Participants:
Series Code: TDY
Program Code: TDY210054A
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00:02 As you're well aware,
00:03 we're living in unprecedented times. 00:05 Join us now for Today special program. 00:13 I want to spend my life 00:18 Mending broken people 00:23 I want to spend my life 00:29 Removing pain 00:34 Lord, let my words 00:40 Heal a heart that hurts 00:45 I want to spend my life 00:50 Mending broken people 00:55 I want to spend my life 01:01 Mending broken people 01:16 Hello, and welcome once again to 3ABN Today. 01:18 We are so glad that you're joining us 01:21 that you're taking this time. 01:23 And I think today's going to be a unique program. 01:27 We have a very special guest, 01:28 I'll go ahead and introduce him just by name 01:31 and then we'll come to that moment. 01:32 But Pastor John Bradshaw, 01:36 who is the President of It Is Written is with us today. 01:40 We're gonna do something different. 01:41 We like to kind of 01:43 shake things up every now and then. 01:45 We're just going to have a personal chat today, 01:48 get to know him a little better. 01:49 He is so well known around the world 01:52 for his work for the Lord. 01:54 I just thought 01:55 there's so many people new to 3ABN, 01:58 who may not know his fascinating personal story. 02:02 And we're gonna come to that in just a moment. 02:04 I wanted to share with you 02:05 before we do one of my favorite scriptures, 02:08 and it's found in 2 Corinthians 5:21. 02:12 I'll read it from the New King James. 02:15 The Bible says, "For He made Him 02:17 who knew no sin, to be sin for us, 02:23 that we might become 02:26 the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus." 02:30 And this is something that 02:33 I think we're gonna touch on today 02:35 because as John and I, 02:37 we haven't seen each other for a couple of years, 02:39 as we sat, we're just talking. 02:42 We were both expressing 02:45 how righteousness by faith is something we were seeking. 02:48 So help me welcome our special guest, 02:52 Pastor John Bradshaw. 02:54 Thanks for having me. 02:55 It's great to see you. This is gonna be fun. 02:57 I appreciate the chance to catch up, 02:59 and we can talk about the Bible 03:01 and talk about righteousness 03:02 by faith and talk about a special book 03:05 in addition to the Bible. 03:07 I think we're gonna have a good time. 03:08 I believe this is going to be a wonderful time. 03:12 Now you like music? I do. 03:14 And I know that you're at home like music, 03:18 so we have a special song for you 03:21 by Scott Michael Bennett. 03:24 And he's going to sing How Deep is the Father's Love. 03:41 How deep the Father's love for us 03:48 How vast beyond all measure 03:54 That He should give His only Son 04:00 To make a wretch His treasure 04:06 How great the pain of searing loss 04:12 The Father turns His face away 04:18 As wounds which mar the Chosen One 04:25 Bring many sons to glory 04:33 Behold the Lamb upon that cross 04:39 My sin upon His shoulders 04:45 Ashamed, I hear my mocking voice 04:51 Call out among the scoffers 04:57 It was my sin that held Him there 05:03 Until it was accomplished 05:09 His dying breath has brought me life 05:15 I know that it is finished 05:24 I will not boast in anything 05:29 No gifts, no power, no wisdom 05:35 But I will boast in Jesus Christ 05:41 His death and resurrection 05:47 Why should I gain from His reward 05:53 I cannot give an answer 05:59 But this I know with all my heart 06:05 His wounds have paid my ransom 06:11 Why should I gain from His reward 06:17 I cannot give an answer 06:23 But this I know with all my heart 06:29 His wounds have paid my ransom 06:36 But this I know 06:38 With all my heart 06:43 His wounds have paid my ransom 07:08 Thank you, Scott. 07:09 He always ministers to my soul 07:13 when he is singing and I understand that 07:15 Scott is a personal friend of yours. 07:17 Yeah, close friend. 07:19 He's a wonderful guy, you know, 07:20 with Scott, what you see is Scott, it's always him. 07:24 And when he ministers it's not a facade. 07:27 It's not a show. This is it. 07:28 He got into music ministry 07:31 because he was called by God to minister through music 07:34 and he loves to reach the heart and lift up Jesus. 07:38 He's a fabulous guy and lovely family. 07:40 Good man. Amen. 07:41 And I can echo those words about you, John Bradshaw. 07:46 You know, so many people will say, 07:48 oh, he's my favorite speaker. 07:50 But we know that God called you 07:52 to your position as President of It Is Written. 07:56 But more than that, you were a seeker of the truth. 08:00 I'm a seeker of truth. 08:02 Let's before we get into your history, 08:05 your personal history. 08:06 Tell us a little bit about how the family is doing 08:09 and what how It Is Written is doing? 08:11 Oh, great and great. 08:13 You know, my wife right now 08:14 was training for a half marathon. 08:16 Bless her. 08:17 I told her you run a marathon one day. 08:18 Oh, no, no, I never. 08:20 It was just about a week ago, 08:21 she said, you know, I'm starting to wonder 08:24 if I should run a marathon. 08:25 So she's doing great. 08:26 I think today, she went on her 10 mile run 08:28 in preparation for the 13.1. 08:31 And I'm only running a couple of miles a day. 08:33 So I'm feeling, I'm feeling lazy. 08:35 Kids are great both at college both doing well. 08:38 Yeah, they're wonderful human beings. 08:41 I like being around them just because they're great people. 08:43 God has blessed Melissa and I with two fantastic kids. 08:46 Well, then two fantastic kids who are in love with the Lord. 08:52 And that's the best thing about it, you know? 08:55 Yes. 08:56 Is that you know that 08:58 they're connecting with God daily. 08:59 They're taking their personal devotional time daily. 09:02 Worry may be the wrong word, but it may be the right word, 09:05 all parents tend to worry about their kids. 09:08 I've never met a young adult 09:11 who walked away from the church 09:12 or walked away from faith in Jesus, 09:14 who was having a daily personal devotional 09:16 experience. 09:17 So with our children, you know, 09:19 we don't take anything for granted 09:20 and we don't take any credit. 09:22 But it's exciting to me to see my children first thing 09:24 they do is they spend time with God. 09:26 They're reading the Bible. 