Participants:
Series Code: TDY
Program Code: TDY220002A
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00:01 As you're well aware,
00:03 we're living in unprecedented times. 00:05 Join us now for Today special program. 00:12 I want to spend my life 00:18 Mending broken people 00:23 I want to spend my life 00:29 Removing pain Lord, 00:35 Let my words 00:39 Heal a heart that hurts 00:44 I want to spend my life 00:50 Mending broken people 00:55 I want to spend my life 01:00 Mending broken people 01:14 Hello, and welcome to another 3ABN Today program. 01:18 I'm Jason Bradley, and I'm so glad 01:19 that you've decided to join us. 01:21 We're going to be covering a very important topic. 01:24 It's a heavy one. 01:26 We're going to be talking about clergy sexual abuse. 01:29 And here to discuss that is the Hope of Survivors, 01:33 a wonderful ministry, and we have Jackie Jeldwyn. 01:38 Yes. Yes. 01:39 Now, tell me a little bit about that name 01:41 because that's your ministry name, correct? 01:43 It is. 01:45 I chose to use the ministry name 01:48 because that helps me be able to open up 01:52 more to my clients to serve them better. 01:55 And yet at the same time, 01:57 it protects innocent family members 02:00 from having to endure more humiliation and shame. 02:05 I just want to share everything 02:09 that may be of help to my clients. 02:11 Got you. And tell me your role briefly? 02:15 I serve as the team leader 02:18 for the pastors' wives division. 02:21 And we seek to support 02:27 the pastors' 02:28 wives when their husbands have surrendered to sin. 02:32 We'll talk more about that. Yes. 02:34 We're going to, definitely, dive deeper into that. 02:36 And sitting right next to you, we have Martin Weber. 02:40 And tell me a little bit about what you do 02:43 with The Hope of Survivors? 02:45 Well, for the past 14 years, I've been a volunteer. 02:51 I'd been a law enforcement chaplain. 02:56 And one of my colleagues, 02:58 I had to report him for sexual abuse 03:04 of a person he was called to serve. 03:08 That was tough, unfortunately, 03:11 in the mercy of God at the time. 03:15 My doctor supervisor had gotten her own doctorate 03:19 at Princeton University, 03:23 working with victims of religious sexual abuse. 03:26 And so I was able to get help from her in dealing 03:30 with this real-life issue in the field. 03:33 And then several years later, 03:36 I was giving a report of some of this. 03:39 And Steve and Samantha, 03:41 our founders of the Hope of Survivors, 03:44 asked me to join the team. 03:46 Yes. 03:47 And so for a while I was board chairman, 03:50 and as our founders have retired, 03:52 they asked me to serve as a president and chairman 03:56 of the organization, 03:57 working with this wonderful team here. 03:59 Amen. 04:02 And Shyleene Rosado-Rosero. 04:06 Rosado-Rosero. Yes. Did I pronounce that properly? 04:08 All right, tell me a little bit about what you do 04:11 with The Hope of Survivors? 04:13 Well, actually, I came across 04:15 with the Hope of Survivors here in 3ABN 04:19 when I met Samantha and Steve Nelson. 04:23 The interesting thing was that my English was very limited. 04:28 And for Samantha, 04:32 her Spanish was poor from high school. 04:35 So we believe that God direct our meeting 04:40 and we can understand each other at that time. 04:45 The Hope of Survivors gave me the opportunity 04:47 to work as a volunteer in 2008 04:53 for the present in the Latino division, 04:57 La Esperanza de los Sobrevivientes. 05:00 And I have the opportunity to work with victims 05:05 to support them, their spouse, 05:08 and also to educate leaders and church members. 05:12 Wow. So it sounds like you've been busy. 05:14 Yes. 05:16 Yes, and sitting next to you, we have your husband, 05:18 Carlos Rosero. 05:21 It's great to have you here, Carlos. 05:22 Thank you, likewise. 05:25 I'm the new member of the team now that Steve and Samantha 05:31 decided to 05:34 retire. 05:37 I'm working on the treasure area, 05:42 and technology too. 05:45 So those two areas are going to be my role 05:48 in The Hope of Survivors. 05:50 Nice and a very important role it is. 05:53 I too want to add. 05:55 He said that he's new in the ministry but since 2008, 06:00 I have his support and his help 06:04 in the La Esperanza de los Sobrevivientes 06:06 and in The Hope of Survivors. 06:08 Yes, that's correct. Praise God. 06:09 Yes, yes. 06:11 My stress level went down 50% 06:14 after he took the role of our technologies. 