Participants:
Series Code: TDY
Program Code: TDY190047A
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00:01 I want to spend my life
00:07 Mending broken people 00:12 I want to spend my life 00:18 Removing pain 00:23 Lord, let my words 00:30 Heal a heart that hurts 00:34 I want to spend my life 00:40 Mending broken people 00:45 I want to spend my life 00:51 Mending broken people 01:09 Hello, I am Shelley Quinn. I am JD Quinn. 01:11 And we are so glad that you're joining us today. 01:14 We have a very inspiring personal testimony 01:19 that we are going to hear, 01:21 but we want to take this opportunity 01:23 to give you heartfelt thanks for your prayers and your love 01:27 and your financial support of 3ABN, 01:29 the mending broken people network, 01:32 and this testimony that we're going to hear today 01:35 is astounding. 01:38 Our special guest is a survivor of the Rwanda Genocide 01:44 and as we had just a few minutes 01:46 to speak with him before we came on the air, 01:50 I realized that his story is really about prayer, 01:54 about bold prayer, challenging God in prayer. 01:59 And it's an amazing story that will give you faith 02:03 and encouragement. 02:05 To increase your prayer life 02:07 and to know that God is always there 02:10 as he was talking, 02:11 the verse that came to my mind was Isaiah 65:24. 02:16 And I love this promise, 02:18 God says, 02:19 "It shall come to pass that before they call, 02:22 I will answer. 02:23 And while they are still speaking, 02:26 I will hear, 02:29 and this gentleman is a pastor, he's a PhD, 02:33 but he was preaching from the grave in Rwanda. 02:36 And let me introduce our special guest, 02:39 and let's see if I can say this, 02:41 Doctor Phodidas Ndamyumugabe, did I do that right? 02:46 Correct. Oh, boy, praise the Lord. 02:48 You had to be very smart to learn how to spell. 02:51 It's the whole language. 02:53 It's a sentence actually. 02:54 It means I worship the Lord. 02:57 Praise God. 02:58 I will worship the Lord. Yeah. 02:59 Now that's a... The last name. 03:01 That's a beautiful last name, I will worship the Lord. 03:04 We're going to come back for your personal testimony 03:08 in just a second. 03:09 But I know that currently 03:11 you are a professor of religion at Weimar Institute. 03:16 Right. One year? 03:18 Yes. 03:19 And you're here now in the United States 03:21 with your wife and your three sons. 03:24 But the beginning of his journey here, 03:29 the beginning before he would became educated 03:31 as a pastor was quite rocky, 03:34 and this is something we want to encourage you to stay tuned. 03:38 But before we go there, 03:40 we have a beautiful piano solo and, honey, who is our pianist? 03:44 Kendol Bacchus 03:46 and he's going to be playing "Give Thanks." 07:20 It certainly is easy to think "Give Thanks." 07:24 That was such beautiful soothing. 07:25 Thank you much, Kendol. 07:27 Amen and we do give thanks with a grateful heart. 07:29 If you're joining us just a moment late, 07:31 our special guest today is Dr. Phodidas Ndamyumugabe. 07:38 Correct. Okay. 07:39 I'm so good at this, I will praise the Lord. 07:43 And what we want to do is 07:47 you brought some pictures with us, or with you 07:50 that we'd like to show 07:51 right at the beginning of the program, 07:53 because it is, 07:54 it was so amazing for me to see how beautiful Rwanda is. 07:59 And to think of the atrocities, the evil, the hatred, the pride 08:05 that rose up in this nation. 08:07 So here you have Rwanda 08:11 and we can see where it is in Africa. 08:14 Right in the heart of Africa, actually, 08:18 that is the map of Rwanda. 08:20 It's a very small country. 08:22 But it is a beautiful country. 08:24 As people can see probably in the next picture, 08:29 I was born and grew up in that area, 08:33 there is a beautiful lake. It's called Lake Kivu. 08:37 It's one of the most beautiful lakes in the world. 08:40 And the next picture shows probably more mountains 08:44 and unfortunately, 08:46 even though I was born there, and my parents were there, 08:50 that is not a place I go today, 08:53 as somebody who goes home, 08:55 because my entire family died, was killed in those mountains. 09:00 And when you say the entire family, 09:02 you're talking about your parents, 09:05 your siblings at all except one, right? 09:08 One sister survived 09:09 but all of your nieces and nephews... 09:12 Nephews, they were like 34 of them actually, 09:17 who were killed within. 09:19 But they are not the only ones 09:20 because more than a million people were killed 09:24 within only three months. 09:27 In three months. 09:28 Now you have a picture of some hills here 09:30 that we wanted to look at 09:31 because you said this is where... 09:33 Yeah, that's, Rwanda is called the country over 1000 hills. 09:38 That's beautiful. 09:39 And so everywhere you go are mountains and hills, 09:42 but my story takes place in such a hills 09:45 actually not so tall, just, 09:48 and I was, you know, 09:50 I spent like more than 30 days running up and down 09:55 and until I reached a point where I had to dig a grave 10:00 and I had my grave. 10:03 They were forcing you into it at gunpoint. 10:06 Okay, so let's kind of rewind for just a second 10:08 and put this into perspective for our audience. 10:13 This was infighting or civil war 10:18 between the Tutsis and the Hutus 10:20 which are two different tribes. 10:22 Kind of tell us, 10:24 well, even let's go back before that. 10:26 Did you grow up in a Christian home? 10:29 Yeah, I was born and grew up in a Christian home 10:31 in an Adventist family 10:33 and my, especially my sister, 10:36 actually, one of my sisters was such a wonderful Adventist, 10:40 and it's not just enough to be born 10:42 in an Adventist family, 10:44 but she taught me about God in the Bible 10:48 and she actually gave me a book, 10:51 you know, she was giving gifts to people 10:54 and surprising them. 10:57 And then I was waiting for my gift. 10:59 And then she came up with a book, a Bible. 