09:28 Faith is real to them. 09:29 They're in church, 09:30 they love to go to church and yeah, 09:33 it's great, I just... 09:34 My prayer is they continue to be an influence 09:37 and leaders in the church on some level, you know, 09:40 not just they're making 09:41 up the numbers or warming a pew. 09:43 Well, and I think we give all the glory to God, 09:46 but I think that that you and your wife can be, 09:51 some credit can be reflected on you 09:53 because you taught your children 09:55 to have a relationship with the Lord. 09:57 They taught him about the love of the Lord. 10:00 And I always say, 10:01 and I hold to these rules 10:04 without relationship result in rebellion. 10:07 If you're bringing your children up, 10:08 just to do this, don't do this 10:11 and they don't understand why God has regulations, 10:16 why He has set out boundaries to protect them 10:20 and giving them an abundant life here, 10:22 and life ever after. 10:24 Then your kids are probably gonna rebel, 10:26 but obviously yours know. 10:28 If they're smart, they'll rebel. 10:31 If you've raised kids just on rules, rules, rules, 10:34 if they've got any brains, they'll rebel, 10:36 because they will figure it out. 10:38 If they're honest 10:39 they'll figure out that there's no future in that. 10:41 Who is this God? 10:42 You mean, He wants blind obeisance, 10:45 some blind obedience and this, there's nothing in it for me. 10:49 The one thing about a relationship with God 10:51 is that God says everywhere, 10:53 there's something in it for you. 10:54 Amen. 10:56 Yeah, I don't mean just in a selfish way. 10:57 No. 10:59 God says, I want this for you because Israel, 11:00 you'll be the head not the tail, 11:01 I'm going to lead you to a land that flows 11:03 with milk and honey, it's kind of the same today. 11:04 And I don't mean, the prosperity sort of thing. 11:07 I mean, God says, you won't perish, 11:10 you'll have everlasting life. 11:12 God says, I want you to be rich, 11:15 His gold tried in the fire. 11:16 You understand what I mean? Yes. 11:17 All of the things that God adds to our lives are additions 11:20 and not subtraction. 11:22 So if you teach young people along the way, 11:23 even when they say, why can't I? 11:26 Why do they and not we? 11:27 What about this? 11:28 Take those questions head on, and simply explain, 11:32 this is God's plan. 11:33 God loves you, 11:35 it's gonna work out best God's way. 11:37 Kids aren't thick, you know, they'll understand that 11:39 if you reach their hearts, 11:41 many kids are going to get, you know, 11:42 speed bumps along the way. 11:44 It's okay, it's growing pains. 11:45 You know, okay, hear me with grace here. 11:48 These are the sorts of things that happen. 11:50 But if you will endeavor to connect a child's mind 11:53 with the mind of God, 11:54 the heart with the heart of God, 11:55 let them see Jesus, you know, 11:57 even after a hard day, they'll have the opportunity 11:59 to sit back and go, yeah, God's way is good. 12:02 And God loves me. 12:04 And God wants the best for me. 12:07 I had a man come to an evangelistic series 12:09 in California years ago. 12:11 And he'd been gone from the church for decades. 12:15 So he'd been raised in the church but he would, 12:17 he would tell me that, oh, as a kid, 12:19 I'd play with my little toy cars 12:21 in the dirt on Sabbath, 12:22 and my dad would belt me for it. 12:25 You know, we may agree, 12:28 maybe that's not the very perfect this thing, 12:30 someone may say, I'm not getting into that. 12:32 But the question is, how do you deal with that? 12:35 And how do you let your kids see God in the midst of that. 12:38 That young boy playing with, that wasn't the point, 12:41 what the boy needed was to see Jesus some, 12:44 no matter what he's doing, 12:45 to see Jesus and to know that his dad loved God. 12:48 So I would encourage parents everywhere, 12:50 just love your kids and point them to Jesus, 12:53 pray for them, pray with them, read the Bible with them. 12:57 Don't criticize the church, don't criticize God, 13:01 be positive, it's pretty hard for a kid 13:03 to go off the rails not impossible. 13:06 Not impossible. 13:07 But it's a lot harder for a child to go off the rails 13:09 if you provide that kind of supportive environment. 13:11 And you're clearing the track for them as if it were. 13:15 So how did you grow up, 13:18 you grew up in a Christian home but did you know the truth? 13:22 I was raised 13:24 in a Roman Catholic family by a man 13:26 who was a thoroughly good man. 13:27 And I mean that in the worldly sense, 13:29 you know, a mother 13:30 who was not of any religious profession. 13:32 She tolerated my dad's Catholicism, 13:34 and I think he tried to impress Catholicism on her 13:38 and she wasn't buying and that was that. 13:41 So they live very separate religious lives. 13:45 My dad very involved with this church, my mother, 13:47 actually quite involved with the church on some levels, 13:49 but no religious practice. 13:52 And so we were raised to go to the Catholic Church, 13:54 when I say separate religious lives, 13:55 otherwise, they were as happy as everybody else, you know? 13:59 And as my earliest memories of being in that church 14:02 with the crucifix above the altar, 14:04 and the Stations of the Cross, 14:06 and the wooden pews without any cushions on them, 14:09 and the wooden kneelers and the nuns 14:12 and the old priests who we were fortunate, 14:15 we didn't have any, anything scandalous 14:16 or anything to be critical about. 14:18 We had good priests as far as they go. 14:21 So I was raised up in that mill, you know, 14:23 it was Catholicism. 14:24 It was heaven or hell, or purgatory or limbo 14:27 for I think that moved away from that now, 14:30 confession, the sacraments, your first holy confession, 14:33 the first communion, confirmation, 14:35 all of that altar boy for many years, 14:37 happy to be in my church, proud of my church. 14:41 Then I started to ask some questions, you know, 14:42 because not everything added up, 14:45 didn't all stack up. 14:47 I'd ask some questions. 14:49 I'd be serving as an altar boy at a funeral. 14:52 And in the church, 14:54 we are just celebratory even in our tears 14:56 because Mr. Smith is in heaven in the presence of God 15:00 and he's praising God today we can be comforted. 