Participants:
Series Code: TDY
Program Code: TDY220054A
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00:04 I want to spend my life
00:09 mending broken people. 00:15 I want to spend my life 00:20 removing pain. 00:25 Lord, let my words 00:31 heal a heart that hurts. 00:36 I want to spend my life 00:41 mending broken people... 00:46 I want to spend my life 00:52 mending broken people. 01:07 Hello and welcome, friends, 01:09 to another program of 3ABN Today. 01:12 I'm your host, Pastor James Rafferty, 01:14 and I have two special guests with me today 01:16 who are doing a vital work - a powerful work for God - 01:20 in the continent of Africa in the country of The Congo. 01:24 I have with me Pr. George Lee. 01:26 Pastor Lee, good to have you with us. Good being here. 01:29 And I also have Pastor Thomas Ongasa. 01:32 Thank you. It's good to have you here, Pastor Thomas. 01:36 Thank you Pastor James. We have a very special program 01:38 today. We're going to be looking at the ministry 01:40 entitled Train Them 2 Fish. 01:43 Train Them 2 Fish. 01:44 And we're going to be focusing on what's going on 01:46 in Congo with reaching people 01:50 who probably have never heard of Jesus Christ 01:53 and then training them for the kingdom of heaven. 01:55 So we're really excited about our program today. 01:57 Before we get to our program we're going to have a word 01:59 of prayer that God will bless and direct us 02:02 as we share with you this powerful ministry. 02:04 And then we're going to go to a special music 02:07 with Jaime Jorge... Jorge... Jaime Jorge... 02:12 Turn Your Eyes Upon Jesus. 02:13 So let's start with a word of prayer before we get into 02:15 our program. Father in heaven, we want to thank you 02:17 again for this opportunity just to get a glimpse 02:20 of the work that You are doing in this world... especially 02:23 in the Congo. I want to pray that You'll be with Pr. George, 02:27 with Pastor Thomas. That You'll guide and direct 02:30 their hearts as they share with our viewers the testimony 02:33 of the powerful ministry that You've been doing in this 02:36 war-torn country 02:37 bringing the 3 angels' messages to so many people... 02:40 even people who are rebels against government... 02:44 and turning their hearts to Jesus. 02:46 We're looking forward to their testimonies, Father. 02:48 We just ask that Your Spirit will anoint them 02:50 and will anoint this program. 02:52 So guide and direct us we pray in Jesus' name, Amen. AMEM! 02:56 OK... we're going to listen to a special with Jaime Jorge: 02:59 Turn Your Eyes Upon Jesus 03:01 then we'll be right back. 06:07 Amen! Amen! 06:09 Thank you Jaime Jorge. And we are blessed 06:12 to keep our eyes focused upon Jesus. 06:14 Well we're going to start with our guests. 06:16 I want to know a little bit about you Pastor George 06:19 and Pastor Thomas. Tell me a little bit about 06:21 you personally and then your connection with The Congo. 06:25 Well I was actually a Catholic. 06:28 OK. I wanted to become a priest when I was younger. 06:32 OK. And the Lord took me out of Babylon - OK - 06:36 and brought me to this truth through my wife. 06:39 Where were you? What country were you in? 06:41 I was in Trinidad at that time - OK - 06:44 when I wanted to become a priest and I came to the United States 06:47 afterward. Then I met my wife 06:51 and we got married in the Catholic church. OK. 06:55 And after that... A few years later on she said 06:58 she didn't like the way the priest was preaching. 07:01 So I took her back in the Adventist church 07:03 and she came back crying when she heard about Rev. 13- 07:06 Wow - about the coming of Jesus and she said: 07:09 "I'm going back to the Adventist church. " 07:11 And I said: "Are you crazy? " 07:13 The children were two altar boys in the Catholic church - 07:17 hmm - and they were there. And I said: "Lord, since I can't 07:21 be a priest maybe they can become a priest later on. " 07:23 Oh wow! But the Lord took that away. 07:25 She took them to the Adventist church. 07:27 They started learning the Bible. 07:29 I saw the Spirit of the Lord working with the children. 07:32 And at that time they were going to the Catholic school. 07:36 One of the nuns mentioned about something in the Bible. 07:39 My second son said: 'No, it's not in the Bible. " 07:41 So he came and he told me about it. 07:43 So the second week she said something about the Bible again 07:46 and my wife said my son came back and he said: "No, 07:48 it's not in the Bible. " So I was working at Bank of America 07:51 and she called me at the job and said: 07:55 "What's with your son? Why is he talking about the Bible? " 07:57 I said: "Well, he's being taught the Bible. " 07:59 So she said: "Is he the defender of the Adventist faith? " 08:03 I said: "No... he's studying the Bible. " 08:06 So the third time something happened she slapped him. 08:08 Wow! She slapped him 08:10 and my wife had just been baptized. Hmm. 08:13 She was so angry she was planning of going down there 08:15 and "duke it up" with the nuns. 08:20 She decided to take the kids out; send them to SDA school. 08:23 At that time I was still a Catholic and I decided: 08:26 "You know, I see the Lord working with the children 08:29 and I want to believe. " 08:31 I said: "Lord, maybe I'm going to give my life to the Lord 08:34 also. " Um-hmm. There was a new believer's class 08:36 and my daughter who was 9 years at that time 08:38 was very strong. And they used to pray a lot in the SDA church. 08:43 And I was sitting in the new believer's class 08:46 and my wife and my daughter were there. 08:47 And she said: "I want to get baptized. " 08:49 So the Bible worker said: "You know you can't get baptized... 08:55 your father is a strong Catholic; he has to approve. " 08:58 So I said: "Maybe I'll get baptized also. " 09:00 Hmm. So that week afterwards was Palm Sunday. 09:04 So I went to church with my mother because I was still 09:07 a Catholic and I felt kind of conflicted. 09:10 Maybe something is wrong. Let me find out what's going on here. 09:12 The priest spoke about the Ten Commandments. 09:14 He mentioned every commandment except for one: 09:17 the fourth commandment. Right. 