11:03 And she gave me a Bible and that wasn't a new Bible. 11:06 Actually, I wasn't very excited about it as a young boy, 11:10 but she gave me her old Bible 11:12 which was highlighted, underlined. 11:14 How precious. 11:16 And that was going to work out miracles in my life and maybe, 11:21 if anyone is listening to us and watching us today, 11:25 I just want, actually, that's what I'm talking about. 11:27 I'm talking about the power of the Word of God. 11:29 Amen. 11:31 How it helps you to go through terrible crisis, 11:34 and helps you to remain faithful unto God 11:37 and to see God. 11:39 So, Pastor, 11:41 at what point did you actually give your heart to the Lord? 11:46 How old were you? 11:47 Oh, I was like, 11:50 maybe eight years old. 11:53 Really? Okay. Yeah. 11:55 I was, I grew up in a rural area, 11:57 you saw the mountains, and we had cows, animals, 12:01 and I was keeping the animals of the family 12:04 and now interestingly, when you are keeping animals, 12:08 you have time, right? 12:09 Yes. 12:11 And so when they're feeding, I was reading my Bible. 12:14 Praise the Lord. 12:16 And I was focusing on the highlighted verses 12:18 and these verses were going to, 12:20 you know, just prove to me that there is a God in heaven 12:24 and He's the God who never changes. 12:27 So you have this love for the Lord, 12:29 you become an elder 12:31 at the local Seventh-day Adventist Church, 12:34 but now introduce 12:37 how did this civil war, 12:40 this genocide happen 12:42 where the Hutus were massacring the Tutsis. 12:47 What's the difference between those two tribes? 12:50 Thank you so much. 12:51 It's actually not so easy 12:54 to describe the difference between Tutsis and Hutus 12:57 because in some cases there are no differences. 13:02 When there is hatred, 13:04 you will always see differences, 13:07 but Tutsis and Hutus, they share the same language, 13:11 they have the same culture, they intermarried, 13:15 they were basically the same. 13:17 But then there was a time for political reasons, 13:21 politicians tried to highlight the differences. 13:25 They say Tutsis are foreigners, 13:27 they came from other countries and they invaded the country 13:31 and they became the leaders 13:33 and so they mobilized Hutus to kill Tutsis. 13:39 So this is kind of a class war, isn't it? 13:41 Because the Tutsis were a little more of the... 13:44 I don't want to say aristocracy, 13:46 but they were a little more a richer group, perhaps. 13:51 Yeah basically, but not all Tutsis were rich, 13:55 but of course, the king came from the tribe of Tutsis 14:00 and when the European missionaries came to Rwanda, 14:06 they found... 14:07 Now, usually when you are wealthy, 14:09 when you have, you drink milk, 14:12 well, you tend to be taught, right, 14:15 and so because there were animal 14:17 keeping and cattle, 14:20 so they were taller, 14:21 and missionaries and the colonial power 14:25 didn't see the similarities to say no, 14:28 these are different, they don't look alike 14:31 and they distributed ID cards. 14:33 They said, you are a Tutsi, you get an ID card 14:36 that shows who you are, 14:38 and you are a Hutu, you get an ID card. 14:40 And in some instances, actually, 14:42 they could be some Hutus who were given Tutsis ID cards 14:46 and there were Tutsis 14:48 who probably were given other ID cards. 14:51 But those ID cards are going to be terrible 14:55 to indicate the identification of people 14:57 who were supposed to be killed. 14:59 So this is kind of a manmade separation, 15:02 if you will... 15:03 Very correct. 15:04 As they share the culture, they often look alike... 15:06 Intermarried and. 15:08 And, now so, in your church, 15:11 then where there both Tutsis and Hutus? 15:15 Very well, there was no difference. 15:17 We're just friends, we're neighbors, 15:20 we socially integrated 15:23 until those politicians tried to highlight 15:28 the differences and inciting one group to kill the other, 15:31 telling them that these are your enemies, 15:33 you kill them. 15:35 Okay, so in 1994, 15:37 what was, over a million people were slaughtered? 15:40 More than a million people actually. 15:42 Because even today, you know, 15:43 those are people who identified 15:46 but there are families which were totally, 15:50 the whole family was killed, and no one to report, 15:52 no one to tell the story. 15:54 And so, only the families, 15:56 the people who were identified actually, 15:58 like a million, two hundred thousand 16:01 but even today there are still discovering hundreds, 16:05 I mean, tens of thousands in pits, in holes 16:11 and some were thrown into big rivers 16:13 and taken away and so, no trace, 16:16 and no one will report and say my family was killed 16:19 or my children 16:20 and, you know, 16:22 it's such a terrible thing that happened in that country. 16:25 So, Phodidas, tell us where you were when this began 16:28 and just share your story? 16:30 Thank you so much. 16:32 Well, as I said, I wasn't actually in a place 16:35 where I was born. 16:37 I happen to be in Kigali when the genocide started. 16:41 Kigali is the capital city of Rwanda, 16:45 and I was the church elder in one of the biggest churches 16:48 in Rwanda in Kigali 16:50 which is called Remera SDA Church. 16:53 And as an elder, 16:55 I enjoyed the fellowship of church members 16:58 and God prepared me somehow. 17:01 With the Bible I had read, 17:03 I actually, you know, 17:06 somehow grew up that way and I started helping people. 17:10 I was, you know, helping young people, 17:14 teaching, and towards 1994, 17:17 there was a serious, you know, upheaval. 