06:17 It's amazing. He spends time on the phone with me 06:20 and gets me all straightened out with that 06:23 and great with the... 06:25 as a treasurer as well. 06:27 So what a blessing to work with this team? 06:29 Absolutely, I was just going to say that. 06:30 It's a tremendous blessing. 06:32 And before we dive deeper, 06:34 we are going to be blessed in song by Hope Vasquez. 06:38 And she's singing a song entitled Blessings. 07:01 We pray for blessing 07:05 We pray for peace 07:10 Comfort for family Protection 07:14 While we sleep 07:18 We pray for healing 07:23 Prosperity 07:26 We pray for Your mighty hand 07:30 To ease our suffering 07:35 And all the while 07:39 You hear each spoken need 07:44 Yet love is way too much 07:47 To give us lesser things 07:51 'Cause what if your blessings Come through raindrops 07:56 What if Your healing comes through tears 08:01 What if a thousand sleepless nights 08:05 Are what it takes to know You're near 08:11 And what if trials of this life 08:16 Are Your mercies 08:17 In disguise 08:27 We pray for wisdom 08:31 Your voice to hear 08:35 We cry in anger 08:37 when we cannot feel You near 08:43 We doubt Your goodness 08:48 We doubt Your love 08:51 As if every promise from Your Word 08:56 Is not enough 08:59 And all the while 09:04 You hear each desperate plea 09:08 And long as we have faith 09:11 To believe 09:16 'Cause what if your blessings Come through raindrops 09:20 What if Your healing comes through tears 09:24 What if a thousand sleepless nights 09:29 Are what it takes to know You're near 09:35 And what if trials of this life Are Your mercies 09:41 In disguise 09:47 When friends betray us 09:52 When darkness seems to win 09:55 We know that pain reminds this heart 10:00 That this is not 10:02 This is not our 10:04 Home 10:11 It's not our 10:13 Home 10:20 'Cause what if your blessings Come through raindrops 10:26 What if Your healing comes through tears 10:31 What if a thousand sleepless nights 10:35 Are what it takes to know You're near 10:40 And what if my greatest disappointments 10:46 Or the aching of this life 10:50 Is the revealing of a greater thirst 10:55 This world can't satisfy 11:01 And what if trials of this life 11:07 The rain, the storms, the hardest nights 11:14 Are your mercies 11:16 In disguise 11:37 What a beautiful song, 11:38 and so many things to be thankful 11:40 for God's many blessings. 11:43 I want to dive into this heavy topic. 11:47 And I guess my first question 11:49 would be why do some pastors 11:52 become sexual predators? 11:55 Most pastors have never intended to do 12:01 that such a thing. 12:03 Now, there are sociopaths 12:08 that are evil at heart. 12:10 And they use the work of God 12:13 to fleece the sheep in this evil way, 12:17 and there are some in their category. 12:22 But most guys, 12:25 they want to be faithful husbands 12:29 and faithful to their calling 12:32 but then they get busy. 12:35 And some children come along 12:38 and things get a little stressed 12:41 and they meet someone in their congregation, 12:44 who might comfort some counsel. 12:46 And there's a bond, 12:49 perhaps, formed there 12:51 and which is fine so far. 12:56 But Steve and Samantha 13:00 recommend that I always practice that. 13:04 I don't do counseling with... 13:06 I don't think pastors do counseling. 13:09 It's one thing to have an initial conversation, 13:11 problem gets identified. 13:14 When I was out in Roseville, 13:18 California we had a licensed counselor come every Wednesday, 13:23 for a minimum fee of $25. 13:25 People could spend an hour with him 13:27 and talk through their issues, 13:28 which helped me free to be a law enforcement chaplain. 13:32 And also protected my relationship 13:36 with congregants 13:39 from being going into areas 13:44 where it shouldn't be. 13:45 So in other words, 13:46 you established an extra set of boundaries? 13:49 Yes, sure. 13:51 So I mean, a person doesn't have to be evil 13:54 just in normal relation to their attractions. 13:58 But there's something about in church, 14:00 we open our hearts, we worship, 14:03 we talk about our deepest feelings. 14:05 And that's a wonderful thing, 14:06 to be honest to God and honest with each other 14:09 but there's also vulnerability inherent in that. 14:14 Now, three churches that I've pastored my predecessors 14:18 had been abusers, 14:21 clergy sexual abusers, 14:23 three of the 11 churches where I pastored. 14:26 And so the first couple of times 14:29 I was young in my 20s. 14:31 I didn't really know what to do. 14:33 I wasn't aware of it and just tried my best 14:35 to work with the people I knew had been hurt. 14:39 And the third time... 14:45 that's when my supervisor, 14:48 who had done her own work, 14:49 she was able to mentor me. 14:52 And it was very different then, 14:53 and I was able to help hold 14:59 the perpetrating pastor accountable. 