09:19 So when he didn't mention it I went to him and I said: 09:21 "Is the Catholic church above God? " 09:23 He said: "What do you mean? " 09:25 I said: "You mentioned every commandment except the 4th 09:27 commandment. " He said: "It's changed. " 09:30 I said: "Where? " He said: "Apocalupsis. " 09:32 So at that time I was studying the Bible 09:35 and I knew what Apocalupsis was. 09:36 I was looking at some Greek. So I said: "Revelation. " 09:38 He said: "Yeah. " So I went into the Bible 09:41 and I looked at this man and said: "What do you say 09:43 is true? The Bible does say that the fourth commandment 09:46 is going to be changed but the Bible says it will be 09:47 changed by an apostate church. " 09:49 Hmm. "A church that turned away from God. " 09:52 So that was my decision 09:55 and my daughter and I got baptized... which was Good 09:59 Friday for the Catholic church. 10:01 Saturday - they call it Resurrection Morning - 10:04 and it was my resurrection. Right. 10:06 My daughter and I got baptized the same time. 10:08 And I was coming up out of the water 10:11 I heard a voice from heaven say to me: 10:12 "This is where I want you to be. " Praise God! 10:15 And I knew I wanted to become a priest. 10:17 The Lord said: "You know something? You're going to do 10:19 pastoral evangelism. " Wow! Wow! 10:21 And I've been here ever since. Wow! 10:23 Pastor Thomas, have you been an Adventist all your life? 10:28 Or did you come from the Catholic church too like we did? 10:32 I want to tell you something. 10:34 You know, we are acquainted with the word "PK's. " 10:37 OK. Pastor's kids. Yeah. 10:39 But I am not a PK... I'm a NK. 10:43 Nun's kid... special. My mother used to be a Roman Catholic nun. 10:49 Really? Yes. 10:50 And now the story that my father was a farmer. 10:57 He owned a coffee farm 10:59 and he had a woman. And the first woman of my father 11:03 didn't have children. So where is this? What country are we in? 11:07 In Congo. The Congo... OK. 11:09 And now my father wanted to have children 11:13 and his wife said: "Don't go after another woman. 11:17 I will help you to find the right one. " 11:19 OK. And she went back to her village 11:22 and she found my mom. She was coming from the nunnery 11:25 and she was pregnant. She was raped by rebels - Wow - 11:29 and she was pregnant. 11:31 And the cousin said "I am married to a man 11:34 and I don't have children... so you, instead of going back 11:38 to the nunnery with this pregnancy - yes - 11:41 come and become the second wife of my husband 11:43 and bear children to me. " 11:45 Wow! And then they made a deal. 11:47 Two cousins... they made a deal. 11:49 OK. "If you're coming to become the second wife of my husband 11:53 then the first three children will be mine 11:56 and the fourth will be yours. " 11:58 Really? The two sisters made an agreement 12:01 and my mother became the second wife of my father. 12:04 And then she bore three children: two boys and one girl. 12:10 OK. And I am the fourth one. And you are the fourth one! 12:13 You're hers. Yes! And I was born... I was supposed to be 12:17 the first-born of my mother actually. Right. 12:19 The same year my family became SDA... my family. 12:24 So my mother was baptized. OK. 12:27 And the first wife was also baptized. OK. 12:30 And my father said: "I want to keep all my wives 12:32 and to take care of my family 12:35 so I'll be a friend of the church 12:36 and I will still be a SDA but I will not be baptized 12:40 because I have two wives. " 12:41 And then finally my mother said: "This is my first-born. 12:45 I used to be a missionary. I want to pray for my son 12:49 to commit his life in the hand of the Lord 12:53 so he may become a missionary as I used to be a missionary 12:56 of the Roman Catholic church. " Wow! So that's me! 12:59 That's amazing! So we're all from the Roman Catholic church. 13:04 We're all connected. Isn't that something? Yeah. 13:05 It's interesting because in Revelation we're told 13:08 the message is: "Come out of her My people. " 13:11 Yes. And God has many many precious people 13:13 in the Roman Catholic faith, and we all know that. 13:16 You know, we all know that... but those people are His 13:18 because they are going to accept the everlasting gospel 13:21 and come out of Babylon. 13:22 I do have family in the Catholic church... 13:23 very strong in the Catholic church. Yes. 13:25 And some of them - one of them - a good friend of the family 13:29 she's a nun also. OK. 13:30 She's gone to different parts of the world doing work. 13:33 My cousin also is part of... he went to Rome to meet the Pope 13:38 and did a lot of fundraising to fix the cathedral. 13:42 Very strong in the Catholic faith. OK. 13:44 And they are going to watch this program but I want them to know 13:47 that I am praying for them to the Lord. Amen! I like that. 13:51 I like that. So what is your connection with The Congo? 13:53 You live in The Congo? Yeah. And you are connected? 13:56 Yeah, well, we started the 14:00 Share Him having evangelistic meetings. OK. 14:02 And I was working with Pastor Michael Ngwaruat Share Him 14:05 for a while. And we decided we're going to go to Zimbabwe. 14:07 So while we were in Zimbabwe 14:09 we had a meeting and we decided. 14:11 "You know, The Congo has been our concern. " 14:14 Mary... Mary Ann Roberts who was there, she said: 14:17 "This is our concern: we need to go to The Congo. 14:20 When can we go to The Congo? " 14:21 So Pastor Michael Ngwaru said: "You know, 14:23 The Congo has too many rebels fighting and different things 14:26 so it's going to be difficult. 14:28 If you're going, you're going on your own 14:30 because the government fights the British 14:32 and our Canadian government. If you go into The Congo, 14:35 we can't get you out so you've got to make a decision. " 14:37 So we already decided. We prayed; we are going to go. 14:39 So he did the logistics. He went up in the Wembashee. 14:42 While we were in Wembashee we were praying 14:46 and I was doing evangelistic meetings. 14:47 One person came to me one day, an elder of the church. 14:50 I was preaching in one of the big churches over there. 14:53 He said: "Pastor, you know the last time 14:55 we had an evangelistic meeting in the Wambashee was 1927. " 14:59 Hmm! That was the last time they ever had an evangelistic meeting 15:02 there. So I said: "Man, it was that bad! " 15:04 And we were staying in the Union compound 15:07 and we heard the history of why the rebels were fighting. 