15:03 Thirty five or 40 minutes later, 15:05 we're at the cemetery lowering 15:07 Mr. Smith into the heart of the earth. 15:10 And the same priest now says, 15:13 we commit our dear brother to the grave 15:16 where he will wait to meet the Lord 15:20 when Jesus comes back. 15:22 Whoa, hold on, how can he be in two places at once? 15:25 And you can perform 15:27 all kinds of theological gymnastics 15:29 to try to make those 15:30 two perpendicular lines meet head to head. 15:35 They don't. 15:39 And questions like that. 15:40 And I looked at those questions and said, 15:42 there's got to be an answer somewhere. 15:45 So how did God, I mean, 15:48 what kind of a kid were you as a teenager? 15:50 When did you really start seeking the truth? 15:54 Seeking answers to those questions? 15:57 We all had questions. 15:58 I can remember when I was 12 years old, 16:01 that my best friend 16:02 who was a strong churchgoer, and she said, 16:05 "Have you ever thought, what if God's not real?" 16:08 And I said, "No." 16:10 It was like, oh, blasphemy, you know? 16:12 Oh, yeah. 16:13 But there were a series of questions 16:16 that I had as well. 16:17 But how old were you 16:20 when God was starting to get your attention? 16:24 Tell you a fascinating story, about 9 or 10 years old, 16:27 I'd gone to confession and confession, you know, 16:31 you're absolved. 16:32 The priest would say, back then, 16:35 we were in English, but our priests would still 16:38 have some Latin phrases Ego tabs over, 16:41 I absolve you, 16:43 you're absolved of your sins during confession. 16:45 And now, the weight of the world 16:47 is rolled off me, I'm cleaned before God. 16:49 But I knew that by the time I got home, 16:51 I would have sinned again, I knew it. 16:53 If you had a brother, like my next oldest brother, 16:55 you'd have sinned 16:56 before you got home too, you know. 16:59 So I remember walking, 17:01 our church was right on the main highway, 17:05 the main highway through the country. 17:08 And this is in New Zealand? 17:10 Now they bypassed our town. 17:12 But back then every vehicle traveling north to south 17:15 went right past our front door, 17:16 and right past the front door of the church, 17:18 and I thought to myself, I'll never be clean. 17:21 I'll never be good enough to go to heaven. 17:23 Never. 17:25 And I looked at these big trucks, 17:26 the semis going past. 17:27 And as I stood between the sidewalk 17:31 and the road on the grass strip, 17:34 I thought to myself, maybe one of those big trucks 17:37 could run off the road and run me over and kill me. 17:40 Wow. 17:41 And then I'm good, then I'll be... 17:44 Then I'll go to heaven. Wow. 17:46 I thought, well, as I stood there 17:48 for a minute or so, 17:49 I realized these vehicles don't just run off the road. 17:53 So I'm hoping against hope here, 17:54 I thought, what if I were to throw myself 17:57 under one of these vehicles as it came by? 18:00 Just dive right under there 18:02 probably wouldn't feel much. 18:03 And I'd be dead. 18:05 Clean, no sin, and I could go to heaven. 18:08 And I thought I couldn't do that 18:11 because that would be a sin, I think. 18:13 And my mother and father might be sad, so. 18:17 So I don't want to say I was contemplating suicide. 18:21 No. 18:22 But I was walking through the steps, 18:24 I was weighing up the pros and cons of killing myself. 18:29 To figure out how to become righteous? 18:30 Yeah. 18:32 So I could be good enough to go to him 18:33 because I just been forgiven. 18:34 Yeah. Soul was clean. 18:37 So if I die now, it's all good. 18:40 So it was about then, Shelley, I was asking these questions, 18:43 because I was very sensitive to the voice of God, 18:45 even though you know, what kind of kid were you? 18:47 Well, better be careful. 18:50 Even though I don't think 18:52 I was chosen from among the good angels. 18:54 I was very sensitive to God and I wanted to be saved 18:57 and I wanted to live for God 18:59 and I wanted to go to heaven. 19:01 Tell you a funny thing that helped me. 19:02 I know in our churches, we don't have crucifixes 19:05 and I feel someone is going to mishear me. 19:09 So please don't mishear me. 19:11 Something that spoke to me, 19:13 in a crucifix above the altar in our church, 19:16 kind of an almost life sized 19:18 portrayal of Jesus on the cross, 19:20 a couple of dots of blood on each hand, 19:23 a few drops of blood down. 19:24 And so it was a pretty sanitized crucifixion, 19:26 you know? 19:28 But I would see that every time I was in church, 19:31 and I would know, God loves you. 19:34 Jesus died for you. 19:35 God loves you. 19:37 Jesus died for you. 19:38 Whenever I saw that Jesus on the cross, 19:41 it reminded me that the Savior died for me. 19:45 You know, I wasn't picking up too much good theology 19:48 there in the Roman Catholic Church. 19:50 But there was some pretty good theology 19:51 taught to me by an inanimate crucifix. 19:55 Again, I'm not endorsing crucifixes. 19:58 But as a kid I knew God loved me. 20:00 I knew that, I just couldn't figure out 20:01 how I could be good enough to go to heaven. 20:03 You know, that resonates with me 20:06 because a little slightly different. 20:09 I was taught I had to be perfect 20:12 to be loved by the Father. 20:13 I knew Jesus loved me. 20:15 But I was taught even Jesus was going to spew me 20:20 out of His mouth if I was less than perfect, 20:22 if I was ever lukewarm, and I will, 20:25 I had performer mentality deluxe, 20:29 I was always 20:30 the little angel teacher's pet straight 20:34 A students Sunday school teacher growing up, 20:37 I did everything right. 20:39 Never disobeyed my mother. 20:41 I was one of those. 20:43 But when I got off to college, 20:45 everybody was calling me 20:46 miss goody two shoes, they called me Pollyanna. 20:49 And I finally had 20:51 this reckoning with God, 20:57 because I had tried so hard to be perfect all my life. 21:01 And I knew I wasn't. 21:03 And everybody kept telling me, 21:04 they love me because I was perfect. 21:06 And that makes you feel absolutely insecure. 21:09 So what happened? 21:11 I finally looked at the Lord. 21:13 And the thing that wasn't making any sense to me 21:16 is if you are love, 21:17 how could You burn someone with unceasing torture? 