15:04 And how did you go about holding 15:07 the perpetrating pastor accountable? 15:10 Well, the women 15:14 who had been wronged by this man, 15:19 I asked if they would be interested 15:21 in meeting together with their husbands and me. 15:25 Yes. 15:26 And so we talked for an hour or two and I said... 15:30 First, I apologized on behalf 15:33 of the profession of ministry 15:36 that they had to suffer like this. 15:39 I mean, it wasn't their fault and, 15:45 because the clergy pastor 15:47 is always responsible if something goes wrong, 15:52 just like in a school or any kind of workplace 15:56 or medical practice. 16:00 First, do no harm is when I worked in hospital 16:03 as a chaplain, the Hippocratic Oath. 16:04 And so in the ministry, 16:07 first do no harm before you think about preaching, 16:09 before you think about visiting, 16:11 discipling, first do no harm. 16:14 And so I explained how this pastor got off 16:18 to a good start but obviously, 16:20 we're having this meeting because he became 16:24 a predator. 16:28 There wasn't necessarily a moment where he say, 16:30 "I'm going to be a predator." 16:31 It just you're slipped in, you know? 16:34 And so, I said, "So you've suffered wrongly. 16:39 What can I do as your present pastor 16:41 that you might find helpful?" 16:43 So he said, "Well, we'd love to confront him." 16:46 And so I invited him. 16:49 He was at somewhere else 16:51 at a different part of the country and he came. 16:56 And I said, "This is going to be rough. 16:58 These women and their husbands are going to be real." 17:02 And they spoke out their pain and they confronted him 17:04 and he listened. 17:05 Wow. And tears were shed. 17:11 I experienced them as being sincere tears. 17:13 I don't think this man was in any way sociopathic. 17:17 He just allowed himself to slip into sin and forgot 17:21 who he was and who he wasn't. 17:24 He was their shepherd not their lover. 17:27 And so there, actually, was quite a bit of healing 17:32 out of that. 17:33 But this situation is so rare as to be almost... 17:37 usually the perpetrator will so busy defending himself. 17:41 He'll never show up. 17:43 And I was going to bring that out that, 17:45 you know, it is interesting 17:47 that he did take the step of showing up 17:49 in front of their husbands, in front of... 17:52 like that. 17:53 That was a huge step in that reconciliation process 17:58 so that's good that some healings able to take place. 18:02 I think it's also important to point out 18:04 that he wasn't just like, inherently evil, 18:08 or he didn't just say, "Oh, I'm going to be a predator," 18:11 because that shows that people can slip into that. 18:14 Yes. All right. 18:16 So let's talk about how pastoral predators 18:19 groom their victims? 18:23 It's an insidious process. 18:28 First, they might say to a person 18:32 that they find themselves attracted to say, 18:37 "You seem to really love the Lord. 18:39 And I experienced you as a person that has talent 18:43 and the church would so much be able 18:47 to use your talent in ministry. 18:51 I have a limited amount of time set aside 18:55 to disciple members directly. 18:57 Would you be interested in that? 18:59 We can meet in my office and talk 19:01 and then we could go out 19:05 and visit people together." 19:07 And so the first time... 19:13 I'm just speaking, 19:14 and this is not a particular experience but just general. 19:18 A generalization, yes. Yes, okay. 19:19 So the first time and driving back so, 19:23 "How did you think about that?" 19:25 And of course, her heart is full of joy 19:27 because she's been able to minister 19:29 and she's honored to do it with the pastor, 19:31 the second time, "Oh hey, let's stop at Starbucks 19:35 and debrief a little bit." 19:38 The third time, "Oh, you know, I forgot my Bible. 19:42 It's at the house." 19:45 And so they wind up at his house, 19:48 "Oh, would you like to come in?" 19:50 And this is the type 19:52 of gradual incremental evil 19:58 that comes in. 20:00 Now, for a pastor to be that strategic, 20:04 this is beyond the phase of anyone just kind of, 20:08 just slipping into this thing. 20:10 They're evil at that point. 20:14 But if they have talent, 20:19 and they know how to speak 20:21 and tell stories and but... 20:25 So there's some manipulation that occurs? Yes. 20:29 Now, again, a person could be entirely innocent. 