15:10 The missionaries at that time in the early days 15:12 used to sleep between the walls of the compound to keep away 15:16 from the bullets flying in the place. 15:18 I mean, it was something else. 15:19 So while this was happening we got a call from... 15:23 from Pastor Ongasa about wanting us to come 15:27 to his area because he was Bocabu. 15:29 He said: "Look, we need you to come down here 15:31 because we heard you were doing a big evangelistic meeting 15:33 over there. " So he wanted us to come, and he called us. 15:36 I was talking with Pastor Dobias 15:38 and that's when we found about... Pastor Ongasa can 15:42 tell his story about when he heard about us. OK. 15:46 Well I was a Conference President by that time. 15:50 I went to the Congo for the first time and it was 2011. 15:53 OK. I went to the Union office 15:55 for the end-year meetings. Then on my way back 16:00 I was reading Adventist news... world news... 16:04 and I saw about Share Him. I read about Share Him 16:09 in Wambashee for a campaign. I said: "What? 16:13 I need to be in touch with them! " I went to the website 16:16 I found a phone # and I called and it was Pr. David Dobias, 16:21 the coordinator for the team in Wambashee. 16:23 He indicated who he was and he said: "Who are you? " 16:25 I said: "I am Pastor Thomas Ongasa, 16:27 a Conference president in the So. Kyu area east in The Congo. 16:31 So I want you after Mgashi to come to my place 16:34 next year. " And he said: "OK, we will pray about that. " 16:37 And finally, they decided. They went to the Congo to my place 16:41 and we had wonderful people coming. So many people 16:45 and we sent them to three different cities: 16:47 Makabwe I was, Goma, and Sinatti. 16:51 And Pastor Lee was coordinat- ing the team in Goma. 16:54 And finally, so we said: "You need to come back 16:57 the following year... 2015. " And I saw them 17:01 in a vision. The Lord wanted me to start a ministry 17:04 for the French-speaking countries in Africa 17:05 and I wanted them to come back and to discuss with me about 17:08 the ministry. So the following year - 2013- 17:11 they went back to Bukabwe and trained them. 17:15 I attended the first meeting we had there. 17:16 OK. Then we decided on a name for the organization 17:20 and trained the officials in Inokema. OK. 17:23 From there on after that 17:27 one of the individuals who was interested in forming the org. 17:31 she went back to North Carolina - OK - 17:35 Carolyn Leonard - and she started the organization. 17:38 And that's how Train Them 2 Fish was born. 17:40 So Train Them 2 Fish. 17:42 Tell us about that ministry. What is the goal? 17:45 What is the vision of the ministry of Train Them 2 Fish? 17:49 Well that's our official name: Train Them 2 Fish. Um-hmm. 17:55 Jesus called His first disciples with: "Follow Me 17:58 and I will make you fishers of men. " That's right. 18:02 Exactly. So it was our dream. Um-hmm. 18:06 We want to make fishers of men 18:09 to reach out to the French- speaking countries of Africa. 18:11 And the first time we went with the name Teach Them 2 Fish 18:15 and when we were thinking about the name Train Them 2 Fish 18:18 in the U.S. they say: "that name has been taken. " Yes. 18:21 Actually we don't like to ruin that name. 18:24 and we said: "Teaching people will train them. " Yes. 18:28 Better... better. Teaching... feeding the mind. 18:31 A lot of people mention it 18:33 but training is teaching people to do the work. 18:36 I checked with the Internet and I found out that 18:38 Teach Them 2 Fish has already been an organization. 18:41 We cannot afford to have any crossover and we don't want 18:46 anyone suing us for taking the name. 18:48 So we came up with Train Them 2 Fish 18:50 and that was really and truly... The organization said: "OK" 18:55 and we stayed with Train Them 2 Fish. 18:56 I like that. And we stayed with Train Them 2 Fish. OK. 18:59 So the goal for us is not only to train people 19:03 to go out and to reach other people for Jesus. 19:05 Since we are working in a poor area 19:09 you know when you bring people to the church 19:11 poor people, so they may become another burden for the church. 19:15 And we said: "We will be training people 19:18 to go out for evangelism. Also to train people 19:21 how to make a living. " OK! And so physically & spiritually. 19:25 And our vision at Train Them 2 Fish is to reach out 19:29 to French-speaking countries of Africa - um-hmm - 19:31 using Christ's methods. OK. 19:33 So the French-speaking countries of Africa... 19:36 not just the Congo? Not just the Congo. 19:38 Really. OK... do you speak French? 19:40 I do. You do speak French? My first language. 19:44 That's your first language? OK... so... 19:45 So what are the different focuses of the ministry 19:49 Train Them 2 Fish? Is it just one thing that you're doing 19:51 or are there other things? What does it entail? 19:54 What is it all about? 19:56 In the beginning we will say we have like five fingers 19:59 in the world. OK. And the main project is 20:04 training people. Um-hmm. 20:06 So training Bible workers - OK - 20:09 training medical missionaries - OK - 20:14 training people in vocational programs - yeah, OK - 20:17 like to make a living. Can make a living 20:22 and also training people in actually agriculture. 20:26 Farming program: the training program we have. 20:32 And so we have an official program where we train people 20:37 in the health program. Yeah... OK. 20:39 That's the next part of our program. 20:42 We have the evangelism school 20:44 and we are planning to open up a school of... 20:47 like Wildwood. 20:51 It will be like Wildwood. We want to do the same thing also 20:53 OK - training them how to do medical missionary 20:55 so they can go and help other people. 20:58 When we were there we found out a lot of the people 21:01 when we were doing the medical a lot of people suffer with 21:03 high blood pressure. OK. And the thing is that 21:05 they were eating too much sodium, not drinking enough H2O. 21:08 And so we were teaching them about cutting down on salt 21:12 but they had this ailment and they always wanted us 21:16 to give them some kind of medication. 21:17 OK. So really and truly they did not need the medication. 21:20 They needed to change the lifestyle. Natural lifestyle. 21:23 Teaching them but they said: "Give me a tablet; 21:27 give me something. " But eventually 21:29 we were telling them the importance 21:36 of drinking water - yes - and of too much salt in your food. 21:39 OK. Caused too much problems. 