Participants:
Series Code: TDY
Program Code: TDY190053A
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00:01 I want to spend my life
00:07 Mending broken people 00:12 I want to spend my life 00:18 Removing pain 00:23 Lord, let my words 00:30 Heal a heart that hurts 00:34 I want to spend my life 00:40 Mending broken people 00:45 I want to spend my life 00:51 Mending broken people 01:10 - Hello, friends! Welcome to 3ABN Today. My name 01:12 is John Lomacang, and to my immediate left is 01:15 my copilot, my lovely wife! How you doing, 01:19 hon? - Oh, I'm doing great. So glad to be 01:21 here, and we're so blessed to be above the ground. 01:24 Any day is a good day when you're above the 01:25 ground. - I second that. I second that very much. 01:29 And whenever I have my wife with my on the program... 01:34 We like to bounce back and forth, and this is one of 01:36 those programs where we're going to be bouncing thoughts 01:38 back and forth because we have some very interesting, 01:41 I would say, cutting-edge guests when it comes to 01:45 the sanctuary. Today, our topic, I could say, will be 01:49 thriving in the wilderness. A lot of people talk about 01:53 freedom in Jesus. They say, "I've been set free"; 01:56 but we'll talk about the story of- many Bible topics 01:59 about freedom. But between where the Lord set them 02:04 free and where they're headed is the wilderness. 02:07 How do we thrive spiritually in the wilderness? And our 02:12 guests will talk about today that particular topic. But 02:14 I want to thank you for your prayers and your 02:17 financial support of this network. Isn't it amazing, 02:19 honey? - Yeah. We are so blessed... - How many years 02:22 now? - What, being here? What, 16? - Wow. We've 02:25 been here 16 years, and we have seen one miracle 02:27 after the other. - Amen. I'm so privileged and honored 02:30 to be a part of this ministry. - That's right. 02:33 So whatever you do to keep us going and growing 02:35 until the Lord comes, we do appreciate it very 02:38 much. But before we go on and introduce our guest, 02:42 honey, we have some music. - Yes! We always love to have 02:45 Jaime Jorge. And he's gonna play his violin, 02:48 and the song is called, "Face to Face." 05:46 - Thank you, Jaime, for that wonderful, wonderful 05:48 rendition of "Face to Face." - Yeah. That's a special 05:51 song in my family. I know we've had people 05:55 sing that at many of the funerals, but the message 05:58 is just beautiful. Face to face with Christ my 06:01 Savior. - And that's what we're longing for. But 06:03 before we go any further, I think it'd be nice at this 06:05 point to introduce our guests who have come 06:08 today to talk about thriving in the wilderness. You might 06:11 say, "Well, what does that mean?" Stay tuned and you 06:14 will find out how we can all thrive as we follow 06:17 Christ. First of all, I'd like to welcome Pastor 06:21 Alex Niculaescu. Am I saying that correctly? 06:24 - That is correct. - Man, I really worked hard 06:26 on that! [laughter] I hit a home run on that. 06:28 Well, good to have you here! - Oh, absolutely. It's 06:29 good to be here, thank you. - Yes! Give us kind 06:31 of an overview of where you pastor, a little bit 06:34 about yourself... - Sure! I pastor in Michigan Conference, 06:36 and I'm married and have a little baby girl who's the love 06:41 of my life. They're both the love of my life, but... 06:44 - What's her name? - Her name's Alice. - Alice... 06:46 - Hm! - Yeah. She's the cutest little thing, and 06:48 taught me a lot-taught me a lot about just the 06:52 way that God the Father looks at us. And so, just 06:54 being a father, I'm sure... it's a learning experience 06:57 being a parent. - Mm. - Yeah. We're still 07:00 working on developing our ministry which works 07:04 with the idea of the issue of slavery and how 07:08 to war against it-spiritual level as well a practical 07:11 le- well, they're all practical, but a physical 07:13 level, so... - Okay. And to your right is Alex 07:17 Longoria. - Levi. - Levi! I gave you a new name. 07:21 - Yeah, you did. - I looked right at it. [laughter] I gave 07:24 you his first name and your own last name. 07:26 [laughter] Levi, good to have you here. - Thank 07:27 you. It's a privilege. - Yes. And tell our viewers 07:29 and listeners a little about yourself. - Yeah. 07:31 As far as my regular sort of day-to-day life, 07:35 I live up in Michigan, as well, and I work in 07:39 physical therapy. I do home care, so I go and 07:44 help people in their houses to sort of get back on their 07:46 feet, so to speak, and I'm also keeping busy with 07:51 doing the ministry with Alex and trying to move 07:55 that forward, as well, as God directs us. - Hm! 07:59 - How did you both meet? - Actually, we met in 2007 08:02 at Arise. We both attended arise when it was here in- 08:05 well, in Michigan before it moved on, so... - Okay! 08:10 So you kind of grew spiritually together in 08:12 Arise. - Yeah, but we actually didn't know each 08:15 other very well even though we were acquaintances. 08:17 We didn't connect again until six years afterwards. 08:21 So in 2013, I actually asked him to come to 08:24 Brazil while I was doing a project there, and it 08:27 was kind of random how I came across his name, 08:29 but I was like, "Oh, I haven't talked to him in 08:30 six years. Let me go ahead and ask him." 08:31 He came, and since then we've been working on 08:33 the ministry together. And so, it's been... 08:36 Yeah. It was a divine appointment, so. - Have 08:37 you given a title to your ministry, or...? - Yeah, 08:39 it's Crying at the Gates. - Crying at the Gates. 08:43 - Based off of Proverbs chapter 1. - Okay. What 08:45 made you choose that title? - Well... - 'Cause 08:48 somebody's gonna ask. - Sure, absolutely. So in 08:50 Proverbs chapter 1, like the very first advice that 08:54 Solomon gives or receives is that he should depart- 08:59 right, he's giving wisdom to his son-that he should 09:00 depart from joining hands with those that exploit 09:03 others for profit. - Hm. - And then the very next 09:06 thing is that wisdom is going throughout the 09:08 city, and all the chief places crying aloud, 09:10 "How long?" - Hm. - "How long will this continue?" 