20:36 I remember one time for me. 20:38 My daughter invited a friend over, 20:41 my wife cooked a nice meal 20:43 and afterward our cats were frolicking 20:45 so we were just joking about the cats. 20:48 And I was talking about a book 20:50 I wanted to write about a cat Louis that we had. 20:52 Louis goes to Maui, 20:54 spiritual lessons for cat lovers. 20:56 And so my daughter's friend 21:00 was very... 21:02 She was laughing and laughing and so I told more stories. 21:06 And it was just really... 21:11 a great social experience on the surface 21:14 until there was a card 21:17 on my desk in the office 21:20 that invited me into an inappropriate type 21:25 of situation, very cleverly, 21:29 but you know... 21:31 So I brought it home and showed my wife, 21:33 showed to Darlene and she's, 21:35 "How could you be that way?" 21:37 And I said, "Actually, 21:40 I should have not been so jovial there. 21:44 She connected with that, 21:46 and I knew she thought it was funny." 21:48 And I don't have the luxury 21:52 of just being another person. 21:55 I'm the pastor. I have to tone myself down. 21:58 I have to hold myself back. 22:00 So in my mind, I was just having fun with the cats, 22:02 my daughter and my wife was there. 22:04 And I had to basically educate my wife that "Hey, 22:09 you were there and you didn't even see... 22:13 I didn't intend... 22:15 You would have caught it 22:18 but this person was vulnerable." 22:22 And so, in that particular case, 22:26 we're able, my wife and I contacted her, 22:32 the person, the young lady, 22:34 and asked if we could go with her mother 22:37 to see a counselor. 22:38 The four of us, my wife, myself, she and her mother, 22:41 and we did, a licensed counselor. 22:42 Nice. 22:44 And there was a beautiful resolution 22:48 of that situation that really... 22:53 But that's exactly the type of situation 22:56 that a pastor that means well. 22:59 And I can say it, I meant well. 23:03 Pastor doesn't have the privilege 23:05 of just hanging... 23:08 You just can't be hanging out with people. 23:10 We're always on duty. 23:12 We're never off duty. 23:14 Yes, 24/7. 23:16 You know it's good that you saw the signs. 23:18 You noticed the signs at the early stages, 23:22 and you took a shift in direction, 23:24 you know, to rectify the situation, right? 23:29 I know with this particular type of thing 23:33 there's a lot of collateral damage that occurs. 23:36 And so, Jackie, I want to talk to you for a moment 23:39 and find out your role 23:42 because you're the wife support services. 23:45 You're part of that team, 23:47 so tell us a little bit about that? 23:50 Well, maybe we could have at the beginning 23:54 our graphic that just gives a real quick summary 23:58 of what our Pastors' Wives 24:01 Division seeks to... 24:04 Yes. 24:06 The way it seeks to serve. 24:09 You see, we have here someone 24:14 that you admire 24:19 is devastated by her pastor husband's 24:23 surrender to sin 24:26 and we're here to help. 24:29 That's it in a nutshell. 24:32 And to take from where Martin 24:38 so eloquently spoke, 24:41 the Pastors' Wives Division 24:46 gets a call from a pastor's wife, 24:50 who has discovered her husband's situation. 24:55 The reality, often it is a total shock. 25:00 The pastor who surrenders to sin, 25:04 his whole persona is caught up in his image 25:08 of spirituality, 25:10 and shepherdship 25:12 and so often his wife is clueless. 25:17 If his wife does have any idea, 25:20 usually, he has couched this situation 25:26 whatever it may be, 25:27 with deflection and blame of someone else. 25:32 From her perspective, 25:35 the pastors' wives that call us 25:39 really deeply care about their calling 25:44 to be a pastors' 25:47 wives. Sometimes they are led 25:51 in their human feelings 25:54 to enabling 25:58 because they see well what can happen 26:03 to their husband's livelihood, 26:06 what can happen to themselves. 26:09 They will typically, 26:12 reality is they're going to experience a lot of shame, 26:16 a lot of humiliation if they do the right thing. 26:21 And that right thing is making sure 26:25 that the reality is reported 26:29 to their husbands' superiors. 26:33 And in most cases, 26:34 there's an element of sexual sin 26:37 that's involved that doesn't have to be. 26:42 There was a church pastor when I was a teenager, 26:45 who ended up in prison for running drugs 26:47 across the Texas Mexico border, 26:52 so it doesn't have to be a sexual issue. 26:55 Yeah. Let me ask you this question. 26:58 Should she go through her husband first 27:01 and talk to her husband and say, 27:02 "You're going in the wrong direction 27:05 and I do not support what you're doing?" 27:07 Should she address him first? 