelor. 47:06 We became friends, after we left Heritage... 47:08 He was the pastor of the group, remember? 47:10 After we left Heritage, a year later 47:11 I got an invitation 47:13 from the Northern California Conference 47:14 to start evangelism with Pastor Doug Batchelor. 47:16 We moved from Florida and the details are in the book 47:19 as we, we release it. 47:20 And the Lord, our walk 47:22 from the last all of our marriage, 47:28 should I say them how long? 47:29 Sure. 47:31 Thirty two years. 47:32 Praise the Lord. Amen. 47:33 Our marriage has been a faith walk. 47:35 Oh, yeah. 47:36 To tell you the stories of the times 47:38 that we could have turned around 47:39 and God only showed us but what He wanted us to see, 47:42 to see if we trust Him to take up the rest of the way. 47:44 So and so from the Heritage Singers, 47:46 that's when the music ministry began, 47:49 but the first CD that I produced 47:51 was when I was with Doug Batchelor in 1999. 47:54 It's called Surrender. 47:55 That's a part of the first project. 47:56 We have Surrender, Never Alone, and The Call. 47:59 And those are three there. 48:01 They are actually, Surrender was the first, 48:03 Never Alone is the third in the picture. 48:05 That was the second one. 48:06 That's mostly my originals that go with the songs, 48:09 the chapters in the book. 48:10 And The Call was one I did when I was here at 3ABN. 48:14 And really, it talks about. 48:15 I came to the realization that there's a call on our lives 48:20 and so that's the name of that third CD and then, 48:24 so we've been here now, what year we got here? 48:27 Uh, 2003. 2003. 48:30 Wow. We've been here at 3ABN. 48:32 And we've grown up. 48:33 You know, I came here with black hair. 48:35 But let me just kind of left with white hair. 48:37 I was still coloring my hair back then. 48:39 It was a joke 'cause people, well, 48:42 this is a big controversy on the internet 48:43 and all around the world. 48:45 What would people say? 48:46 A man with the plastic hair. Plastic. 48:48 'Cause I've used black hair dye and shiny hair spray 48:51 and they said, "I think it's toupee, it's a hairpiece." 48:53 No this is real. 48:54 Everywhere we go, they always want to touch his hair. 48:56 So I've decided let it go grey 48:58 so we could get rid of that myth. 49:00 And-- but here we are ministering. 49:04 My wife also, when we came here, 49:07 the Lord called us to 3ABN, Danny, 49:09 and literally and I want to say this quickly. 49:11 When we left California, went to Iowa Missouri Conference, 49:15 after about nine months there, when we realized that 49:19 the vision that we had was not with the vision, 49:21 the vision that God had. 49:23 We sat down and I literally sat on the edge of my bed and said, 49:26 "Lord, what do you want us 49:27 to do with the rest of our lives?" 49:29 And two days later, Danny called me. 49:31 I didn't have that kind of relationship with him. 49:32 I didn't put out on the internet, 49:34 I didn't call anybody, I didn't make any phone calls 49:36 or letters, who needs help. 49:38 He called and said "We're building a new church 49:41 and your name came on our list. 49:43 Are you interested?" 49:44 And we've been friends. There you go. 49:47 I'm so grateful to Danny, 49:49 so grateful for allowing us to be a part of this ministry. 49:52 I'm thankful for you all. 49:53 You've been such a blessing, not only to the ministry, 49:56 but me personally for so many years. 49:59 And I just appreciate so much you guys' friendship 50:03 and as a pastoral team because you're actually a team. 50:07 She is a minister 50:09 as he is because she ministers to all of us 50:12 and what a great example of loving, caring people. 50:15 They have people at their house constantly. 50:17 I know 'cause we're some of those who go there. 50:20 We were there. 50:21 Most of the church, probably all the church 50:23 has been there sometime or other. 50:25 She kind of takes turns with all of us, 50:27 invites us over, a wonderful cook. 50:29 Everybody gets excited when we, you know, 50:30 we're going over there 'cause she can cook. 50:33 She is the vegetable scallop queen right there. 50:35 She knows how to do that so when I go over, 50:38 she'll usually make some of those for me. 50:41 But, John, tell us a little bit about the book. 50:43 It's about our life story together, 50:45 not just mine, but Angie's also 50:47 and because of the road together. 50:49 I want to just wind up with this statement 50:51 on the back of the book. 50:52 "When it was done, I didn't know how to end it." 50:53 But here is what I said, "My life is a miracle, 50:55 not because I've learned to adjust 50:57 but because I am a part of a divine plan. 50:59 I am moving upward and onward, 51:01 not because I've learned to scale the utmost heights 51:03 but because I know who's I am. 51:05 I choose not to fear life but to live it. 51:07 I look back not to lament but to remember. 51:09 I hold on not because I'm incapable, 51:11 but because I am wise. 51:13 I look at barriers as movable, problems as solvable, 51:15 heartache as healable, 51:16 and disappointment as temporary. 51:18 It is not confidence in myself that gives me hope, 51:20 it is Christ in me that is my hope. 51:23 The experiences I've had were not designed to break me 51:25 but to make me. 51:26 I am at peace because I know who I am. 51:28 If, in the midst of your circumstances you can see God, 51:31 you are on your way to wholeness. 51:33 If in the midst of your storms you can hear His voice, 51:34 you are on your way to peace. 51:37 To be abandoned is out of your control 51:39 but to think that you are alone is your choice." 51:43 That was great. That book is so good. 51:45 I read that book years ago and it's a page turner. 51:49 You don't want to put it down. 51:50 It's really a page turner. So it's really good. 51:52 Maybe folks at home, 51:54 they are used to send here at 3ABN 51:55 but do you have an address 51:57 if folks want to write because you've got CDs, 51:59 you got the books, 52:00 you've always got something new coming out, 52:03 maybe Bible studies, no telling what, 52:04 maybe new books in the works? 52:08 If you have an address... 52:10 3ABN carries. 52:11 You know 3ABN carries all of our CDs. 52:12 Sure. 52:14 So if you know the 3ABN address and phone number. 52:15 They can just get it through here. 52:17 Yes. 52:18 Get it through here. Okay. 52:19 PO Box 220, West Frankfort, Illinois, 62896. 52:21 There it is on the screen. 52:23 3ABN, PO Box 220, West Frankfort, Illinois, 62896. 52:29 And I would encourage you to get the book and read it. 52:31 I read it sometime ago but your music John 52:34 is such a blessing and God has gifted you. 52:36 Praise God. 52:38 You have a incredible voice because not everybody, 52:43 in fact, very few people who preach 52:46 as well as you do can keep you on the edge 52:48 of your seat preaching, 52:49 can keep you on the edge of your seat singing 52:52 and John really is one of the most talented preachers, 52:56 teachers, musician, singer and to get all 53:01 that in one package and to get him here, 53:03 somebody who loves the Lord, somebody who stays straight, 53:07 straight as the needle as they say to the pole, 53:09 straight there at the plumb line 53:11 and your theology has been such a blessing to 3ABN. 53:14 So I praise the Lord that you guys have chosen to be here 53:18 all of these years 53:19 and so literally not just brothers 53:22 in the church but brothers together. 53:25 And I appreciate brothers and sisters and I feel like 53:28 we're all family here. 53:29 So thank you for what you do for the cause of God. 53:32 We're gonna take a short break, we're gonna go to newsbreak. 53:35 We'll be back for closing thought. |
Revised 2021-09-18