09:14 And so we felt that what we're basically doing is 09:17 we're going through the chief places, we're going 09:19 through the cities... Our ministry started off by 09:21 actually walking through cities and praying and 09:23 calling out to God on behalf of those that 09:25 have no voice, so the idea of crying at the 09:28 gates was basically us going through the cities 09:30 and crying out on behalf of wisdom, "How long will 09:32 this continue?" Let the exploitation, let the 09:36 oppression, cease. - That's interesting. You know, 09:40 "Crying at the Gates." Talk about that, walking 09:42 through the cities. Name some of those places. I mean, 09:45 that's interesting, because you think about that: 09:48 People have heard of prayer. Would you call it a prayer 09:51 walk, or...what would you call it? - Sure, and some 09:54 people will describe it as that. I think it's that, 09:57 but it's a little bit more than that, as well, and 09:59 I think it starts with the idea that before Abraham 10:03 received the land-he never received it, actually- 10:06 but before the children of Israel received it, 10:09 he was promised it, and God said, "Walk the length 10:12 and the breadth of it." And then Joshua, before 10:14 he was going to go into the Promised Land, he 10:17 basically was walking around. Like, they walked 10:20 around the very first city that they conquered, and 10:22 he said, "Wheresoever you set the sole of your foot, 10:24 that have I given you." So there's definitely something 10:25 to territory in being physically present, and 10:28 we discovered that in a very practical sense multiple 10:30 times that there's physical territories that belong to 10:33 the devil. - Hm. - You want to be present because God 10:37 is a god of free choice; and if there's nobody 10:39 representing Him-right?-then there's no way that those 10:43 people can actually have access to that. So we went 10:45 physically into places, we prayed for places... 10:47 So, that was kind of our ministry. We walked 10:52 completely around the cities, and then we walked 10:54 through all of the areas, including the most dangerous 10:56 areas so that we could be present in those areas and 11:00 lift them up-be ambassadors, be present, allow God to open 11:04 up doors for divine appointments but also that we can cover 11:07 it in prayer, so... - And also, like on a very practical 11:12 level, a reason to go somewhere to pray, like 11:16 specifically for that place, is so that you 11:18 know what's there-so that you know what to pray for. 11:20 We didn't know before we went to Brazil, we 11:23 didn't know about the hotels with the heart 11:26 symbol on the sign and the things that would go 11:29 on in there unless we were like standing there in front 11:32 of it and we could pray for it specifically, or we didn't 11:35 know about all the people that we met, for example, 11:37 like on the streets and the places that we saw, 11:40 the neighborhoods that we went through, etc. 11:42 So, there's sort of like the spiritual application of 11:46 how God wants a representative in a place like for legal 11:51 purposes in the spiritual aspect to invite Him 11:55 somewhere, but there's also the other side of 11:57 practically...I didn't know what to pray for 12:00 before we went there. I didn't even- it was 12:02 very vague otherwise. So, there's kind of the 12:06 two purposes. - That's pretty interesting. - Yeah. 12:10 Were there lives that were changed? - Oh, 12:12 absolutely. Absolutely. Tons of lives were changed, 12:15 and we were able to interact with people that all told 12:19 us that no one from our side, so to speak, had 12:22 ever or would ever talk to them. Our first experience 12:26 was actually with a high priest of Candomblé, which 12:29 is a black magic, kind of voodoo religion. 12:31 - Was that in Brazil? - That was in Brazil. 12:33 And so, we walked at the very first slum of Favela 12:35 that we were in. We were told that we were going to 12:37 go talk to the big boss, and we thought, "Maybe 12:39 that's a drug trafficker," or something like that, 12:41 but it ended up being the high priest. And so, he 12:44 basically said that, "Hey, nobody ever comes, and 12:48 we know about spiritual warfare; we know the 12:49 darkness. We know that it's real, but we don't know 12:51 what the other side is like because there's 12:53 never been a representative. And if we had another choice, 12:55 maybe we'd choose it. So, thank you for coming 12:57 here. You have free access." And that was basically the 13:01 experience that we had multiple times. We met 13:04 witches, we met high priests, we met traffickers 13:07 of all sorts-drug traffickers, human traffickers, arms dealers- 13:10 all those kinds of things, and they weren't even 13:12 afraid to admit those things to us. There were 13:13 people who tried to rob us, and we ended up having 13:15 lunch with them, praying with them, things like 13:17 that. - Wow. - It's amazing how prayer can disarm 13:20 people quite literally. Like, there were times 13:24 where our lives were in danger, and yet we never 13:26 felt fear, we never felt that we were risking 13:29 anything; we always felt protected. - That's right. 13:32 - It's as if this wall was there. - Wow. 13:35 - That could not have been otherwise. But also, the 13:37 wall that existed beforehand between us and those people 13:40 was broken down. So, there's a wall of protection 13:43 that comes up and a wall of separation that goes 13:45 down. - Oh, I like that. I like that. One separates; 13:49 one unites." - Exactly. - That's interesting, 13:52 because when you think about the walls, we live 13:55 in a society of walls. People could be sitting 13:57 next to you on the train in major cities, they could 14:00 be sitting next to you on the plane... We travel 14:02 quite a bit, and there are people on the plane 14:03 that are sitting next to us. We make it a habit 14:05 to introduce ourselves, and in many cases we 14:08 plant a track or we get a phone number or we... 14:13 - Bible study. - That's right. In many cases, 14:15 a Bible study. But the wall comes down, because 14:18 you're walking into this cavern of the unknown, 14:23 and people tend to live their lives in that, "I 14:26 have my box around me; my wall is around me." 14:28 That's pretty interesting. When did the idea come 14:31 to you to do that? - Well, I'll be honest with you- 14:33 it wasn't original. I think what I had wanted to do 14:37 initially is the way that most men do things is 14:39 with their hands, and so I figured, hey, we're going 14:41 to go do a camp for kids that are going to be at 14:44 risk for trafficking. That didn't work out, and so 14:47 I kind of, out of a month of trying to connect with 14:50 different organizations and get this camp organized, 14:52 it kind of flopped on its face, and I just decided, 14:56 "Well, okay, I'm just going to take a walk." 14:57 So I took a walk, and I saw somebody on the corner 14:59 of the street. I was like, "Man, I don't speak Portuguese. 