21:22 Yeah. 21:23 And I just finally said, hey, I can't please you. 21:25 I may as well quit trying, 21:28 and I walked away from the Lord. 21:29 And what you did 21:31 was the intellectually honest thing to do. 21:32 Yeah. 21:34 Frankly, more people ought to do that. 21:37 And here's what I mean. 21:39 Could get me in trouble, couldn't it? 21:40 Here's what I mean. 21:42 When you realize you're not good enough, 21:46 and you can't be good enough for God, 21:49 for salvation to earn God's love. 21:52 And then you realize there's no other way, 21:54 if you don't know the truth, 21:57 the honest thing to do is to leave, 22:00 is to walk away from God. 22:01 That's the intellectually honest thing to do. 22:04 You look at your Christian experience, 22:05 and you say, this doesn't work. 22:07 You're not telling a lie. 22:09 That's the truth that if you haven't been taught 22:14 the Bible truth about grace, 22:16 and righteousness by faith, 22:19 that's what makes the difference. 22:22 And then this hope, 22:23 then the burden of your heart rolls away, 22:26 then like Christian pilgrim's progress, 22:28 you can take that big weight off 22:29 and lay it down at Jesus' feet. 22:32 Imagine trying to be good enough 22:35 to go to heaven. 22:36 No one can. No one can. 22:39 I tried for 50 years. 22:41 You see, a man came to Jesus one day and said, 22:44 Good Master. 22:45 Jesus said, hold up. 22:47 Why are you calling me good? 22:48 There's only one that's good and that's the Father. 22:51 So if you're trying to be good, you're trying to be God. 22:55 No, you don't wanna mishear this. 22:56 Oh, I understood this. 22:58 Don't wanna mishear this and say, 22:59 well, let's throw our hands up in the air and walk away. 23:01 The key here is to figure out 23:03 how to connect with the righteousness of God 23:06 and to receive that as your own. 23:08 How do you do that? 23:09 Because until you understand that, 23:11 you're rather dismissive, 23:12 and you're playing church, 23:15 in which case, you're miserable. 23:17 Or you're miserable, 23:18 because you're never going to be 23:19 good enough. 23:21 Thank God, we don't have to be good enough. 23:23 We can claim Christ as our own. 23:26 He is good enough. 23:28 And then He works in our lives to grow us, to sanctify us, 23:32 to prepare us more and more 23:33 and yet more for everlasting life. 23:35 Amen. 23:36 So I know, I'm going to reserve I wanna hear your story. 23:40 But I know how God got my attention. 23:42 How did he get yours? 23:45 I tried everything I could to be good enough, 23:48 at the same time as going through 23:50 some growing pains, career, in my life, 23:55 I was drifting further away from God, 23:57 knew I shouldn't, 23:59 I knew that meant not good things. 24:01 There was no way in the world 24:02 I could find a meaningful experience. 24:04 In my own church experience, I wasn't finding meaning. 24:09 Now, as a teenager, a group of us 24:11 from our Catholic Church, 24:12 we would visit the Anglican Church 24:15 and the Pentecostal Church and these other churches, 24:17 typically on Sunday evenings, 24:19 and we'd go to their prayer and praise times, 24:21 and we'd go to their services. 24:23 Well, that was meaningful, 24:25 but I was looking for truth because I had a church 24:29 where I figured the truth wasn't. 24:31 The dead people can't be in two places at once. 24:33 God cannot burn people forever and ever and ever. 24:37 Let's just be honest. 24:39 You shouldn't pray to dead saints. 24:43 Let's just have a reality check here. 24:46 Talk to God, even a child understands that. 24:49 So I wanted to find answers that made sense. 24:53 I wanted to find an experience 24:56 that was meaningful and answers 24:58 that made sense. 25:00 So I found some experiences that were kind of meaningful, 25:03 but never found the answers that made sense. 25:04 And what ultimately happened 25:07 was I have a brother 25:08 who sent me a copy of The Great Controversy. 25:12 He gave it to me once, 25:13 he gave it to me again, 25:15 by now I was living in London, England. 25:17 And I wrote to him, and I said, 25:20 that book you gave me, 25:22 I'm really searching 25:23 where do you think I could buy it? 25:25 And he sent me a third copy that 25:28 coincided with me walking out 25:30 of the Catholic Church in Ireland, 25:32 and saying to God out loud 25:33 as I looked up into the overcast, 25:36 Irish sky, I'm never going back to church again, 25:39 until you show me the truth. 25:40 Oh, yes. 25:42 And God likes us kind of challenges. 25:44 You pray a prayer like that, you better buckle up. 25:46 Amen. 25:47 'Cause God will show you the truth. 25:48 Amen. Yeah, so that's what happened. 25:50 I read that book and that was, it is over. 25:53 All right. 25:54 So how old were you when you became a... 25:57 I mean, obviously, you got into the Bible, 26:00 you weren't encouraged 26:01 to read the Bible much where you? 26:03 See, I grew up in a New Testament Church. 26:06 Oh, boy, I bet I'd read the New Testament 200 times. 26:10 But without the understanding of the Old Testament 26:12 which we just simply didn't read, 26:15 there was so much that went over my head. 26:19 But when God finally really got my attention, 26:24 and I knew He was calling me to full time ministry, 26:26 he said, come sit at My feet, 26:27 forget what you think, you know, I will teach you. 26:30 And you know, where He started me? 26:32 On a study of the sanctuary. 26:36 It was incredible, because He taught me, 26:41 I had just gotten Bible software as well. 26:44 So I could look up the Greek and Hebrew. 26:46 And I learned that the Ten Commandments 26:48 hadn't been nailed to the cross. 26:51 And, boy, I'll tell you that was a complete about face. 26:55 But I was seeking what you were seeking was, 27:01 I wanted to be righteous. 27:03 And I thought I never could be holy 27:05 as your heavenly Father is holy. 27:07 But let me give you this 27:09 because God really use this scripture. 27:12 It's Hebrews 11:7, It says, "By faith Noah," 27:17 from the Old Testament, Noah, 27:19 "being divinely warned of things not yet seen, 27:22 moved with godly fear, 27:23 he prepared the ark 27:25 for the saving of his household, 27:27 by which he condemned the world 27:29 and became heir of the righteousness 27:34 which is according to faith." 