17:22 Politicians were saying you kill Tutsis 17:25 and people were scared everywhere. 17:27 And we had just to pray, spend the whole day 17:30 fasting and praying. 17:32 Now as an elder, I was invited by young people, 17:35 I remember Tuesday, 17:36 I actually spend the whole day praying 17:37 with a group of young people who were scared 17:40 and we all committed ourselves into God's hands and say, 17:44 even if we die, 17:46 let's glorify God 17:48 and let's put our lives into God. 17:49 You wore your ID card, while you were a Tutsi? 17:52 I had an ID card and on Wednesday, 17:55 I did the same, 17:57 there was a group of business people 17:58 who had gathered and they invited me 18:02 to encourage them and to pray and we fasted the whole day 18:05 without actually knowing that, that very evening, 18:09 something terrible is going to happen. 18:11 Then the president of the country 18:13 who was a Hutu was killed and when he died, 18:17 we don't, 18:19 I personally don't know what happened. 18:22 Some say it is the Hutus who killed him 18:25 so that because he was trying to share power with the Tutsis. 18:29 Some will say no, the Tutsi army, 18:32 the people were coming from outside 18:34 who killed him and that is not my business. 18:37 But the reality is he was killed 18:40 and the Hutus as a result, 18:43 they decided to kill all Tutsis, 18:45 they said we will kill Tutsis and have, 18:49 because we don't want them to live. 18:52 Now that evening, actually what happened? 18:56 After my prayer, I went back home. 18:59 I was scared. 19:00 We decided to pray, my friends and I, 19:02 we were staying in a small house. 19:05 It housed three boys. 19:07 We were actually three 19:10 and the house helper 19:12 and so we prayed the whole night 19:13 and we tried to prove to people 19:15 that we were also sympathizing but that was not going to work. 19:20 And you were 24 years old, I wanted to establish. 19:22 Yes, I was 24 years old, 19:24 and we prayed and prayed and prayed 19:27 and, now one, how it happened one Sabbath. 19:31 Now it was Wednesday. 19:33 Now Saturday, 19:35 I was supposed to go to church. 19:37 I used to teach the doctrines 19:39 of the Seventh-day Adventist Church every Sabbath morning 19:42 as it happens in Africa. 19:44 At this time, it was not going to be possible. 19:46 So I said, I think I've got to invite neighbors 19:50 so that I can encourage them and pray for them. 19:53 Now what I did, I send my house helper 19:55 to invite people 19:57 and they came and I started teaching. 20:00 Now when you said they came, 20:02 were they both Tutsis and Hutus? 20:04 Both Tutsis and Hutus. Okay. 20:06 And when they came, 20:08 even the young people were staying with me, 20:11 two of them were Hutus and one was a Tutsi. 20:14 And so I was reading, I remember, 20:16 I decided to read the book, The Great Controversy, 20:19 the Chapter entitled "The Time of Trouble." 20:23 And I was trying to tell them that look, 20:25 even in such times of trouble, 20:27 God still cares for His people 20:30 just like Ellen G. White tells us. 20:32 And right as I was trying to explain 20:36 and read and commanding, 20:38 my house had a window. 20:41 Now the door had actually a glass 20:45 and so I could see through the glass. 20:47 And I saw a group of killers, armed with their machetes, 20:51 and the knives, and swords, 20:53 and guns, and they forced us to open the door, 20:56 immediately they came in and they said, 20:59 "All your ID's up." 21:01 Now everybody was supposed to show their ID. 21:03 If you are Tutsi, they will kill you. 21:05 If you are Hutu, then you're safe. 21:07 And so everybody who was Hutu 21:09 and, of course, there were some Tutsis 21:11 who had hidden their IDs. 21:13 Others had torn them and they tried to lie. 21:17 But I had told God, I was not going to lie. 21:22 I was, remember I had read my Bible. 21:24 And I said, you know, Revelation Chapter 22. 21:28 It talks about those who will survive, right? 21:32 The last tribulation are those who have not lied, 21:37 who have said no lie. 21:38 The Book of Psalms 15, it talks about the same thing. 21:42 So I said, there is no, I'm not going to lie. 21:45 I showed my ID and when they saw the ID, 21:48 the chief militia, the killer, he said, "Get ready to kill." 21:52 And everybody came in surrounded me 21:55 with their knifes. 21:56 And now, I took my Bible, 22:00 lifted it up, and pointed it to the killer, 22:02 I said, "In that ID it is written Tutsi 22:06 but in my heart, I'm a citizen of heaven." 22:10 And he was disturbed. 22:13 He took the Bible, he threw it down. 22:15 He trampled on it and I felt but, 22:19 because as a young person, 22:20 I thought God was going to protect my life. 22:23 He was going to fight for me and here, 22:26 His own Bible is being trampled on. 22:29 I said, no God, 22:31 are you doing something about the situation. 22:34 And now, interestingly, 22:37 God had done something already. 22:39 He doesn't fight the way we want Him to fight. 22:43 He's always in control even when you think you... 22:47 so strong, he is trampling the Bible, 22:49 he has his knife on me, but he cannot kill me. 22:53 He's just looking at me. 22:54 And everybody has come in their knives up there 22:57 and I kept praying, said, Lord, 22:59 are You doing nothing about this situation? 23:02 And I'm right just sitting and no one dares to stab me. 23:07 They kept shouting. 23:09 And then he said, all of the sudden 23:10 after a few minutes, 23:12 he said, "Where is your room? 23:13 Take us to your bedroom." 23:14 And they took me to the bedroom. 23:16 Obviously, they wanted to loot, take what belonged to me. 23:19 And I was praying inside the room. 23:22 Now actually, I know I don't have enough time. 23:25 Maybe somebody may be interested in the whole story. 