15:01 I can't say anything to them." So I just prayed 15:03 for them, and then I saw another person 15:05 and another person and started just randomly 15:07 praying for people, and then started noticing 15:09 places that I was walking through. Like, old, boarded-up 15:12 windows, this, that, and the other, and so I just 15:14 started paying attention to my surroundings and 15:16 praying for those areas. And before I knew it, five 15:17 hours had passed, and a lightbulb, like... "Okay, 15:20 Lord, I get what You're trying to get me to do. 15:22 You're wanting me to cease my dependence upon man and 15:26 what we can do, and You're trying to tell me that You 15:28 want me to join hands with You and approach 15:31 it at a very different manner"-a very spiritual 15:34 approach. It opened up our eyes to a number of 15:37 things, so... Yeah. - And there's always the two 15:41 sides, again. You have, always, the spiritual 15:46 "work," if you want to say that-the spiritual 15:49 part that we're supposed to do-and you always have, 15:52 also, the physical thing- the sort of hands-on 15:56 aspect, which is what, initially, Alex was trying, 16:00 when he went to Brazil, to do the hands-on part 16:03 first. That always comes as a result, but really, 16:06 we should put the spiritual first and let the other be 16:09 a result of it. And when you think about that whole 16:13 situation, just the way that it worked, is that 16:18 God basically shut all the other doors before 16:21 He opened the one that He wanted us to end up 16:24 going through. - Okay. - And sometimes, it's 16:26 like that. There might be even people that are watching 16:29 right now that are going through stuff like that 16:32 where they just feel like everything is like, shutting 16:34 down, God's not blessing them, so to speak, in the 16:37 ways that they would think... but it's sort of a thing we 16:42 have to learn that those are sometimes the way 16:44 that God funnels us, so to speak, like to what He 16:47 actually wants us to end up doing. - His ways are 16:49 not our ways. [Yeah.] - His thoughts are not 16:51 ours. - I'm actually glad that I went through all 16:53 of those months of kind of like, being shut down 16:55 and dead ends and frustration, because I would've not had 17:00 my eyes opened to all of those experiences had I 17:04 gone my way; I would've stuck in one city and done 17:07 one thing. I mean, God took me to a number of 17:09 cities. I got to meet thousands of people, 17:11 wrote lots of names... It was something that 17:14 just kind of- it opened up our worldview into 17:18 just something we had never seen before. So, 17:22 yeah. It's still happening; it's still happening, so... 17:25 - Hm. - Yeah. When people ask us, things/thanks? for talking 17:28 about human trafficking, "What do I do? What do 17:30 I do?" I'm just kind of like, "Man, I don't want 17:31 to tell them to immediately go and do something," 17:33 because you have to understand that the spiritual precedes. 17:36 And if you don't understand the spiritual aspect of it, 17:39 I'd be somewhat afraid or at least cautious and 17:42 immediately jumping into a physical resolution. - Okay. 17:46 Now, ministries all have an inception point and 17:49 a growing point. You've been here a couple of 17:51 years ago. What's happened in your ministry since? Kind 17:54 of give us an update. - Well, I suppose in the 17:57 eyes of some, it would probably be a step back. 17:59 - Hm. - And I think that if you were to talk to 18:06 us, which you are, but we would basically say 18:09 that God has been working in ways to prepare us in 18:12 a wilderness type of experience for something 18:15 great. Moses was extremely trained, he was extremely 18:18 capable, but he wasn't ready. And in order to 18:22 deliver people from slavery, he needed to go through an 18:25 extremely, I guess you could say, isolative period 18:28 of time where God would basically break him down 18:31 and get him prepared to handle the weight of what 18:36 he was about to embark upon. - Wow. - And so, 18:39 I think that what God has been basically doing, He 18:42 says, "Listen, I appreciate what you're doing, Alex 18:44 and Levi, but you guys... You're stepping onto 18:48 grounds that are"... I mean, it's a serious issue. 18:51 - Right. - Dealing with slavery, dealing with 18:53 somebody's property, dealing with these types of things, 18:55 you're really putting yourself on the devil's 18:58 playground. And if you're not prepared, if you're 19:00 not covered, if you don't have humility, if you're 19:03 not where you need to be, your ministry will be 19:05 compromised very quickly. - Exactly. - And so, He 19:08 needed to break us, and He's still in the process- 19:11 and yes, we've been learning a lot, we've been growing 19:13 a lot, but we've also... God has been humbling 19:17 us in a very real way, and it's kind of like, 19:20 "Man, I want to get back to it, I want to do what 19:22 I need to do," but what I realized is so often than 19:26 not, we try to save to world when our lives 19:27 are a mess. And if we're trying to solve great 19:30 problems when we can't even handle little problems, 19:32 then what's going to happen? God can't 19:35 trust us. He who is faithful in the little things will be 19:37 faithful in the great things, and so God is 19:39 taking us back and He's saying, "Hey, listen, 19:41 you've got these breaches in your life. Let's mend them. 19:43 You've got these holes that Satan could exploit. 19:45 Let's get them covered up. You've got these 19:47 weaknesses. Let's make them your strengths. So 19:49 that when you go into those places, you're no 19:51 longer going to be a liability to Me-you're going to be a 19:54 blessing to somebody." - That's amazing. And have 19:56 you seen that also in your life, Levi? - Oh, yeah. This 19:58 past year is for sure, I mean, for both of us, 20:02 exactly the wilderness experience, so to speak. 20:06 And I'm not just saying that because of the theme 20:10 that we're talking about. I've said that multiple 20:12 times in the past months to various people is that 20:16 I feel very much like God- sort of a bigger picture 20:22 of the original thing of how it happened, going 20:26 to Brazil and doing all that, where it feels like 20:28 God shut all the doors in order to take a step 20:34 back from everything and learn the ways that He 20:37 wants us to learn. Start with the right foundation, 20:40 break down the things that we were building 20:43 on that shouldn't be what you build on that need to 20:46 be taken away. And not that there was ever, you 20:50 know...anything was done insincerely or anything like 20:55 that; we just do the best as each one of us goes 20:58 in all of our lives and our Christian walks. As 21:02 we go, we do the best with what God has taught 21:05 us to that point, and there are these times like he was 21:08 saying with Moses where God took him completely away 21:13 to a situation which was very underwhelming, maybe 21:17 I can say... - I like that. - And it was sort of