21:41 Do they have water readily available there? 21:44 Well, that's a challenge in the Congo because 21:48 the reports say that only 15% of the communities have access 21:53 to drinking water... ANY water. 21:57 Right. So that's why our second finger is health. 22:00 OK. So not only providing physical health 22:04 but also education. Education of people 22:07 how to get access to clean water and sanitation. 22:11 Health is our second finger so we have been 22:14 going in different communities providing free health care 22:18 to people and villages. 22:22 And when the government came to see what we were doing 22:26 in terms of providing free health care - um-hmm - 22:28 the government was impressed. They said: "You are doing 22:31 a great work. So we have three vans 22:34 medical vans - and you guys can take those vans. " 22:38 Really? We got mobile clinics. 22:41 They were given to us. And so "Use them & take them 22:44 to the community; provide free health care. " 22:46 We didn't have to apply for the vans. "Just come and take it. " 22:50 Really? And also we dug about 12 wells. Yes. 22:54 You did! We were asking about that... OK. 22:58 Because in some places they need water so badly 23:00 and they have to walk so far to get the water. Yes. 23:03 It's not even clear water - yes - the water they're taking. 23:05 So with the well drilling, is that a company that you 23:08 work with or is that your own ministry? Our own ministry! 23:11 Yeah, our own ministry all those things. 23:14 So when we provide clean water for people 23:18 we remind them that Jesus is the Living Water. 23:20 Amen! Amen! 'Cause there's a ministry in Guatemala 23:23 that's based in the US that drills wells. 23:27 Yes. It's kind of a huge impact, you know, 23:31 because water is one of the natural doctors 23:34 that we have. Yeah, yeah, exactly. 23:36 Another finger of Teach Them 2 Fish is 23:38 financial stability. We have what we call 23:42 Sabbath Bread Program. OK. 23:45 The Sabbath Bread Program teaches people how to make bread 23:50 and one of our Bible workers has been trained how to make bread. 23:54 So when they make bread they go to a place where 23:57 there is no church near and they start a bakery there. 24:00 And they don't sell the bread. They go to the community 24:02 and tell people: "We'll give you a job. " 24:04 Really? "Come and become sellers of our bread. " 24:07 Really? "So after you sell the bread then we will pay you 24:11 ten percent... 25% of your sales. " 24:14 So we pay them on a weekly basis. 24:19 Every Friday they come to the Bible worker 24:22 and they receive their salary. And the Bible worker make an 24:24 announcement and say: "Tomorrow there is no bread. 24:27 If you come to my bakery, I have special bread to give to you. " 24:31 And if they come on the Sabbath 24:34 give them the Bread of Life Bible studies. Wow! 24:37 That is amazing. I LOVE that! 24:40 We don't have pictures of the bakery as yet 24:42 but it is almost finished. OK. 24:44 We just got a good donation on it so it is almost completed. 24:49 So explain that. You have a bakery 24:52 in a central area, and from there all the bread goes out 24:55 to other areas? Yes... that's the plan. 24:58 On the campus we have the main bakery. OK. 25:03 And we train them. We can sell around us. 25:07 But when we send Bible workers to a rural area where there is 25:10 no church they go and they start their own bakery. 25:14 Small ones. OK. We give them seed funds 25:17 to start a bakery as a center of influence 25:20 where people will be coming to get bread. 25:22 We sell bread, and on Sabbath everything is closed 25:25 and we give the Bread of Life. 25:27 OK. So these small bakeries... are they a bakery 25:30 or they just receive bread from the main? 25:33 It's a selling place where they can sell. Oh it's a selling 25:35 place. Gotcha. They have like a little stand - 25:37 yes - where they can sell the bread. 25:39 After they invite them for Bible work afterward on Sabbath. 25:42 OK... All right... so 25:45 what about? Can you tell your viewers a little bit about 25:48 what happened between? The last interview you've had 25:51 has been how long ago? 25:53 That was almost three years ago. 25:55 Almost three years ago. So from that time to this time 25:58 especially there's been a couple years of this COVID crisis 26:02 that we've been going through with a lot of lockdowns 26:05 how has that impacted the ministry? What's happened 26:08 from that time to this time? 26:09 We've been doing a lot of work in the Congo in health ministry. 26:13 OK. And teaching them how to distance... social distancing. 26:17 And what we did is the people who we taught how to sew 26:21 they started making the masks. We bought the material 26:24 and we started making the masks and we started to distribute. 26:27 Pastor Ongasa is going to explain more of what happened. 26:30 So during the lockdown, we said: "OK, we are not going to 26:34 lock the gospel. " Um-hmm. Amen. 26:37 So we trained our Bible workers 26:40 how to become nurses - OK - 26:43 to go outside there to share masks with these people. OK. 26:47 And we told them: "These masks will protect you against COVID 26:51 but we have a special protec- tion: it is the Word of God. " 26:56 So we started a special program called City Sidewalk Evangelism. 27:01 Sending our Bible workers to different areas 27:05 where people were going. 27:06 They can come and pick up a free mask & also a Bible study 27:11 guide. And we said: "Go and read the Bible study guide 27:15 so when you read it because you'll be locked down 27:18 in your home you cannot move a lot 27:21 so you'll be studying the Bible to protect you 27:24 against sin. " So we had a series of Bible studies. Yes. 27:28 So a series of 27 lessons. 27:32 So we said: "After going through the series 27:36 we will give you a free Bible to protect you against sin 27:39 as a mask protecting you against sin. " 27:42 So by God's grace LightBearers sent us containers of Bibles 27:46 and certificates as well. 27:49 So then we started the project & our Bible workers were going out 27:54 as evangelists providing masks 27:59 and also providing study guides. Um-hmm. 28:00 And by the time of COVID we were able to work under tents 28:06 where people were coming to get the Bible study guides - yeah - 28:09 and going back to read them. Um-hmm. 28:11 And finally when the government of Congo said that you can be 28:15 free; you can go back to your jobs 28:17 and you can go back to the normal life but wearing a mask; 28:21 we organized a festive graduation with all those people 28:25 who had been studying the Bible during the lockdown. 