27:35 Whoa! 27:37 That was an eye-opener, 27:38 because suddenly I started looking 27:40 through the Old Testament 27:43 for this whole idea of righteousness by faith. 27:45 That's right. 27:46 Found out it began, you know, 27:48 with Noah and then Abraham in this covenant 27:51 that just keeps unfolding. 27:52 It was life changing, but it was coming to the Word. 27:56 That's right. 27:57 So you became a minister, 27:58 give us a little fast track 28:00 of how you came into the ministry? 28:02 Yeah, funny thing, my background was radio. 28:04 So I was used to talking for a living. 28:08 As a kid, you know, you have this, 28:11 this idea that maybe you'd be a priest. 28:13 I entertain that idea for about, 28:18 I was about 10, 5, 5 or 10 seconds, 28:23 I entertained that idea. 28:26 And I kind of wished I could, 28:28 but I knew I was never gonna be one of them guy. 28:30 Yeah. 28:31 No way, for a variety of reasons. 28:34 So I wondered about ministries as a kid 28:37 and then when I became a Bible believing Christian, 28:42 and I became a Seventh-day Adventist, 28:44 and what I do with the rest of my life, 28:45 I applied to law school. 28:47 They said, come on, come to law school, 28:48 I thought I could do that. 28:52 But God had other plans and while traveling, 28:56 I just kind of fell into ministry. 28:59 You know, I just fell into ministry. 29:01 I attended a training program. 29:04 They said, would you like to be an evangelist? 29:06 I said, oh, what? 29:07 This is a providential, 29:08 step by step directed by God and fall into ministry. 29:12 Oh, yeah. Be a what? 29:14 But I didn't wanna say yes, 29:18 because who do I think I am? 29:20 But I didn't wanna say no, because that would seem rude. 29:22 So I thought, well, if I can help, 29:27 and conducting evangelistic 29:28 series in a little town in Kentucky, 29:30 and was like, 29:31 that God really poured out His blessing, 29:33 and somebody evidently thought maybe this young man 29:36 has a future here. 29:37 I was married shortly after, and my wife 29:39 and I went on the road and full time, 29:42 evangelistic ministry and we segued from that 29:44 into pastoral ministry, we were so blessed, 29:47 wonderful churches. 29:49 Then I was happily minding my own business one day 29:51 in a wonderful church filled with fantastic people. 29:54 We loved it. 29:56 And I got a phone call. 29:57 Would you be interested in joining It Is Written? 30:02 Well, what do you think? 30:05 And both my boss, my conference president 30:08 and our head elder both said, we think you should do it. 30:11 Yeah. 30:13 I hadn't even been at the church very long. 30:15 It was such a good church. 30:16 And they said, "We hate to see you go, 30:18 but we think this is you." 30:20 And with the exception of one lady in the church, 30:24 basically everybody said, "You need to go do this." 30:27 Praise God. 30:29 And you know, God has blessed 30:30 in such an incredible way. 30:32 How long have you been president now? 30:33 For almost 11 years, you know? 30:35 Eleven years doesn't seem possible. 30:37 No, it doesn't, time's going by. 30:38 But what I appreciate about the gift that 30:40 God has given you is, 30:43 you have a special way of delivering. 30:45 If you've watched Pastor John 30:47 has a special way of delivering truths 30:51 that seem difficult that 30:53 some people make them difficult. 30:54 You make them simple, 30:56 and you do it in a humble attitude 30:59 and manner. 31:01 I think part of that is part of that's my radio background. 31:03 Okay. 31:04 When all you have is words, 31:06 and you need people to understand you, 31:09 you got to break concepts down to a place 31:11 where it's digestible, and people get it. 31:13 Yeah. 31:14 Part of it is my own background. 31:16 I don't need. 31:18 I need the truth, 31:19 and I need to be able to understand it. 31:21 Yes. 31:22 Another part of it too, perhaps, 31:23 is my cultural upbringing. 31:27 Look, I know sometimes 31:28 it makes you look good to use words 31:30 that are this long and theological concepts 31:33 that Jesus didn't say anything about feeding the giraffes. 31:37 He said, feed My sheep. 31:39 Amen. And so let's feed the sheep. 31:42 Another thing that I've learned, 31:45 and I'm not against theology or theologians, 31:47 you understand that? 31:49 And I say this carefully. 31:51 What I've learned that, the longer, Shelley, 31:53 the longer I'm in ministry, the longer I'm around, 31:56 the more I realize that people need less 32:00 of the chiastic structure of the Book of Revelation. 32:03 Exactly. 32:04 And more of the assurance of their salvation. 32:07 Yes. How can I have peace with God? 32:09 Yes. 32:10 Yesterday, I spoke with a dear lady 32:14 who's been in the church all her life. 32:17 She didn't have too many years left, 32:19 she really doesn't. 32:20 And she said, 32:22 I'm not sure I'm right with God. 32:24 Yes. 32:25 But, of course, she's right with God. 32:27 But she's in that place now that 32:28 she's wrestling because of this, 32:30 and that that's going on in the background in her life. 32:33 Now, I don't mean to oversimplify, 32:35 of course, there's a time for discussions 32:37 about A, B and C, 32:40 alpha, beta, 32:41 gamma and delta, you know, 32:43 sure there, that that's appropriate. 32:45 We are where we are today, because theologians, you know, 32:48 got their hard hats on, 32:50 and they and they picks their pick axes 32:52 and chiseled away at the in the quarry 32:56 of the Word of God, 32:57 and they found these wonderful gems for us. 32:59 Thank God for that. 33:00 But when I teach, 33:02 when I share when we produce TV programs, 33:05 we just want to get the message across. 33:06 Amen. 33:07 Want people to understand this, want something 33:09 that's going to be life changing. 33:10 What's the salvation issue? 33:11 Yeah, I once needed, my life changed. 33:14 And so I wanted to share the Word of God 33:16 in such a way that 33:17 if they get whatever they can reduce it 33:19 down to is going to have a life altering impact in the life. 33:22 You know, let me back up 33:24 because I want to say one thing about the chiastic structure. 33:29 That's the X shape of it, 33:32 how you get into words like recapitulation. 33:35 And we talk about the hermeneutical principles 33:39 by which, that just means 33:40 the method of interpretation. 