like 21:20 the exact opposite of where he thought he was leading 21:24 where God was going to take him at that point, 21:27 but it was so that God could actually take him 21:30 where He wanted. - As I'm listening to you, I'm 21:32 developing a picture in my mind. I get these... My wife 21:34 knows I get these unusual pictures that I don't usually 21:37 have at all times. It could be like the race 21:39 track of life where you get off the- in the pit. 21:44 - Mm. - Yeah. - Mhm. - You're in the pit, and you have to 21:46 stop there, 'cause the Lord wants to give you better 21:49 tires, because what you have is not going to take 21:51 you to the end of the journey. Your tank is 21:52 empty. He needs to fill you and then surround 21:56 you with people that could help you get to where you're 21:58 going. - Mhm. - And so, that may be some of the 22:01 things that you're experiencing. - It is, and a lot of it is 22:05 just like that, because I know this past year, 22:08 year and a half-for me definitely, and really, 22:12 for both of us-the way that God has started to 22:17 teach us things is like going almost back to the 22:20 drawing board. Not new truths, not different truths, 22:24 per se, but a new way of understanding and presenting 22:28 them through especially and specifically through 22:31 the sanctuary. - Deep? Revelation, so to speak. 22:34 - So it's like, taking us back to the beginning of, 22:39 "This is how I want to teach you, and this is 22:40 how I want you to present things from now on," and 22:43 it's just opened up a whole new world, so 22:46 to speak, for both of us, really, and the way we 22:49 understand the issues of slavery and trafficking 22:52 and life and Christ and His work-all of it. - Yeah. 22:57 The word, when we talked about slavery and trafficking, 22:59 that's a very interesting topic. - What do you mean 23:01 when you say, "slavery"? It is physical, mental...? 23:04 What do you mean? - Yes. [laughter] That pretty 23:08 much sums it up. - Spiritual? Mhm. - Well, the thing is, 23:11 slavery, we believe, is the mechanism by which 23:13 Satan uses primarily to destroy the object of 23:17 God's affection. - Yes. - And the definition that 23:20 we use of slavery is the exploitation of somebody's 23:23 vulnerability for the sake of one's own gain. And 23:26 every single one of us has some level of vulnerability, and 23:29 that could be a vulnerability in your health, a vulnerability 23:31 in your education, a vulnerability of where 23:34 you're born in society, a vulnerability... There's 23:37 vulnerabilities everywhere. And the thing is, any one 23:39 of those vulnerabilities could be exploited for 23:41 the sake of somebody else's own gain. And so for us, 23:46 slavery is a lot more... It's a much bigger issue 23:50 than just human trafficking. Human trafficking, I think, 23:52 is one of the niche outworking's that we see that is absolutely 23:58 horrible. Like when you hear about the types of things 24:00 that are happening to people and whatnot, you're absolutely 24:03 appalled. But at the same time, you have to realize 24:06 that the entire...I don't want to say the system 24:08 to make it sound like, you know...but everything 24:10 that Satan has been working over the years through every 24:13 level that he possibly can is for the purpose 24:16 of exploitation. - Mhm. - And we're all vulnerable, 24:19 and I don't think we understand how to 24:21 escape that. 'Cause ultimately, the war 24:23 that started was over the mind. It was over the minds 24:26 of the angels, like, "Is God true, or is Satan true?" 24:30 And so, what ultimately the gain to be had is, 24:35 is he going to capture our minds?-right? And 24:39 if he can't, he will get us physically. He will 24:41 bypass our free will and he'll force us, coerce us, 24:43 manipulate us-all that he has to do to basically 24:46 get us to worship him whether willingly or 24:49 unwillingly so that we become slaves. People 24:52 who kind of say, "I'm a slave to sin," and 24:55 diminish that as being less than physical slavery, 24:58 I don't think that's true at all, 'cause I believe 25:00 that the true type of slavery is a mental/ 25:02 spiritual type of slavery, and the physical is just 25:05 a means to get there. - Oh, okay. So that's 25:08 the outworking of what's going on on a deeper level 25:11 internally. - Yes. Absolutely. - A lot of times, people will 25:13 just flippantly say, "Well, I know I'm a slave to sin. 25:16 I'm struggling with this, struggling with that"... 25:17 But what's happening on the inside is far 25:20 deeper. And so, the external evidences are manifesting 25:24 themselves so when you talk about the wilderness, 25:28 slavery, trafficking, you're looking at it 25:31 not just from the logistical perspective, meaning, "This 25:34 is literally happening," "Slavery is literally 25:37 happening," but you're talking about it from a 25:39 spiritual perspective, also. - Mhm. - Build 25:43 on the word "trafficking," because we talk about 25:45 human trafficking. We know that's a very dark industry. 25:51 I don't even want to use the word "industry"; that's 25:52 a very dark practice- enslavement of man against 25:56 his or her will. - And so, I mean, trafficking- 25:59 I mean, if we go back to the Bible, the first 26:02 time that I think we see the word, especially in 26:05 relation to Satan, is in Ezekiel 28 where it says 26:08 that by the multitude of his trafficking-right-and 26:11 then we also have Revelation 18 where it talks about 26:13 when this system is falling at the great men of the 26:16 earth are wailing because they were made rich by 26:19 her merchandise. It talks about merchants of the 26:24 earth, it talks about ships, it talks about goods, it talks 26:28 about bartering in human souls and in men... And so we see 26:32 that it's not just physical goods; it's people that are for 26:35 sale on the market. There's a number of ways to go about 26:39 it. At some level, it's a bit difficult to explain, 26:44 but even purchasing lies puts you at risk of being 26:48 enslaved, or actually puts you into slavery. 