28:28 So guests? Get a certificate, yes. Seven thousand people 28:33 showed up for the graduation. 28:35 Praise God! And each one of them received a Bible. 28:38 And the Union organized a meeting - a seminar, 28:42 on-line seminar - for two weeks. 28:45 And by God's grace we have so many people: 28:49 1,500 people were baptized. 28:52 Praise God! You know, it sounds to me like 28:55 Satan was trying to lock down the gospel 28:58 during the last two years and isolate us 29:00 and keep the gospel from spreading 29:02 but God gave you the wisdom to actually use that as 29:06 an opportunity to actually get the gospel out to people - 29:09 exactly - to sow those seeds and to bring in a great harvest 29:13 for God's glory. Yeah. 29:15 Praise God! I really love that. That's a fantastic story. Amen. 29:19 So why do you guys focus on the French-speaking countries 29:22 of Africa? What is the connection there? 29:25 Is it because you're French speaking? 29:27 The Congo is French speaking? 29:29 Yeah. When you look at the statistics 29:33 worldwide - the SDA statistics - 29:36 about half of church members 29:40 are in Africa. Um-hmm. 29:41 OK. Yeah... and when you go down in Africa 29:44 then you find a lot of those members 29:46 are in English-speaking countries. OK. 29:50 So the work is not really progressing fast 29:53 as it is in English- speaking countries. Gotcha. 29:56 And so Train Them 2 Fish... let me give you an example. 29:59 One of the countries - a French- speaking country in the Congo - 30:02 in Africa - is called Congo-Brazzaville. 30:04 So that country is a neighboring country 30:08 to Congo Kinshasa where I am. OK. 30:10 But Congo-Brazzaville has only three pastors 30:13 for the whole country. 30:14 Three Adventist pastors? Three. 30:17 For the whole country? I'm serious. 30:19 Only three. Is it a French-speaking country? Yes. 30:23 And we say... What kind of population are we talking about? 30:26 Six million. Three pastors for six million! Um-hmm. 30:29 They're across the Congo river. The Congo river separates 30:32 Congo-Brazzaville from DRC also. OK. 30:35 Yeah... OK. In Kinshasa where I am based 30:39 the capital city of Kinshasa of Congo 30:41 that's the largest French- speaking city in the world 30:45 with 17 million people - OK - but very very few Adventists. 30:51 OK. And some people... they have never heard about 30:54 the three angels' messages. Um-hmm. 30:57 And we decided that we need to fill the gap. 30:59 Yes. Train Them 2 Fish needs to fill the gap 31:01 with trained missionaries. To send them out 31:05 to both countries. OK. 31:08 That's why we have a focus on the 29 French-speaking countries 31:11 of Africa. Praise the Lord! Praise the Lord! I like that. 31:13 Ellen White says leaves: "Like the leaves of Autumn. " 31:16 Like the leaves of Autumn... That's right. 31:19 I know we've got some powerful testimonies. 31:21 I want to make sure we have enough time for those. 31:22 But a couple other questions I want to ask you: 31:24 how long have you been serving these countries? 31:27 And how many countries have you reached so far? 31:30 We've been serving... 31:32 Before we started as Share Him, 31:35 part of Share Him, but now 31:36 as Train Them 2 Fish we do 31:38 evangelism in different countries 31:40 as part of Train Them 2 Fish now. 31:41 I took a group to Tanzania this year 31:44 and I was working the Masai area. It was very good; 31:47 nice people. The Lord allowed us to baptize 31:51 the whole group. We had 20 people and 20 different sites 31:54 where evangelism was being done. OK. 31:56 And the Lord blessed us with 490 that got baptized. 32:00 Praise God! Now is that French-speaking, though? 32:03 No... Tanzania is Swahili. Right. 32:05 But the amazing thing with Tanzania is that 32:08 even though there are different tribes in Tanzania 32:11 all of them speak the same language. 32:13 OK. But they never have any problem tribally. 32:16 OK. Like in some countries if there are different tribes 32:19 you know they have problems. I don't want to name another 32:22 country where I was and we had problems with it. Right. 32:24 But in Tanzania all the different tribes work together. 32:28 OK. No problems. So your ministry reaches out 32:30 to some of the other countries? Even non-French-speaking 32:33 countries? Yeah. OK. 32:35 So we are planning to go... Next year we are going to 32:37 back to Congo for ten-year celebration. 32:40 And after Congo, we have been called to go to Uganda. 32:44 OK. So 2023 in the Congo; 32:48 2024 is Uganda. OK. 32:51 So that's where our next step is going to be. 32:53 Congo, of course, you said ten years. 32:55 So you've been there 10 years? Yes. 32:57 Yeah. Meaning that our focus is French-speaking countries. 33:00 But people who have been seeing our work say: 33:03 "Oh! You guys don't forget us. 33:05 You can give us a favor! " 33:08 That's why sometimes we go there to give them. 33:11 But our focus is in the French- speaking countries. Gotcha. 33:14 And we have been serving them for nine years now. Yes. 33:18 And next year we are going to celebrate 10 years of ministry. 33:22 As you say, how many French-speaking countries? 33:25 So we have been to the Congo Kinshasa, Congo Democratic. 33:29 and we went to train people in Congo Brazzaville. 33:32 And we have been to Gabon and we have been to Chad. 33:36 We are setting up our registration in Central Africa 33:40 and we have been to Burkina Faso with a team. 33:44 And we have been to Benin. Actually we are planning to run 33:48 a two-week training program in Benin. 33:51 So probably seven countries 33:54 in collaboration with AWR. 33:58 We have been able to establish radio stations in Congo Kinshasa 34:02 and Togo as well. 34:04 We have been able to establish a radio station in Gabon 34:07 and in Chad. We are now planning to have 34:09 another one in Central Africa Republic... five countries. 34:12 Yeah. OK... Adventist World Radio. 34:15 That's what AWR is... yes. Yeah, praise the Lord. 34:18 So you're working in all of these different countries 34:21 but your base is? The base is Congo Kinshasa. 