23:28 He can read, there is a book 23:30 that is coming out with Pacific Press, 23:33 Preaching from the Grave. 23:34 But I want to assure everyone that God is amazing. 23:40 Amen. 23:41 Sometimes we undermine the power of prayer, 23:44 but we've got to trust in Him. 23:47 And there is a God who answers prayer. 23:50 So even in the room, 23:51 I kept praying and they took everything I had 23:54 and they brought me back. 23:55 Now, these are guys who have killed the people. 23:58 They have slaughtered hundreds. These machetes are hot. 24:01 They have been moving around, they are full of blood, 24:03 they, I am just the next to be killed and they kept. 24:07 They brought me out and I was just right there 24:11 and then he kept shouting, 24:12 their knives are branded and then he says no, 24:14 we're not going to kill you, 24:16 we will call the policeman to come and kill you. 24:20 As if I was stronger than them. 24:22 And they said give us your keys and they locked us inside, 24:25 they left. 24:27 Then, of course, in a few minutes time, 24:30 they gave the keys to somebody and he came and opened 24:34 and I thought when they send the keys back, 24:36 I thought I'm safe 24:39 and I was trying to go out 24:42 to see if there was another way out 24:44 and then I saw the chief killer coming back. 24:48 Now I was going to jump the fence. 24:51 You see there is a fence surrounding my house, 24:53 the compound, but there was no way. 24:56 I tried to jump just to find out 24:59 that the house had been surrounded by the killers. 25:02 And so they are saying, "You lie down, 25:05 we're gonna kill you, we're gonna cut." 25:06 And I lied down waiting for the chief killer to come 25:10 and when he came, he took his sword 25:12 and he lofted on my throat. 25:14 He said, I'm gonna cut your throat 25:18 and right as the blade touched my throat, 25:22 I lifted up the Bible again and I pointed I said, 25:25 "Don't kill, don't shed innocent blood." 25:29 The man was troubled. 25:31 He couldn't, he said, 25:32 "Hey, are you bragging of praying?" 25:34 I said, "No." 25:35 But he kept shouting 25:37 and everybody's just looking at me. 25:38 They don't, they have come back to kill me. 25:40 But no one kills me again 25:42 and then he finally after few minutes shouting 25:45 and looking at me saying why? 25:47 And he said, "Why are you running? 25:48 You go back to your house." 25:49 I said, "I will not run again." 25:52 I went to my house. 25:53 Interestingly, 25:55 the guy was after what he was coming back to my house, 25:58 I had locked myself inside 26:00 and he was coming back and back and back 26:02 and saying, Murukude. 26:04 Now, Murukude means the Holy One. 26:06 He thought I was a special person, 26:08 say the Holy One. 26:10 The Holy One, are you inside? 26:11 I said yes. 26:13 Keep praying and I kept praying. 26:15 This is what the chief killer said? 26:18 The chief killer, he moved by to kill others, 26:20 he said, "Murukude, are you inside?" 26:22 I said, "Yes." 26:24 He said, "Keep praying." I kept praying. 26:27 And which means God had done something to him. 26:32 But that was just the beginning 26:33 because actually the real story starts right there. 26:38 It was going to be terrible. 26:40 But God is so great. 26:41 And God was going to show me 26:43 that He is a God who answers prayers. 26:45 Amen. 26:46 Because in a short while, one of my friends, 26:49 my church members, 26:50 as I say that was a church elder. 26:53 He came to me and he said, "Why don't we run? 26:55 Let's try to go to another province." 26:58 And I told him, I said, his name was Vincent, 27:00 I said, "Vincent, how can I go? 27:03 I have this Tutsi ID." 27:06 And he said, "Why do you have it? 27:07 Why don't you tear it and throw it away?" 27:10 I said, "I'm not going to tear it 27:13 because if I do, 27:15 I will be tempted to lie and I don't want to lie." 27:21 And I said, "My life is in God's hands. 27:25 If He wants to protect my life, He will certainly do that." 27:29 And he says, "If you have that faith, 27:30 let's go. 27:32 Keep your ID and let's go." 27:34 And so, we prayed and then we had to move. 27:37 Now Vincent was somehow smart. 27:39 He realized that I was probably stupid. 27:42 And so he got my ID 27:45 when we reached the highway and we saw so many killings. 27:49 So many dead people. 27:52 And he came back, he was scared. 27:53 He said, "Where is your ID?" 27:55 He got it and he put my ID just back to back to his ID. 28:01 And so, when we reach the first roadblock 28:04 where people are being slaughtered, 28:08 they asked him his ID, 28:09 he showed and then he continued 28:11 and when I arrived, they said, "Where's your ID? 28:13 I didn't know, I said, "That man has it." 28:17 He came back to show and he showed the same ID, 28:20 the one he had showed before, his ID 28:23 and they said move forward. 28:25 But that was actually going to be just for a while. 28:29 He had tried to protect my life. 28:31 But God was going to show me that 28:33 even when they see the ID, 28:36 I can still protect your life. Amen. 28:38 Anyway, one of us was a Tutsi 28:41 and he was held there to be killed 28:44 and so Vincent who was a Hutu, 28:47 he was such a kind person, he said, 28:49 "I'm not going to leave him, you guys, you go." 28:51 Now I was going to go without Vincent, 28:53 but with Jesus. 28:55 Amen. 28:56 And so I decided, 28:57 because I was not going to keep standing there 29:00 out of fear that they were going to identify me, 29:03 come back to me and kill me. 29:05 And continuing was another issue. 29:07 But I decided to pray and moved forward. 29:10 Now ahead of me, there were roadblocks, 29:12 so I designed the prayer. 29:14 I said, I said the prayer 29:16 every time I came across the roadblock, 29:17 I said, in the name of Jesus close their eyes 29:23 and God closed their eyes. 29:25 Amen, hallelujah. 