26:51 But what we talk about human trafficking today 26:54 is literally the physical trafficking of human 26:58 beings, i.e. through kidnap or whether 27:00 they've been coerced into it, or whether they 27:02 chose to do it (there's people who choose to 27:04 do it for various reasons). - But not knowing how far 27:06 it's going to take them. - Exactly. Right. And so, 27:10 there's many people who choose to enter it, and 27:12 then they wish they could get out, and they don't 27:14 know how to get out. And so, there's a period of time 27:16 that some men and women stay into it before they 27:19 come to themselves, just like the prodigal son. He 27:23 thought that he knew what he was getting himself into, 27:25 and then he is feeding pigs, and it says, "He 27:27 came to himself." - Yes. - Right. - And so, there's 27:29 kind of like, this moment where you have to be in 27:31 that trouble, in that filth, for enough time for you to 27:35 come to yourself and be like, "This is not what I'm 27:37 meant for." - Wow. - And so, yeah. There's a lot there, 27:41 and I don't think I would do it any justice by trying to 27:45 sum it up too much, but... - Yeah. - Say your favorite 27:51 text or one of your texts, Romans 6:16. - I think that 27:55 that text in the Bible has become, to me, very 27:58 pivotal. It's like the fulcrum point to whether 28:02 you're a slide- you look at the seesaw. The seesaw 28:05 is a very amazing, very remedial piece of equipment 28:10 in a playground; but when it comes to geometry, 28:13 it has a fulcrum point. And for the seesaw to 28:16 be functional, the geometry of it has to be, "Where's the 28:22 center point?" Well, we used to play this game 28:26 years ago, and I remember in Brooklyn at PS3s, 'cause 28:30 PS3, one of the schools in Brooklyn not too far 28:32 from my house, they had a seesaw (and we'd do 28:36 crazy things). But when there was no other person 28:39 there, we would start in the middle of the 28:42 seesaw, and we would walk out really slowly while it's 28:46 up and see how far we have to go before it 28:50 starts going down, and we try to stop and balance it 28:52 right there. We're trying to balance it 28:54 beyond the fulcrum point, but we often discovered 28:58 that you go beyond a certain point, you're not going to 29:01 get back. It's going to come down. What happened 29:04 is you've yielded beyond the point of no return. 29:07 Romans 6:16 is that. My wife and I know. 29:11 There are three texts in the Bible that I believe 29:13 are just so significant to describing what you're 29:16 talking about-the trafficking that Satan lures us into 29:18 and then where our decision to follow along makes us 29:23 voluntary slaves to the point where we cannot 29:27 break free. In Romans 6:16, "Do you not know to whom 29:31 you yield yourself as servants to obey, you are that one 29:34 slave whom you obey whether of sin leading to death or 29:38 obedience leading to righteousness?" And in 29:40 both cases, somebody else is leading. - Yes. - All 29:43 you've done is become a servant. And then all of 29:47 a sudden, you're no longer the one doing it. Romans 7:17, 29:50 "It's no longer I who do it but sin that dwells in me." 29:52 And then Galatians 2:20, the freedom side, "It is 29:55 no longer I who live but Christ who lives in me." 29:58 So you get those, "It is no longer I; it is no longer 30:01 I." The moment you yield in any aspect of trafficking, 30:05 people that may even go into it voluntarily might 30:08 realize, "Wait a minute. I've yielded. I can't get 30:11 out." And I think that's what you're talking about 30:13 in a spiritual sense, the physical trafficking as well 30:17 as the spiritual trafficking- what people yield beyond 30:20 the point of no return. At least they can't free 30:22 themselves. - Right. And so, "yielding" is a very 30:25 important word, 'cause there's a legal term called 30:28 "tacit consent" or "acquiescence." And oftentimes, 30:31 that comes into when we yield to something by 30:34 silence where we don't actively oppose it, and 30:38 that could be for a number of reasons. It could be 30:40 because of ignorance; the terms and conditions haven't 30:42 been explained to us. And so, a person who is yielding 30:45 to certain things, they may not truly know what the 30:48 results are. They assume things, right, based on 30:50 a lack of evidence. And once they've yielded, 30:54 they've realized that they've gotten into a 30:55 trap that has now become extremely difficult to escape, 30:59 especially if you don't know the rules, if you don't know 31:02 the laws. And so, it's a very legal thing. - So 31:07 tell me about the team you're putting together, 31:10 because people that are in this, I use the phrase, 31:13 "thriving in the wilderness"... Talk about the education 31:17 that people need to know where they are and how 31:22 to get to where God wants them to be. You're talking 31:25 about putting together a team for educating 31:26 on the issues of slavery. How's that working? Let 31:30 me hear from you, Levi. - Well, last year, we had 31:35 something, I guess you would say it was like a 31:39 summit. Probably the closest way we could 31:42 describe it is we got various people from- 31:47 several of them were from out of state. And Alex, 31:51 myself, and a couple of people from around Andrews 31:55 and other places in Michigan together- there was a 31:58 doctor, a lawyer, someone who works with addiction, 32:02 specializes in addiction, a teacher...just sort of 32:09 these main areas that apply in different ways 32:13 to the ideas of slavery and trafficking-and more 32:18 broad, though. It was less specific to just human 32:24 trafficking and more to the idea of just slavery 32:27 in general and how it applies to all areas of 32:30 life. And so last year, we got together, and 32:33 we had-what was it?-four days... - Four days of 32:38 presentations and critique of presentations, yeah. 32:41 We were together for about a week. - Yes. 32:43 So, each person had, sort of like, from their area of 32:48 expertise, their knowledge that that area covered, 32:54 they would do either one or multiple presentations, 32:58 and everyone would sort of put our heads together and 33:04 ask questions and say, "This is maybe where 33:07 we could go with this," and, "What can we 33:08 learn from it? What can we get from each other?" 33:10 So we're trying to put together a group of 33:14 people that are...to bring knowledge from different 33:18 perspectives together so that we can start 33:22 having a balanced or a very general, broad view 33:28 of this whole thing, because we're learning as we go 33:30 (especially for myself)... I really didn't come into 33:35 this ministry and the things that were involved 33:39 in knowing anything about slavery, trafficking, any 33:42 of that. Alex had a lot more background in all 33:45 of that than I did when we went to Brazil. That 33:49 was sort of our first introduction to all 33:51 this, or mine, I should say. - Okay. - So especially 33:55 for me in the past several years, I'm really amazed 34:01 at the depth in this whole theme. It's really 34:05 a theme in Scripture, and within the plan of salvation, 34:07 more than anything, is that it applies really 34:12 to everything-to every area of life. And like Alex 34:18 mentioned earlier, the idea of just physical 34:22 trafficking, sex trafficking, sex slavery, those kinds 34:25 of things, they are sort of, I