33:42 What I will say, as God, 33:46 when God told me to forget 33:48 what I thought I knew and come, 33:50 sit at His feet, He would teach me. 33:52 He taught me the truth about the Ten Commandments, 33:56 the truth about the Sabbath. 33:58 I was so excited the first Sabbath I celebrated. 34:01 This was two years 34:02 before I knew anything about Adventism. 34:06 He taught me the truth of the state of the dead, 34:08 the truth about hell, 34:09 as I'm studying in the Greek, in the Hebrew, 34:12 and I realized, oh, you know, 34:14 hell is a place where people burn up. 34:17 I mean, we're gonna walk on their ashes. 34:20 But there was one thing I was begging for. 34:23 And what I didn't understand was prophecy, Revelation. 34:29 I was taught not to read Revelation. 34:33 And yet I peek and it'd say, 34:35 blessed is the one who hears these words. 34:37 That's right. 34:38 Blessed, you know, 34:39 and I'd think I'm missing a blessing. 34:41 And I'd get started in it. 34:43 Oh, John, I was so lost. 34:45 I could not understand the symbols. 34:47 I bought every, every book 34:52 that there was out there on prophecy, and they were all. 34:56 There's three ways of interpreting prophecy, 35:02 what Adventist our method is historicist. 35:06 And that means we believe that 35:09 prophecy is history written in advance. 35:12 And that basically, when history happens, 35:15 it's going to reveal the prophecy, 35:17 I mean, it's going to show us 35:18 for certain this is what it is. 35:20 We believe that there's an unfolding to it. 35:24 But that was popular during the Reformation. 35:28 It was, yes, it was. 35:29 Then suddenly the Counter Reformation 35:31 came from two Jesuit priests, 35:34 one came up 35:35 with the preterist view of Revelation 35:37 that this is all happened in the past, 35:39 don't need to worry about it. 35:40 One was a futurist view 35:42 where they lopped off a week from the Daniel time prophecy. 35:46 And they put a lot of things in the future. 35:49 All of that to say this, I was so confused. 35:53 Oh, you would be, that's what you can. 35:54 I was so confused. 35:55 And I thought, Lord, who do I believe? 35:57 And at that time, here, 36:00 I'm out teaching salvation by grace, 36:03 obedience by grace through faith 36:05 is God works in us to will and to do is good pleasure. 36:09 But I turned on 3ABN caught my attention, 36:12 and I found out by watching 3ABN, 36:16 that out of the 404 verses in Revelation, 36:19 what 278 plus are straight 36:23 from the Old Testament 36:24 and it's the Old Testament, 36:26 that's the key to all the symbols, 36:28 Daniel unlocks Revelation, 36:30 and I know how important you believe 36:32 the Three Angels' Messages are. 36:34 Tell us just what are the Three Angels' Message? 36:37 Why do we need to know them today? 36:39 Listen, the Three Angels' Messages 36:41 are really, really justification by faith, 36:44 but we'll back up from there. 36:46 When you get into the heart of the Book of Revelation, 36:49 Revelation Chapter 14, 36:52 "I heard I saw another angel fly 36:54 in the midst of heaven having the everlasting gospel." 36:56 So one thing we don't want to forget is that 36:58 the Three Angels' Messages are the gospel. 37:01 Amen. See, it's not a kind of gospel. 37:04 It's not an end time gospel. 37:05 It's not a special gospel. 37:08 It's the gospel, the everlasting gospel. 37:10 So we need to keep that front and center, 37:12 that's very important. 37:13 And then to flesh that out. 37:16 John gets into some specifics with us, 37:18 at least the angel gets into some specifics, 37:20 John wrote them down, "Fear God, 37:22 give glory to Him, 37:24 the hour of His judgment has come." 37:25 So the gospel in the context of earth's last days, 37:28 the judgment hour in which we're living now, 37:31 worship Him who made heaven and earth, 37:33 that was what you learned, 37:35 keep the commandments of God. 37:36 We are preparing now to stand in the presence 37:39 of a holy God without a mediator. 37:41 Don't talk about that too much. 37:43 We're getting already. 37:44 Yeah, but that's after the latter rain, 37:46 so in the sealing. 37:47 That's right. 37:49 We're getting ready now to live through 37:50 the very last days of this earth's history 37:53 and to be a demonstration of the power of God 37:54 in the lives of individuals. 37:56 First angel's message so is part of that, 37:58 remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy. 38:00 That's to worship Him who made heaven and earth, 38:03 and the seas and the fountains of waters. 38:05 See one of those quotes from the Old Testament 38:07 that you mentioned a moment ago. 38:08 Yes. 38:10 Second angel's message, Babylon has fallen, 38:12 get out of religious confusion, 38:14 get out of theological falsehood, 38:18 false teaching. 38:20 Third angel's message, 38:21 don't worship the beast 38:22 or receive the mark of the beast if you do it. 38:25 You've crossed the point of no return 38:28 and we understand what that mark of the beast is. 38:31 And in that what God is calling us to, 38:32 God doesn't call us... 38:33 Yeah. 38:35 Let's some people think 38:36 the mark of the beast is the vaccination. 38:39 So explain, the mark of the beast 38:41 is all about worship and choosing to follow God 38:44 or choosing to follow Satan. 38:46 It bears repeating, I'll say this and then leap on. 38:50 No one should be talking about a vaccine 38:52 and the mark of the beast. 38:54 It's, I know people do. 38:57 I was talking this morning, 38:58 a lady spoke to my colleague and said, 39:01 my friends are telling me I've got the mark of the beast. 39:03 This is madness. 39:07 So we'll go on from there. 39:09 The mark of the beast, you know, 39:12 several hundred years ago, 39:13 brilliant people who studied the Bible 39:15 came to the conclusion that that beast, 39:18 beast is simply a kingdom or a nation. 39:19 Yes. 39:20 So it's the mark of the kingdom. 39:22 Yes. 39:23 What's the kingdom with the mark? 39:26 Well, if you were to ask Martin Luther, Ulrich Zwingli. 39:30 John Huss, if you're to ask John Wycliffe, the Bible, 39:34 translator, even John Wesley, John Knox, 39:38 John is a good name for a reformer. 39:40 They were all part of the Protestant Reformation, 39:43 bringing the church back to the true Word of God. 39:47 They would all tell you that 39:49 that nation being spoken of was the papacy 39:51 of the Roman Catholic Church. 