34:26 That's where you work out of to get to these areas? Yeah. 34:29 Besides our headquarters in America 34:31 DRC is our base. OK. 34:33 So what is the main project that you're focusing on right now? 34:38 What is your priority right now? 34:42 Well our priority now is to see the School of Evangelism 34:47 get well established. OK. 34:49 We... Tell us a little bit about that: the School of Evangelism. 34:52 So in Kinshasa, the capitol city, we have property 34:58 and we are developing a School of Evangelism there. 35:01 Three hours... three hours out of the city. OK. 35:04 So we have some buildings already there 35:06 and we are expanding the training program 35:10 and we are raising funds. Actually we have a matching fund 35:14 of $40,000 US dollars being raised - OK - 35:17 to be matched dollar for dollar 35:19 so that we may complete a guest house - yeah - 35:23 we may complete a cafeteria 35:24 and we may put water and put electricity on the campus. 35:31 We are going to start a major training program in January. 35:34 So if people are willing to sponsor that kind of project 35:38 they can go on our website to do the matching. Yeah. 35:42 We really want to start a solar project 35:46 because we know with a generator it costs money with gas. 35:49 But if we have solar energy 35:51 running the whole system - OK - 35:53 it will save us a lot of money 35:55 and be good news in the long run. 35:56 OK. We're going to put some information up 35:59 in a little bit here to tell people, our viewers 36:02 how they can contact you; how they can support your ministry; 36:05 where they can give donations to as far as supporting this 36:08 School of Evangleism & the other projects that you're doing. 36:11 Especially you know this is going to be the very first 36:14 School of Evangelism in the Francophone countries of Africa. 36:18 French-speaking countries. It's going to be the very first one. 36:20 And so if you have people coming in... 36:22 Let's just say you have a guest coming in 36:24 to do some training. Maybe they're going to be there 36:26 for a week... whatever. They would be translated? 36:29 You're reaching the French- speaking people and they 36:30 would be translated into French as they're sharing there. 36:33 Yeah. If you can come as a trainer speaking English, 36:37 we have good people on the ground to translate 36:39 everything. OK. We can use you as a guest trainer. 36:43 So my question is: Can anyone attend this 36:46 School of Evangelism? Is it for any person? 36:49 Or what is the criteria? What do you have to have 36:52 to qualify for this school? 36:54 To qualify for the school is just to feel the call 36:58 from the Lord. Anyone can attend. 37:00 OK. So even new believers. 37:03 We can still train them to give them basic doctrinal 37:06 courses and also everyone can attend. 37:11 Even ordained pastors... they can still come. 37:14 I love that. So you're going to have different classes 37:16 for different levels of people 37:17 but the one criteria is 37:19 that they have a desire to do ministry for God. Yes. 37:23 I love that! OK. All right. So do you have other ministries, 37:26 other organizations or friends working with you 37:30 to accomplish... Are you guys solo? 37:32 Or are other ministries that are actually working with you? 37:35 We can remember what's that. 37:36 We need to have other organizations joining us because 37:41 this is not a selfish ministry. Right. 37:43 It's a ministry to reach the world - Amen - 37:46 and we cannot be by ourselves. Jesus had a lot of helpers. 37:48 OK. Even while He was working 37:50 the Bible says even the ladies were donating money 37:53 to help in the ministry. That's right. 37:54 So we have to depend on the same thing also. OK. 37:57 So you know we are a supporting ministry of the SDA church. 38:02 Amen... Amen. And we belong to the family of ASI. 38:06 And we also belong to the um- brella of Outpost Centers Intl. 38:11 OTI... so that's our family. 38:13 And so we have been going to ASI for a number of years 38:19 and ASI provided some funds 38:21 to build the first 2 buildings. We received the money from them. 38:25 And then we as a ministry born out of the Carolinas - 38:28 the Carolina Conference - has been a great support 38:32 to our ministry for a long time. 38:34 That was through Share Him, right? Yeah, Share Him. 38:37 Yeah, and the Carolina Conf. provided the first donation 38:41 for us to buy the land - really? - 38:44 where we are building the school. OK... OK. 38:46 So OCI is part of our supporting ministries. 38:49 Actually LightBearers Ministry has been sending containers 38:54 containers to us, and we have a collaboration kind of 38:58 partnership with LightBearers. OK! 39:00 Bibles and study guides. 39:04 So we belong to that variety of family 39:07 partnering with a lot of people. 39:10 And recently I was at the ASI meeting and the convention. 39:15 And Elder Wilson was there and commented: "We need this 39:18 kind of ministry to go ahead. " 39:20 And you even get a little support from your local 39:23 government, right? Exactly! 39:24 "Take these vans... take these vans. " 39:26 It's amazing how God will work on the heart even of 39:30 govt. officials. You know when Ellen White was alive 39:33 Solusi received a donation of land to start a school there. 39:39 Adventist history. Yes... yes. 39:40 It was 1895... yeah. 39:42 And some of our brethren were concerned about that. 39:44 You know A. T. Jones was concerned about that. 39:46 Five thousand acres of land. And now it's a university. 39:50 Now they have 20,000 acres of land! 39:51 OK. When I was there they bought a lake 39:54 and the ASI President asked him: "How big; how far is 39:58 the property? " He said: "As far as the horizon! " Whoa! 40:01 That's how big the property is! Praise God! 40:03 And so God uses... God works on the hearts of governments. 40:07 We see that in the Bible.We see that in the book of Daniel 40:09 and other places to help support the ministry. 40:12 So I have a question. You know I've been familiar with 40:15 the work in the Congo. I was part of LightBearers 40:18 for many many years. And about 2020 40:21 is the last time I was really involved in the ministry there 40:24 and what they're doing in getting Bibles out. 40:27 And the last I heard Congo was a difficult place 40:31 to get the containers in, you know. 40:32 What is the political atmosphere there now? 40:35 I mean, how are things 40:37 as far as the work goes and getting things in? 40:39 Explain a little bit about that. 40:41 When I was in Goma the rebels were there. 