don't want to say a 34:30 side issue, but they're only one small aspect of 34:33 what the real principles entail and how they 34:38 apply to life. And so, that's sort of the group 34:42 that we're trying to get together. And this year 34:45 and just recently, actually, God is bringing other pieces 34:50 to that group, to that puzzle, to the knowledge 34:53 that we want to put together, and it's becoming very 34:57 interesting. - It's stuff that will blow your mind. 35:01 It's blowing our mind. We thought that what 35:02 we learned through our experiences was something 35:05 new, but God always brings surprises, and the amount 35:08 of things that we're learning is stuff that'll 35:11 probably bull over the church. And in the ways 35:14 that we... - For example. - Yeah, exactly. - Give 35:18 us a snippet. [simultaneous chatter] Give us a piece 35:23 of the menu. - Specially from the legal side... 35:27 - Okay. - You know, we'd always talk about God's 35:30 name...but when reality will realize that the Bible 35:34 is so full of legal terms and there are so many 35:37 different layers to law that we're completely 35:40 ignorant of, and really what the case is is a 35:44 defamation case. God's name is being defamed 35:47 through all that is happening; and including through His 35:50 people, oftentimes, we are defaming Him, and it's 35:53 proving Satan's case true when we engage in that 35:56 type of behavior. - Hmm. Taking the name of the 35:59 Lord in vain. - Exactly, right? - It's doing good- 36:03 I mean-but we're doing evil in God's name, right? 36:07 And the thing is...let's say that as Christians, 36:10 we end up playing Christianity a whole lot, and we give God 36:13 a bad name. And so, we're defaming His character. 36:17 Through the process, we're actually contributing to 36:18 slavery. But going back to the legal thing is that 36:21 we were learning about the different levels of 36:24 law there that I just wasn't aware about 36:26 that in the United States, we're subject to different 36:29 layers of law: there's city law, and then city 36:32 law's subject to state, and then state to national, 36:34 then I didn't realize that the national is subject 36:36 to republic laws. Now, republic is subject to 36:40 something called merchant law, or admiralty law, which, 36:44 in the past, was called law of the sea, or trade 36:47 law-commerce law-and that's actually above the 36:50 law of the republic. And above that, you have 36:52 common law; and above common law, you actually 36:54 have spiritual jurisdiction. So the highest law that 36:57 exists in the world, even to secular governments, 37:00 is bound by biblical-based law. So even this thing 37:04 that I mentioned of tacit agreement or tacit consent 37:08 is actually a principle based on biblical, and it's 37:12 used within the context of normal law. And the 37:17 thing is, most of us, we operate on national level, 37:20 and we don't realize that there are laws above that. 37:22 And especially in the understanding of sovereignty, 37:25 we always question like, "What is God's sovereignty?" 37:27 But when we realize like, "Wow, there's laws above 37:29 laws," and the highest law is spiritual jurisdiction, 37:33 then we realize that all laws in the earth, including 37:36 what Satan tries to do, can never counteract 37:38 the highest level of laws. He operates within those 37:40 laws, so we see that God is in control by virtue 37:43 of the legal system that Satan can't overthrow. 37:46 He has to operate within the confines of that, and 37:48 that's how we have things like rules of engagement. 37:51 Even Satan has to request certain things from God 37:54 in order to move forward. And when we begin to 37:58 understand these things, we no longer have fear, 38:00 because we know like, "Oh, he's going to be 38:02 playing THAT game, and I don't need to play that 38:04 game," right? Because I understand who's 38:06 in control, how the laws work, and how to operate 38:09 within that system. And so, it really peels back 38:13 a whole lot and it makes you understand just many 38:15 things, like... I am not a legal professional, 38:18 and I've probably said a few things that a lawyer 38:20 may be, "Ehh," but the thing is, I'm in the process of 38:24 learning. A lot of the things- this is kind of 38:26 like, you know, we're coming together with 38:28 legal professionals who see the spiritual, where they've 38:30 been involved in counter- trafficking, and they're 38:33 combining it with what they know and we're 38:35 combining with what we know, and we're sharing 38:37 with each other. And I'm blowing their minds and 38:39 they're blowing my mind, and it's kind of like when 38:40 we combine it together, it creates a picture that 38:43 gives you so much more faith in the fact that 38:46 God is in control, that God is true, that God 38:49 is just, and that He wants to set the captives free. 38:52 That's what He came to do! - That's right. - Amen. 38:54 - Wow, that's interesting. You know, when you talk 38:57 about the legal layers... My mind is moving at 39:00 quite a rapid pace, because the Bible is a book of laws. 39:03 But then, you have this area that exists when you 39:08 are in Christ. That's the one place that the law 39:12 has no impact. When the fruit of the Spirit is 39:18 evident in your life against such, there is no law. 39:24 So, there's no confine there. In other words, 39:26 you can't be TOO happy. You can't be TOO peaceful. 39:29 You can't be TOO loving. There's no limit; there's 39:33 no law to limit your peace, your longsuffering, 39:36 your gentleness, your meekness, your patience... There's no 39:38 law to limit that...but there IS a law to limit 39:41 your anxiety, your hatred, your envy, your malice, 39:45 your jealousy... God puts limits to that, and praise 39:49 God for that! - Yeah. - Because Satan, you 39:52 find in Scripture, when demons had encounters 39:56 with Christ, they knew that there was a limit. 39:59 - Yeah. - Yeah. "Have you come to torment us before 40:01 our time?" They knew they were pushing up against 40:04 that-they were stretching the limits. Even in 1 Peter, 40:09 I believe it is, where the Bible says, "For if 40:13 God spared not the angels that sinned but cast them 40:17 to the earth and delivered them into chains"... He placed 40:22 limits on them so they couldn't pass the boundary 40:25 of His law-His prohibitions, which are all based on the 40:30 law of His government. - It's interesting, too, 40:33 what you're saying, because there's no law against 40:36 righteousness; there's no law against the fruit 40:37 of the Spirit, and Paul talks about how the 40:39 law was for those who are doing all these wicked things, 40:43 right? Because those are the things that it applies 40:46 to. It doesn't put any limitations on righteousness. 