39:53 Yes. 39:54 Now today, if what you know of Catholicism 39:56 is Catholic Social Services and that kind priests 39:58 that you see at the post office from time to time 40:00 and a wonderful school and a hospital. 40:03 You might look at that and say, 40:04 Oh, that doesn't sound very fair. 40:06 But look beyond, look beyond that. 40:09 Really look to the heart of this thing and say, 40:11 what is it we're dealing with here? 40:13 You're dealing with a system 40:15 that has substituted truth for error, 40:19 or error for truth. 40:20 They've switched to a system 40:22 that has changed the commandments of God 40:24 and doesn't blush when you ask him about it. 40:26 A system that will tell you to pray to the dead, 40:29 rather than go to Jesus. 40:30 A system that says salvation 40:31 is found in the Roman Catholic Church. 40:35 I mean, really very, very powerful system. 40:39 I don't need to be mean or unkind. 40:41 But as you look into the Bible, this nation, this kingdom 40:45 can only be the papacy of the Roman Catholic Church. 40:48 They have a mark, a mark of their authority, 40:51 and you and I could take half an hour 40:53 or an hour or two hours to talk about 40:56 how we arrive at that. 40:57 But the shorthand is the mark, 41:00 the sign of the authority of the Roman Catholic Church. 41:03 Which they say themselves. 41:05 They claim, they changed 41:08 the commandments of God, therefore, 41:11 that's the sign that 41:12 we have authority in Christianity, 41:16 and in the world, and Christians agree with them 41:19 by accepting their mark and following along with that. 41:23 Why else would you be following a man made 41:27 version of the Ten Commandments? 41:29 Yes. 41:31 And if we believe that 41:32 love is the fulfilling of the law, 41:33 we wanna be sure that we get this right, 41:35 because we want to love God 41:37 and demonstrate that love in our lives. 41:39 It's important. 41:41 So those Three Angels' Messages help us to see 41:44 the last day issue and drive us to Jesus. 41:48 We don't learn this, 41:49 so that we can take rocks and throw them at people 41:51 who don't believe like us. 41:52 No. 41:53 We don't learn this so that 41:55 we can be rebels in a time of crisis. 41:56 We learn this, so that 41:58 bearing the truth in our hearts, 42:01 we can live for Christ, run to Christ, 42:04 and then share Jesus with others, 42:06 pointing them to the light and away from the dark. 42:09 I have to say, you brought a tool with you today. 42:14 And this is a book by Austin Cooke, 42:18 a fellow Kiwi from down under 42:20 and you knew him personally. 42:22 Yes, I do. 42:23 And he has written a book 42:24 Enduring Vision: Revelation Revealed 42:27 or this is a compilation of his work. 42:29 Kind of it. Yeah. 42:31 When I wore a younger man's clothes, 42:33 and I lived this far 42:38 from Elder Cooke, Pastor Cooke. 42:40 A number of us young people 42:42 would go to his home on a Sunday evening, 42:44 he'd hold court, my words, not his. 42:46 He'd sit in his chair, 42:48 and we would sit in the semi circle around him. 42:50 And we'd study the Book of Revelation. 42:52 And he'd have these, 42:54 they weren't pamphlets exactly booklets, 42:56 multicolored, a green one and a blue one 42:59 and a red one and a white one. 43:01 And those notes formed the basis 43:05 of this book an Enduring Vision. 43:08 We set with rapt attention, as he taught us 43:12 about this Christ of the Revelation, 43:15 and had us dig into the Book of Revelation 43:17 and made the book come alive. 43:20 And so I was really happy to see. 43:23 Pastor Cooke has passed away since, 43:25 but so happy to see this 43:26 book exists now, really those notes. 43:29 Pastor Cooke was a division evangelist. 43:32 He was a warhorse. 43:34 He would travel and preach, 43:36 and travel and preach and raise up churches, 43:38 and baptize people 43:40 and boldly proclaim the Word of God. 43:42 He was, you know, 43:43 from that earlier generation that 43:45 they were fearless and visionary. 43:49 So I love the book. 43:51 You know, what I don't want anyone to think is that 43:53 any book about Revelation. 43:56 We're gonna, this is called a verse by verse exposition. 44:01 You could call it a commentary. 44:03 It's a commentary. 44:04 I don't think anybody should say 44:06 that any commentary written by an uninspired human being 44:09 is perfect in every way. 44:13 But this one is pretty good. 44:14 It's really very good. 44:17 What oozes out of this book is Pastor Cooke's passion 44:21 for God and his passion for the Bible. 44:25 For Him, the Bible is not a dead letter. 44:29 Amen. 44:30 Is not something that's up for grabs. 44:32 You don't vote about it. 44:34 It's not subject to skepticism and doubt. 44:38 You don't start from a position of doubt with the Bible, 44:40 but from a position of certainty. 44:42 It represents God's best intentions towards you. 44:46 And so when he wrote this book, 44:48 you don't read it and say, 44:50 he doesn't seem convinced, 44:51 you don't read it and come away 44:53 saying, No, I'm not certain, 44:55 you read it and say God is great. 44:57 Jesus is my Savior, the Bible is everything, 45:00 the Word of God is sure. 45:02 It's inspired and inspiring work. 45:04 You know, unfortunately, 45:05 I have to tell you something funny. 45:07 In all transparency, 45:08 someone else was going to do today's interview 45:11 and so they had to go out of town and they said, 45:14 Shelley would you like to. 45:16 I said, oh, what a privilege this would be. 45:18 So this will give you the book. 45:20 And I got this book yesterday, 45:21 and I thought I was gonna read it before you got here? 45:25 Well, it's only 730 some odd pages. 45:27 Oh. 45:29 So I opened the book, 45:31 Ryan Day who is going to do the interview 45:33 said this is one of his favorite commentaries 45:36 and please understand what you're saying 45:38 there is like when we get to the sixth, 45:42 or the fifth trumpet, 45:43 there are this is by the historicist method, 45:47 it is one of the accepted 45:50 interpretations on the trumpets, 45:52 but there's different 45:54 interpretations on that area. 45:56 The main thing I like about this is, 45:59 you feel the love of God. 46:02 When I just opened it up, 46:03 it was page 227, 226, 46:09 it was talking about the sealing message, 46:12 the seal of the Holy Spirit, 46:15 the seal of the law, 46:16 which we find the seal in the Sabbath, 46:19 and the seal of redemption. 