40:45 And the mayor of the country, of Goma, invited us 40:49 to have time with him. And we spoke and he said 40:54 "Congo is not that bad, you know. " 40:56 But at that time there were about twelve different... 40:59 five major rebel companies 41:02 and there were about 12 dif- ferent rebels causing problems. 41:05 He said: "But now it's not as bad as it used to be. " 41:08 Right, Pastor? You know when people read about 41:11 Congo that's all they think that Congo means war. 41:14 Yeah! Congo is a BIG country. 41:17 OK. Let me give you an example. When you go maybe 41:20 to Chicago people may say: "Chicago is a villous place. " 41:23 OK. But Chicago does not mean the US. 41:26 Right. So just a small part of the Congo 41:31 where there's war isn't the Congo. 41:34 So the country is big... twenty-six provinces. OK. 41:37 And out of the 26 only four of them are in war. 41:41 So the rest of the 22 of them are in peaceful 41:44 conditions. Ah... OK! 41:46 So that's the Congo... the picture of Congo. OK. 41:48 And now where we are based in Kinshasa it is stable. 41:51 OK. And sending containers to the Congo 41:54 we have an exemption from the government - OK - 41:57 that we can ship containers all the time. 41:59 And we have a partnership with the Embassy of Congo 42:03 in Washington, D.C. Everybody willing to go 42:07 we can receive a Visa without any problems 42:13 and we can get our people to the country without any problems. 42:16 That is really good to know! 42:18 That's really good to know. OK, well 42:19 do you have some testimonies you want to share with us about 42:21 personal experiences? Things that have been happening there? 42:24 Yeah, I can share 2 of the testimonies even though we 42:27 have LOTS to share. Um-hmm. 42:29 One of them is about a man. A man... he was sick, 42:33 EXTREMELY sick, and he needed surgery. 42:37 The family didn't have money to send him to the hospital. 42:41 And they came together as a family to discuss how 42:45 to save the life of their brother. 42:47 OK. And they decided they will sell a part of their property 42:50 of the lot - OK - to get money from the sale 42:53 to send him to the hospital for the surgery. 42:56 And one of our Bible workers was around there 42:59 and he saw them. And he went to talk to them 43:02 and said: "Why are you sad? " They said: "We need to 43:04 save the life of our brother but we don't have money. 43:07 We want to sell our property to get money. " 43:10 And he told them: "Don't sell your property. 43:12 I want to talk to my team. We have medical doctors. 43:15 We have been doing surgery for FREE! " Yes. 43:17 And he called our office and one of the doctors went there. 43:21 He said: "No problem... we can save his life. " 43:23 "We can do the surgery for free. " 43:25 And the doctor called me and I went there with my car. 43:29 We took the man to the hospital and he had FREE surgery. 43:32 Praise God! After one week 43:35 he was released from the hospital. 43:37 And I went back again. I took him from the hospital 43:39 back home, and when we reached the home 43:42 the family said: "Pastor, how much money do we owe you? " 43:45 I said: 'Nothing! 43:47 You just praise the Lord because this is the love of God 43:50 that we share with you. " Um-hmm. And the guy said: 43:53 "Well, if we are not giving you any money listen Pastor: 43:57 you see that property beside there? 44:00 It was already decided to be sold. 44:02 So we are not selling it because I am good. Well, 44:06 I want to give it to the Lord. " Um-hmm. Wow! 44:08 "I want you to come and build a church there 44:10 and I want that God for saving my life to be my neighbor. " 44:14 I love that! "So He will be my neighbor. " 44:17 And he went around the community telling people about God 44:21 and we have raised a small church there. OK. 44:24 That church is called The House of the Lord 44:26 and God is the neighbor of that family. Wow! 44:28 He is going around saying: "Don't misunderstand about 44:32 this house here. This is the house of my neighbor. " 44:35 So God's neighbor. Wow! That way you get Maranatha 44:38 in there, huh? and build a little one-day church? 44:41 I spoke with Maranatha before to get us some churches 44:44 down there. And I said: "I have a donor from Oakwood 44:47 that wanted to buy one church" and they said 44:49 they don't send one church. 44:51 You have to send containers of churches 44:53 because it costs a lot of money in order to do it. 44:55 You cannot get one. But we have people 44:58 who are there who are so anxious to have their churches 45:01 that they build it themselves. 45:03 Yeah. And what's a container of churches? 45:05 How many churches is that? Is it 100 churches? 45:07 Fifty churches? Twenty churches? 45:08 It's a big container 45:10 and it costs a lot of money because $1,500 per church. 45:13 OK. And if you do a container, 45:15 it costs a lot of money to ship it down there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 45:17 OK. We don't have the donors. We need a donor to help us 45:21 get about 15-20 churches - yes - 45:23 to get down there in one shipment. One container? Yeah. 45:27 That way they can build it themselves 45:31 or Maranatha can come down there 45:33 and do it as a project. Right... right. 45:35 We need to pray about that 'cause that would be a good 45:37 thing to do. Yes. So Pastor James, you know 45:39 a lot of people are dying in the Congo with what we call 45:42 avoidable death. OK... avoidable death. 45:46 Yes. A lot are dying of avoidable deaths. 45:48 Like God's neighbor. OK. If we didn't go there he would die. 45:52 So many people are dying. That's why we need some people 45:55 to support our ministry. OK. 45:57 To go and reach people so that they may avoid death 46:00 and to know about the love of God. Um-hmm. 46:02 So another testimony is about a man called Elias. 46:06 OK. The man was... he is a chief - 46:10 traditional chief - OK - of a big space and a lot of villages 46:16 together and everybody was afraid of him. 46:18 They cannot go to see him; they cannot talk to him. 46:21 Nobody can argue with him. 46:23 OK. They were afraid and they called him Belial. 