40:49 You can go at infinity, infinitum, to becoming 40:55 more and more like Christ in His image. And you have 40:58 that in the New Testament, but you also have in the 41:00 Old Testament, they had the idea, as well; they just 41:03 had it in different words. They said things like, 41:05 "You've set my feet in a broad place," you know, 41:08 "a place that's open." That's the idea of not 41:11 having the limitations, because they were 41:13 referring to righteousness. There was the same thing, 41:18 but just said in different words. And it's such an 41:22 interesting thought that even-and I very much 41:26 believe that even in eternity, even in heaven, we're 41:30 always going to be growing into God's image forever 41:33 without any limits. - Oh, yeah. - To the measure 41:35 of the stature of the fullness of Christ. And 41:38 we know there'll never be a time when you say, 41:41 "Okay, I think I've learned all there is to know." It's 41:44 like an ant walking in there and saying, "I 41:48 think I know all there is to know about humans," 41:49 and he's looking up at us. "I've seen him for 41:53 quite a few weeks; I think I know all there is to know 41:55 about him." The limitation of man to the limitlessness 41:58 of God...it's amazing. - Yeah. I've thought 42:01 sometimes of the example of an exponential curve. 42:06 You have the two lines, the asymptotes, the 42:08 vertical. And in the beginning of an exponential 42:12 curve, it's very drastic, right? It's very obvious. 42:16 And like when someone just comes to Christ, they go 42:19 from horizontal to vertical through the faith walk, 42:23 right? And it's very clear, the change of life, the 42:27 change of direction. But as you continue, 42:29 and even into eternity, you continue going up 42:32 that line, and those two lines get closer and closer 42:36 and closer together... A very interesting thing 42:40 about that is that they can get infinitely close, 42:44 and they're always infinitely far apart. - Hm. - You 42:49 can go infinitely close to that line and still forever never 42:56 have the ability to fully reach the image of Christ, 42:59 because He's so perfect and so holy. - Oh, yeah. 43:02 - It's really, it's a perfect example. 43:05 - Mathematical laws is another thing, but... 43:08 As I'm thinking, like, there's just so much 43:10 there. There's everything; everything just shows that 43:15 God is controlling everything that is created is giving 43:19 glory to Him. - There's actually a mathematician 43:22 in the group, as well. - Okay. - Oh, is there! 43:25 How many of you in the group? - Right now, I 43:28 don't know if we have an official number... It's kind of- 43:30 but right now, it's 6 of us, and we're trying 43:33 to bring in 3 more on board. But once we get 43:36 to a good 8-10, that's when we want to begin 43:41 to actually... We've kept a lot of information to 43:43 ourselves because what we wanted to do is we 43:45 wanted to make that the things that we're sharing 43:47 are things that are not just worth sharing but 43:50 things that would be profitable, because 43:52 there are certain things to know about slavery, 43:53 there's certain things to know about darkness, 43:55 that won't benefit anybody. We'll just make them more 43:57 frustrated or make them go in the wrong direction, 43:59 or they'll start looking at conspiracies... And 44:01 we believe that there's a grand conspiracy, but 44:04 somehow chasing the rabbit hole is not going to get you 44:06 to any resolution. And so, we wanted to make 44:10 sure that we kind of come together and say, "Hey 44:12 listen, this is what we've experienced, this is what 44:14 we've learned; is this something that people 44:16 need to know, or not yet? What can we share 44:18 that would be beneficial, things that could help?" 44:21 And so we're keeping each other in check. 44:23 - All right. - We want to make sure we go about 44:24 it the right way, and so it's the multitude of 44:26 counselors, right? So that's what we're trying to do. 44:28 We're trying to surround ourselves with people 44:30 who are passionate but who are also, we can 44:33 balance each other out, and we're very prayerful 44:36 in the way that we approach the whole thing. - Okay. 44:38 - Well talk about action steps. What is that? - So, 44:42 you want to talk about the first action step, or...? 44:44 - Yeah. The main three purposes or goals, I 44:51 guess you could say, long-term goals that we have, are... #1, 44:56 is what we're talking about or the purpose 44:59 of what we're talking about is educating people in the 45:03 very broad base of knowledge that we're hoping to put 45:07 together. So, that's the first one. The second 45:10 one, which was, in reality, was the first one that we 45:13 started with, but the second one I want to 45:16 mention here is prayer and praying for, specifically, 45:22 for God to take over your home, your heart, your 45:29 family, your character, or your city, etc. This was 45:33 the original purpose and center of what God really 45:38 called us to, even starting back in Brazil like we were 45:41 mentioning a little bit, is praying for God to 45:45 take over territory. We believe very much that 45:47 that is- and we could have a Bible study-a whole Bible 45:51 study on that idea. It's very clear in Scripture 45:54 that it works on territories. It starts in the territory 45:58 of your heart and your mind-right?-and it goes 46:02 out from there-it goes to your family, to your 46:05 circle of friends, to your influence, your 46:08 church, your city...etc. The world at large, right?- 46:13 is that God eventually, in the end, He'll end up 46:16 with this whole thing as His territory. The 46:21 New Jerusalem comes down, and God takes over the 46:24 territory of the earth, but it starts on a very 46:28 small, personal level. So, this is the second one 46:33 that we want to really focus on is getting 46:37 people to pray, to pray for their cities, to pray 46:40 for their families, to pray for... - Like an 46:42 intercessory prayer. [simultaneous talk] 46:44 - It's two levels of... It's intercessory prayer, 46:48 so that, I guess for lack of a better term, 46:51 self-mastery. He who rules himself is greater than he 46:54 who taketh the city, but we also want to take the 46:56 city. - Okay. - We want to rule ourselves first 46:59 because that's where the greatest battle is, and 47:02 then we also want to take the cities. - Okay. - And 47:05 so the idea is that one of the prayer initiatives 47:07 that we want to do is we want to unite with 47:09 people in every single time zone of the world, 47:13 that they would begin to march on their cities 47:16 in prayer, understanding the concepts of spiritual 47:20 warfare, so that they're praying in like manner, 47:23 realizing what it is they're warring against-not against 47:25 flesh and blood, but against principalities and powers- 47:27 right? And that way, if we assign an hour of 47:32 prayer to each of those time zones, within 24 47:34 hours, there's always somebody praying on earth. - That's 47:37 right. - So, in every single city, in every single time 47:40 zone, there is a city or a place or a region 47:43 that is being covered in prayer for God to 47:45 basically be asked, "You were given permission; 47:49 we're asking You to be here. Take over this 47:51 territory; use us to do it." And so, it's laying the 47:53 groundwork for when God is going to open up the 47:57 doors for us to physically take people out of that, 47:59 because we believe that the first step that needs 48:01 to be broken down initially is the spiritual transit? 