46:23 And he goes through 46:24 and he makes you stop and think and pull, 46:27 he pulls all these Bible verses together. 46:30 So it really was quite beautiful. 46:32 It really points you to salvation in Christ, 46:35 as revealed in the Book of Revelation. 46:37 Righteousness by faith. 46:38 That's right, not a collection of facts. 46:40 It's not a collection of dry historical data. 46:43 This is the book. 46:44 The Book of Revelation begins by telling us 46:47 it's the revelation of Jesus Christ. 46:49 And Pastor Cooke's book really reinforces that idea. 46:53 It's deep. 46:54 It's theologically deep, it's historically rich. 47:00 So you know, you read this, 47:01 and it makes the book, 47:03 one of the things I like about 47:04 is it makes the Book of Revelation very accessible. 47:07 It demystifies the book. 47:08 And I... 47:10 The few portions that I've read, 47:12 his writing style is engaging. 47:15 I don't feel like I have a theologian preaching me. 47:18 That's right. That's right. 47:19 It's something that I look forward to reading. 47:21 Yeah. 47:23 This is written by man whose life 47:25 was given to communicating the principles of the Bible. 47:29 His life was given to communicating Christ. 47:32 You know, as an evangelist, 47:33 if the audience doesn't get it, 47:36 if it doesn't sink in, 47:37 if it's not making sense, 47:39 if it's not resonating, 47:40 it will be a bit of a waste of time, 47:42 and he wrote like that understanding. 47:43 I got a message 47:45 that I want my readers to understand. 47:46 So it's accessible like that. 47:48 It's an exciting book to read. It is. 47:50 Yeah. So how do people get this book? 47:52 Well, numerous ways. 47:54 I think maybe the easiest way would be to contact us 47:57 at It Is Written because we sell it, 47:59 I know it's sold in other places, 48:00 but I honestly don't know, all of them, 48:02 or maybe even some of them. 48:04 But if somebody is looking for that web address, 48:07 ItIsWritten.shop 48:09 That'd be easy, ItIsWritten.shop 48:11 You spell that out instead of IIW, 48:13 do you spell it out, ItIsWritten.shop Yep. 48:17 Or just visit our website, ItIsWritten.com 48:20 Call us on the phone, email us however you want to, 48:22 however you want. 48:23 It's certainly worth reading worth looking at. 48:25 Now, you mentioned the trumpets. 48:27 Yeah, it's true. 48:28 You've got to keep in mind when Pastor Cooke was younger, 48:32 you know, there was a view 48:33 of the trumpets floating around that probably 48:36 isn't generally accepted today. 48:39 If you know that, you'll read that and say, 48:41 okay, that was the view then. 48:43 But I really want to stay with where we are today. 48:46 Elsewhere in the book, though, you're going to be just fine. 48:48 And I think it's okay, we don't read a commentary 48:51 because we believe that 48:53 every last thing in there was voiced by God. 48:57 We want the writer to do his or her very best. 49:02 And thankfully, where you might say, 49:05 you know, I think we've moved on from that. 49:08 It's not an area where you say, 49:10 oh, my salvation is at jeopardy, 49:12 or we're denying a fundamental belief 49:13 of the church, 49:15 or we are getting away from one of the essentials. 49:17 This is interpreting 49:19 some of the less clear aspects 49:24 of the trumpets, 49:25 and I'm able to look at that 49:27 with a little grace insert. 49:28 I know where he's coming from. 49:30 Yes. And it was the popular view. 49:32 What I do like, is you feel 49:35 the evangelist's heart in his writing 49:38 because it is going to give you 49:41 a lot of fullness to the message 49:45 because he is so solid on the word. 49:48 And he's bringing it together. 49:51 It's kind of like he's weaving together a fabric of love 49:55 with all of these various scriptures 49:57 in the areas, which I've read, 49:59 it's really been interesting. 50:01 This seal is also a guarantee of inheritance. 50:04 The seal of the spirit is sure 50:05 as I say one day we will inherit the kingdom. 50:07 I mean, this is an evangelist's heart, 50:09 a pastor's heart. 50:10 And he's saying, you know, 50:12 you can be as excited about this messages 50:16 I am because it's gonna change your life. 50:19 It's gonna... 50:20 Christ is gonna be revealed in your heart. 50:23 He gets into, of course, Revelation Chapter 13, 50:26 you're gonna be dealing 50:28 with the subject of the Antichrist. 50:30 Yes. 50:31 It's very clear, historically, 50:33 well supported, well fleshed out. 50:36 Revelation 12. 50:38 Immediately before that, we talk about the remnant. 50:40 There's no prevaricating, 50:42 no obfuscating, boom, 50:45 he hits it head on and unapologetically, 50:48 this is what we believe, this is what the Bible teaches. 50:51 I love that. Amen and amen. 50:53 It's him all the way. 50:54 And we just have to say we love you, Brother John. 50:57 We are just so glad that you came in. 51:00 And this has been a little bit unusual. 51:01 Just sit and chat. 51:03 We had no idea where we were going to go. 51:06 But I will say, we're gonna come back 51:09 for a closing comment, 51:10 but I want to say this before I forget it. 51:12 You know, sometimes people grow up and they said, 51:16 well, I wasn't taught that when I was a kid. 51:18 Get into the Word of God. Let God teach you. 51:21 God wants you to know the truth. 51:23 He's trying to reveal Himself to you. 51:26 You're a seeker. 51:28 I was a seeker. 51:29 And, boy, I'll tell you when you seek Him 51:31 with all your heart, 51:32 He guarantees He's gonna be found by you. 51:35 Well, don't go away. 51:36 We're going to news break 51:37 and we'll be right back for closing thought 51:40 with John Bradshaw. 51:43 If you would like to contact 51:44 or know more about It Is Written, 51:47 you can do so in the following ways. 51:49 You can write to them at PO Box 6, Chattanooga, 51:52 Tennessee 37401. 51:56 You can call them at (423) 362-5800 52:01 That's (423) 362-5800. 52:06 You can also visit their website, 52:08 ItIsWritten.com 52:10 That is, ItIsWritten.com 52:13 or send them an email at Info@iiw.org 52:18 That's info@iiw.org |
Revised 2021-11-18