29:26 So the first roadblock, I said, "In the name of Jesus, 29:28 close his eyes." 29:30 And the guys were just busy checking IDs with 29:33 and killing and I moved forward 29:35 and then I came across another guy saying, 29:37 "In the name of Jesus close his eyes." 29:39 And I moved forward three times, 29:42 closed their eyes but the fourth time, 29:44 it looks like God said, 29:46 "No, until when are you gonna say this prayer, 29:49 I've got to prove to you that 29:51 even when their eyes are not closed, 29:54 I can still protect your life." 29:56 So I said in the name of Jesus, when this boy asked for ID, 30:00 I said, "In the name of Jesus close his eyes." 30:03 And his eyes were not closed. 30:07 He read, he said, "Are you Tutsi?" 30:10 Now, instead of killing me, he was astonished. 30:13 He said, "Are you Tutsi?" 30:15 He was amazed that I could still have my ID 30:18 and so I said, "Yes." 30:21 He said, "Disappear from here." 30:24 Now he became kind 30:27 and I know we don't have time, 30:30 I probably have to rush into this story. 30:32 But it was a miracle because in fact, 30:36 he didn't allow me to continue. 30:37 He called me back, 30:39 he said, "I'm going to look for, 30:41 give you a ride." 30:43 And there are people who are passing by 30:45 and they have cars 30:46 and they're going to drive you to where you're going." 30:48 But I didn't want to come back, 30:50 because that's the place were killers, 30:52 they are killing people. 30:53 And he said you wait there. 30:55 And guess what? 30:57 There was a truck full of militiamen, killers. 31:01 And so this is the truck where he wants me to get a ride 31:04 and say you get a ride. 31:05 Oh, my goodness. 31:06 And I had to go into that truck full of militiamen 31:11 who were full of blood, had killed so many 31:14 moving from house to house. 31:15 Did they know you were a Tutsi? 31:17 They obviously sensed, they thought I was. 31:20 Okay. 31:21 But no one checked my ID. 31:23 But anyway, God made it possible for me 31:26 to cross the number of roadblocks. 31:29 But I reached a point when I reached around about 31:33 which was one of the most terrible places. 31:38 And for the sake of time, 31:40 I can probably share with you that story 31:42 in another one, maybe just that round about, 31:48 Vincent in fact caught us up with us, 31:51 with the other friend. 31:53 He managed to save him 31:57 and when he came, 31:59 we did know whether to move forward 32:01 or to go back 32:03 and it was a terrible situation. 32:05 And we decided to pray and move forward. 32:07 And I was going to be saying the same prayer, 32:10 but that was not going to work. 32:12 So when we reached the roadblock, 32:14 the roundabout in Kigali center, 32:17 I said the prayer, I said, "Lord, 32:20 close their eyes in Jesus' name." 32:22 And guess what? 32:24 Their eyes could not be closed, the very first militiaman, 32:27 God, not only God did not close their eyes 32:30 but also he did not, 32:33 they didn't even become kind to me 32:35 because the person who got my ID, 32:37 he shouted, he said, "We found a Tutsi, 32:39 we found a Tutsi." 32:40 And everybody came running to me. 32:42 They said, "They were going to kill me." 32:44 And they said, "You see that Tutsi over there, 32:49 that was a Tutsi freshly killed. 32:52 You go and lie beside him 32:54 and we are coming to kill you." 32:56 And so I went 32:57 and I stood beside the dead person 33:01 and I took time to pray. 33:03 Now somehow I was forgotten for a few minutes 33:07 because they were busy killing others, 33:08 and stopping and checking IDs. 33:11 And I prayed and prayed, I said, "Lord, 33:14 show me that You are the God I've talked about. 33:18 I've taught young people, I've told adults, 33:23 I've read your word, 33:24 Are you still the same or You have changed? 33:26 Show me You are a God who doesn't change. 33:28 And guess what? 33:30 Somehow, all of the sudden, 33:31 one of the killers realized that I was still there. 33:34 And then he turned and he said," 33:36 Hey, we haven't killed that boy yet." 33:40 And then he came running, 33:41 he said, "Let me go and finish him," 33:42 and he came running to me. 33:44 And as soon as I saw him coming, 33:46 I closed my eyes and said Lord, in Jesus' name stop him. 33:51 Immediately, as soon as I see to that prayer, 33:55 I opened my eyes just to see the guy 33:58 taking the opposite direction 34:01 and then I continued praying, 34:04 somehow was forgotten again a second time. 34:07 I said the same prayer, saying, "Lord." 34:09 He said, "You know what? 34:11 We haven't killed that boy yet. He's still there." 34:12 I said, "In the name of Jesus stop him," 34:15 as I saw him coming running. 34:17 And immediately, 34:19 he was taking the opposite direction 34:21 three times. 34:22 Wow. 34:23 Now the fourth time was different. 34:26 I just have got to redeem time. 34:29 But the fourth time the guy came 34:32 and as he came to kill me. 34:34 I was praying, I said, "Stop him in Jesus' name." 34:37 And as I kept praying now I opened my eyes. 34:40 The last time I opened my eyes, 34:41 the guy was right in front of me. 34:45 But instead of stabbing me, 34:47 just as they were doing for everyone else, 34:50 he was just looking into my face. 34:53 And then as I looked into his eyes he said, 34:55 "By the way, 34:57 what kind of person are you?" 35:00 I don't know what he had seen in me. 35:03 But maybe he saw a different face. 35:08 God had just worked out a miracle 35:10 and I see the man of God. 35:12 I don't know how that answer came to me 35:14 because in such a moment you don't even reason, right? 35:17 I said... 35:18 Yeah, and you had not been educated as a pastor 35:21 and got your PhD? 35:22 No, I was just, no... 35:24 You were, okay. Just, yeah. 35:26 Then I said, "I'm a man of God." 35:27 And then he said, "Are you a man of God?" 35:30 But whatever answer I gave him 35:31 He probably heard something different. 