27:10 What are your thoughts? 27:12 Often, 27:13 but I would put an exception there. 27:18 She needs to look carefully at the situation, 27:22 especially in these areas 27:24 when there is infidelity going on. 27:30 There's often domestic abuse 27:33 in the pastor's marriage. 27:37 So if she is not confident 27:41 that she will be physically safe in doing so, 27:45 she should take the necessary steps 27:48 to protect her safety 27:51 and then get supporters with her 27:55 before he is confronted. 27:57 Got you. 27:58 So that would always be an element. Yes. 28:01 What do you think is one of the entering wedges 28:06 with this type of situation? 28:07 Do you think that, you know, 28:09 maybe they've slipped into pornography, 28:11 or what do you think about? 28:13 Well, that's an interesting question 28:16 because in my experience, 28:18 there is no greater connection 28:24 between the main mission of The Hope of Survivors, 28:29 which is to support victims of clergy sexual abuse, 28:34 and our Pastors' Wives Division, 28:36 which is to help the pastor's wife 28:40 when her husband has fallen into sin. 28:43 There's no greater connection than porn. 28:46 Porn using pastors, they are so frankly, 28:50 so many porn using pastors out there. 28:55 And just like Martin 28:57 so eloquently stated, 29:01 they don't necessarily start out 29:05 even using porn. 29:07 They don't necessarily start out as domestic abusers. 29:12 They don't necessarily start out as predatory pastors. 29:17 But porn is so mentally 29:21 and emotionally and spiritually searing 29:25 and destructive 29:28 that it turns a user, 29:31 whether male or female, 29:34 it turns them into a different person. 29:39 It just turns them inside out. 29:43 So it's almost like someone who's drinking alcohol, 29:47 and how their brain chemistry changes. 29:50 Absolutely, Jason. 29:52 It can take a person of formerly of integrity 29:56 and turn them into a habitual liar. 29:59 Yeah. 30:00 And pseudo-repentance is a big issue with porn. 30:04 It's so easy to hide and cover up. 30:09 Yeah. That's a huge issue. 30:13 I want to come to you and talk about operations. 30:17 What services do you provide? 30:20 Well, The Hope of Survivors provides emotional 30:23 and spiritual support by email and phone, 30:28 and it's completely free. 30:30 Oh, wow. That's beautiful. 30:32 It's nonprofit, correct? It's nonprofit. 30:34 And we operate here in United States 30:37 but also in Canada, Australia and South Africa. 30:42 Wow. 30:43 So this is a huge operation with a lot of moving parts. 30:46 Yes. 30:47 And I want to mention that South Africa, 30:50 they set up to help all kinds of victims 30:54 for different types of abuse. 30:56 Okay, so like domestic violence and things of that nature? 31:00 Exactly. Wow! 31:02 So yes, so you guys stay pretty busy. 31:05 Carlos, you're involved in the technical aspect. 31:09 Yes, I do. 31:10 Actually, I met the ministry 31:12 while I was working here in 3ABN as part 31:16 of the engineering team IT. 31:19 I'm part of the IT staff. 31:23 I met Steve and Samantha, 31:24 and I started knowing about the ministry. 31:29 And my wife being a counselor at that time, 31:34 she needed to do some hours 31:37 so that's how Shyleene got involved. 31:41 And at first, 31:47 to me it was a little questionable 31:51 the type of ministry. 31:55 I was born in the church. 31:58 I'm third generation Adventist. 32:02 And to me, it was very shocking. 32:05 I was in denial 32:08 that doesn't happen in our church. 32:11 And after 32:14 time pass, 32:17 I started hearing situations 32:21 where it changed my mind. 32:23 I learned why is abuse are not just an affair. 32:27 Why is an imbalance? 32:31 Why we can say... 32:37 it's not just a relationship 32:41 that I had with someone 32:43 because THE Pastor has an authority. 32:48 And it changed my perspective 32:50 how I view The Hope of Survivors, 32:53 and now I'm fully committed to that. 32:58 And that's how I'm using my skills, 33:02 my technical skills. 33:04 I use, just helping on their website. 33:08 By the way, the website has a very good information 33:12 and is our entry point to contact the ministry. 33:17 So they can see phone numbers, 33:20 email, they can access 33:23 and then they can see all of the information 33:26 that we provide to them. 33:29 And the website has been updating 33:32 with fresh information every time, 33:36 and that's part of my role. 33:38 I will be updating also, implementing new stuff. 33:42 We have new project 33:44 that we want to do add. 33:48 We've started talking about 33:51 creating a new one right, 33:56 the virtual academy? 