46:25 Hmm. And he was a big chief 46:29 and people would: "No, you cannot catch up with him. " 46:32 Even governors... they were afraid of him. 46:34 But one day he got sick... VERY sick. 46:37 And even though he was sick people were afraid to go 46:40 and to see him. OK. 46:42 And one of our Bible workers... Like Nebuchadnezzar? Yeah. 46:44 One of our Bible workers said: "OK, I want to go 46:47 and see that man. " And he prayed and said: 46:49 "God, they call him the lion 46:51 but I don't believe that because the true Lion is Jesus 46:54 and I want to go and talk to him about the Lion of Judah. " 46:58 And he prayed. He went to see that man. 47:00 When he got there and he looked at the door 47:03 they opened the door and he went through and they said: 47:06 "Why are people afraid of him? " 47:08 He said: "My friend, I was praying on my bed 47:12 because I'm about to die. 47:14 I was asking God to send somebody to pray for me. 47:17 I think you are the one. " He said: "Exactly! I am the one. 47:21 I am coming here to pray for you and tell you about the Lion 47:24 of Judah because they call you the lion. " 47:26 And he said: "OK, ask the Lion of Judah to save my life. 47:29 I am sick. 47:31 I have spent a lot of money to the hospital but I am still 47:34 sick. I fear I may die! " 47:36 And the Bible worker told him: "You are not going to die. 47:39 If you believe in Jesus Christ, He will save your life. " 47:42 And the man accepted Jesus Christ. 47:45 They prayed together and after one week he was healed. 47:49 Wow! And when he was healed he came back to us and he said: 47:52 "I want to be baptized. 47:54 And you are to baptize me just like this. 47:57 I want after my baptism to go around the city 48:00 to make announcements to people I've been baptized. " Amen. 48:04 And he did it! Praise God! 48:06 He went all around and he announced that: "I am now 48:09 a free man. I have met with the Lion of Judah. 48:12 I am not a lion any more! " That's right. 48:14 And he came and now after two years 48:17 he became a deacon of the church. Praise God! 48:19 And when he was serving people another chief 48:23 who was under him came. He was invited to the church 48:26 and when he came to the church 48:27 he saw the lion on the door and he said: "I cannot go 48:31 to the church of the lion. " He said: "Don't be afraid. 48:33 Come, come, come... I know you. " 48:35 And he shakes the hand 48:37 and invited him into the church 48:39 and he gave him a seat. He said: "You sit here. " 48:42 He was afraid. Now the guy was afraid in the church 48:45 because the lion was there. 48:47 After the church he came to me. Said: "What happened 48:49 to that man? He's a lion 48:51 and that's my first time to shake his hand 48:53 and he gave me a seat when I came in. " 48:57 "He's a servant of the Lord; he's not a lion any more. " 49:00 He's a different lion. He said: "OK, 49:02 if Jesus did that to the lion who am I? " 49:06 So he decided to give his life to the Lord 49:08 and now that second man went back to the village. 49:12 We gave him a number of Bible guides. Yes. 49:15 Went to the village distributing Bible study guides. 49:18 Guess what? After three weeks 49:23 he came back to us. He said: "Listen, 49:26 I have 150 people who are ready to be baptized. " 49:30 Praise God! It's a miracle. 49:33 The Spirit of the Lord is working. Amazing! 49:35 The Spirit of the Lord is working. 49:36 When Jesus aligns with people that's what happens. 49:40 So we need people to support our ministry out there 49:43 to reach those people. People are afraid of them 49:47 but Jesus can transform their lives. 49:49 I love this. These are powerful testimonies. 49:51 We need to encourage our viewers to be able to support 49:54 your ministry. We're going to put up something that 49:56 will help them to contact you to support what you're doing. 49:59 Maybe there are viewers who are in the medical field. 50:02 Maybe they're nurses; maybe they're doctors; 50:05 maybe they're dentists. Are these the kind of people 50:07 that could actually travel there 50:09 maybe for a couple of weeks? Maybe for a longer time. 50:12 Yeah. Maybe even as missionaries 50:14 and work with you? Is that possible? 50:16 Is that something that you're accepting? 50:18 This is possible. Actually we are organizing 50:20 a mission trip. If you put our website on the screen 50:23 people will see it and go to the website. 50:25 And those who are willing to go 50:28 with us on a mission trip can 50:29 join us. They can send a TEXT 50:32 or e-mail us. OK. 50:33 Whatever the capabilities are 50:38 of our viewers... maybe it's for a short time, 50:40 maybe it's for long term. Whatever it is 50:42 they can contact you through this website. Yes. 50:45 I'm going to put that website up again and again and again 50:48 because I want to encourage our viewers 50:49 you really need to get ahold of this ministry. 50:52 This ministry: God is using it. 50:54 You've heard the testimonies 50:56 how they've given free medical care to people who were sick 51:00 and dying and also how they 51:03 pray for people who are sick and dying 51:04 and those people have recovered. 51:06 That God has blessed them and healed them 51:08 and now they're having an impact on others. 51:10 Amen! And hundreds of people 51:12 are now having Bible studies 51:14 and coming to the Lord and being baptized. 51:16 So this is a powerful ministry. 51:17 God is working through this ministry. Yes! 51:19 We're living in the end of time right now 51:21 and the Holy Spirit is working in a very powerful way 51:24 to bring people to Him... to bring people to God. 51:27 To bring people to an understanding 51:29 of the three angels' messages 51:31 that's going to go to all the world 51:32 and lighten the earth with the glory of God. 51:35 And truly God's character, 51:37 God's glory, has come to 51:40 the ministry that you're doing 51:42 with the people there in the Congo. 51:44 So we want to encourage you: go ahead and contact this 51:47 ministry. Support this ministry with your time, with your money, 51:52 in any way that you can and with your prayers 51:54 because God is going to bless all the efforts that we 51:59 support to bring the gospel to all the world. 52:01 We'll be right back after this short break 52:03 so don't go away. |
Revised 2023-08-08