35:34 Are you a man of God? 35:35 I said, "Yes." 35:37 But they were killing even men of God, 35:38 I mean, everyone, even pastors were being killed, 35:41 the priest and you know every, 35:44 people with Bibles and all of them were being killed 35:47 and he said, "Let me go and negotiate your ID 35:49 so that you can go." 35:51 Anyway, let me just, 35:53 anyway, the story is quite long. 35:54 I want to hear how you ended up in a grave? 35:56 The story intro yeah, yeah. 35:58 Well, finally I was saved by miracle. 36:02 From that very place to the point 36:05 that militiamen wanted to see what happened. 36:09 They didn't understand 36:10 and then my friend had disappeared, 36:12 my friends have disappeared. 36:14 So I went down the road 36:15 and I found them there and they knew I was dead. 36:18 No one could dare come back to see 36:20 what was happening because 36:21 you are attracting the attention of the killers. 36:24 You are sympathizing with the Tutsis. 36:26 They can kill you. 36:27 So when they saw me, he was like, 36:30 "What, are you still alive?" 36:31 I said, "Yes." 36:33 And I was holding my ID and Vincent saw me again 36:35 with my ID and said, 36:36 "You still have that ID, why don't you tear it?" 36:39 I said, "Vincent, if I'm alive, 36:41 it is not because I tore my ID, 36:44 it is because God protected my life. 36:46 And so I don't have to lie. 36:48 God willing, I will be alive. 36:51 And if He wants me to die, I will die faithfully." 36:54 And so he says, "If you have that faith, 36:56 let's go." 36:58 And we prayed again, and we moved on. 37:00 Now, it was a terrible journey, 37:01 because so many people were being killed right there. 37:05 So many, I've got to... 37:07 It's interesting, I can't just, 37:10 maybe I should go to, 37:11 anyway, that story is when I reached the point, 37:14 there was the roadblock, people were being killed. 37:17 There was a guy half naked. 37:19 He was like, 37:21 you know, with a hammer, 37:23 part of the hammer was max sharp 37:27 and the road had been blocked. 37:29 And they were stopping everyone directing to the killer 37:33 sitting and I saw so many dead people around him 37:37 and prisoners had been released 37:39 to load the tracks 37:42 and so, when I saw that. 37:45 Now, one of the militiamen grabbed me by the collar, 37:47 of the collar of the shirt, 37:49 and he led me towards the killer. 37:52 And I was like, three, four meters away 37:56 and there were three people around, 37:58 three people before me 37:59 when I saw him without mercy. 38:02 I said a prayer, I said, 38:04 "Lord, in the name of Jesus, 38:07 if that man gets angry, get angry on my behalf." 38:11 This time I changed the prayer and guess what? 38:16 Right after that prayer, 38:19 I felt another hand pulling me back. 38:24 And now there's a hand pulling me towards the killer 38:27 and there is another hand back 38:28 and then I turned and the guy said, 38:30 "Where are you going?" 38:31 I said, "I'm going to show the ID to that killer." 38:34 And he said, "Don't go." 38:36 Now the one to the front said, 38:37 "No, Let him go and show the ID" 38:39 in other words. 38:40 Meanwhile others are passing by and they are being killed. 38:43 And now there is a discussion between these two boys. 38:46 One is saying you go, 38:47 the other one is saying you go back 38:48 the other one is you go. 38:50 And finally the one behind says, 38:52 "No, there is a car behind here 38:54 which is gonna give him a ride to another province. 38:57 Let him go back 38:58 and he will still come back this way anyway." 39:01 Finally he convinced the killer 39:03 that I was supposed to go back 39:05 and maybe I should just, yeah. 39:09 What I want to do because this story. 39:13 We're touching the tip of the iceberg here. 39:17 It is such a fascinating story. 39:19 But your new book 39:22 that is being released in the summer of 2019, 39:29 "Preaching from the Grave." 39:32 This is available, 39:35 Pacific Press is publishing this and this book, 39:37 it will be available in the ABC's? 39:40 Within a few weeks, probably two more, 39:42 should be out actually. 39:44 Let's say August of 2019. Yeah. 39:47 And eventually 39:48 I'm sure it'll be available on Amazon as well. 39:50 But tell us where this title comes from? 39:54 Because you were forced to dig your own grave, 39:56 were you not? 39:58 Correct, correct. 39:59 Well, I finally managed to cross the city 40:03 and went to one rural area. 40:07 Now one of my friends was living not far, 40:10 his home was not as very far from Kigali. 40:14 So he took me to his home village. 40:17 But unfortunately, we didn't know 40:19 killings were going to start soon there as well. 40:22 And when killings started, so I try to hide. 40:26 And the father of my friend 40:29 tried to hide me everywhere he could. 40:32 He did his best. 40:34 And finally he got tired. 40:36 He said, "Son, I could hide you. 40:38 I could dig a hole and hide you in there. 40:40 But killers, they are digging people out, 40:43 I could put you into the ceiling. 40:46 But if I put you there, 40:47 the militiaman they will just find you." 40:49 And so he said, "Son, there is no way out." 40:52 And he designed the way by the way. 40:54 He said, "Well, son, 40:55 I think the best way for you to go to a public area 41:01 where so many Tutsis had gone and you will be killed by gun. 41:07 They will shoot at you 41:08 because he was scared to say no, 41:10 these villagers they will cut you with machetes, 41:12 and I don't want you to suffer that way. 41:14 You go, that was the best way for him. 41:17 He said, "You better go where Tutsis are, 41:19 they gonna shoot at you." 41:20 You can die quickly. 