33:58 Oh, nice. 33:59 Yes, and that would be one of the services 34:01 that we want to provide. 34:03 Nice. 34:04 And we like 34:09 to seek more funds 34:13 to get that done. 34:16 And I have a graph that if we can show, 34:21 it shows our projects that we have come up for this year. 34:27 If you can see that, that pie chart is divided 34:31 in four categories. 34:36 We have conferences, 34:38 that's where we want to spend our resources, 34:42 and also the Virtual Learning Academy 34:45 that's something brand new that we want to develop. 34:48 And also, we have the website 34:50 and all of that technology area as another category, 34:55 and the social media. 34:57 Nowadays, social media is very important. 34:59 Yes. 35:00 And on the graph, we saw that we have some percentages. 35:05 That's how much we have funded, 35:09 how much money we have funded. 35:11 But it's not saying 35:15 what is the amount 35:18 or the allotment for that. 35:22 And it's very important 35:24 that we can get assistance. 35:29 Yes, absolutely to get those things going 35:32 because this is a very important work. 35:35 I want to transition a little bit 35:37 back to the pastors 35:40 and what should they do 35:43 when they find themselves sexually attracted to a member? 35:47 Pastors just need to have 35:51 to suffer awareness in honesty 35:54 to come to their senses 35:57 and first confess to God. 36:00 "Search me, O God, and know my heart. 36:01 See if there be any wicked way in me, 36:04 lead me to the way of everlasting." 36:06 And then having an accountability partner, 36:08 maybe in their Local Ministerial Association, 36:11 whereby the two of them can go together and say, 36:14 "Hey, hold me accountable. 36:17 Come ask me how I'm doing," 36:19 and have that going on. 36:21 And it relieves a wife a burden of having 36:25 to be suspicious if she knows her husband 36:29 is in an accountability association and get counseling, 36:33 licensed professional counseling. 36:35 And also, not to think 36:40 that scolding themselves is the way out of this. 36:44 Grace, sin shall not have dominion over you 36:47 because you're not under law but under grace. 36:49 And it's a sense of God's love. 36:52 And, "Oh, God, how could I do that when You love me? 36:58 I need to love You. 36:59 And I need to love Your people. 37:00 Jesus, You said, feed the sheep. 37:02 You've called me to be a shepherd, 37:03 not a wolf in sheep's clothing." 37:05 So just that fundamental honesty and accountability. 37:08 Absolutely. 37:10 How does the congregation unwittingly enable 37:14 pastoral predators? 37:15 Congregations always tend to be bipolar, 37:17 either making a hero out of their pastor. 37:22 They love the way he brings the word week after week, 37:25 you know, 37:27 and so there's this hero status going on. 37:33 On the other hand, congregations can, 37:36 they can beat up on their pastor, 37:37 go to the other extreme. 37:39 And he feel so isolated 37:41 that he might resort to this or try to find 37:45 some solace in some relationship 37:48 within the congregation, so, yeah. 37:51 Got you, and how can you help 37:53 a victim of CSA? 37:58 Good question. All right. 38:01 Actually, our ministry, 38:03 The Hope of Survivors have a program called 38:06 Hope and Healing Conference. 38:08 Nice. 38:09 And the purpose of this conference 38:11 is to provide support and help to the victim 38:15 that have been abused by a member of the clergy 38:20 at any denomination. 38:21 So we provide this service around the world 38:26 and any domination, like I said. 38:28 And we cover topic like, 38:33 why is this abuse? 38:35 Like Carlos said about the imbalance, 38:38 why is this an imbalance? 38:40 And what else do we cover in this conference? 38:44 Well, several of the speakers, 38:48 typically at The Hope and Healing Conferences 38:50 share their stories. 38:52 And that's part of what makes the experience 38:56 so powerful 38:58 because the attendees are hearing previous victims 39:03 share their stories. 39:05 And those stories are unbelievably similar 39:09 and so that is such a powerful experience for victims. 39:14 It really helps lift that burden of shame and disgrace. 39:18 And I have a role as the pastor to explain 39:21 the grooming process, 39:22 to look them in the eyes and say, 39:24 "This was not your fault 39:25 if the pastor had been doing his job properly, never... 39:29 you wouldn't be sitting there. 39:31 No matter what your attractions may be 39:33 or I've been to him or whatever. 