48:04 are holding people. Their minds need to be changed; 48:06 they need to have that mind come to themselves 48:08 that, "I need to get out of this. Now, I'm looking 48:10 for help; who's going to help me?" We're 48:12 hoping that we're the people that God has there. 48:14 - That's right. It's like a prayer wave. - Yes. 48:16 - Just continues to... - The prayer of Jabez, 48:18 it reminds me of that. - Yes. Yes, "enlarge my 48:20 territory." Yeah. - And it applies, too, more than 48:25 just to bring in people out of trafficking and 48:28 praying for those issues in a broader sense. We're 48:32 told, for example, that the final events will be 48:36 rapid ones, right? The final thing, God's going 48:39 to do them just like that, but He's not going to do 48:41 that out of thin air. - No. - The way has 48:44 to be prepared first, right? And so, the way is prepared 48:48 spiritually before He does it physically. And so if 48:51 it's gonna go quick when that time comes where 48:55 God is gonna do those things outwardly, externally, 48:58 the way had to have had been opened already 49:01 spiritually; the doors already have to be 49:03 opened spiritually for Him to do that. - Yeah, 49:06 'cause the Lord says while things are happening at a 49:08 rapid pace and will happen at a rapid pace and He 49:12 will finish the work, but Amos-I think it's 49:14 Amos 3:7-"Surely, the Lord God does nothing except 49:18 He reveals His secrets to His servants, the 49:20 prophets." So He keeps us informed about His 49:23 next move, whereas others won't know about that. 49:26 So when you stay in harmony with God through-let me 49:30 use the phrase here-the cadence spirituality, when you are 49:34 in step with the cadence spirituality, because we 49:38 don't want to be out of step with God. There's a 49:41 cadence to spirituality. And just recently, I was 49:44 looking at that where we could assess ourselves, 49:46 and I like what you talked about. Self-assessment. 49:49 The Bible says it this way: "Examine yourself 49:51 to see whether or not you're in the faith; 49:54 try yourself. Do you not know except God is in 49:57 you, you are disqualified," or "reprobate," as the King 49:59 James version says. So we don't want to be 50:01 operating-and I like the way you began it 50:03 earlier-we don't want to be extending freedom 50:05 to other people while we're in bondage, ourselves. 50:08 - A slave can't free another slave. - That's right. - Two 50:10 broke don't make a rich; it just doesn't work that 50:13 way. You have- - Blind leading the blind. 50:14 - Ex- blind leading the blind. Like, you literally 50:16 have to be at a level where you've experienced 50:20 maybe not total freedom but some level of freedom 50:22 that you can offer to somebody else, and we're 50:24 all growing in our understanding of what freedom truly means. 50:26 - That's right. - And so were the children of 50:28 Israel. They got taken out of Egypt and they 50:31 were given freedom, but they didn't know how to 50:32 handle it. - That's right. - And so, they needed 50:34 that time in the wilderness to teach them to be retrained 50:37 about what freedom truly means. - Wow, that is 50:40 amazing. When you talk about this "crying at 50:43 the gate"... I mean, honey, this is amazing. 50:44 And I know that you're skirting right now 'cause 50:47 you're laying the foundation for something that is still 50:49 in development. - Yeah. - But I think what our 50:51 audience is listening to is there is a growth 50:55 aspect to getting into bondage, and there's 50:58 an aspect of getting out of bondage. - Yes. - So, 51:01 what Pastor Alex and Levi are talking about is, how 51:06 do we get into this trace? that we're in? How do we 51:09 recognize that we're about to, even though 51:12 we may voluntarily say, "This is what I want 51:14 to do," we have to be mindful. And unless our 51:17 minds are in tune with God's, we can make decisions 51:20 that seem to be right, but as the Bible says, "The 51:23 end thereof is the"... - "Way of death." - Way 51:25 of death. - And so, we're talking about, how do you 51:28 wake up a person before they get to the way of 51:30 death? Because so many people today- you know 51:33 the quote Ellen White says. "There are many people 51:34 that are going to Christ-less graves; they are in bondage 51:38 to sin." They're in bondage to slavery. And though they 51:42 entered that voluntarily, they can't free themselves. 51:46 And so, we want to make sure that if you're watching 51:50 the program, we're going to make sure that you are 51:52 able to get information to get in touch with 51:54 Pastor Alex...Niculaescu? - Niculaescu, yeah. - Okay, 51:59 I got that right! Amazing. That's good.- Because 52:02 of our last name. - I know. I try to be right with that, 52:05 'cause I'm a Lomacang. That's actually not the 52:07 right way, either. It's "Loh-MAH-kahng," but 52:09 we're not talking about that right now. And also, 52:12 layman Levi Longoria. And so, here's the information 52:16 that you need to be able to get in touch with them, 52:18 because what is in development right now is going to explode. 52:22 And as you've already heard, Pastor Alex said 52:24 it's mind-blowing already. - It is. - So here's how you 52:28 can get in touch with them and invite them into your 52:29 area. - Crying at the Gates Ministry believes in freeing 52:34 people from physical, spiritual, and mental 52:37 slavery through active prayer, rescue, and 52:40 education. In this way, they cry on behalf of 52:44 those who have no voice and on issues which many 52:47 are afraid to confront. Please support their 52:50 commitment to help the victims of human trafficking, 52:53 emotional abuse, and prostitution by donating 52:56 on their website, CryingAtTheGates.com. 52:59 If you would like more information on their 53:01 ministry, just email them at info@CryingAtTheGates.com |
Revised 2019-10-09