41:22 Anyway, to make the long story short, I had to go. 41:25 But finally I didn't go. 41:27 There is a whole series of miracles again, right there. 41:30 And then I came back again. 41:32 And the old man saw me back 41:33 and he said, "Son, are you back?" 41:36 They we troubled because coming back was like, 41:39 I'm causing trouble to them. 41:41 Because militiamen, 41:42 if they saw me going to their home, 41:43 then they would have sensed that 41:45 they are friends to Tutsis. 41:47 They are trying to hide them 41:48 and they were going to kill them as well. 41:50 So he very late in the night, 41:55 he said, "I know one bush I can take you to 41:57 and probably you can be saved. 42:00 Your God can protect your life." 42:02 And he took me to that bush 42:03 unfortunately, that was the only bush 42:06 that militia killers knew. 42:08 And so he took me to a bush 42:10 where actually militiamen were checking every hour. 42:15 But he prayed for me and we prayed. 42:18 And I was in a bush. 42:20 Now the morning came. 42:23 And around 11 am, 42:26 I had the friend, there was a little boy, 42:28 a boy with me 42:29 and in that bush when I was praying, 42:33 I said, "Lord, put Your angels around this bush." 42:36 Now it was around 11 am when I heard dogs barking. 42:41 They were hunting dogs, trained dogs. 42:45 And the dog found me when I was hiding, 42:48 and I saw the dog, 42:49 and I tried to scare the dog 42:51 so that he'd ran away but he didn't. 42:52 He was barking, seriously barking, 42:54 and then militiamen came following the dog, 42:56 they said, "Yes, we found one, 42:58 you come out of the bush." 42:59 And I had to go out of the bush and 'cause no time anyway, 43:04 they took me they said, "No, you look strong, 43:06 we have been so tired. 43:09 We're not going to keep killing people up 43:12 and then dig their grave. 43:14 We are going to let you dig your grave 43:17 and then we kill you later." 43:20 So they gave me a hoe 43:21 and I started digging. 43:24 Now, I had the Bible. 43:26 I think I shared with you 43:29 how my sister had given me a Bible. 43:30 Yes. 43:32 It wasn't necessarily the right Bible. 43:33 But from that time on, I had always underlined, 43:37 highlighted my Bible, right? 43:39 And so when my Bible was highlighted, 43:43 and I, 43:45 now one of the killers as they discovered me, 43:49 he actually got my Bible. 43:51 So they were sitting around the hole 43:53 as the grave as I was digging. 43:55 But I started praying. 43:57 I said, "Lord, 43:58 I preached about Daniel in the lions' den. 44:03 I preached about Shadrach, 44:05 how you took them out of fire? 44:08 Did I lie to people? 44:10 If I told them the truth, then show me 44:12 that you are a God that will never changes. 44:14 Amen. 44:16 And I said, "Are you still the same God? 44:18 Show me that you are a God. 44:20 You have not changed." 44:22 But I was praying and I was digging. 44:25 And the grave was about to finish. 44:26 And at the time I stopped and say, Lord, 44:28 what are You doing about this? 44:30 And I started giving suggestions to God. 44:32 And I told God, I said, "Lord, 44:34 maybe You can give me wings, 44:37 and I will fly 44:39 and they would just not find me." 44:41 And I waited for wings, there were no wings. 44:45 So I kept praying, I said, 44:47 "Lord, what are You doing about? 44:49 The grave is ending and they're going to kill me. 44:52 You bring about fire." 44:54 I remembered the story of Elijah 44:56 and I said, "Maybe God can bring about fire 44:58 and all of us are gonna be scattered and run," 45:01 and there was no fire. 45:04 Now, one thing I didn't remember is that, 45:07 actually, 45:08 there are not two stories in the Bible of the fire. 45:13 Right? 45:15 It's only one of Elijah 45:16 and so God doesn't have to repeat the same thing 45:19 for someone, right? 45:21 The Red Sea didn't happen twice. 45:23 And God, He never runs out of solutions. 45:27 And so as I was digging, 45:29 then I said You bring thunder 45:31 and all of us are gonna be scattered, 45:34 but God had actually designed the way out, amen. 45:38 And so because one of the killers 45:40 holding my Bible, 45:41 now he's reading. 45:43 He opens the Bible 45:45 and he reads the highlighted verses 45:47 and then he say, he pauses, he say, 45:48 "Hey, wait a minute," 45:50 right in the grave he said, 45:51 "Why are these colors in this book?" 45:54 And I said, "These are my favorite verses." 45:58 And then he says, 46:00 "Oh, these are your verses? 46:02 You mean, you've read this?" 46:04 I said, "Yes." 46:06 And he keeps opening 46:07 and he reads every colorful verse, 46:10 and he reads, 46:11 and somehow the Holy Spirit is working 46:14 and, you know, and as he reads, 46:17 he's touched, and then finally he says, 46:19 "Hey, you mean you have read all these?" 46:21 I said, "Yes" 46:22 And finally, at last, he says, "I beg your pardon? 46:27 Before you die, can you give me this book?" 46:29 And I said, "Go ahead and get it." 46:31 because I reason that... 46:33 there was no way I was going to claim it back anyway, 46:35 if I happen to fly or so there was no way. 46:39 So you go ahead and get it. 46:40 But as the killer said, no, he cannot get it. 46:44 That is not his book. 46:45 He doesn't even belong to himself. 46:48 And he said, if you need it, you pay us money. 46:50 He said, "Don't worry, 46:52 no matter how much money you want, 46:54 I will get this book." 46:56 So he was with me now, 46:58 the story is long 46:59 'cause I know we don't have time. 47:03 But let me tell you, 47:04 something happened that changed everything. 47:09 Finally, God brought about in us. 47:11 One of the killers came by and said, 47:13 "Hey, listen, 47:14 why are we burying these people into our field? 47:17 This is our property and we don't know him, 47:19 why are we burying him in there?" 