39:36 He needs to keep it kosher, 39:38 that relationship kosher just like in business, 39:41 in educational and medical fields, 39:43 same way in the church all the more 39:45 so because we have a Holy God that we serve." 39:50 Amen. 39:51 Another topic that we address is how to start over 39:55 because a lot of a victim don't know when, 39:58 where and how the church 40:03 can respond is very important. 40:06 And sometimes, most of the time 40:09 church victimized the person that is really a victim. 40:14 And, yes, so... 40:18 So how can they support 40:22 the victims in that particular instance, the congregation? 40:26 One thing that comes to my mind 40:28 that I've seen failed happen 40:32 most often is the church 40:38 needs to do a thorough 40:42 and transparent investigation 40:45 so that the perpetrator's actions 40:51 can be documented and dealt with. 40:53 And that helps validate the victim's experience. 40:58 So often the investigations, which take place, 41:03 are really more 41:04 how can we sweep this under the rug. 41:08 Covered up. 41:11 What would you say are some of the challenges 41:14 that you all face in being a part 41:18 of this ministry? 41:21 I'd say resources. 41:24 Yes, we need resources in every area, 41:28 financially, personnel, 41:32 like volunteers to help us. 41:35 And also, the main one is a prayer. 41:40 So we want everyone to pray for our ministry 41:45 and for pastors, 41:47 their ministerial area, 41:52 so they cannot fall 41:54 into this devastated situation. 41:58 For sure. 41:59 I believe that if we educate ourselves 42:04 we can prevent it, so a lot of education, 42:08 and as like Carlos said, we need resources. 42:12 So educate our church, 42:14 our leader help to prevent 42:19 this type of abuse. 42:22 Shyleene, she supervises as our CEO. 42:26 She supervises a team of wonderful volunteers, 42:29 recently added a licensed social worker, 42:31 and an attorney who will, without cost, 42:36 counsel victims because you can be sure 42:39 that the predators have access to attorneys 42:42 and enabling church organizations certainly do. 42:46 And so we come to the side 42:48 of these devastated victims 42:52 and their families and help them 42:57 get the help they need. 42:59 There is one, 43:00 something in the National News situation. 43:04 We offered to help the victims 43:08 to be there for them 43:10 and just be what they needed 43:15 in this situation, and it takes a lot have resources 43:19 for some of these. 43:21 And they are devastated financially 43:23 as well as every other way 43:24 so we really appreciate funding that comes in. 43:28 Absolutely. 43:29 And we do need volunteers to the Pastors' Wives Division. 43:33 It's a tall order for a pastor's wife, 43:39 a former pastor's wife to 43:41 urge someone 43:45 to be a shepherdess 43:48 and being exercise that courage 43:51 to do what they need to do in this situation, 43:55 and of course offer support in an area 43:58 that we have experienced our own pain. 44:03 How have you seen the faith of the victims impacted 44:09 as a real of what took place? 44:12 In this Hope and Healing Conferences, 44:15 there's a point where it's almost a switch 44:18 gets flipped in their hearts 44:20 from being understood for the first time. 44:26 I'm not crazy. I'm not evil. 44:29 I intended well and he indeed was to blame 44:32 without trying to send them 44:36 into hell just to be... 44:39 If he had been doing his job, 44:41 I would not be sitting in this room. 44:43 And a wonderful thing is we invite the husbands too, 44:47 who couldn't understand why did their wife... 44:50 Why did my wife get sucked into this thing? 44:53 And they need to hear from a clergy, 44:58 it was not her fault. 45:01 So I'm sure that there are a lot of testimonies. 45:04 What are some testimonies that you can share 45:06 while protecting the privacy of the individuals? 45:10 There's this scripture Psalm 30 where God said that... 45:14 David said, "He turned my mourning into dancing." 45:18 To see the sadness, the sorrow, the oppression, 45:22 the isolation. 45:23 To see the hope, the hope of survivors, 45:26 their hope spring up in their lives. 45:29 To see the joy, 45:31 to see them post on their Facebook pages, 45:35 just they're back in life. 45:37 They are happy in Jesus again. 45:42 Healing through Christ, yes. 45:45 Also, there we work 45:47 with non-Christian denominations as well. 45:50 There was a Buddhist lady I was speaking to, 45:54 who had been molested by the clergy. 45:59 And I explained grace, 46:02 and she just burst out in tears, 46:05 just right there on the phone and just burst out in tears. 