47:22 And then everybody was looking at him 47:24 and he said, "No." 47:26 There was another person 47:27 who had been killed and they were saying 47:28 that we bury three of us into the same grave 47:31 and so he said, 47:33 "Let's use this grave to bury that person we killed before 47:37 and these boys, they would go 47:38 and dig another grave near the highway." 47:41 Now my grave was taken. 47:44 But that was God's answer, amen. 47:46 Amen. 47:47 He brings about His solution in a way that 47:49 you and I can never think of, amen. 47:52 And so just imagine and right, the grave is finished. 47:57 By the way, the guy offered to help us. 48:00 The guy who had my Bible, he said, 48:02 "Please allow me to help him." 48:03 He didn't want me to suffer. 48:05 He was right now with me, right? 48:07 And so he jumped into the grave and he started digging. 48:11 And then I said, "No, please." 48:13 I said, "Lord, what are You doing? 48:15 This man is so strong, he is finishing the grave 48:17 and they will kill me, You're doing nothing." 48:20 But God had done something already. 48:22 And so finally when the grave finished, 48:26 somebody came just ironically, 48:29 he said, "Why don't we pray for the people we are killing?" 48:33 Wow. 48:34 Oh, 48:35 obviously I sense that these are Roman Catholics 48:38 and because they anyway, 48:40 maybe some of the participants as well, 48:42 they pray for the dead. 48:44 And so I said, 48:45 oh maybe they don't know the biblical truth. 48:48 Ecclesiastes says, no, dead no nothing, right? 48:54 They have no hatred and no love. 48:56 And then one of them said 48:58 "No, Mary, mother of Jesus receive ye. 49:01 Mary mother of..." 49:02 And everyone was saying the same story 49:04 and my heart changed. 49:06 I said, Lord, I felt very bad. 49:08 I said, Lord, 49:10 "I'm going to defend Your honor 49:12 and I'm going to tell these people 49:13 who you are." 49:15 And I said, "Don't allow me to fly 49:17 until I've told them who You are 49:20 because they are insulting You. 49:21 They are killing people and they are praying for them." 49:25 And right after they buried the person, 49:29 we went to the highway, 49:30 there was a very beautiful place. 49:32 So we had to 49:33 where I was supposed to dig another grave 49:35 and I approached the man who had my Bible, 49:37 he said, "Can you give me that book 49:39 so that I can share? 49:41 I can say something before I dig another grave?" 49:44 Because that was a beautiful place 49:45 that so people could sit and listen, 49:48 and now interestingly he didn't allow that. 49:51 I mean, he allowed he said, 49:52 "Yes, go ahead." 49:54 He was with me, go ahead and say something. 49:55 But there was another militia right close to him. 49:58 And he said, "No, 50:01 he will say nothing to us." 50:03 We are going to kill him. 50:05 He's our enemy. 50:06 And guess what? 50:08 The other guy said, "No, he can say something." 50:12 Now the other one say, "No, nothing, 50:13 we don't want to listen, he has nothing to do." 50:16 Now, everybody who will listen to the shout argument lined up, 50:22 one on the side of those who wanted me to say something, 50:25 and the others on the side of those 50:27 who didn't want me to say a thing. 50:29 And interestingly, now they were so many, 50:32 they were like 40 of them 50:35 and so finally, they were about to fight. 50:39 All of them are armed. 50:40 And one of them stood up and said, wait a minute, 50:43 why are you going to kill each other 50:45 because of this stranger? 50:46 We don't know him. 50:48 Why are you fighting over a stranger? 50:50 Let me suggest something. 50:52 Those of you who want to listen, 50:54 you sit down and listen. 50:57 And those of you who don't want to listen, 50:59 you sit down and shut your ears. 51:02 And then let him speak and then we'll kill him. 51:05 Now it was like a fair, right, suggestion. 51:08 Everybody sat down, 51:10 but no one actually closed the ears. 51:12 Oh, my goodness. 51:13 Everybody was sitting down and I took my Bible 51:15 and I read 1 Peter 2:9, 51:21 which actually talks about you are a holy people, 51:24 as people belonging to God, 51:26 we, I was saying no, 51:28 I started thanking God, 51:30 thanking them for what they did 51:32 and I assured them I told them, 51:33 no, I'm not begging for you to let me go 51:36 because I know even if you kill me, 51:38 I know there is a day that I'm going to rise. 51:42 Amen. Amen. 51:44 And I was telling them but you are killing people. 51:48 You better let them pray for themselves 51:51 before you kill them. 51:52 Amen. 51:54 And I told them, 51:55 there are people whom you are killing, 51:57 they are not Tutsis or Hutus in the way you think of them, 52:01 they are the children of God as the verse says 52:04 and you are just doing the work of the devil. 52:08 Don't you think 52:09 you are actually doing the work of God. 52:13 We just got converted. 52:16 Non conversion as such but God worked out a miracle 52:18 as soon as I finished. 52:20 They shouted and said, "Let him go, 52:21 we cannot kill such a person. 52:23 Let him go." 52:24 And it is, you know, your story, 52:27 God worked miracle after miracle 52:30 and you'll want to get the book, 52:31 it's called Preaching from the Grave. 52:34 It will be released August 2019. 52:37 Preaching from the Grave because as I said, 52:40 we've only touched on this, 52:42 but we also wanted to put up your email address 52:46 because perhaps you want to get in touch 52:49 with Phodidas. 52:51 So that is phodidas@weimar.edu. 52:56 They can also call at Weimar, 52:58 they can look at Weimar website. 53:00 Okay, on Weimar website, 53:01 but let me spell that phodidas@weimar.edu. 53:12 That's how you can get in touch with him. 53:14 We've got to go to a news break. 53:16 We'll be back in just a second. |
Revised 2019-10-16