46:08 And so just their burden of relief, 46:14 the burden gone and relief coming in 46:17 as their mourning turned into dancing of the Spirit 46:20 as it were. 46:21 Yes. 46:22 Now, I remember testimony that Carlos have 46:27 when we actually started moving on corporation, Texas. 46:32 And Carlos was in the post office... 46:36 Yeah, I was picking up 46:39 all of the boxes that arrived. 46:42 And it was big amount of boxes 46:46 so they made me move my vehicle 46:50 to the back while all of the trucks come in. 46:52 Wow! 46:53 So the lady was helping me and she said, 46:57 "What are you selling?" 46:58 And I said, "Well, we are not selling. 47:01 We are not an online business. 47:05 This is our ministry, 47:07 our organization that is relocating from California, 47:12 Wyoming to here, to Texas." 47:16 And she started getting quiet, "And what is about?" 47:20 I said, "Well, we deal with helping victims 47:24 being abused by the clergy." 47:28 And she got quiet. 47:29 She started handing me more boxes and she said, 47:34 "Well, I want to say thank you 47:37 because you're doing a good job 47:41 or good deed, and this is so needed. 47:44 I'm here in Texas because I was abused." 47:48 And she moved from a different state. 47:53 And so this is very... 47:58 I'll say it, the Holy Spirit 48:01 for divine intervention here. 48:04 One of the boxes was opened 48:07 and I just saw a brochure and a book, 48:12 the book that Samantha wrote so I gave it to her. 48:17 And she was very thankful. 48:22 And we didn't exchange numbers or anything like that 48:26 but I just left all of the information 48:29 on the book and on the pamphlet, 48:30 and the Lord will do His job. 48:33 But to me, it was interesting. 48:38 It was amazing that I just met someone 48:43 where I was not expecting 48:45 that suffer from clergy abuse. 48:49 That was divine providence. 48:51 I want to leave with my testimony. 48:55 And Luke 22:27 said, 48:58 "But I am among you as one who serve." 49:02 For me, I want to follow Jesus' example. 49:07 And I want to serve Him 49:09 every day with my family, with my neighbors 49:13 and also through The Hope of Survivors. 49:16 And I just want to say that we don't know 49:21 where the victims are but wherever you are, 49:26 The Hope of Survivors is here to support emotionally 49:29 and spiritually. 49:31 Amen. It's my testimony every time. 49:34 I just wake up, I want to serve God, 49:37 and The Hope of Survivors gave me this opportunity. 49:40 Yes, we are respectfully here for our clients. 49:45 Yes, yes. 49:48 I want to just, kind of, recap the needs 49:51 because in a little while, 49:52 we're going to go to the address role 49:54 and show how people can help 49:56 some of these wonderful projects 49:58 that you have going on. 49:59 But let's just recap the needs a little bit. 50:04 Carlos said a prayer partner for the organization, 50:09 the directors, the volunteers, 50:12 and the victims also. 50:15 Yes. 50:17 We need a lot of victim support, 50:19 like Jackie said, and the wife ministry, 50:23 and the Wives' Division 50:26 and also with the Home Ministry, 50:30 like the director of marketing 50:35 to find some fundraising. 50:40 What else, translation? Yes. 50:43 Help with translation 50:44 because our website have different language. 50:47 So if they click we have in Portuguese... 50:52 Yeah, several languages. 50:54 There are long list of languages on there, yes. 50:56 So we like to... 50:58 If you have experience 51:02 or you have a skill on technology, 51:06 just approach to us. 51:09 And also the funds, 51:12 with the funds we can achieve a lot of things, 51:17 projects that we have. 51:18 We continue having conferences 51:22 that we like to continue attending, 51:25 and we do transparency 51:30 and accountability on the managing 51:32 of our donations. 51:34 And that's so crucial. 51:36 You know that being transparent, 51:38 being open with the funds 51:40 and showing that you're being good stewards 51:42 that is very important. 51:43 Well, we're going to take a quick break. 51:45 We want you to know how you can get in touch, 51:47 how you can support this wonderful ministry, 51:50 and we'll be right back. 51:52 If you would like to contact or know more about 51:54 The Hope of Survivors, 51:56 you can do so in the following ways. 51:58 You can write to them at 4245, 52:01 Redbird Lane East, 52:03 Burleson, Texas 76028-7951. 52:08 You can call them at 866-260-8958. 52:14 That's 866-260-8958. 52:19 You can visit their website at thehopeofsurvivors.org 52:23 That's thehopeofsurvivors.org 52:27 or send them an email 52:28 at help@thehopeofsurvivors.org 52:32 That's help@ thehopeofsurvivors.org |
Revised 2022-02-10